Lamborghini CEO Talks Keys To Success and What's Ahead

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.

All right, we have a very special guest this week, Stephen Winkleman, who is the CEO right now of Lamborghini. But he's worn so many hats in the automotive industry.

He has to be one of the most interesting automotive chiefs around. You know, he was at Bugatti, he had the dual role of head of Bugatti and Lamborghini at the same time, which seems like insane, an insane job, but very fascinating guy.

And at Audi Renschport and before that he was at Fiat. So yeah, I agree, he's up there with like Sergio Marcioni for me, yes, as one of the most interesting characters with some of the most experience of any of the execs that we talked to. So looking forward to that interview. I also want to hear a little bit more about your trip, because last time I talked to you, you said you were headed to Spain. I know you went to Sevilla or Seville as we call it here,

Was really fun, I have to say. Unfortunately the days that I was there Friday and Saturday, were the days that it rained.

It's always at.

I know, out of a whole month of beautiful skies, but it was wonderful. I went with Aston Martin to drive the new Vantage, which is the next generation, completely new performance numbers, some updated looks. Drove it on the Monteblanco circuit in Seville or outside of Seville, and then drove it for a couple hours in the rural areas around town, which was gorgeous.

Very cool. I would drive straight over to Cordoba, Oh I love I mean, and check out the temple or whatever it is and all the cool houses there to.

Say, Seville is so beautiful. Of course the old cathedral there. And I did not know this, but that was where Christopher Columbus sailed out of Oh yeah, on his way to the quote.

Unquote Crystal Ball Cologne. Yeah. I love it, and I did love the Asston when I saw the pictures at first when it came out, I thought, wow, it's it's beautiful. Now you posted some on Instagram that I thought it looked a little bit too much like the Nissan Z for me think.

At least coloring. Yeah, that that has to be a color thing. And I have to say I can't really talk about driving impressions yet because I'm under an embargo, but I can talk about how it looks. And I think your take is because the one that I drove was like a Nissan orange with black wheels, and I don't recommend it an orange, but I think there are some gorgeous silvers and sort of gold colors and gray

Know, yips, got some hips on it, got some.

Hips on it, and got some air vents and sort of new arrow and the grills slightly even bigger. Yeah, it doesn't bother me. I thought it looked great. I would not get an orange, I think, I don't think.

I agree. I think with Lamborghini, I would never do that. I would get orange or like acid green. But with the with the ones that you had at least on your Instagram at Hannah Elliott X Oh, I like the silver. I'd go with the more s dude color.

And let's be honest, that instantly makes you think of a dB five or dB six. It takes you back to the Bond days. You cannot go wrong. Actually, Aston Martin says their most popular color is there green. They're racing green, which is the same color as their Formula One team, and they said when they debuted this, this particular green with their racing team, that is the moment when in the production cars this green became the most

Do you have a favorite Bond car or a Bond vehicle?

No, I don't. I would tell you the Lotus just to be contrarian a suir, of course, just to be just.

I mean when I first saw that, I think I saw that movie in the theater. That thing goes amphibious and it's awesome.

Yeah, it's very cool.

I know.

I don't. I can't say that I'm a massive Bond fan. I mean, of course it's iconic and I do like Daniel Craig as as Bond. He's probably to answer your unasked question, He's probably my favorite Bond. But I also didn't have a problem with Pierce Brosnan either.

I agree with you on Daniel Craig, you know, I mean everyone, the automatic answer is Sean Connery, and because he's got for me in it for so long, I loved or More as well. Sure, but I think Daniel Craig is the best Bond. I was only asking because I recently saw in bat that Moke has a Bond edition, because in the first few movies, I guess there was a Moke somewhere in the film, and so there's a Bond Moke, which is pretty awesome. I also like the

Yes, anyway, Saville was great, amazing food, of course, as you might expect, and yeah, just any I didn't see any flamenco unfortunately, you know. To be quite honest, I was there for about thirty six to forty eight hours, and most of that time was on a rape on the racetrack, so I didn't I need to go back and have some actual cultural moments there.

I agree.

The car it's such a it's such a hot place for car and motorcycle debuts because the weather's so nice.

There are many in Spain this year, Bentley, Porsche, Aston Martin. There are going to be.

Quite It's also did you know, I'm sure you do that almost all Lamborghinis are named after famous Spanish bulls. Yes, which is weird because Lamborghini's obviously very Italian, right, but they name all of their cars after Spanish bulls.

Yeah.

I like that, you know what. Let's change the subject and we'll go to the CEO of the Spanish bull car maker. Let's get more from our interview now with Stefan Winckelmann. Let's get you first to give us a little bit of your CV or your timeline, because you've had important positions at some of the most impressive car makers in the world. So how did you get started and how did you do this round trip from Lambo to Lambo.

I was more into motorbikes actually when I grow up, because I grew up in Rome, and in Rome, due to the weather, there was no law for helmet. So for me was the first love was driving motorbikes. And

So you were born in Berlin and then your parents moved to Romani exactly.

I was born in Berlin.

My parents moved to Italy to Rome when I was a baby, and when I joined Fiat, I was there for eleven years.

And then there.

Came a call from the Volkslan group and they offered me the position of CEO of Lamborghini. A lot of my friends said not to go because it was a hire and fireplace, and I said, at the end of the day, this is an opportunity which is coming once in a lifetime that you have and let's say responsibility, a global responsibility from development or purchasing, production, marketing and sales, which was my let's say my starting point in Fiat and Mercedes, and so I started and I never regretted.

It was interesting.

But then there was the opportunity to go to Bugatti because Bugatti was let's say a company which they wanted to develop and they asked me. At the time Mattias Muller told me what you did in Lamborghini was something which we would like also to see happening with Bugatti.

And then he was gone after four months.

And Mattis Muller, that was sad for me because he was like my German namesake. Okay, you know running Volkswagen. You so you started under Pich.

I started at that time it was no, it was not Pie.

It was Pitchitzi at that time, and then Wintercon. Then it was Mattias Muller, and then at the NDS, and now it's Olive O Bloom.

What was your key to success working with those guys? I mean, those are those are some sort of notorious bosses. What did you learn from working around them? And what was the key to your survival navigating that time?

You know, the toughest school I had was in Fiat Auto, and I have to say that my mentors in Fiat without having official mentors, this was something which was not existing.

In Fiat at that time.

They teach me always to face your fears, never to give up, always to go ahead, and to be honest because all along you have to watch in the mirror

Gave us.

The focus on the product, which I really appreciated. Mattias Muller is wasn't He's a friend, so we always had a very good relation and he trusted me. And Oliver Bloomer is a different type of style, but he's somebody who is looking very much into the future. He has a strategy and I really appreciate to be in his team.

By the way I want, I feel like Matthias Muller is a true Faber. You know. I guess this won't be as interesting for everybody around the world, but in Germany people are very different if they're from you know, the Black Forest exactly, or Berlin.

Matthias Muller was from eastern Germany by burs Or. He is from eastern Germany by Bursa, but he is more He worked then for Porsche, but he was for the longest time of.

His career he was in Audi so his dialect is very Bavarian. I don't know if you remember that. And when he moved and I think he still lives in Shortga.

Now I was just guessing I was wrong. I I just feel like I just feel like he would look good with the mustache, and that's like, what the schwab do?

You know?

So, who were you looking at as people that you admired and respected, either you know, just personally or professionally. And I'm asking because you know, we've known each other for so long at this point, but most of our conversations are very focused on the business. But I kind of wanted to learn more about you and your development because you've been around for you know, you've been at the turk for a while.

Yeah, it's difficult to say. For most my father he was somebody I was looking up to. He was never somebody who was telling me what to do and how to do, but he was always giving me guidelines and something which I appreciate now that he's not in this world anymore. And I understood a lot at my age today on how he acted and why. So it was always a given that he was present the moments when I needed the most, and it was clear that I had to study after after high school, but he was

Maybe shocked, was he not.

He was not a military man, No, he was.

He was a diplomat for the United Nations for this special organization which is the headquarter in Rome, which is called the Food and Agricultural Organization the FAO. So this is the reason why I grew up in Italyan and Rome.

And you would have been an Italian soldier or you were to join the Bundesweer.

I was in the German Army. I was a paratrooper, and I wanted to This was what I wanted to be. I wanted to be in the in the now, in the culture.

Exactly, very cool.

It's also interesting to me that you were in the kind of Agnelli clan like you were in the Ferrari group, and then you went to run Lamborghini. What what's that relationship?

Like?

Is there a rivalry? They're both in the motor valley, right, but they're very they're seen I think, very differently culturally. They have very different clientele. I would think, how do you view that.

Fiat Auto is something which is not existing today anymore? And Ferrari is in let's say, is a made in Italy and it's an icon not only in Italy but worldwide and Lamborghini was an underdog for decades now, it was not very successful company. Only in the last time we were or we are working on eye level. In my opinion, we are very different in terms of approach. Our careers are very recognizable, and I think it's good to be let's say, rivals, but also very close because

Rich because I think of you know, if I go to if I go to a Ferrari challenge, you know, weekend Lime Rock or like a Lamborghini driving school in Vegas. There's a different kind of yes, dude.

For sure, we have younger customers with people which want to be recognized in their cars. They're very proud, they love made in Italy. But also the Ferai guys. I have this attitude and I would never say something negative about Ferrari.

You will not.

I'm not trying to tease that out of you.

I'm just I'm curious. Did you watch the Ferrari movie partially? Did you? What was your impression boring? I saw the whole thing at a screening, and I love Penelope Crews. Okay, that's my take.

Okay.

But the thing that was impressed upon me in that movie, and I guess I knew already, was that Enzo Ferrari sold cars to race, whereas I think a company like Portia races to sell cars, right. But for Lamborghini, there is really I mean, there is racing, but it's not really part of your DNA like those other companies.

Flamborghini. When he founded the company, he said, I don't have to prove that I'm able to do the best guys, the best super spots guards. So I am not going into racing because it's a matter of fact that ours are the best in my opinion.

Things change.

So we started with the one make race series in two thousand and nine, which we called super Trofeit we start at first in Europe, then we have also won in North America and one in Asia. It's very successful until today, and then we stepped up into GT.

Three.

All these type of races have a similarity to oh they are still into gentlemen drivers' attitude. You can recognize the street legal car on the racetrack, so our Hura can looks very much the same if it's a.

GT three or street legal car.

Also super trofil And now we entered this LMDh or the hypercar idea, and this was a tough decision for us, but it came at the right time. Why because we have a hybrid system, which.

Is now what we're doing with all our lineup.

We were racing with WEC and IMSA, which is also very positive, so we have a worldwide visibility. They told us that it's going to be an overseeable budget, so this was another reason why. And last but not least, also the fact that you have it's endurance racing, so you have a lot of good results in terms of testing materials and things like this, which is then also useful in the serious production. So these are the things we came late. We came one year later than the others.

Race of the year.

I guess now we can sort of dig into the car thing. And you know you mentioned that it was not a foregone conclusion that you would get into racing, and that it was a difficult decision. What were some of the arguments to not get involved, just so we can understand what's the debate on the other side of not doing it.

That you don't have the money, that you don't have the head count, that you don't have time to do so, that you're losing, so that you're not competitive. All these fears are part of the business because you have a name which you have to defend. And so when we decide that we decided to start slow with the one makes a serious and therefore to step into it peer

By the way. By the way, the Event to Door was for a long time my all time favorite car. I actually met you on the circuit they f one circuit in Barcelona when I first drove the Event to Door SV, which was awesome. Recently I got to drive the what happened?

That was the day when they gave us the okay on the.

Yes so long ago. Yeah, anyway, that was a very memorable time for me. So but recently I got to drive the Hurrican Stato. And I've driven the Hurrican before at different racing schools and stuff, and it's obviously the track focused weapon of your arsenal, but the Strato changed everything for me. I think it was the most fun I've ever had driving a car off the track, you know, not off road, because I wasn't allowed to take it off road.

But I think the question is do you get many customers crying in your cars, because apparently the car broped Matt to tears in.

A happy one. What he said, it was just the brute of the engine combined with you know, the compliance of the suspension was just such an amazing experience, and the ultimate question is what comes next because the eventa door has been replaced now by the rib Welto, so we know what the twelve cylinder follow on is what comes now after the hurrican.

But we will have the new Racan.

We will present the second part in the second part of the year here in the US, so it will be a very important event.

It will be the world premiere.

And what we're trying to do in Lamborghini, even with limited resources, is always to, let's say, to do something which is unexpected now, and the Serrato was something like this, and we said, we have a four wheel drive system, we have Araca, which is a robust, we have the best quality. Ever, why can't we do something which is not off fraud but off the concrete. No strato means the one which is on dusty roads.

I took it, by the way, on the oldest unpaved road in America. Oh yeah, you see, yeah, from the Revolutionary War, just about fifty miles north of here. It was very cool.

So, and it's a car which is not only lifestyle and it's for example, I think in the US, but also and the rest of the world. With all the potholes in the cities. It's a car which is even more easy to drive than comfortable. And on top of that, if you go on the race, seg off road so much fun. And I think that a car company like ours can do things like this, and we were daring to do so, and the success for me was expected. For others was unexpected, but for me it was very much expected.

It does seem to me that Lamborghini is a company that isn't afraid to have a little bit of fun. I know, certainly your protective of the brand and the image, and it's really a good point when you say, look, you have to worry about losing it. When you join a racing series, you could lose and that doesn't reflect well. But it does seem like Lamborghini is a little more open to playfulness. Is that accurate? And how do you give that image without actually exposing yourself to too big of a risk.

But I think that if you buy a Lamborghini, you don't buy the car because you need it, but because you want to have a dream fulfilled And also in terms of racing, maybe I forgot to say if we lose, we lose in style, not because everybody recognizes that we are the smallest or we am in a big series, so they see what is happening. When we have one car on the grid, there are others which have three or five and this is clearly then giving you the

I would like to have one of those. By the way, after you work at Audi, Rnchport and Bugatti and Lamborghini, I would expect that if I go into your personal garage at home, you've got a hirone sitting there, maybe in RS six.

I mean I've seen him in a Bugatti, you know.

An eventa door like one of the limited editions. What have you got at home?

So, first of all, I'm not that rich.

Second, I don't have any car which is belonging to me because I don't have space. And frankly speaking, I love to drive cars, but I also know that if you have historical cars, which I like and I appreciate, you have to take care of them. And I don't have time, and I don't want to bother others to take care of my staff. There are cars which I love but I cannot afford for sure, and others I could afford, but I never bought because of what I said.

Now, but when you one day, So you don't own a single car, no, no one, Okay, what about a motorcycle? Motorcycles don't have the space issue.

Yeah, you're right, but.

It's no.

I don't own a motorbike, but I still I'm always tempted to buy one.

I can't believe like Cloudio dominically doesn't at least give you a motorbike.

Just now. You always asked me if I want to, I can drive whatever I want. He gives me always the opportunity.

You might actually have a very smart idea, which is you get access to all of these things, but you don't have the headache and the responsibility of actually owning any of them.

So far.

Yes, yes, if we speak about let's say today's production cars, if we speak about let's say historic cars, then for sure or not.

No, but this is something which I could not afford.

I have to say, but you clearly do love driving and experiencing the automobiles, and I my memory of you is on the Milli Milia. You were in a Bugatti with a beautiful woman along the route. Not to say too much, but she was gorgeous and it just I mean, in the middle of Italy in the summer, it just was the most beautiful scene, and I know it just seemed very much like, oh, this is such a beautiful

Have to say that, I'm one of the few lucky persons which can combine this type of atmosphere and experience with your job now and also to test those cards in different different environments. So for me, this is something which I I am very happy and glad that I have the opportunity to do so. And therefore I feel blessed. What that's Can I say?

Yes? Congratulations? Congratulations, dude, you win. Let me ask about a little bit about the ev future because you now have basically two plug in hybrids, right, I mean.

Two, and we will get the third one.

You have the revwelto, we have the awerdo that now, the Urus essay, and then there will be the follower of the Huracan, and.

The follow of the Hurricane also will be a plug in hybrid.

Also would be a plug in hybrid.

Can you tell us any more about the power train? No?

No?

All right? So what about the full battery electric vehicle that you have in store the Lanza door? Is that gonna be? Is there any chance there will be like an internal combustion what they used to call a range extender, because I was thinking if you put one of the Ducati Panagali V fours in there, it could help with the sound and with the vibes, the smells. You know, it wouldn't be fully evy.

We would never put something which is not our engine inside our cars.

But you know the things, you know that there was a there was a concept with the Panagali twin, with the eleven ninety nine twin I remember, I'm pretty sure.

Not for Lamborghini.

No, it was just was it just a Volkswagen?

Was not for Lambo? No, no, it was not for Lambo. But what I can tell you is that we think a lot. The first of all, the meta of sustainability is not coming.

From out of this world. It's a meta which everybody has to take care of. There are people which these which were democratically elected.

They make the rules.

We have.

A few requests as a manufacturer of our size, that there is a let's say that the rules are the same all over the world, which will should be one of the things we have to take care And then it's clear that if the rules and the laws are coming quicker than the technology is accepted, or if the infrastructure is in place, then it has to be adjusted. It can be diluted. But at the end of the day, we all have our responsibility, which is greater than just

I'm sure about that.

So we have to do something which is accepting the challenge and continuing to do cars really dream, make the people dream. In my opinion, the opportunities also for electric cars to be very, very emotional. This is not the case today, in my opinion, is a bit too early. But the five six also ten years down the road, with all the technology which is coming up, I see that there is a good opportunity that the things are going to change for us. We don't need to decide.

Bridgs to me for a minute, seem like it was just a bit of a bridge technology to go from combustion to ELEC track. But now it's starting to feel like they're here to stay the reviable platform and they have a lot of benefits on both sides. And this is an actual part of the business planet. It's not just a stepping stone. It sounds like that's what you're saying for Lamborghini as well.

Yes, for sure, because if for us it's clear now, we have always to promise that the next car is going to be more performing than the actual one. And the new commitment we have to give is also that they are less emissions included, so the CO two missions have to drop dramatically also for our type of car, even though we are not making the difference now in the CO two emissions worldwide with our few thousand cars a year which are not even driven on a daily base.

To the year thirty five.

Here in the US, for example, in California, you are this zero emission vehicle legislation which is not one hundred percent clear on how this is going to be ending up. But in Europe today is thirty five or thirty six. For the small manufacturers you have to have electric cars. If this is changing into synthetic fuels and something which

How much time do you need to pivot in order to hit those targets which do seem to be changing. I know, obviously you want to allow yourself a little bit of space to change direction if you need.

To, but usually you develop a car, you need four four to five years. So this is something we are lucky because we are changing all the lineup. Now we don't have to decide immediately, and we can also see what is going to happen. But sooner or later you have to put the cards down.

Can you just educate us a little bit about the considerations going into how you price something like an urus and then how you would price the hybrid compared to the internal combustion version. I'm just actually curious. I've never asked you that before.

So for us, the roots are a bit different. Now you have high investments, low volumes. This is the trigger. So high investments, low volumes, you need.

To have a price positioning, and we are not positioning because it's luxury. We are positioning because we have the latest technology. We have very exclusive materials in the cards, so there is a reason why, and it's for sure that we need to have enough earnings to reinvest in the future. We are in front of the biggest investment

The pricing is not out of this world.

So also in our range you have a comparison with the other manufacturers, you position yourself because there is a size of the segment of the market of the day weight and this is the point. The step between in turn combustion engines and the plug in hybrids is an important one. We have to say it's an increase of the price tag because there is a higher cost inside.

Than a substantial increase.

Right, Well, it depends on the car. But on the for example, on the on the Urtles is not the case, but on the Reworld it was the case. But because it's a complet new developmental for a complete new car.

All right, So that was our interview with Stefan Winckelman. It was awesome having him here.

I cannot believe he admitted to not owning a car. I think he's the first automotive boss that has ever said that, and it's very cool.

Yeah, that's in a way I think takes a little bit of kahonas for sure.

I mean he doesn't. He's just like, hey, he doesn't. He's got access to everything.

I mean, so I thought, you have to buy a Bugatti after you've been working in Mulheim and you know, running the company. But he makes a very good point. They are three million dollars. Not everybody has that kind of disposal income.

Well, when his first reaction is he can't afford it, honestly, my thought is, can't you get a deal?

Yes, that's a good thing. That's a good point. But he gets to drive him whenever he wants. I was with him in the bilster Berg when I had my turn on the Hirona and it was amazing.

That's cool.

And obviously he gets drive Lambos all the time, and he can probably take anything from the Volkswagen stable.

Yeah.

I guess he's friends of the Ferrari people, so you can take some of their cars once in a while too, for sure.

I mean there's so much there. I really want to dig into this whole idea that he wanted to be a military man. I think that is so interesting, and that's another I don't know, it's just very unique. You don't hear many people say they had wanted to join the military and then they had to do with sort of a plan. B.

By the way, I mentioned a Lamborghini concept with a Dukati motor. I was wrong. I've googled it now. It was a Volkswagen concept. It looked a little bit like a Lamborghini, but it was the Folkswagen XL Sport. It was their hybrid that had a Panagali motor, back when the Panagali was only two cylinders but still making one hundred and ninety seven horsepower. I just think it's so cool, and because to me, you know, when BMW had the I three with the range extender, that's what they called it.

Yeah, I think it'll be really interesting to see. I mean, I don't sense that they are necessarily going to go any which way by twenty twenty. I mean, they can pivot again.

It's getting close, though, he said, you know, four to five years is the runway for a car developing a car, and twenty twenty eight is like four years away. Kind of what have you got coming up this week?

Well, you know what. This weekend is Miami Formula one, so it's going to be a very intense weekend. I'm going to head down there. Ferrari will be unveiling a new car in Miami, so I'm very excited about that.

Do you know anything about what kind of car?

They are very tight lipped on.

Four door sedan. Possibly that'll be the day.

No, if that is the car, I will be shocked. I think we can rule that off.

That's never happened, right.

Yeah.

I have been riding motorcycles a lot, so, oh what have you been on? I've been riding my Ducati Monster S four r s desperately trying to get out for a ride. The first day, as soon as I got like a mile away from the house, the battery died and wouldn't and wouldn't be jumped. So I had to spend the most rest of the day. I had to go over to Hudson Valley Motorcycles and Richie had an

I find I mean, this is oh for two in a way.

Well it happens when you're like kicking off the season, but we're now.

We're there, all right, all right, third time is going to be the charm.

So I'm focused. That's my focus right now, riding.

Good, good good.

I guess that's it for this week's episode. YE look forward to hearing back from you after your weekend in Miami.

I think it's going to be quite an intense weekend.

I'm Matt Miller and

I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg