Infrastructure, Ukraine, Tech, and Lamborghini (Podcast)

I mean a lot of folks leaving like New York City and they're going and the other and the coasts and the high cost, high tax areas and go into places like I don't know, Nashville, Tennessee, Austin, Texas, and the great state of North Carolina has been a beneficiary of that as well, and we want to break that down.

We're gonna do that today. We're fortunate to have here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio Michelle Baker Sanders, North Carolina Secretary of Commerce, and Mike Fox, President and CEO of the Piedmont Triad Partnership. Uh So, Michelle and Mike, thanks so much for joining us here. Michelle talked to us about the state of North Carolina and what you guys have experienced from a commerce perspective, a business perspective

over the last several years. Thank you. Over the last several years, what we have experienced is at UM booming growth and a momentum with some I believe attraction UH bringing an in migration of people, families, and jobs. As you mentioned, UM over the past couple of years, despite the pandemic and UH concerns about a recession and the labor sup wild market, we have broken records when it comes to the number of job creation creation created and

the capital investment into the state. UM. I'd specifically her at highlight the Carolina Core, which we're gonna hopefully talk about. So the Carolina Core UM is a region of North Carolina Central Region which is anchored by UM high Point

Winston Salem and then with Greensboro. And within that region they have seen UM extraordinary success, especially in the e V space and semiconductor space, all the advancing technology and advanced manufacturing and so over the past year or so, they have UM attracted over fifteen billion dollars billion dollars in capital investment and as a result of that created UM sixteen thousand jobs, and so, as you just mentioned, people are looking for a great place to live, a

great place to start business, and a place where they can thrive. And that's what we have found in North Carolina. And the example I'm highlighting the Carolina Core is definitely a place that it's experienced in that you have and you have a lot of experience manufacturing as well. Right, you come from Biogen, You were working at a number of different manufacturers, global manufacturers before this UM and we're just appointed Secretary Commerce kind of smack dab in the

middle of the pandemic right February. Has that driven you think, more manufacts acturers as we kind of unwind these global supply chains or at least try and produce more locally. Has that driven a migration to your state? Um? I

believe that that might. The migration that we experience and has been building over a number of years because of many visionaries across the state and the great investments that have been made by the state as well as other partners across the state like the university, community college system and business owners in the state. UM, you're correct. I spent about thirty years in the biotech life science industry. So I connect deeply with manufacturing, and as you know,

that's a core competency for North Carolina. We have the largest manufacturing UH talent pool in the southeastern US, and advanced manufacturing, which I missioned earlier UM has been UM something that we have leveraged and built on that strength. We're continuing to see it grow and we're expecting to and anticipate in even more growth an advanced manufacturing. So, Mike, you're the CEO of the Piedmont Triad Partnership. When I think of the Piedmont Tried, I think Winston, Salem, Burlington

and all those kinds of stuff. I think, you know, making furniture, textiles and things like that. How was that part of the state kind of tobacco of course, how is that part of the state kind of evolved over the last decade or so, so we've really made a great transition to advanced manufacturing. We have a history of manufacturing in that area, particularly with the textiles and the furniture, and we've seen those industries shrink or go off shore.

That's sad because it's some of the greatest furniture you can buy. It's still is some of the best furniture you can source in the country. And we still have a thriving furniture industry. The world's largest furniture market is in High Point twice a year every year. So what we've seen is more niche manufacturing there. Uh. At the same with textiles, those have moved to more medical specialty garments, not just the commodities. But this advanced manufacturing has really

taken hold. We You've had the foresight to develop some large sites to attract large transformational projects like Toyota, then fast Wolf Speed and Boom Supersonic at our airport. And so we started we were sitting you know, a year ago literally with four legitimate mega sites, you know, with a lot of interest but no tenants. And within the space of a year we've had four large announcements of tenants that the Secretary mentioned that total those fifteen billion

investment and you know, approximately twenty thousand new jobs. What's driven I mean, secretary points out this has been developing for years and we I think Paul and I both have seen North Carolina really develop UM. But the pandemic coupled with you know, the money UM that was pushed into the economy and the Chips Act have to be

huge drivers. They are, and you know, quite simply, I think one of the answers is the rest of the world is realizing what we've known for a long time that North Carolina is a great place to live, to work, to play. It's also got an incredible business climate. Thanks to Secretary Sanders, Governor Cooper, and our legislature, we have very favorable uh, you know, business laws and and a tax situation. But primarily to your point, with the pandemic,

I think reshoring has become a lot more of a focus. Uh. The supply chain dynamics going from just in time to just in case have become important, and I think manufacturers want to be able to have their supply chain closer to them and not worry about is it sitting on a container somewhere in the Pacific Ocean exactly. And so Secretary representing the state of North Carolina, when you are courting business, when you're saying to a you know, a Toyota or so many, you need to really think about

coming to our state. Who do you find yourself competing against? Most often we find ourselves competing against, uh, the global market. Um, there are certain states I'm sure that companies tend to have an attraction to but we are competing against the

global markets. So that's why it's so important for us did not only highlight our assets such as the university of the community college system, the quality of life UM, the cost of doing business in North Carolina UM, as well as UM the talent pool, the diverse and skilled

talent pool. It's important for us to highlight those assets, but it's also important for UH those companies to experience North Carolina, to visit us and experience the people, the culture, UM, you know, experience what their employees with experience when they come to North Carolina. And so that's what we UM enjoy and and like to show and give that experience. UM. We also, you know, we're courting companies to come to

North Carolina and businesses. But I believe what's unique is that we are with those kind companies not only in that initial period, that courtship period. Once we marry, once we bring them to North Carolina, we are intend and we work with them and partner with them throughout the longevity of their business. Talk to us about infrastructure in the state. For example, when I was a duke, the Raleig Durham Airport was like a grass grass strip. Now

it's this huge airport modern I mean is that? I mean it seems like the infrastructure in the state is getting better and better and better. How much of the requirement is that when you're talking to against some of these big corporations. North Carolina has invested deeply in infrastructure and because of that we have been successful, as we've discussed, with economic development and building more resilient communities across the state UM, and the airports are surely a part of

that UM. You know, within the Carolina core, we have access to airports in the areas you know Charlotte Greensboro has airport ore I do you UM. We also have ports that are part of our transportation infrastructure, and we invest heavily in communities to to build a sewer and

water systems that are required to support these businesses. As you know, UM for semiconductor industry and advanced manufacturing utilities, the cost of energy, the cost of doing business matters and it's very important and so within North Carolina we prioritize that UM to attract and to retain and help businesses grow for those for those people who haven't spent much time in North Carolina. Let's define the core or

the Piedmont Triad. What exactly is that. So it's roughly add twenty miles stretch that runs from Greensboro, Winston Salem and high Point, which is traditionally known as the Triad down up in the north, down to Fayetteville and kind of the southeast, and it follows roughly Highway for twenty one, which has recently received designation as a future industry that would connect the Triad and points west all the way

to uh Wilkesboro and potentially Boon down to Fayettville. And of course Fayetteville is the nation the home of the nation's largest military base in Fort Bragg. And those retiring service members who regularly you know, decide they want to stay in North Carolina, those are a great source of talent for our employers, and so being able to have that connection to that area, to the Triad and also to Charlotte and Raleigh is important for us in terms

of developing our workforce. See I think of North Carolina just been a student there. I got the eastern part, which is kind of the beach. Are close to the beach, then the west is amazing mountains Asheville, North Carolina, one of my favorite places to go exactly. The music scene, the culture of the arts amazing there. And then you got everything in the middle, which I call the middle, but now you guys call the cord and all that kind of stuff. But that's kind of where a lot

of development is taking place. Real quick, Secretary urtp Research Triangle Park that's been there for decades generations, is that's still a for technology restarts Triangle part is still a thing for technology in North Carolina. Al Right, that's good stuff because I think of North Carolina State, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Boo and Duke University. Um, you put those two and plus you got Wake Farcet close by. It's that's kind of been the source of research, tronical parks,

