India, Rates, and Markets

at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. You know, one of the stories that I've been hearing more and more about over last year or so is you know, as China turns more inward, if you will, and they continue to deal with COVID zero, however they're going to proceed from here. Maybe one of the best growth emerging markets out there is India. Uh And that's kind of what I've been hearing more and more. And it's a rural opportunity. It's always been a growth story, but maybe even a little

bit better here. Josina Krishnan joins US. Managing partner at l of Our Equity UM joins us from India. Joson, I thanks so much for joining us here. I'd love to get a sense of what you folks at l of Our Equity are doing. How are your approaching India these days? Thanks for having me on the show. And it's music to my years and the recognition for India as a market and it's really emerging these days. Uh Elva has a unique personality type, if I may call it.

So we're a cross breed between venture capital and private equity. We typically form a highly concentrated portfolio by a venture standards, we have very low lost ratios and yet we go on right at the beginning at early stages, very often being the first and suitial capital. And part of the reason is that we have a very strong thesis around the end market as to what the customers are willing to buy UM in the sense that the product market fit is known to us before we make an investment,

even at that early stage. So callus p P callers. We see which our way. So where do you see the most opportunity for growth in India? I mean, is it UM in manufacturing products for export or is there a domestic opportunity there? What? What's front and center? So our thesis is fairly unique in the sense we're not sectoral and how we think about it, but we have customer centric which means we underwrite the wallet of an end massive market population which is maybe about half a

billion people um. These are people who are aspiring for quality and growth and have not yet been addressed by large scale corporate entities. What is fascinated about this customer segment is that the non linear growth potential comes from intergenerational growth ambitions in the sense previous generations in these markets have probably figured out survival, but the current generation is aspirational for a better quality life. They're focused on quality,

they want better lives for themselves and their children. And it triggers a very interesting twin fly wheel effect in the sense that businesses start growing because their customers start growing, and that's fascinating to watch. So we we see very clear and fascinating trends across sectors because of this customer dynamic. So give us, Josina, maybe some in examples of some types of deals that you've invested in. You know, it give us a sense of kind of how you think

about your market. Yeah, so if you if you think about the foundation that was laid by let's say micro finance in these markets, you see this customer now getting aspirational in terms of the quality of financial services product. They're ready for more sophisticated products based on business loans, based on underwriting, the robustness of cash flows so working capital needs, asset backed lending. All of those are emerging trends within financial services for a market that banks did

not address all these years. Uh. There are two three other trends which I find fascinating. For example, the investment mindset in this market. They're looking to upgrade the quality of life and are often willing to pay interesting sums of amount to see that shift. So they're willing to invest in small businesses that are launched at their end, so you can work with them on a lot of

these opportunities. And small business services, for example, those that take shopify down another segment to and even smaller business would be fascinating themes you're looking at um. Similarly, you look at the affinity to course solutions as against just products are transactions. And just to take an example there, if you think about courting classes, that's still a single product. But if you look at in the entire case world of education that gives the child better chances of employability,

that's a core solution. Right. Think about farmer information services, that's the transactional service where you think about market linkages and working capital solutions bundled together. That's a core solution. Tele consultation tele medicine is transactional, but a full stack primary healthcare solution is a core solution. And the minute you see this market gravitating towards core solutions, you know

that you have them. For the long run, your cost of acquisition is lower, the customers tend to grow their business with you, and you end up having a loyal, growing, massive customer base. Can you tell us about just give us a sense of kind of how Indian affair through the pandemic, Where are you now? How did that maybe impact your business and some of the clients you you deal with. Yeah, that's a very interesting question, to be honest.

The first couple of months of the pandemic, we were like, God knows how this segment is going to come out, because the external perception at some level is that it's a vulnerable segment. However, our thesis, of course, over the last fifteen years of investing has been that there's a lot of resilience, And in a way, I'm kind of happy the last two or three years panned out because everybody is now seen that this market is super resilient.

The companies that were lending did have to provide somewhat or initially, but that happened across the board globally. But what we saw interestingly was that the end market was very nimble in terms of adjusting. In fact, small businesses in India did not really necessarily get wait for any major subsidies or or support. They tend to innovate and and trans asition into business models very very quickly in

emerging markets. In fact, we saw this both across India and Latin America, and they came out beautifully at the end of it, so that nimbleness makes them very resilient. Likewise, for education, we saw a massive shift towards digital solutions, both in healthcare and education, and that adoption definitely did

speed up through the pandemic. But again, extremely smart purchasing decisions made by this market in a way that they managed cash flows well through the pandemic and switched back into growth and investment more the minute they could come out of it. In some sense, I see this market is far more resilient than some of the larger or or higher income customer segments that do business. I mean

it's just been phenomenal watching the resilience grow. The one pieces that I think the world of capital probably took a little longer to recognize this resilience, So some of these businesses did take longer to raise funds. But it's great to see that that the core dn of these companies as such that they weren't really as subject to the liquidity ebbs and flows. Uh. They were building core, core,

profitable businesses. Um. It's it's perfectly fine for some of our companies to raise money a year later than what was planned and they still managed to generate capitals through customer revenues. And that's been great alright, great stuff. Really appreciate getting your perspective. Their Drutson A. Krishnan, managing partner l of our Equity. They are based in India, investing in India. Our Jersey covers all the rate stuff for

Bloomberg Intelligence. He's in studio here, but as we all know, he is a soccer guru here in the US and Jonathan Tyson in studio he's usually based in London. He covers all the European banks force, but he's here in studio. And we were just lamenting the England side and lost to France. But let's start it off. And by the way, we should say we do have a deep dive into

soccer slash football later on in the program. Am we do? Yeah, because we have Darren fantastic and nature of Van Tassel, the owners of the South Georgia torment to FC, and maybe maybe maybe I can come back for that. We'll see. I mean he's in the office. I mean that's in and of itself as a wonderful thing. Yeah, it's only a second time I've ever seen him in real life, and I've been working for twenty three years. I know it's this whole thing. I don't get it, but that's

what the kids are doing these days. All right, your Feller Reserve meeting Wednesday. What are we going to hear? What are you looking for? Yeah? So, so it's gonna be a fifty basis point hike. I think the reaction function and what Powell says during the post meeting press conference is going to be hyper important because will they if they see reasonably high inflation print and inflation doesn't

come down as quickly as they want in January? Will they then go fifty basis points again in February, and I think that that's that's currently the question that is in the minds of a lot of market participants. And we're priced fifty fifty basically right now for that eventuality. So um, we do get new dots, we do get a new summary of economic projections. You know, where where does where do FED members see inflation going next year?

That's going to be another big focus right at two o'clock when we get the when we get so right now we're at four percent is the upper bound? Right? They're gonna bring it to four fifty on Wednesday, and then the next meeting is February, February one, and it's likely, I know that the pricing is split, but isn't the the mood kind of an expectation of another fifty basis point hike while they can get it in Yeah, I

think so. And we do think that they're going to probably go to five and a quarter in the upper bound, So you know, even though they're that's your terminal rate expectations. So after February, the next meeting will be only twenty five basis points in March and then and then they're going to be completely in March see at some point, at some point, they were going to always have to downshift because they want to kind of tweak where that

terminal rate is and basically calibrate their their upper bound. Right, So could they go to five and a quarter for example, Yes, that's where we think they're going. Could they go to five and al f in May if inflation still is pretty high? Yes, but that gives them more optionality to hike more if they're at twenty five bas point increments instead of fifty. All right, Johnason Tyson, we've got you in studio here, a rare event, almost as rare as

having Ivy here. Well, but in Jonathan's defense, that's because he lives in England. Okay, alright, I got it. Yeah, John Tyson is one of the top banks analysts in the city of London, been doing it for decades. So we got interest rates rising, Jonathan, what does that mean for the European banks that you follow? H right, Um, well, we've already seen an awful of the upgrades, no income upgrades,

margin upgrades. Take Lloyds, for example, it's going to make an extra two billion top line next year purely because the banks grades grades. But I think if you think about Europe in the US, it's quite clear that it has been aggressive. If you're the ECB, you don't have a straightforward decision to make because you've still got to think Italy. We all remember two thousand, twelve thirteen sovereign crisis,

all of that. So while a lot of commentators would think in Europe behind the curve, you do have to understand that we have a very big Italian bank system that is still not that strong. Still well, I mean Mounti Passes, they just had another capital raised after twenty years of troubles. Um, And yes, the spreads have come back between Italy and Germany. But the e CP is very very aware that, yes, we could inflation, but we do not want to kick start some form of a

sovereign fragmentation, which is what kicked off into Well. Well, you know, if the healthy banks are making more and more money with higher rates, are they going to be able to do a little m and a and maybe take out Amani Pasky. I mean they probably nobody wants that bank. But um, are we going to see cross finally see cross border m and a that the CEO

is back. You know, over the past few years, I have said no, we can't do because of zero intrograte policy and because um the um EU rules aren't yet finished. In that regard that the rules are very big part of it. Um. If you look at b MP, they're selling the US business. They've got seven billions to reinvest next year. But even they have said we're not going to do a big we don't need to do a

big deal. So we're two or three years away from a big cross border deal still because you've got liquidity concerns, it's not straightforward, and captors capital is strong. But we're now you're heading into a recession and we know that bad debts are going back up. So again you normally buy a smaller bank. How can you price a smaller bank when you're not quite sure what the environment looks like? How can What are the banks saying the European banks, Charnathan,

what are they saying about a recession in Europe? I mean, plus you've got the added issue of the war in Ukraine. So what are the big European banks saying about the

next twelve months? Actually very sanguine. I mean, we we saw them all over provision for COVID, so most of the banks have still got a pretty decent cushion that they're running down a couple, haven't um And because of all of this sort of it's four and a half trillion access liquidity, you've got retail deposits, you've got corporate deposits. The starting position for the man on the street is a lot better than it was. So they're still pretty sanguine and they've got a lot of room to play with.

I I think your Federal Reserve should pause. I think they've been raising rates like crazy. Okay, Jonathan's European banks of benefiting, the US banks are benefiting. But you know we're going to get a CPI print tomorrow that's showing that, Yeah, not only is inflation peak, but it's coming down consistently. Why don't they pause? I might not considerably. I'm consistently right that the problem is we're just not seeing inflation

reduced at the speed we thought it would be. Yeah, so let's say it comes to where the markets pricing it around seven point two percent. I think the consensus on the Bloomberg terminals telling me seven point three percent year on year CPI UM, So it's that's still relatively high, but but your point, Paul, you know, the month on month prints are much much lower than they were, right.

So a lot of this is base effects and the fact that we had very high inflation early in the year UM, because at this point the FED promised that they were going higher right going to five. Powell even said, you know, even when he was dovish a couple of weeks ago at the Brookins Institution, he said, you know, we're going to be higher than last UM summary of economic projections was so, which was four and you know four sixty five. Basically, so if they're gonna be higher

than that, they want to deliver on that promise. And and you know that the FED doesn't want to under deliver, particularly when inflation is such a problem in such a high priority globally. And if US inflation comes down, that probably will feed into other markets, that will feed into Europe, that will feed into the UK, that will feed into Japan. UM. So you know, we do want to get UM kind of demand and UM supply balance back into back into some semblance of normalcy. And the only way to do

that really is too slow US demand. That the problem I think with US inflation in particular is that it's a lot of it's in the service sector, which isn't directly impacted as much by UM by interest rates because you don't you know, you don't buy you don't go into McDonald's and buy a big mac on credit usually. Well, and even if it is UM, isn't the lag like three to five quarters that policy lag. I mean, it was funny to hear you say they want to cow

celebrate something. I mean they're working with a sledge hammer. Um. So this is not the kind of delicate scalpel work that um you would hope that monetary policy is. Yeah. So so generally speaking, monetary policy takes between six and eighteen months to flow through, so we're only starting to see the effects right now. Alright, great stuff, Iver Jersey, Bloomberg Intelligence rate analysts here in our Bloomberg and Actors broker studio and a rare treat. Jonathan Tyson, he covers

European banks for Bloomberg Intelligence. He's based in London, So if you're ever in London, go to look up Jonathan Tyson. Bia pint. Megan Horneman, chief investment officer at Verden's Capital, joins us here. Megan, I'm gonna just you know, I've been telling Matt two, I'm done with It's it's so over. I'm looking at three. What's your outlook? What are you telling your clients? What are you penning in your year

head kind of letter. But I think that we've seen a lot of the equity damage and and even the fixed income damage, but we're just starting to see the economic damage from whether it's the um you know, slow down in the economic growth or the tightening of the said policy. We're just starting to see that. So unfortunately, going into next year, uh, there's gonna be a lot of the same. When it comes to the economic situation. The economy is going to be weaker, Um, it's going

to be quite volatile. We think the consumer is going to be um, the one thing that's going to give in. They've been very resilient this year as far as spending, and we'll get retail sales tomorrow as well. But I don't think it's sustainable when you look at the level of spending and then you look at how they're spending and that is basically turning to credit cards, which are growing at a double digit pace over an annual basis. Um, are you worried about the or are you watching the

credit card legislation. I can't remember the name of the bill, um, but it's like the credit card competition bill or something that's apparently going to open up another pay rail and give retailers more of a choice. Um. No, I'm not following that so much as far as the what people are doing and taking out debt in any respect in the slowing economic economy is not something that consumers want to do. While balance shees are relatively healthy, we're still

seeing savings and savings rates pretty much dwindled down. So um, I think turning to credit is not the right thing at Okay, I sorry, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that you like the credit card companies here. Oh no, no, no, for sure, if if, if the consumer is taking is putting more and more money, more and more purchases on plastic, that's a problem, um. And that's the kind of the kind of sign that we've

been looking for. What's your expectation for a recession in twenty three or some people have been saying maybe won't come till early now. I think I think it's highly likely. In ine, and I actually would lean more towards this the first half of three because we've had such a like I said, a resilient year from the consumer spending standpoint in I think after the holidays, after this spending has been done for this year, that people will sit

back reassess. UM they're going to see the credit cards, not only their credit card bills, the actual number on the credit card build. But don't forget that credit card rates are rising just along with the rest of interest rates. So credit card interest rates right now are very high, and I think this is just going to be challenging for consumers. So I think from a UM spending standpoint,

that's going to pull back. You have that at the same time where you have manufacturing that's now in contraction territory, UM, you have housing that continues to be challenged by higher interest rates and high costs. These three things could be UM could weigh on the economic scenario in the first half of next year. So Megan, you know, we we It seems like a lot of economists say we might have a you know, a tough or first half of

but then maybe better second half. As you think about kind of where you want to position your portfolio, are you guys kind of constructive on the markets here or are you kind of wait and see a little bit as we get into next year. So we're long term investors,

so we're always constructive on the market. But you know, right now, for for the near term, what we're trying to do is raise a little bit of cash going into the year at the end of the year, especially since we've had such a tremendous rebound um since that October twelfth low, so and take last week out of the equation, we still have had a pretty decent upside there.

So there's some areas that we may want to just overall reduce some risk, increase that dry powder, get a little bit more cash because I do believe that in the first half of next year there's going to be a lot more opportunities to put more money into the equity markets for the long run. Tax loss harvesting is a phrase we've been hearing a lot. Is that what

you're talking about? Yeah, So it's not just only tax loss harvesting, because remember, tax loss harvesting is um you know, you're you're taking the tax off and maybe implementing something as ah like an e t F or something that so you're staying participated. But this is an overall tactical move in the market where you want to reduce your

overall risk in the portfolio. So take losses where you can, but also then look at maybe just reducing some of those areas of the market that have rallied so much here in the past six weeks. Megan, you know, as a long term investor, where does technology fit into your perfect just going to ask about the Fang stocks see a great minds think alike off front running a little bit.

But again, the fang stocks have been so good to Matt and me and everybody else over the last dozen years or so, So we think about those types of names. Will they continue to be leaders in this market or is there time as a as a market leader passed? So there was like a three part questionnaire. The first one is, um, what do we think of technology in the long run? And then and then you had mentioned bangs and then um have they lost their leadership? And

technology over the long run is a great investment? Um, good quality technology? The fangs. Um. The reason why they got that that you know, the Fang name to them is because um, they had their valuations had run up so far, so fast. Nobody had anticipated that any other company in the s and P five hundred, including technology, could actually produce the same types of earnings growth that

those companies could. I think that those days are over. UM. People are not going to pay outside valuations for companies just in the hopes for that future growth, and the main reason behind that is that the interest rate environment

is completely changing going forward. UM. I think that there is room for good quality UM technology, even good quality growth, but I think that that's going to be a second half of the year next door UM second half of the year story UM for next year, because I think there's still is room from the valuation correction that we need to see. You're still looking at earnings that probably are slightly unrealistic at this point for some of these names,

so we want to see that come down. Then you'll get a bit more of a better entry point into these areas. What are you looking for in terms of earnings across the SMP, I mean broader earnings and valuations next year. So next year, the multiple is the big unknown. UM. I do think that you're going to see some further pe multiple contract compression in the SMP five but it's

primarily going to be led by technology. UM. Those fang names, as we've mentioned, those are the ones where we're going to see pe contraction and they make up the majority SMP five hundreds. UM. I think earnings growth has um it does need to be revised lower. I still think we can get somewhere around, you know, in the mid single digits of an earnings growth situation, but we do need to see earnings come down. And remember this market

is almost very segmented right now. You have pockets of the market that have really good earnings potential next year, but and you have some areas of the market that I think you're gonna going to struggle next year as well. So you have to be very selective active management from not only your asset allocation exposure, but also I'm even looking from the your investment proposed, your investment exposure as far as managers, make sure that you selectivity is very

important going into next year. All right, Megan, thank you so much for joining us. Good stuff there. We really appreciate Megan Horneman. She's a chief investment officer at Verden's Capital Management. Giving us your thoughts on these markets. I want to talk technology I want to talk technology. M n A Toma. Bravo's got a deal out there, buying some software company, and we'll get to that. But Microsoft buying four percent of the London Stock Exchange. I don't

know what's going on with that one. So fortunately we got a software expert with us, Steve Kannying. He's managing director at SMBC Nico Securities America. Uh. He joins us over the phone. A Steve, can you tell me what Microsoft is doing buying you know, a small piece of the the stock exchange. I don't get it. Yeah, yeah, thanks, thanks to him. Great to be on with you, Thanks for having me. Uh yeah, you know it is um,

it's it's just, you know, it's an indicator. It's a symptom of the fact that there is a lot of runway left for businesses in many industries, in this case financial services, to transform the way they the way they make decisions, the way they use data, and the way they operate in the cloud. And Microsoft being the number two cloud player with a zur Is is a real driver and and benefits from that migration to the cloud. And um, you know, there are a lot of there

are a lot of ways to do it. In this case, this is this is really a vertical specific it's an industry specific initiative UM that Microsoft is undertaking UH which which which basically it's going to allow them to exploit the opportunity to provide financial data to you know, many of Thompson Ruyter's customer and UH and in doing so,

they in signing to steal. They can help to transform Thompson Reuter's on offerings, to better integrate them with Excel, to better integrate with them, team with teams, Microsoft teams, it's collaboration software, and to really make the Thompson Reuters products work better. You know, honestly, I've used Thompson Reuters and I've used Bloomberg, and some of the Thompson's Reuter software could use a company like Microsoft to help them out,

you know, speaking very frankly. Okay, got it all right, Matt. We got another extremely over educated guest here. Our friend here, Steve has got his BS with distinction and mathematics from Stanford, boring Masters and engineering from Stanford, and then an NBA from Harvard. I'm not sure I'm talking to this guy at a cocktail party, but I think he knows what

he's talking about when it comes to software. Paul is a little bit intimidated Steve when it comes to mass statistics, and he said that he's not a STEM guy's um hey, my job is to make it simple. So happy to happy to do that because so well, And that's that's an interesting explanation of the Microsoft deal. And I get that. And if you look at it a little more deeply, UM, there I can't tell if they're paying uh the Elmy

or the Emmy's paying them, Like where's the balance? Because um, they're getting a lot of business in return, right, yeah, Yeah. My read of the terms and the deal is that they're they're buying a billion dollar equity stake and UM and there will be proceeds out of that UM that Thompson Reuters and and LC will use to expand the business, you know, the data analysis business and Thompson's Reuter's tools. UM.

In return, Microsoft gets a UM minimum commitment. It's a ten year deal, so they get a minimum commitment of two point eight billion and guaranteed revenue from l C a UM for using a Zoor Microsoft thought service. Now, now a lot of that revenue was going to happen anyway,

if not all of it, it's just a guarantee. But in addition, Microsoft expects to generate another you know, I would calculate two point two billion, because they calculate five billion in total that they're going to get in revenue from this deal over ten years. And in that additional revenue they're going to get, I think a lot of that is probably going to come from Thompson's Reuters customers.

Is what Microsoft is hoping that they'll help build better tools for Thompson Reuters and that those tools can be sold to the you know, ten thousand customers that Thompson Reuters have. If they call that business for affinity, does that data analysis and tools business? All right? And we should note that Bloomberg LP competes with Thompson Reuters. Yeah, let's let's not worried. We invented the internet, invented it? Hey,

all right? So right, yeah, exactly. So, Steve, we've got another M and a trade in your space here stock that you cover, Kopa going to be acquired by Toma Bravo. Is that Toma Bravo? Okay? What since when is private equity buy software companies? What's going on there. Yeah, well, um, private equity buys a lot of software companies. Uh, that's that's a trend that's been going on for a very

long time. And um, you know the the I think in really in the last twelve months there there have been at least ten pretty large transactions of PE firms buying software. Um. The reason PE firms like software is that the revenues don't trip very easily. They don't go away. You know, once the company buys either package software, infrastructure software and integrates it into their business, you know, they

become pretty dependent on that software. And maybe over time they might rip and replace it, but more generally they just add around it. And so you know, when you buy a software company, you're buying a revenue stream with

a very long tail. Uh. And the other driver here is that, you know, some of these software businesses have not they have not learned how to be profitable yet, but they're very capable of being profitable because the revenue doesn't go away because there's low turn And so the private equity firms are are experts in being able to m create more disciplined cost control of these companies and generate a lot more cash when these companies go private

and and that's what's happening here. You know, Cooper has pretty good cash flow, but um, you know, they've got tough competition in the markets with s A p uh they you know, we see them as the best to breed leader in this business spend management. Um. But I think the private equity firms, he's you know, they see an opportunity to create shareholder value here, especially with the stock having really been hit in the tech down turn

this year. You know, I think they see an opportunity for you know, to add value and that you know, to ultimately take take Kopa either public again or have them acquired by a strates software strategic vendor at a higher price. All right, good stuff, Steve, good having you on. Steve Kanni, really smart dude on this whole software tech space. We need those kinds of voices here, SMBC Nico Securities to cover software there. We appreciate getting a few minutes

of his time. It's pretty go to West Kasova. Now he's a host of Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. A Big Take some of the best reported stories coming out of Bloomberg News. And so therefore you give a podcast because that's what the kids are doing today, mouth doing the podcastings. It's actually big business advertisers like it. West. Thanks much for joining us here. What do you guys have on

your Big Take podcast today? Today we're telling the story actually our second installment on TikTok, you know, the who was placed on the internet. UH investigative reporter Olivia carverl did a story for UH Bloomberg a couple of weeks ago about kids who were accidentally killing themselves trying to copy these dangerous challenges that appear in some of the videos on TikTok, like the blackout challenge, where people try to you know, black themselves out and get that rush

when they wake back up. Well, kids, unfortunately who are really younger doing it, and several of them have died. In her second story, which we feature on the podcast today, she's talking about something a little bit different but in a little bit harder to track, which is what she calls key TikTok, and that's kids who have these accounts are teenagers, um, and sometimes they're a little bit provocative on their accounts. A lot of them are teenage girls.

They're wearing kind of skimpy outfits, they're dancing provocatively. The lyrics of the songs are very suggestive. And there's this big tension between kids doing things on the platform whether that platform should allow it on and a lot of parents and other people are saying that it's inappropriate, it's influencing their kids, and they wind it off the platform. I mean, it sounds more like a parents problem than

a platform problem. To me, Why would welcome to the Why would parents allow their kids to go on this? Chinese who have and raised teenagers, it is it is the number one issue. It's funny we have police officers would come into school about drugs and alcohol. That's not the issue anymore. I mean that is something that parents they kind of have a hold on. The problem with the internet is parents buy and large don't know what they don't know. It is brutally difficult to do with

their software out there. But having raised four teenagers, I can take you, well, let me let me ask you this West how I mean, even if we decide as as Americans that something that TikTok should be regulated differently, how much control over that we have since it's a Chinese company. But you know, it's not so much that's

a Chinese company. When it comes to the control as it is um this idea of how do you police a platform that has tens of billions of videos every year, Olivia writes, in the first half of the year, TikTok removed. I believe it was something like, uh, two hundred million videos from the site that we deemed to be inappropriate. But in that time there were twenty billion videos that were downloaded. And you make a good point about the parents.

You know, it used to be you'd have a computer on the desktop and you could have a white list on the computer of sites where your kids could go or not. And now it's on phones and they create a counting different names. Their parents don't know about the accounts. In the podcast, Olivia talks about this one girl whose name her her name on the platform is Jenny Papaci.

She's sixteen years old, and she's become one of the most popular and one of the most controversial people on the platform because of the way she dances, and she has seven million followers. She has brand deals because she's so popular that people want to, you know, have her future. Their quote, Yeah, it's it's uh, it is the wild West in so many ways West Kasova. He's a host of Bloomberg Is the Big Take podcast all those well

reported stories. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller N seventy three p On Fall Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio