BI Weekend: Nvidia Chips, Dating Apps, Tesla Vote - podcast episode cover

BI Weekend: Nvidia Chips, Dating Apps, Tesla Vote

Jul 18, 202535 min
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Episode description

Watch Paul LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF

Hosts: Paul Sweeney and Lisa Mateo

On this podcast:

- Mandeep Singh, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Tech Industry Analyst, discusses Nvidia and AMD resuming some AI chip sales to China.
- Michelle Davis, Bloomberg Senior Deals Reporter, discusses the BN story: “Stealth Stake Sales Helped UnitedHealth Beat Wall Street Targets.”
- Woo Jin Ho, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Technology Analyst, discusses a recent pact between Hewlett Packard Enterprise and Elliott Investment Management.
- Nicole D'Souza, Bloomberg Intelligence Internet and Software Equity Analyst, discusses research about dating apps and how Gen Z is using them.
-Craig Trudell, Bloomberg Global Autos Editor, discusses how Tesla shareholders will vote on whether to invest in CEO Elon Musk’s AI startup.
- Meredith Annex, BNEF Head of Clean Power, discusses the latest on US Clean Power.
- Isabelle Boemeke, Nuclear Electricity Influencer and Author, discusses the use of nuclear energy.

Bloomberg Intelligence, the research arm of Bloomberg L.P., has more than 400 professionals who provide in-depth analysis on more than 2,000 companies and 135 industries while considering strategic, equity and credit perspectives. BI also provides interactive data from over 500 independent contributors. It is available exclusively for Bloomberg Terminal subscribers.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Intelligence with Paul Sweeney.

Speaker 2

The real app performance has been the US corporate high yield. These are two big time blue chip companies. One person's cast is another person's animal spirits breaking market.

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Headlines and corporate news from across the globe.

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Our view is, if the economy is slowing down.

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There is the possibility of the debt spirals.

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Both putum competing and AI are going to power the future.

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People are just buying everything with tax Bloomberg.

Speaker 1

Intelligence with Paul Sweeney on Bloomberg Radio, YouTube and Bloomberg Originals on Paul.

Speaker 4

Sweeney and I'm Lis Matteo filling in on Bloomberg Intelligence.

Speaker 2

On today's show, we dig inside the big business stories impacting Wall Street and the global markets. Each and every week we provide in dept with research and date on some of the two thousand companies in one hundred and thirty industries our animals cover worldwide. Today, we'll look at Bloomberg Intelligence deep dive into aiding apps and how gen Z is using them.

Speaker 4

Plus a look at how Trump administration policies are impacting the transition to clean power.

Speaker 2

First, we begin with the tech sector.

Speaker 4

Well, this week we heard that tech giants Nvidia and AMD they plan to resume sales of some AI chips in China. This came after US government officials told the companies these shipments would get approved for.

Speaker 2

More at least than I were joined by Mandeep seeing Bloomberg Intelligence senior tech industry analysts.

Speaker 4

We first asked Mandeep to explain the policies of the US government as it relates to chips.

Speaker 5

In mid April, the current administration banned the sale of Nvidia H twenty chips. And remember H twenty is a deprecated version of the Hopper two hundred chip that Nvidia sells in the US and other markets. So it's not the highest hip in terms of performance and power consumption. But at the same time, what they were able to do is to sell this deprecated verd and for a while and then since mid April it was completely banned. And so what Nvidia did was they took down the

guidance and they pretty much rode off. The inventory of the EDH twenty chips for their one Q party was around two point one billion for one queue and then for two Q they guided for an eight billion dollar sort of headwind from the lack of sales to the China region. Now with this new guideline around Nvidia being able to sell those edged twenty chips, I believe it's

a similar version to what they were selling before. I think you could pretty much add you know, I would say up to a twenty five billion dollar run rate annually in terms of sales to China. So think of Nvidia sales next year are going to be around two hundred and fifty billion. That's the current consensus US add twenty five billion dollars to that because that's how much they are able to sell to China as of right now.

It could be much higher, but at least a ten percent lift from being able to sell into China with these kind of lighter version of their highest end chips. So I think it's a net positive. Same thing for AMDMD the market is much smaller for them given their market share in GPUs, but I would say AMD would get a similar lift at least ten percent of their sales expectations.

Speaker 4

So is there a difference between what Nvidia can sell and what AMD can sell in China? Is it about the same as far what the white House would say.

Speaker 5

So. AMD also has a deprecated version of their highest stand chips that they're selling into the US market as well, just because the administration doesn't want either AMD or Nvidia to sell their highest and chip that's made on three nanometers note that has got a search to performance PEC and so they don't want the latest technology to be

sold into the China region. What they're okay with is an older version of Nvidia chips that doesn't have the same level of performance as the current version, and that they can sell into these Chinese companies, and the administration is okay with that, all.

Speaker 2

Right, man, Deep, I have no idea why the government's changing its policy, but it's good for these companies negotiations certainly, so we'll keep it on that. Do we know just off and why they change the policy.

Speaker 5

I mean, it's part of the bigger negotiation. The administration is focused on building more data centers here in the US for them for the companies to be able to do that meta talking about superintelligence and you know all the capex spen they need some stuff from China as well. So this is more about you have the rare earth stuff. We have the chips and it's part of the bigger negotiation.

Speaker 4

Our thanks to man deep seeing Bloomberg Intelligence senior tech industry analyst.

Speaker 2

We recently focused on a Bloomberg story entitled Stealth Steak Sales Health, United Health beat Wall Street Targets.

Speaker 4

You can find it on the Bloomberg Terminal and Bloomberg dot com. It discusses how until this year, United Health Group had managed to pull off an impressive feat more than sixty consecutive quarters of earnings that beat Wall Street estimates, but.

Speaker 2

Now analysts are starting to question how United Health is arriving at these numbers for more. Atleasta and I were joined by Michelle Davis, Bloomberg senior deals reporter.

Speaker 4

We first asked Michelle about what she found out when she looked into United Health's earnings.

Speaker 6

They had kind of a pristine record for more than sixty quarters. They beat estimates. Analysts love them, and at the end of last year that got a bit harder for them to keep up. You know, medical costs arising, the government's been cracking down on reinforcements and that was eating into profits. And so what we reported is that at the end of last year they approached several private equity firms and asked them if they wanted to buy stakes off of them of their businesses, and a couple

interesting things happen here. Not only did they quietly do this, but the deals were structured such that United Health can be forced to buy the businesses back down the road, so it's temporary in nature. And United booked the gains

in an interesting place. They booked them as part of operating earnings, which is or adjusted earnings, which is normally where you look to see kind of how a business is doing, you know, excluding one off gains or one off events like this, And so it was just interesting to see not only the fact that they stealthily did this, but where they put them. And without these gains, they would have missed estimates and profit would have dropped in the last quarter of last year.

Speaker 4

So, as I'm going through this article, this certain quote stands out for me From an analyst that you spoke to. He said, if the company is manufacturing earnings by chopping up their furniture or selling their assets, that's not exactly a great business model. Okay, so is the risk that it might be kind of masking this weakness in the operations.

Speaker 6

That's the concern, and to be clear, you know, there's nothing illegal about what they're doing, per se. You know, they disclosed that they did this, most people didn't see it. It was in a footnote in their ten K that kind of went under the radar, and there are no details about what exactly they sold. That's what we're trying to you know, report on here. But yeah, the concern is it clouds, you know, your ability to see how

the business is actually performing. And we heard from sources that there's a culture inside United Health of you know, kind of there being this pressure to do whatever you can to meet targets every quarter.

Speaker 7

Yep.

Speaker 2

It's a huge company, huge player in the managed care business. What's the underlying concern for investors out there? Do you think around this company?

Speaker 6

United Health has been dealing with a lot of things. I mean, even before we knew about this, there was obviously the tragedy of you know, one of their executives being murdered last year, and then you know, there was a Wall Street Journal investigation this year about potential medicare fraud, which they have denied. They also, in the first courts reported their first earnings miss in you know, more than sixty quarters, so that shoe finally dropped. They outed their CEO.

So investors are just concerned about the story here, you know, what, what is the United Health story? I think that's what the big concern is.

Speaker 4

So are there any other companies, like maybe other health companies or something like that where this same story that you've been talking about kind of plays out?

Speaker 6

Not that we could find it. Seems like United Health is really, you know, unique in its ability and history of you know, really carefully managing its reporting every quarter.

Speaker 2

Our thanks to Michelle Davis, Bloomberg Senior Deals reporter, we.

Speaker 4

Move next to the IT space. This week, we heard that the IT company, Hewlett Packard Enterprise is creating a new strategy committee and HPA is agreeing to work with activist investor Elliott Investment Management on ways to help the software company boost value for more.

Speaker 2

Lisa and I were joined by Wujin Hope, Bloomberg Intelligence senior technology analysts. You're first to ask Wugent about the new committee HPE is creating.

Speaker 8

It is a handpicked board member by Elliott Management. Keep in mind, Elliott is an activist investor that has a ten percent plus shareholding of HPE. I think I believe they made their position earlier this year, and who they appointed was Bob Calderoni, who has done similar type of deals in terms of taking companies private or more importantly operational streamlining. So any changes, I think Elliott is going to try through Bob to affect a lot of changes at HPE.

Speaker 2

Which just remind us what HP is today. Number one and number two, what do they need to fix to move this thing forward?

Speaker 8

Yeah, hey, Paul, so, HPE is one of the leading enterprise IT infrastructure vendors. They provide servers, storage, now a bigger networking presence with the June acquisition, and actually, quite quite frankly, there's quite a bit to fix from an operational standpoint. They fumbled the first quarter results by mispricing their server business and it seems to be reconciled now, but it flags some of the operational issues. Number one, Number two, they have made a lot of M and

A that just didn't create the synergies that they had hoped. So, you know, they did hire the former HPCFO to streamline the financials, and with the Juniper merger starting underway, I suspect that you know, the new strategy board, it will try to find more operational synergies between the two networking businesses.

Speaker 4

WIJ and can you dig more into how it's under pressure kind of like lagging behind Dell and growing AI. What kind of pressure is it facing in that market?

Speaker 8

Yeah, so if we think about AI, right, you know, HPE actually owns Cray, and we think about high performance compute, they are the market leaders there. They weren't able. HPE has not been able to transition that Cray business elegantly to UH the to the AI side of things. So

let me put this into context. I think HPE should be on track for about three to four billion dollars in AI sales UH this year, possibly you know four to five, right, Dell is going to be on track for about fifteen billion dollars this year, and super Micro is probably on track for about twenty billion this year. So you know, they've lagged on the AI front even though they have some of the leading technologies on high

performance compute. That's an area that you know could be fixable under the right hands.

Speaker 2

One more here before we let you go, which is just you mentioned they owned Cray, they owned Juniper. If i'm Elliott Management, am I thinking about maybe they can be selling or spinning off some of these businesses to enhance value.

Speaker 8

Well, you know, Bob Calderoni used to be on the Juniper board and they actually helped with the operational stitch lining of Juniper. Right, so I think that you want to keep Juniper. Okay, there are other aspects of the networking business that you could probably probably parse away. Right, the crab business you'd want to keep because AI is going to be the growth engine and also help you transition to the enterprise AI our.

Speaker 2

Thanks to Wujinell, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Technology Analyst.

Speaker 4

Coming up, we'll look at Bloomberg Intelligence to this deep dive into dating apps.

Speaker 2

Listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in depth research and data on two thousand companies and one hundred and thirty industries.

Speaker 4

You can access Bloomberg Intelligence big. I'm the Terminal, I'm LISMITTEO.

Speaker 2

And Paul Sweingy and this is Bloomberg.

Speaker 1

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Easterned on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.

Speaker 4

I'm Paul Sweeney and I'm Lisa Matteo filling in on Bloomberg Intelligence The.

Speaker 2

Next move, So the world of online dating.

Speaker 4

Bloomberg Intelligence recently did a survey on dating apps and how gen Z is using them, and the survey found that gen Z is dating less than most other generations from are.

Speaker 2

On this Lisa and I were joined by Nicole Desuza, Bloomberg Intelligence Internet and software equity analysts.

Speaker 4

We first asked Nicole to explain her findings.

Speaker 3

We have Bloomberg Intelligence conducted the survey to better understand how people are navigating dating, how they use dating apps, and then also how they feel about AI within dating apps. And so some really interesting findings. First that you know, specifically, gen Z tends to be single but not dating. Gen Z's what age again, sixteen to twenty eight, sixteen.

Speaker 2

To twenty al right, so yeah, single, two of my four into that one, okay, And so they're not using the apps.

Speaker 3

They're not even dating. Single and not dating. So this is I mean, there's a few reasons. Studies have kind of shown they do have higher rates of loneliness, but they are also prioritizing independence. They are also you know, feeling a reduced stigma around being single. So it could really change dating patterns generationally.

Speaker 4

I can kind of say my son was on a dating app and then he stopped because he got tired of it and it just and he's in that gen Z kind of group and they're not going to pay for them too. So how does that change for these different you know, dating apps out there. How do they have to change their approach?

Speaker 3

So right now a lot of what we're seeing from gen Z is that even though they are dating less, they are looking for long term relationships. Those that are dating,

they are looking to form meaningful connections. So, you know, some of the products we've seen from these dating apps that really introduce AI are more around how to create a profile, how to make it easier to talk to people, you know, using AI to generate prompts that might not necessarily you know, correlate with what gen Z is looking for in terms of forming a meaningful connection.

Speaker 2

I'll tell you Lisa go to the Parker House and seeing her at New Jersey on a summer Saturday, thousands and thousands of kids of gen Z type are there at like four o'clock in the afternoon. They're not on the beach. They're all made up, dressed to the nines. I think they're looking to hook to you meet somebody right now. I've been there.

Speaker 3

I had to wait.

Speaker 2

I mean, I don't know what's going on. How about millennials? How did they fare?

Speaker 3

So millennials are they kind of came of age during the time of dating apps, so a lot of dating apps are really created to target dating patterns of millennials. So millennials have a more favorable relationship with dating apps. And they also are much more like comfortable with AI in dating apps versus gen Z, which was surprising to us.

Speaker 4

Now what about Okay, people always forget about gen X, the gen X folks, So what about gen X? And then you know my mom, you know, single, like she wants to find out about these apps. I'm telling you, what about the older generation?

Speaker 3

They're on dating apps, so they're on it. There are Yeah, there are a lot of gen X and baby boomers on dating apps, and there are a wide variety of dating apps to kind of address different age groups, different you know, things that people are looking for. So they're they're available.

Speaker 2

How does AI I have to ask the AI questions Because we had a guest on earlier about it. I walked out of there thinking AI is going to take over Wall Street? How about AI and dating apps that I would think could be helpful to better select somebody who might be a good match or something.

Speaker 3

So we've seen dating app companies roll out a lot of AI products. I would say, right now, it seems, at least based on our survey, that they haven't been that well received. It seems like people don't necessarily need AI to build a better profile, they don't need AI to help them engage in conversation. I think where it has been helpful is user safety, so to weed out profiles that are fake or you know, potentially sent people who are sending harmful messages. And that is a common complaint.

But as of right now, it doesn't seem that you know, at least gen Z and even some millennials are really really adopting these new AI products.

Speaker 4

So, and there are certain a dating apps that are more popular than others, I mean, which are the hot ones right now?

Speaker 3

So right now, at least by users, Tinder has by far the most users that's owned by match Group. And then Hinge is actually one of the few dating apps that is continuing to grow users, and that's probably because Hinge focus is a little bit more on kind of long term relationships, building meaningful connections. Tinder still has a reputation of kind of a hookup app.

Speaker 2

Yes, which one.

Speaker 5

Yeah, that's how my son was on.

Speaker 2

Our thanks to Nicole Desuza, Bloomberg Intelligence, Internet and Software analysts.

Speaker 4

We move next to news from the ev giant Tesla.

Speaker 2

This week, I heard that Tesla's shareholders will vote on whether to invest in CEO Elon Musk's artificial intelligence startup x Ai. That's according to Elon Musk.

Speaker 4

Musk made the statement in response to an account on x that said the Carmaker must be able to invest in x Ai to be fair to Tesla retail investors for.

Speaker 2

More at least and I were joined by Craig Trudell, Bloomberg Global Autos Editor.

Speaker 4

We first asked Craig what kind of message he thinks Musk's recent statement is sending.

Speaker 7

It's sending that, you know, Elon's Elon's business empire is becoming all the more intertwined. So this has been, you know, sort of a case on and off for years. We can think back to say, you know, the Tesla Solar City acquisition, you know, and that's going back quite a ways. But you know, in this case, it would be Tesla, you know, his most valuable company in investing in in sort of his up and comer and one where he's

you know, spent an awful lot of time and energy, folks, Gustan. Lately, as Tesla's electric vehicle sales have been slowing, he's been really sort of dead set on taking on Open AI and and sort of standing up a competitor to chat GPT and as with all the companies in the space, spending an awful lot of money to try and compete in that realm.

Speaker 2

So where do we stand here in terms of kind of how investors are viewing their investment in Tesla. Are they invested in a auto company or are they invested in an AI company or they invested just an Elon Inc? How did they think about it these days?

Speaker 5

Yeah?

Speaker 7

I mean, I think Musk has has been trying for for several years now to sell and position Tesla as much more than just a car company, right and you know, it's it's definitely in the energy space and and you know, has a battery business to show for that. And in Ai, you know, he's he's talked a big game about you know, developing self driving technology. He's not he's not gotten there yet.

Uh as as we've seen with the company, you know, starting to offer rides in in Tesla's around Austin, Texas, uh they still have uh, you know, Tesla employees in the front passenger seat to sort of take over in events where you know, the cars have not been able to handle uh, you know, navigating the streets on their own.

And yet with with uh SpaceX, I think interest interestingly, you know, for them to have just pumped two billion into x Ai, I think there's a little bit of fomo on the part of some in the Tesla shareholder base where they've seen you know, x AI go from you know, not all that valuable a startup to suddenly, you know, an extremely valuable startup and they feel like they've missed out on some of this appreciation and one in on that.

Speaker 4

So with all that said, Craig, I mean, does must support a merger between x AI and Tesla or maybe x a hind SpaceX You mentioned space X two, He says.

Speaker 7

He does not. And and I think there's been talk about this for years, right that, you know, and on and off again there's been you know, questions as to whether or not Musk is you know, sort of stretched too thin and doing too much. Would it make more sense to turn his companies into into one and and sort of you know, he's sort of the think about it as sort of the general electric of of the New age, right, which is kind of fascinating because of

course that didn't work out too well for Ge. And and yet you know, even some of Musk's own allies have sort of alluded to, you know, viewing him and his empire as as sort of you know, modern day general electric.

Speaker 5

So uh.

Speaker 7

He he did take pains to say on an x that he does not support a full blown merger of Tesla and x Ai, but he has you know, signals on there multiple times now that he would be in favor of of Tesla putting money in and you know, that's that's of course, you know, a proposition that could be helpful if Xai continues to grow its valuation. We should note, however, that our colleagues have reported just in the last month or so that Xai has been burning

through about a billion dollars a month. So this is a company that is really sort of cash hungry and needy as it's trying to stand up a business, you know, with all of this capability.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and Craig, it's been I don't know a month or two since Elon Musk left the US government. Doje is there any evidence that he is meaningfully engaging with Tesla?

Speaker 7

You know what, I think he's messaging more about, you know, sort of what Tesla's up to than he was while he was in Washington. He did also post that, you know, he was in Tesla's design studio and sort of hyped

up how excited he was about what he saw. But you know, the company is is, you know, sort of in this really sort of challenging state from a sales perspective, and you've you've sort of gotten indications that, well, maybe he doesn't necessarily fully have his his finger on the pulse in the sense that he told us just within the last few months that sales have turned around, you know.

A couple of months later, the company reports that its vehicle deliveries had fallen thirteen percent in the second quarter. So either he was you know, not necessarily up to speed on the state of sales, or perhaps he was more optimistic that they were able to going to be able to turn things around then they ultimately were able to last quarter.

Speaker 2

Oh thanks to Craig Trudell and Bloomberg Global Auto's editor.

Speaker 4

Coming up a conversation with nuclear electricity influence or an author Isabelle bo Mecki.

Speaker 2

You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing indes research and data on two thousand companies and one hundred and thirty industries.

Speaker 4

You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via b I Go, I'm the Terminal, I'm Lisa Matteo and on paulse Need.

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This is Bloomberg.

Speaker 1

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Corplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

Speaker 4

I'm Paul Sweeney and I'm Lisa Matteo. Filly in on Bloomberg Intelligence.

Speaker 2

Each week we will get research from Bloomberg and EF previously known as New Energy Finance. They're the team at Bloomberg that tracks and analyzes the energy transition from commodities to power, transport, industries, buildings, and agricultural sectors.

Speaker 4

This week, we looked at the recent policies of President Donald Trump and how they may impact clean power moving forward.

Speaker 2

For more, Lisa and I were joined by Meredith Annex b n EF, head of Clean Power.

Speaker 4

We first asked Meredith how the Trump administration is impacting the transition to clean power.

Speaker 9

I don't know if I've called it so much a new policy as a reversal of the policy that's been in place for about two years. For the last couple of years, the big flagship policy for renewable energy in the United States has been the Inflation Reduction Act. What the One Big Beautiful Act now has effectively done is is remove those tax credits on a set schedule. Now, in the text of the bill, that schedule would be

mid next year. However, with an executive order that came out, there's a possibility that these tax credits has been very fundamental for the build up and expansion of renewable energy, that those might actually become very difficult to find at the end of this year.

Speaker 4

All since that announcement of the change, what's changed actually since then, since that announcement.

Speaker 9

Yeah, what we saw was an executive order from the Trump administration essentially saying that they're going to really look at how companies claim these tax credits. Now, the details on that are still pretty opaque. A lot of that's going to come from IRS guidance that we're expecting to see in the coming weeks or months. However, there's a

couple of things that could be open to debate. For instance, the interpretation of what it means to safe harbor these tax credits, which means proving that you're far enough along that you would still merit the tax credits once you become in service. Those definitions could change at the moment. Usually there's a look at five percent of capex commitment or some amount of equipment being procured, that sort of thing as an indicator. If that changes, that could change

which projects are eligible. We could also see differences in the timelines around how long you can have to become in service in order to claim the tax credit.

Speaker 2

Any sense at this early stage, Meredith, how this will affect this overall transition to cleaner energy? Is this a material bump in the timeline?

Speaker 9

Unfortunately? I think it is, and that's hard because renewables are the fastest technology to deploy in the US right now. So the segment's been talking a lot about data centers around the need from power in the United States. That power is not going to come from nuclear tomorrow. It's going to come from solar, a project that takes six months to deploy. What we're finding is that there's sort

of a couple of sectors that are particularly impacted. On Shore wind, for instance, is affected a lot because it's quite location sensitive. What the tax credits did was it allowed more projects to be able to break even at the same rate of return, even with the change in the quality of the wind speed that was in that area. Now you're going to have to be a lot more picky.

Even with solar, especially things like rooftop solar. The tax credits that are available for homeowners are disappearing by the end of this year. When you're looking at more utility scale solar, we think that is more robust, just because it's so cheap. But there are concerns around what's called the Foreign Entities of Concern FBOC categorization and how that will get calculated, how that exposure will get calculated once

IRS guidance comes out. That could be complex because a lot of solar modules, despite an increase in local manufacturing, are still imported.

Speaker 4

What changes could the act mean for data centers for manufacturing sites.

Speaker 9

So as of right now, a data center is much more likely to be operational. It's connected to the grid. So at the end of the day, the biggest thing that the US needs, which wasn't addressed at all in this budget bill, is more invested in transmission distribution CRAD networks so that you can actually connect outside of that. Renewables are the easiest thing to deploy, So if you're talking about more power demand being on the system, you

need to generate more power. It's one thing to produce natural gass, another thing to make that into electricity that a data center can use. That requires a turbine. We're seeing very long wait times on the supply chain for new gas turbines for power plants nuclear capacity. Similarly, if it's not a restart, can take maybe a decade before it'll be online. If you want something online now, the vast majority of planned and permittive projects in the US are wind, solar, and storage.

Speaker 4

Our thanks to Meredith adds bn EF head of Clean Power.

Speaker 2

Staying in the Energy space, guest host Normal Linda and I recently spoke with Isabelle Bomecki. Isabelle is a nuclear electricity influencer and author.

Speaker 4

She's also a former model who is built a following discussing the role of nuclear energy to fight climate change. Her upcoming book, rad Future will be released this summer. The book focuses on nuclear electricity and its effectiveness.

Speaker 2

I began the conversation with isabel by asking about some of the points she's trying to get across to our audience when it comes to nuclear energy.

Speaker 10

Well, first of all, I think when we talk about nuclear energy, it's very important to highlight so this is the most reliable source of clean energy. And so when we're talking about a transition to clean energy, which is what we all know are aiming to do, we have to make sure we remain with the stable grid, and nuclear really helps with that. We've seen around the world that places that turn of from nuclear end up with thirtier and less reliable grids. But there are so many

other benefits. For instance, a nuclear power plant employees up to one thousand people who have very high being stable jobs, union jobs. It's the source of energy that uses the least materials, the least amount of land, and more importantly, as we're witnessing right now, it's a source of energy that has bipartisan support. In the United States. The Biding administration was extremely pro nuclear and so is the Trump administration.

So I think those are all things that we need to take into consideration when we're talking about a clean energy future as well.

Speaker 11

So back in twenty nineteen, there was the Aulstragian bush fire season, and then additionally we had the Amazon rainforest wildfires. Both of these events really helped to inspire you to become a part of the solution. When we think about fighting climate change. How much progress has been made in that fight against climate change since then?

Speaker 10

Well, some progress, but as always, our energy and you were talking about this beforehand, our energy demand just keeps increasing because we keep inventing newer technologies that use a lot of energy. Right now, you know, ten years ago it was cryptocurrencies. Right now we're talking about AI and the huge increasing energy demand, and so I think unfortunately we just you know that everyone out of way is

to use more and more energy. So while some progress has been made, our demand has also increased, so we're still burning a lot of fossil fuels. About eighty percent of the world's energy is still provided by by fossil fuels. So we have to keep investing in these technologies, and this is where nuclear can play a really big role. It's already the second largest source of clean energy in

the world, just behind hydropower. It is the largest source of clean energy in the United States, and I think for you know, over three decades it was completely ignored for a variety of reasons, and some of them is the fears around accidents, which we can talk about a little bit as well. So it's very important that we're now investing in this technology again so that we can speed up this transition to clean energy.

Speaker 2

Isabelle talk to us about modular plants. We don't have to go and build these monster plants that we see occasionally. I know one most recent one was built years ago in Georgia. Talked just about the smaller modular plants, how that technology could.

Speaker 10

That be used. So I think we actually do need to build some of the large plants, because as much as small modular reactors or these new technologies that people are very very excited about. Unfortunately, if I'm a utility or a data center, I cannot go and buy one of those off the market just yet. None of those companies have built prototypes, so we're still pretty far from them being commercially available. In the meantime, we have to

build the existing technologies that we have. But some of the benefits that the small modular companies claim they will have is they'll be able to reduce costs, time to build, and so on. But again, all of this has yet to be proven, and so I think we cannot put all of our eggs in that one basket. We have to invest in technology that we already know works.

Speaker 11

So it's about you have a book called rad Future. What's that all about?

Speaker 10

So Red Future was inspired really by my own need to have an accessible book about nuclear electricity. To your point, In twenty nineteen, I saw the fires in Australia and the Amazon and that inspired me to do something using my platform that I had built as a fashion model, to do something about climate. And at the time I tried buying books that explained how nuclear worked, and I

couldn't find anything that was accessible. It took me many, many years of research to get to a point where I could break down this information about nuclear, the history, the history of the anti nuclear movement, and the technology itself into something that was extremely accessible. And so Red Future was inspired by that, by a need to provide

accessible material. And I think it's such an important topic that right now is being discussed everywhere, and I think people should be able to learn about the technology and answer their questions.

Speaker 2

Is it well with the Trump administration to used inse that nuclear power may get more support, less support, or no real change.

Speaker 10

No, the Trump administration is extremely supportive of nuclear. He passed several executive orders mandating the acceleration of nuclear in the United States to be determined what's going to happen. Also, in the One Big Beautiful Bill, they basically maintained all the support, the credits, the credit techs, and the LPO guarantees for nuclear as well. So the administration is extremely

supportive of nuclear. Hopefully this will play out in the real world, but it's still to be determined, depending on some of the nuances of the text credits.

Speaker 4

Our thanks to nuclear electricity influencer and author Isabelle bo Mecki.

Speaker 1

This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday, ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal

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