I think stuff. So it's just been awesome, so good to talk about it. We had some Chicago pm MY data came in a little bit weaker today, but it just goes to show kind of where some of the Chicago Chicago very far away from Charlotte exactly. So good

North Carolina discussion here. Michelle Baker Sanders, North Carolina Secretary of Commerce and Mike Fox, president CEO of Pete Montrey, is there by the way, a rivalry with South Carolina at all, because I always think of Spartanburg being a gear head, you know, uh, the BMW plant down there is there is a little bit of we compete with South Carolina and um so they're a part of the

Southeastern family. But let's be clear, we do compete. Yeah, that's what I was wondering about their their sec these North Carolina's acc all right, I want to switch gears because we had a trade that happened in m and A trade over the last couple of days. I got my attention because A it's involves banks, uh and be it's M and A and I like M and A fees. So I'm gonna get Paul Goldberg in here. Paul's the senior equity research channels with Boomberg Intelligence. He covers the

banks talk to us about this deal. Bank of Canada is buying h species Canadian unit. So the biggest investment bank in Canada is getting even bigger. Yeah, thank you for having me, Paul. This is absolutely correct. RBC is the largest bank in Canada in cross retail in many cases across business landing, so you look at different categories, they have in some cases more than that of the market.

So they are buying the number seven bank. And this is an extremely unique opportunity in Canada because most of the Canadian loans and deposits have basically distributed between the six banks. So, and we were just hearing about higher, stronger net interest margins um in terms of some US banks, I assume the situation is the same there. Right as we see rates pick up around the world, banks start to recover those margins. It's actually very interesting and very similar,

but it's shifting already in the US and Canada. RBC actually reported their fourth quarter earliest this morning, so the rates momentum was running out. It's been very strong for them. They probably still going to see another ten fifteen basis points in the first half in terms of net interest margin expansion, but that will slow down throughout the year and a lot of the banks are starting to hedge for slowdown and interesting already already. Well. RBC was a

case in point this morning. They owned City National Bank in the US, so they're heading out both the US and Canada. They not They're not position into rates, turning over and go next going the addit direction. But they are trying to hedge out that upside, not negative, hopefully never negative again, well not negative. But I hear you, I hear instead of jacking up seventy five or fifty basis points and meeting, at some point, they're gonna start

to cut. And even Gina Martin Adams, I think we were just hearing from critious think thinks the next year we'll see fifty basis points of cuts. That'd be nice. That's got to be good for the markets. My bullish call, I mean, hopefully they get some build up, some dry powder before that, right exactly? Yeah, alright, So Paul, we got you know, Royal Bank of Canada, quality quality player, doubling down on investment banking. They're in Canada. What's their

bullish call on Canada? Do you think we're If I'm in a banker, how do how do I make money in Canada over the next five years? Well, it's kinda there's a closed ecosystem right in terms of the banking. They're only a handful of banks. They're fifty banks in total in Canada, okay, uh, and six of them essentially around the market. So whatever the banks can do and whenever they can get their hands and they expending the market here in that very unique asset, they do it.

So why why does the Hong Kong Shanghai Banking Corporation want to sell? Well, I will defer to our European analysts who cover it, but I will mention that they did no, no no, no, But they will mention that that they did have came down to their lower end of the capitol range where they wanted to be, and that transaction what John Tye said in this note added about a hundred thirty basis points of c to one capital. So that puts them in a very good position in

terms of capital potentially by bags. All right, talk to us about the Canadian residential housing market. That's different there than it is here. It's a bigger part of the you know, a consumer's total net worth than it is. Well, and it was on fire for a while, right. I don't know what are the banks saying about the real estate market up there. It's slowing down very dramatically. It's not just the band what the banks they're saying. We've

seen that in the numbers. Uh, But RBC, for example, just this morning they see and it's still growing in the mid single digits. Not the prices, not the sales, but the mortgage loans because people still need to refinance. Can this slightly different market. They don't have the thirty year mortgages. The mortgages refinance every five years, so there's a lot of turnover. That's right, That's what I was thinking about. Yeah, they have much more interest rate risk

than we. They have more interest rate risk, but that a lot of the interest rate risk on the customer, not on the not on the bank cooking refinance. All right, good stuff, Paul Goldberg, He covers a lot of the banking stuff, including Canada for Bloomberg intell just just want to get the latest on what was a pretty big m and a trade up in kinda Royal Bank of Canada acquiring HSPCs Canadian unit, doubling down on their investment banking.

Lamborghini is unveiling its latest twoundred seventy thousand dollars supercar that apparently is ready to take drivers off the highway and onto the dirts. We welcome now are Bloomberg Televi an audience, our radio and listeners because we're joined by Stephan Winkelman, he is the Lamborghini CEO and chair joining us as well a very excited Bloomberg's Matt Miller um Stefan, thank you very very much, indeed your time. Why are

you taking Lamborghini off road? Can Serrato is our last internal combustion engine car only, so it's the last launch we are going to do with a car like this. And I think that the Lamborghini always was easy and wars and expected unexpected. It will continue to be so. So I think to have an old in car is something which is incredible and it's really fun to drive, and it's very much sticking to our DNA and all. We have a permanent bob we drive system on this car.

There's more ground clearance, so it's very easy to drive on the on the normal roads, on the race sick, but also of on on gravel road. So it's fun, it's performing, but it's also a life cycle for the for big sit. Stephen Guy was asking me yesterday like why would I need an off road Lamborghini um and I pointed out that we have, you know, six to eight inch potholes in the major highways around New York City.

That's the same in all of the major cities around well in Europe at least, and here in the US. Is that part of the draw, like if I'm driving at a Venta door um I drove on recently around Barcelona and it's kind of terrifying with such low ground clearance. Is that part of the draw of one of these lifted Lambos. But I think we always tried to do something which is new and which was never there before, and already years back we were looking into an opportunity

to do it. Seems it seemed very difficult to achieve. But then when I came back to Lamborghini a couple of years ago, we refocused on it and we made it. And for sure it's a car which is very much fitting into our environment because the situation of the infrastructure, as you said, no in Europe, but also yeah, in the US, is not the best one when it comes to to the to the to the streets, so it's very easy to drive, also with the roads which are

not in the best condition. Definitely strikes me that Folkswagen may have brought you back to Lamborghini, not just because you know the business and you're a great operator. But because they may want an I p O the brand, they just did it very successfully with Porsche, even in a tough market. Have you prepared Lambeau for an IPL No, there's nothing which we are doing to prepare an IPO, So this is not on our agenda timing. Okay, okay,

But but your margins, Stefan are looking phenomenal. You've got margins that the bit margins that are better than Ferraris right now. I'm assuming that the new car as well will only improve those margins. Are these martins as high as they are because you you are sending this message that this is a business that people would want to buy.

But I think that what we're doing is to work on the product, to work on the brand, to do the best we can with all the opportunities we have on our base models and all the events and or the hula can and the urdles to create very rates and the brand is very young and fresh. So it's also inviting us to to attempt new territories and to launch things like the Serato and the results are very positive, not only in the United States but all over the world.

And we're always selling more cars so far then we are able to produce and this is creating already an order bank which is exceeding creating months, and this is very positive. Also looking into the future, which is going to be hybrid from twenty onwards and which will be then concluded by the end of four So we now have the Starato, we also have the the nine eleven Tacca, and I understand there has been some cooperation conversations between you and Posta as as these cars have evolved. How

close is that relationship right now, Stefan. We are big groups, so when we speak, when the brands come together, for sure there are there is a clear positioning of the different brands and of the cars. But everybody is proud on doing his own product and he's trying to do and to create the best out of what he has in his doors. And I think that this is very good.

Then they set out towards just approved on how how much our engineers and also our marketing people in the in general, our people in the Stageta Bolognese are passionate about what we're doing. Stephan. I'm lucky enough to bend the Santa Aguta a few times. I've senior production facilities, recommend everyone who gets a chance goes and tours the factory. How much is that going to change when you go to hybridization or electric cars. Are you going to have

a new infrastructure footprint? For sure? We are in fact now we are the super sports car factory with the Hohoda Can and the event of follower is now changing a lot. We are building a new assembly line which when the new Hooda Can is a hybrid is coming at the end of four will not be too as it today, but there will be then one line which is being able to produce both of the super sports guys.

So we're doing a lot. It's not only about the product and let's say the marketing, but it's also a lot about what we're doing our factory and how we work also without supplies, also changing all the people with the new types of a job descriptions, a different intelligence, and all the things which are going around the hybridization, electification with battery technology. So when you get I mean

massive margins, everybody loves these limited edition vehicles. Are you planning on producing more of those before you change the production facilities? But you know by the beginning of next year. Actually we will have a last incredible surprise on the B twelve engine. Only there will be a very nice announcement which I will not anticipate too much, but in generally will do a big announcement about a single car

which is going to be phenomenal. And this system still based on our actual bat Wealth engine and we're very proud to talk about this when we are doing the announcement. And again in order, can you can you reserve one for me back for the next one. You know, we have a queue. We have a lot of our customers which are applying to create and we're together with us one off, but they stakes years and we are doing these things only once in a while. Matt's one off

as well. I think he should definitely go to the top of the queue. Stepan come back in January. We'll look forward to hearing about the new car. Thank you very much, indeed for your time today. You get it right to our next guest. James Stravitis retired admiral with the US Navy, having served thirty seven years. He served as a fifteenth Commander in US European Command and it's also Natives sixteen Supreme Allied commander in Europe is also

a published author. His latest book is entitled twenty thirty four, a Novel of the Next World World Adam, thank you so much for joining us here. I'd love to just get your latest thinking on Ukraine. Where could this go in the coming days? Weeks? And dare say months? Yeah, unfortunately, I think it will be months, but I don't think it's going to be years. Um, let's put it this way. At the moment, it's a tale of two wars. One is being fought on the ground. The Ukrainians are winning

that one. They're pushing the Russians back. I like their chances in ground warfare. The other war tail the two wars. The other one is an air war, which Putin is winning. He is has a much bigger air force. The Ukrainians don't have sufficient air defense to really knock it down, and therefore Putin is going after the electric grid, He's going to after water supplies. He's really committing war crimes going after the civilian population. So he's winning in the air.

Bottom line, if the US NATO to west, if we help the Ukrainians close their skies, giving them surface to air missiles. Patriot battery combat aircraft are under discussion. If we take those kind of steps, take the air war away from Putin, I think that pushes us toward a negotiation simply because Putin begins to run out and runway here, and I think that probably happens to put it all together, Matt and Paul, that probably happens in the late winter early spring of next year. Watch for this to go

to a negotiation at that point. Wow. So, by the way, what is there to negotiate? I mean, the Ukrainians have said they will accept nothing less than the complete um pull out of Russia from all Ukrainian lands and territories. Yeah, we're on a business network here, and whenever you start a negotiation, uh, in business and or and love, you start with a maximum list position. I'd say that's what

the Ukrainians correctly are conveying. At some point. Realistically, it's going to be very difficult for the Ukrainians to completely expel the Russia armed forces. That is why you have a negotiates And I would say our job in the West is to give the Ukrainians the tools to go to the negotiating cable and the strongest possible position admiral. Whose decision do you think ultimately will be to UH? I guess build up the air defenses the air forces

of Ukraine like you suggest. Is this primarily a U S decision or this to be a broader NATO decision the latter And we just saw the NATO foreign ministers get together um in Europe, to include our own Secretary of State Tony B. Lincoln. They're backed up by the ministers of defense, are Secretary of Defense General Lloyd to Austin And those conversations are live, They're real. You're certainly

going to see additional air defense flowing into Ukraine. The question that was under discussion continues to be as whether the Ukrainians should be provided combat aircraft, either MID twenty nine from Poland or F sixteen from the United States. I think we will probably end up providing those sometime in the months ahead. Is I mean, can you count on this administration to be there? Um for Ukraine? Can you count Washington to be there? It's not just in

the hands of the president. Of course, now that the Republicans, a lot of whom do not want to continue um supplying Ukraine with money or supplies. UM. I think that there remains very strong bipartisan support. Certainly, you hear some cracking noises on the far right, and you hear some cracking noises on the far left. And I think that on this one the center will hold UM and you're going to continue to see, particularly on the Senate side.

But I think even in the House, UM, I don't feel there's a ground swell that completely cut off E to Ukraine. That would be disastrous economically, it would be disastrous militarily and diplomatically go forward, it would send many wrong signals. I don't see that happening. I think Washington broadly will hold together. Might be some dimmusion of support,

but I think that support broadly will continue. Admiral, how do you game out the putin risk if you will, that perhaps he does something you know, really unusual, unwise and it just really escalates this thing. I think that's a possibility, UM, and I would categorize it as the cards he's playing now cutting off hydrocarbons to Western Europe, hoping to crack their resolved. That will play out through the winter and this air campaign, this kind of carpet

bombing of the infrastructure. He's gonna wait to see how those two cards play out. If neither of those produced for him the intended result, then he might reach for something more dramatic at the really dark end of the spectrum. He could consider the use of the tactical nuclear weapon. I think that's highly unlike he knows. It would cause a massive im media shift in global attitudes toward Russia.

It would move that swing boat of India and Nigeria, South Africa, Brazil, those countries that are kind of in the middle on this. I don't think he goes there. That's why I think he starts to run out of options once these two cards I just mentioned get played. Um. I think that's why it's unlikely he'll be able to suddenly hit the script admire. On another note, you know I'm a huge fan of because I tell you pretty much every time you come on great book, and I've

gotta ask when the next one is coming? Are you working on another novel? We are, and um I co wrote and novel of the Next World War with Elliott Ackerman, combat marine veteran. The next book is set entitled four and it's about artificial intelligence, cyber and challenges here domestically in the United States, civil disagreements in the United States come together mid century. That's like four. This novel is a work of cautionary fiction. We need to be careful

as we move forward in these decades. Well, and it's kind of scary how prescient four already looks it does, and I hope it remains fictional exactly. All right, Admiral, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Admiral James Trevites, retired U S. Navy, sixteenth Supreme Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, giving us his latest thoughts. Let's talk some technology, uh, and because that's always fun to talk about and things are always moving there. And to do that, we bring

in on a Rock Rana. He's a senior technology annalys for Bloomberg Intelligence. He joins us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. And let's just start with Apple, but I want to get to a couple of other names. I see workdays of stock that's just ripping today. We'll get to that in Apple Strike. Are they going to to talk us about the supply chain and their ability to deliver iPhones? And how long is this gonna be

an issue for my friends and Apple. Oh, it's going to be an issue till they let the factories open, and I think that is a bigger issue for everybody. Now, all the iPhones are not made in that region or in that factory. It's only the iPhone fourteen Pro model, which is the more expensive model and which is in really high demand. That this is the most important model. Yes, so so Apple, one of the biggest and most important companies in the world, makes basically all of its main

iPhone models in one place in China. No, no, that's only the iPhone Pro model, the other iPhone normal models, others that one. Right, it's no prof you're gonna spend seven in for a grant. No, No, they they do by the other ones as well. This is only a small portion of it, but it makes a difference to in terms of mathematically you're gonna lose a few billion dollars because of it in the upcoming quarter. But the you know, we have two very strong analysts in Asia

and they explained it to me. It's a listen. January fab is a very slow month in production. They're gonna make up for that at that time and for the year it's going to be okay. So which means, you know, sales are gonna get pushed out from the December quarter to the Jim quarter jan Fab quarter. It's not a big deal. And other vendors, they have a lot of other vendors, and they've already asked them to to you know, start preparing for making those phones going out in the

first quarters. So hopefully they asked them like five years ago. Now again, these things do take time. So you you know, if something happened ten days ago, you just can't you know, start making it in you know, somebody's basement. It's it's not that the same. So, but something happened, remember Donald Trump. No, I mean we've been at odds with China for a while. Now. You think that they would say, hey, let's move around

the supply chain. Here. They are moving around it. They have plants and you know in assembly areas in India and other areas. But again, think about it, that's something that took twenty years to build. You just can't untravel it and in a couple of years. It just takes time. And I think investors don't understand that. Fit uh, And

it'll be fine. I think over the long run, they will diversify I think it from a from a you say, being conscious about this is a very good thing for them, and I think they will open areas outside the offside China is button, all right, You've been talking to us about this cloud thing for years and years and years, and here's another one work day. Wait a second, we're gonna move off Apple? Yeah? I hang on a second.

Why because they are set up for stockstassive showdown. Okay, the stock may not be moving now, but Tim Cook is in Washington today why to meet with incoming Republicans Because they are gaining a lot of power in Washington and they're gonna be They're gonna be on team Elon, Right, whose side do you want to be on? I don't. I'm not taking a side, but I'm gonna say. Elon Musk is now accusing Apple of uh advertising and of

cracking down on free speech. Essentially, this is kind of a Republican rally and cry because he wants to get out of their app store ecosystem and not pay the thirty gate fee. So how is that going to be set up? It's again, this is for the courts to decide, so it's very difficult, but you know, our generally who's are expert in this area and says listen, you know Apple, Epic Games, make it a case against Apple, and in the end they lost. I mean at the end of that,

that's already done. It's already been done. So he can make a little bit cry that's okay, let him cry, it's fine. So but our Apple investors are you talked about they concerned about a showdown between Elon Musk and Apple. You know, let it be because at the end of the day that the court has already decided that's a fair fee for placing your product on the app store. And I think the bigger question is going to be is he going to open it and make it a

lot more you know, crazy? And will it have content that apps on Twitter now, yeah, can't tolerate well, has thematic tweets from very popular people. App app store has certain rules and it could be multiple areas. This is just one topic that a topic talking about and if the if Twitter you know, breaks that, it will say you can't be on the platform. It's a very simple thing. Now, the rules out for everybody. It's not specifically for Twitter.

Those rules are there for any other app store or anybody who's building an application and they decided to go break out of it, then they you know, that's that's a problem for them, all right, So Matt wants to stay on this story, so we'll stay on this story. We've seen the tweets from Elon. Okay, have we seen any response from Apple? I don't know. I just think he said Happy Thanksgiving like a few days ago. That was like that. That's all I can remember. So they're

not going to be going back and forth. I guess Elon Musk's had tweeted a meme where, um, there's a highway with the fork in the road right one one one direction is pay gate fee to get into apple eCos system, and one side is go to war with Apple, and Elon must chooses go to war with Apple. Yeah, I think this could be I think you're pretty sanguine. I think this could be a bit more than a ripple. Yeah.

But the thing is that, I mean, frankly, you know, he can go make a phone and then figure it out his his company makes what eight ten billion in free cash flow? Apple makes hundred billion. Let's see how that how that shows up? Okay, Okay, well, well we'll watch this space because I think you could see a Republican Congress start to act on this try and crack

down more on Apple. We've already seen even Democrats like Elizabeth Warren have already commented today that they want to uh that they want to crack down on this monopoly. They have a problem with the app stare. Everybody wants to crack down on big tech. But at the end of the day, quotes to you know matter all right, good stuff will pay attention. And plus there's the isn't there an aroid android thing out there too? What were you talking about? World calm or something? What was the stocky?

It's a forty billion dollar market kept stock ups. The main of my existence work day is yeah, exactly all right. I don't know Ron. It covers all things technology for Bloomberg Intelligence. He graced us with his presence here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokeer Studio. We appreciate that. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple podcasts or whatever podcast platform

you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller on Fall Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio