Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is hot Pursuit.
All right, we have a guest that you, I think recently have interviewed. Yes, for your day.
Job, for my day job writing about automotive things. Aaron Keating, who is the executive analyst for Cox's Automotive, is going to join us. And she's so informative and articulate about what is really happening on the underside of the automotive market. I thought she should come on and help us understand what's going on with these high prices.
Yeah, I'm pretty excited to talk to her. She knows a ton about the industry because she has so much experience and so many different.
Used to work it out.
Ye positions, Yep. My first car was an auty by the way, the first car that I bought myself, Right, My first car was my mom's baby blue Volvo two forty station wagon. I put thousands of miles on it without ever changing the oil, and then at like two fifty the motor just seized.
You know, I did that with the accurate legend. When I was in college, I didn't really know, you have to like check the oil.
Yeah, I didn't really get that at the time.
I didn't get that. No one told me. No one told me. And yeah, the same thing happened to me with my white accurate Legend with a phone in it. Unfortunately.
Wow, cool car though, with the phone in it.
Yeah, it was my uncle's. He was a corporate lawyer. He was like the only car guy in my family. He was cool. He's still alive.
I fondly remember the first days of car phones. My dad, also a corporate lawyer, got one and it was in like a briefcase. Yeah, and I thought it was like.
The curly cord.
Yeah, yes, yeah.
I thought it was extremely cool.
It was pretty cool. I never had anyone to call, but I was always like I could call someone.
If I wanted to in case of emergency.
But yeah, that volvo into a lot of grateful dead shows and co and then didn't go to anymore. But no, my first car ever. When I first started working for Bloomberg, by the way, twenty five years ago this.
Month, wild congratulations, I.
Took my first paycheck and some money that I'd saved up in college for a down payment on an Audi A four station wagon because I'm not an idiot with a two point five liter TDI motor that I mean, it had one hundred and eighty horse power, but still I could pretty easily get it up to two hundred kilometers an hour on the Autobahn because I was in Frankfurt and it was like my Schemobile for the perfect next five years. It was such a great car.
That's a really good choice, like very makes a lot of sense, very practical but also cool.
Yeah, a stick shift obviously, you know, three pedals. It had like suede strips in the seats to hold you in place, kind of sporty.
You know what color was it?
Dolphin gray? I they didn't really have many choices. Yeah, you know it was like three different shades of gray and then a bluish gray like what is this?
This is pre married Matt obviously.
Yeah, yeah, no it.
Yeah.
It was my first time, like you know, really living in my own apartment away from home, a real job after the record store, you know, and uh like a grown up.
Yeah, I remember those days that I had, and it's just such a fun feeling for me, it sounds like for you it was.
That's such a it was amazing. My first cell phone, you know, like with a monthly contract. Wow, and text messaging was like the newest thing. No one could believe it. I remember using the first BlackBerry that I ever had in that car.
Is that a company BlackBerry?
It was actually BlackBerry gave me a model to test out before they started really selling them. And my friends couldn't believe that you could send and receive emails with this cell phone. It was just amazing. That was before three g. Let's talk about new cars with our guest, Aaron Keating. She is out in San Diego at a Toyota event driving the Forerunner, the new for Runner. What a hot car, What a hot truck.
Man. If you had that in high school when I was in high school.
Oh yes, you were cool. I had a buddy who had one in college. It was sweet.
Yeah.
Aaron Keating from Cox Automotive.
I have to say, the whole idea for this conversation with Aaron Keating, who is the executive analyst for Cox Automotive, I hope I got that right. Erin and of course Cox Automotive owns Kelly Bluebook, but Erin also has quite a long career in the automotive industry, and she has worked for automakers, with automakers and now she's an analyst. And what I was getting to is I called her
last week because I really wanted to understand pricing. We've just seen all of the new average transaction pricing numbers come in for twenty twenty four and it was so insightful to talk to her about that. I said, you should come on the podcast and enlighten us both. So Erin, We're so happy to have you, of course, thank.
You, thanks for joining. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I've been focused on pricing as well because with the threat of twenty five percent tariffs against Canada and Mexico, I saw an estimate that new car prices could rise by another three thousand I think that was Wolf Research that put that out, and so I looked back at Bloomberg Intelligence data, which I guess you must have the similar similar data, and saw that the average new car prices have gone up from I think it was thirty three thousand,
five hundred in twenty fifteen to forty eight thousand, eight hundred in twenty twenty four, so a forty six percent increase already. And then the threat of another six percent on top of that seems crazy.
We'll be crippling. And we think that's a fairly low number. Could be depending on which models we're talking about and how many you know. Again, I think Hannah and I were talking about the fact that tariffs, you know, will be impacted also just on how many times the cars or the component trees going back and forth across the borders. You know, we don't yet know how they're going to
solve for that challenge. If a part is going from here over to Canada or down in Mexico and getting put into a component, and then the component as a unit is being sent back over here or being assembled there, you know, if that's where it will add to the cost theoretically, you know, you'd hope that they'd think through that logistically, but how do they track the sheer logistics needs in the supply chain to manage that complexity.
I don't have a ton of confidence.
And let's talk about pricing though in general, because it's been a big issue, you know, especially during the pandemic. They just took off not just new cars but used cars. Is it just me or do automotive products just take up a larger share of our income now than they did ten twenty years ago.
No, they for sure do, and there's a lot of reasons that they do. And there's the cost of ownership. Even though a lot of people Kelly Bluebook and other groups, you know, look at total cost of ownership, it's a little bit tough for consumers to understand because most consumers will look at their monthly payment. That's what's really helping them make their decision. But that monthly payment, which includes insurance and things like that, those prices are also blowing up.
So it's not just even that the car itself is more expensive and taking up a bigger share of your wallet. Ancillary expenses that you have around that have also been rising. So it's not your imagination. It is happening.
And I know we spoke about the reasons for this. I mean, this is not some arbitrary thing that automakers are deciding we would like to make more money there, We're going to up our prices. Can you just run down it's going to be a repeat of what you told me, But there are so many complicated factors. Can you run down for our listeners what goes into the pricing structure of why car is priced a certain way.
Absolutely, and you know you mentioned Matt about COVID and how the cost went up. Yes, there was a supply and demand challenge within the market that did help increase prices. So some of that, some of that pricing did go up based on a supply and demand pure economics. But over the course of the years, I think what a lot of consumers don't necessarily understand or want to face about themselves as consumers, especially in the US, is that
we're very picky in the US. I think I was working with one of my guys in Kelly Doulbook recently to see we have over six hundred and thirty variants of vehicles in this country, six hundred and thirty so forever. I mean, you know, I'm here right now at the Forerunner launch and they have nine different levels of the Forerunner itself coming out just for the twenty twenty five edition, nine different variants and within that remember colors, interior, exterior,
trim packages. These things get really expensive to have to come up with the right production planning to get the right amount of each type of vehicle that every American wants, and they want it just so and so the complexity that we've demanded as consumers in US certainly put the pressure on manufacturers to build to our specifications, so to speak, and that's done and planned, you know, as we know
two to three years out from the product cycle. So those complexities start to pile on pricing, which is why you see a lot of companies trying to go towards you know, platforms that could be agnostic across a couple of different models and so forth. So the complexity, I think is a really big one that we just don't give enough credit to and the consumers, you know, to be a little harsh, don't take enough responsibility for why the cost has.
Been driven up by a lot of that.
Certainly, compliance and regulation complicates the cost structure of things.
You know.
We know that even the most recent regulations that are coming through around the breaking being able to you know, your card needs to build a break over sixty miles
an hour. Every new feature that we are putting into the complexity of the US market specifically, I've talked a lot about this with people who are looking at the Chinese market and saying, you know, the Chinese can somehow build cheaper cars just remember that a lot of the markets are selling those cars into don't have the regulation that we have for safety purposes and so forth in the America, in North America, and so therefore the home alligation requirements can become more expensive.
So that's another reason.
But we were also moving towards this transition with the power trade, and right now electric vehicles are not profitable for most auto manufacturers.
You know what, I hate electronic parking brakes. I miss a handbrake in a lot of vehicles, and I think many fans of cars, like people who really love vehicles, miss the handbrake and don't like the button the electronic handbrake. Is that a regulatory thing?
That's a good question, Matt.
I can't imagine it is, because there's still plenty of vehicles that have the push brake for your foot.
You know, the pedal brake.
That's true.
Yeah, So I'm not sure that the handbrake would have been thrown in there, but we want it, I would imagine, and I can't say this is for sure, but I would imagine we got rid of the handbrake because we wanted more space for bigger cup holders, and we wanted space, you know, women started asking can we have a space for my purse to.
Go in between that center console.
You know, there's there's different trade offs that a lot of manufacturers had to make based on again our very pickiness of the types of things that we want in our peoples. And you know it's not all that. But to your point, for those of us that are enthusiasts, we miss them all.
You know what I think is has been And tell me if I'm wrong, Aaron, But my impression of some of these programs, like the Black Badge program and the Night series program Rolls. Royce has their Black Badge, Mercedes has a Night series that kind of group together some sort of special customization and in a way that makes the buyers feel that they are special and they can
reflect their own personality in the cars. Is that the way that automakers are balancing being able to give customers something that feels special and customized, but also trying to manage efficiencies and the way that they implement some of these special touches for lack of a better word.
Sure, I mean, you're talking of course about brands that are very high luxury and so you know, their profit margins are a little bit bigger and allow them to do a little bit more customization or create more specialness.
In their products.
But we're seeing that also carried down down market into more affordable lineups as well. So for sure, I think it's a matter of helping customers to feel more special especially in the luxury market.
The more you go down market, it's.
Likely that people are believing that the younger generation wants that type of specialization. And you know now that you can yeah, customize your environment anywhere you are, I think that they're and I'm not sure it's true. I'm not sure that the next generation needs that type of specialness, but I think we've all convinced ourselves, given the proliber of all of our connected devices, that we need those
types of things everywhere. And you know, maybe if we didn't give them to people in vehicles, we'd still be dealing with cars that were a little bit more affordable, and probably everyone would still love like.
Windows that you have to crank to roll up rather than right exactly.
I've got my nineteen eighty three BMW three eighteen.
N and it's got its stitch shift and roll.
Down windows and non power steering, and I am teaching my children to embrace you know, this is what a car used to feel like.
That's awesome. I think part of that is a padding margins because I noticed recently Harley Davidson now charges if you want black finishes instead of chrome on you know, your forks and your exhaust and so forth, they charge you one three hundred fifty dollars extra. That's not because it costs them more in Milwaukee to put black finishes than it does chrome finishes. It's because they know everybody wants the black finish and it's an opportunity for them to raise your price. Yeah.
Absolutely, for sure. I think you're dead on there.
I mean, the manufacturers have to look for ways in which to keep the profitability at a reenable level for them to be able to continue to move into the next generation again of power trains and so on and technology. That for sure, if there's an area where you think that there's consumer demand for a specific specialization that you can, you know, charge a premium price for that, of course, will always help them with their margin market numbers.
One thing that you mentioned we spoke about that I thought was so interesting is how you really emphasize that the more expensive cars are gaining ground. I think you said that cars that cost at least eighty thousand dollars increased thirty seven percent in December compared to the previous year, and the average price of a vehicle in that segment
was over one hundred thousand dollars. So that to me says and I think you touched on this, people either want the most expensive all of the options, or they want a very very basic minimum move and not not sure this middle ground. Is that what you're seeing?
Yes, and yes for luxury, for sure, we're seeing that all the bells and whistles are now just an expectation, and so typically people will go for the higher trims. I think it certainly continues to speak to the vibrication of our market. Also, you know, we've seen this trending for the last couple of years, and so the rich keep getting richer and it is becoming less less affordable for lower to mid income. But we did see, you know, inflation did drop a little bit for the lower quintile.
I think last year we.
Got to a gap of over twenty percent gap where the lowest income quintiles we're feeling inflation at as high of a twenty two percent rate versus the highest income quintiles, who were you know, floating there around the three percent. So it really does depend on what part of the market you're in, the income quintile you're in, with how
inflation actually feels to your budget. So those lower trim cars are going to always be more attracted to individuals that really just need a mode of transportation as opposed to looking for a car that they're you know.
Loving and living.
Luckily for them these days, even the lowest trim of most models are really superior cars and great.
Great modes of transportation.
You know, you're really hard pressed to find a car that's just a complete you know, like their bones, not worthy of having. But that's I mean, part of the reason you see interest in China is because you know, they reportedly can build a car.
For fourteen thousand dollars and again one seconds some alligator. For the US, it will be different, but there's.
Also a very healthy US market. And you know, I hate to keep bring up Harley Davidson, but I've been kind of obsessed lately, and to be fair, you know, they sell forty five thousand dollars bike. So we're talking about the same price level, but I've heard that they're reducing their models offering and taking out some of the mid tier price options because they just say, look, if you can't afford to step up to the big boys, we want you to buy used.
And yeah, is that?
I mean? I for a long time, I know Portia has been a big supporter of their used market. It makes a lot of sise to me. Does that Do you hear that from executives as well?
You know, I haven't heard that specifically from executives, but it makes perfect sense.
You know.
The only challenge, of course now that we're going to have in the next year or two is that we're actually running.
Fuel on fumes here.
With used cars, because we did miss that gap of about ten million units during the supply chain snarl and the COVID crisis, and so interestingly enough, we are going to face a little bit of a crunch and used cars and use cars may in fact get more expensive because of the supply demand issue there. But definitely we've seen a lot of manufacturers hold on to their CPO programs, and more than that, a lot of them, as you've seen, are starting to put even older vehicles into their CPO programs.
It used to be held, you know, CPO used to be relatively held for the one to three year old vehicles, and now I think bomb that goes up to ten years to keep a.
Car in the Certify pre owned.
Yeah, a couple of manufacturers are doing that, so one hundred percent. It is always good for dealers and automakers to have a healthy used market, for sure.
Let's talk about the new vehicles. As we enter a new year. You're out there looking at the new four Runners, So yep, what do you like? What's exciting?
Well, I will.
Say, having just driven this Forerunner, it is amazing. I forgot how much I love them. I've had two of them in the past, and honestly, talking about budget, I drove the SR five today, the lowest of the trims, and it was fantastic. So I'm excited about that. I'm excited about them coming out. This is I think the sixth generation, and so they don't they don't come out with them too often totally revamped and it's still the same old good fore Runners.
So I'm excited about that.
The back windows still does the back windows still go down.
Not only does it still go down, that but they told me it's on for a permanent it will always be a power back window.
Yes, I love that fantastic. I love that truck. I mean it's I think it's sort of underrated. You know, people don't mention it a lot when you're talking about you know, SUVs, and one of the issues has been that it's chronically underpowered, like they always offer it with that yeah three hundred horsepower V six and I think it's yeah, now it's a four right.
Yeah, they're going up to I think the top line.
I should remember this because they literally just gave us the walk around. But the top line I think.
Is yeah, over four hundred, but it's it's real powerful.
I mean, admittedly I was driving the I was taking the Forerunner into ego mode and it still was, you know, zooming along. And also, you know, you guys might do this. I don't know too many carnerds that do this, but I consistently drive my automatic and manual.
Oh you do.
I have taught my kids.
Yeah, and I've taught my kids how to drive sure automatics and manual because they not only do you need to know how to like if you need to get out of a situation. Quickly you can go down into a lower gear. But also if you lose your brakes, you need to know how to.
Get in a lower gear. And so I love you. As in the manual mode on automatics, I like.
It too, and I like to shift with the stick, not with paddles, so exactly the shifter down next to my right.
On those yet, Aaron.
I think the SR five they said is in the low forties. Okay, yeah, but yeah, so that's exciting.
You know.
I always love seeing a good old vehicle that's been around, you know, and talking about keeping their used car rates around, you know, I mean the foreigners especially to hold their value for so long.
So it's a sweet, sweet use truck.
Yeah exactly. But you know, I'm not an.
Electric vehicle adopter just yet, but I am interested to see some of the new models that are coming out this year. So that's kind of nice to see that the power train is continuing to come into a variety of manufacturers, given Tesla a little bit of a run for their money.
So I'm excited about that for this year. Let's see what else is coming out this year? Are your favorites?
I mean, well, I mean if I talk about the SUVs. I'm thinking about it a lot because I'm I'm currently driving a GMC Yukon to Nally Ultimate.
Okay, jeez, yeah, do I love it?
I mean I was telling Hannah coming home from the airport the other day, my heart just connected with that six point two liters V eight and I kept sending myself voice memos trying to put into words what I was feeling. It was just pure bliss. And the ten speed transmission, I couldn't even feel it changing gears. It was just giving me exactly what I wanted when I wanted. And I love it so much. And it's obviously huge. It's a body on frame truck. There are not many
of those left. You got the Ford Expedition and Nissan Armada and that's pretty much it.
And it's the only one.
But this is the only one of the V eight, right, They've all done away with their V eights. And the only problem I have with it is the thing has It's so luxurious, right, but it has twenty four inch wheels, which is just so stupid because you want to be able to drive over curbs and you're gonna pop a tire as soon as you get anywhere near a bump in that thing because the tires are so low profile, it doesn't make any sense. But I love the VIA.
Yeah yeah, did it fit in your garage?
I didn't attempt to put it in my garage. The GLS fits in our garage Mercedes GLS, which is not quite as big, but yeah, I mean it's just for me. It's another level the body on frame trucks, because you feel like you can really abuse them in an urban environment and you can't with the Mercedes GLS. This suspension on that is shot after a couple of years.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm in the phase now where I have a seventeen and a fourteen year old, so I'm kind of going, do I want another SUV?
I don't really need it anymore. I kind of want a sports car.
Yes, yes, come over to the dark side.
Yeah, the dark side.
You know, I love a wagon. I love a wagon. I'm not gonna lie. There are there are six of course is my dream. But you know, until I can get one of those, uh you know, for a baby, those are just my favorite.
But but yeah, so I do love a wagon. I think we should really normalize.
Those locer there's such a mystery because everybody who works in cars loves a wagon, every block, for every YouTube content creator in fluid, yeah, everyone and auto make me say they can't sell them.
I don't get it.
Yeah, I don't get it either.
If I'm buying an M three, I want it in a wagon, right right? Who would ever choose the sedan when you can get the wagon?
Agree?
Why would you ever buy a minivan? Just get a wagon?
Yeah?
Right, exactly, I know.
But you know, I've I've heard from many van lovers, especially men who love them.
It's like the captaincies. They're all, They're all that's.
What it's about inside them.
Any van also.
Actually met had an experience with a minivan in recent Yeah, I just and you did. Like it was the seat, it's.
A seating position, and yeah, you can kind of move around more inside them than you can in a station wagon. It's not the same as a car, but they're.
Yeah, I get it.
I mean, you couldn't pay me to drive one, but I get it. I can see the appeal. But O, thank you. So yeah, So I'm in the car buying mode right now. So it's kind of interesting in the position that I'm in knowing the cost, the affordability like we're talking about and how expensive these things get and and interest rates and everything, and trying to navigate like, oh, what is it that I want to do? I might even go back to leasing. I know that's crazy.
It's a word.
I think for a lot of people, it's a bad word because you know, we've convinced ourselves that it's it's a way more expensive way to purchase a car. But again, that monthly payment, right, but the monthly payments what most people are shocking by. And you can just simply now that leasing's coming back, you can simply get a more expensive car for less money per month. And with the pace of change of technology, Yes, to me, it just seems to make a lot of sense, right, Yeah.
Absolutely, if you've got a battery, if you're like Hanna and I were talking with in our last podcast with Alex Royd about battery degradation, and I don't know the exact figures, and maybe my fears are a little bit overblown, but I just think I want someone else to own that problem. So if I'm getting a hybrid or god forbid, a fully electric vehicle, and there are some out there that I do like I like the key of EV nine, for.
Example, fantastic.
I would lease that, you know, because then yeah, at the end of the lease, I can get whatever the newest, better thing is. And also I don't have to worry about the possibility that the battery lost fifty percent of Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you know, we have an we have an EV Battery Solutions group with Cocks Automotive, and I will give you some assurances that what we've seen from a degradation perspective, it's so low that the batteries really are integrating very much. So it's really not something to be worried about. Neither is range, of course, but a lot of people still, you know, I think most people's anxiety now, I like to say, is charge or anxiety.
It can't be ranged.
We can go just about as far on an EV as we can on an ice vehicle, and the degradation really is proving not to be that big of an issue. But more importantly, I think the leasing makes sense also because it's just such a new technology. Still, We're going to see such advances that you're going to want to be able to switch out quickly, you know, and we've kind of exhausted the advances that we're making in combustion
power trains, so we need to recognize that. You know, for me, at least, leasing an EV makes sense because of that, because in three years it might just be a very different car.
By the way, on that note, Aaron, we've Hannah and I have been emailing back and forth with a listener who is wondering about buying a slightly used luxury EV. So you know, everyone wants to get like a twenty twenty range Rover, right because then you don't take the initial hit somebody else eats the depreciation. But the worry is, as soon as they're out of warranty, is it going
to become a money pit? And I think it's a valid concern for not just a Range Rover, which obviously they're notorious for that, but also for you know, a Mercedes GLS, a BMW X seven, any.
Of these big SUVs.
Yeah they have they have the expensive air suspension and if something goes wrong with that, you're out five grand, you know, And they're all of these electronic systems are worrying. What do you think about a gently used a luxury suv? What would you.
Choose as far As an ev or just any.
No, any any luxury SUV, you know, any luxury trust but we meant SUV.
I meant yeah SV. Oh that's a good question. I mean, yeah, Range.
Rover, I wouldn't mind. I wouldn't mind one of those for sure. And I agree with you. It's nice to have someone else capture the depreciations that you don't have to.
Gosh, that's you're asking me to pick my favorite baby. I don't know.
I think the question about the range Rover specifically, too, is they do have a certain reputation for being very reliable from that era and just for always being in the shop. And I'm curious is that a earnest earned reputation.
That is a good question.
I don't know that I have any data in my back pocket to tell you.
I haven't looked at.
The range Rover recently all that much, because it is a fairly low volume model for what we look at at Cox Automotive. But uh, you know, I think most cars these days are a heck of a lot stronger and better.
Built than we.
You know, then we function our memory of how vehicles used to be. I mean, even if you think about the fact that when the minute you mention a luxury, especially perhaps a German luxury, you know, everyone's like, oh, I'd love to have one, but the expense of fixing it, you know. And it's like, are we saying that because we've been conditioned to remember that it was always so expensive to bias?
I think it is. I think it's people who don't actually own and know, and they just repeat right, what the popular wisdom is, which is not actually accurate.
Right exactly exactly, you know, And the warranties are lasting so much longer, and there are plenty of you know, I mean not to give a little boost to the F and I office, but there are plenty of you know, products that you can purchase if you're so.
Worried about the quality of the vehicle, that aren't.
Terribly expensive and would ensure you against any of that kind of stuff happening. And again, with regulation and recalls and things like that, a lot of times the manufacturers.
Can be put on the.
Spot to have to pay for the specific repairs or recalls that happen. So I don't know, I don't know that it's a bad idea. Used is always going to be a good choice.
I think it's funny because because all right, I giggle a little because Doug DeMuro bought the previous generation range Rover, the L I think three twenty two, and he got a bumper to bumper warranty from CarMax back in the day, remember, and like then everything went wrong with his truck and CarMax ended up paying out like fifty or sixty grand.
I like the just to point out that I like the I think it's the L four h five generation of range Rover, which is the just until twenty twenty one, because it's the last generation with the supercharged five Leader that that Jaguar Landrover is famous for. And the new ones look a little too spacey for me. And they have a turbocharged four point four Leader BMW motor, which just isn't in the spirit of it.
Yeah, yeah, I don't have a problem I mean with the German motor in a British vehicle, to be quite honest, I feel like that would be an upgrade, right, Eric, what do you think?
I don't know that I have a problem with that either. I mean, if you you know I'm a big racing fan.
If you look over to F one and the pinnacle of racing to see, you know, which you know a lot of people who don't know about racing, they don't recognize that.
Oh well, the.
Ferraris what's powering the haus you know, or the Mercedes is what's powering the Williams. And yeah, you know there's I don't have a problem with people leveraging better power units if that's what you if that's what you need to make the car where it needs to go.
Well, remember when BMW bought Earls Royce, they swapped out the six and three quarter lead motor and and and even Bentley for a while had like the rnage red label and green label. Remember they put a BMW motor in those and.
The Anage is as you know, I think highly desirable.
Me too, but I would rather have one with the six point seventy five liter V eight than the BMW power plant.
You guys know you're stuff impressed. Hey, flying above my head?
Well, well you mentioned racing, and I was on the radio show with Tom Keen earlier this week. He put me on the spot and asked me what I thought Lewis Hamilton was going to do with with Ferrari. I have no clue because I watched Motor GP.
I'm loving all of the images they've released this week of Lewis and a double breasted, amazing suit at the home of Ferrari looking like a boss.
I mean, yeah, I think he's gonna I think he's going to do well. I think he's going to go out on top.
Why not?
It seems so fitting as this top of his career to cap it to me, it just seems very fitting and to be honest, and I'm not going to air anyone out specifically, but I had, you know, on certain Ferrari press launches, I've like, you know, asked the guys handling the cars, Hey, what do you think of Hamilton joining? And they, like, honestly, some of them were turning up their nose a little bit, saying he's old, it's a PR stunt whatever, But hey, car doesn't know how old you are.
He's still precisely and were they watching the twenty twenty fourth season?
Are you kidding me? Like, Alonzo's even older and.
He's still driving like a bat out of hell with amazing racecrafts.
Shut up, people, come on back, give the guy a t's my world champion.
I'm not sure he's a child too. He's only like forty years old.
Yeah right, I know that's crazy.
Yeah, that's a kid.
I mean it is a kid. For those of us over our fifties, you know, that's a kid.
I have a question for you, Matt. Yes, would you drink Lamborghini coffee?
Yeah?
Sure, Lavataza and Lamborghini have just come out with a Lamborghini themed coffee blend.
Definitely, I would get my motor running.
I'm kind of like, I don't know if I'm imagining.
Like motor oil.
Yeah exactly, I don't know if the coffee and Lamborghini.
Is I want it to taste a little bit like I feel like a garage.
I feel like it's going to I mean, it'd be kind of a cool gift.
Are you a coffee drinker? I have?
I have a coffee a day. I have one in the morning.
Yeah.
See, I never drink no, I will. I will only well, let's say I don't like the way it makes me feel for the most part, but I will have a latte, you know, something weak with a lot of milk.
When I say coffee, I really do mean most of the time a latte. I'm using coffee colloquially.
I have gone to I used to go to, like when Italy was hosting the G twenty. I would go there in my other job and got hooked on drinking the Espress there. I love an Espress, but it just really got me wired. Oh yeah, I know.
I know I can feel.
I show that I can.
Yeah, there's all fuel you for quite a.
While, you know, I stay away from that, but I would definitely try one if it was from because Lamborghini is one of my all time favorite brands. I asked, I love Lamborghini.
Yeah, maybe someone needs to send you a pouch of it.
Well, I would pay for it myself as a journalistic integrity.
No, I meant me. Yeah, that was That was a memo to myself. And speaking of memo, I would like to hear you play your voice memos that you took for yourself.
Okay, So I so I didn't Actually they weren't voice memos. What I did is I said, hey, Siri, write me a note. So you know Apple iPhones have notes, yes, and I will. I mean, I was just okay, this car is an absolute pleasure to drive. The six point two liters V just provides effortless power combined with this transmission, you honestly don't even notice it shifting, and it gives you everything you need when you need it. Obviously, it's
not a sports car. It's a very large truck, and there are very few other vehicles that are this big on the road. This only compares really with the Vord Expedition on our model. Blah blah. I was kind of like writing myself notes, yes, but it really the vibes, the warmth of the engine. I kept thinking about what Alex Roy said about how it kind of matches your heartbeat. It just can't be replicated by a V six. All of these manufacturers, most notably well for me as a
fan of the Ford Motor Company. You know they've gone away from their six point two liters V eight. They used to have that in the Raptor. Now they have the eco boost in it, and it just it can never be as good they I'm sure they're doing it to be better for the planet, and I applaud that, or to meet regulations, and I understand that, but it's just not something that I would want to spend my money on, even in the high output form like the
the Bronco raptor. It's a great moment, like the power delivery is awesome, and it also you're never lacking, but it doesn't give you the same feeling of luxury, you.
Know, no, no, But but I'm okay with that, honestly. I mean, I'm all about the right tool for the job. And you can't expect luxury from a non luxury vehicle. And that's not a value judgment. That's just a horse of a different.
Color, Yeah for sure. But so if when I'm driving home on an empty highway in the middle of the night, you know, listening to a little dead and Cornell, I just want that V eight there. You know, I'm not flying, I'm not in a race, but I just want that.
You're a simple man power come.
On and that fullness, you know, just to make my chest feel good.
I have no comeback to that other than I wish that for you. I do really wish that for you. Met It's so great, sounds like a great happy place for you.
Yeah. And this truck, by the way, it is I keep trying to think of. On the one hand, there's a lot of other stuff you could buy for less, because how much does it cost over one hundred thousand dollars, of course, And I guess you know, there are many things that are more expensive if you buy a range Rover, for example, you're gonna pay more if you buy a fully loaded you know, Cayenne Turbo or even the GTS that you drove. I would guess it was more option to the way it was. But then there are a
lot of you know, a bmw X five. It's not the same thing, right, it's so much smaller, but it is an suv and it's luxury. You can get it for less a Mercedes GLS or you know, even up there, it's it's less.
Prices are so weird these days.
It is weird. But these these body on frame trucks that are SUVs, they're essentially pick up trucks that are you know, covered in the back. They're so expensive. I know, even the starting price is eighty thousand for the Yukon, maybe seventy for the Tahoe. I just don't know when did we get this?
Do you guess? The automaker with the highest average price per vehicle in twenty twenty four, and this is coming from Erin from Erin data.
Let's see highest average price per vehicle.
Not including exotics like Lamborghini.
Ferrari, not including Rolls Royce.
Not including Rolls Royce, not including Bugatti.
Uh well, if it's if Porsche is allowed, I would choose Porsche.
Yes, yeah, you're right, ding ding ding. Apparently their their average transaction price per vehicle is one hundred and fifteen four hundred and seven dollars. Do you want to know the second highest?
By the way, I can figure a carera tee and I don't get close to that low, So I understand totally right. Even even for the careerra tea, I'm always ending up at like one, which is crazy.
She's just crazy because the t is supposed to be sort of the thinking man's n affordable one exactly that you don't have to get all of the other stuff that you don't actually need. Yeah, I know that is wild.
What did you What was your other question?
Do you want to know the second?
Oh?
The second highest?
Ummm it's I was surprised by this one, actually, but we've mentioned it on this show. We've mentioned this brand.
Is it Mercedes? No, BMW, Nope? What is it out?
Land Rover? It's land Rover. Oh, isn't that interesting?
That's crazy.
I know.
Land Rover is also over one hundred thousand dollars averaged per vehicle. It's at one hundred and two thousand, seven and three dollars.
I guess that's because they don't have many lower prices.
I think that is. It's all SUVs. They're all big, they're all heavy, they all have a bunch.
Of there's no mix. Like even Porsche. You can get at the box Star or that cam.
In and BMW. You know, you can get some true a lot and that pulls their number down.
You can get a ton of lower price BMW's. And that's the same for Mercedes. Yeah. For a land Rover you can only get basically after the discovery you get like a range Rover Sport and a range Rover.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, Defender, I always.
Forget it.
Completely. Yeah, I know, isn't that wild? I mean, this is why I in my own personal life, I I was today, I drove a three thousand dollars Rolls Royce.
To work, three thousand dollars.
Drive plus a trade.
Yeah, well plus a trade.
Okay, that's the fine, Prince. It was three thousand plus a minor trade. But you know, yeah, I mean I was very happy.
You are very brave and have also been very lucky when it comes to buying, you know, classic cars and not having massive repair bills.
I was thinking yesterday, I don't need to gamble. I drive an old card.
And you haven't had You've never had, like all of a sudden, a ten thousand dollars bill for that car.
Not a ten thousand no, no, no, But.
Is it a nineteen seventy one?
The one today is eighty three.
Okay, you have multiple rolls choices.
Yeah, but seventy five. Yeah, this is the other other one. I should stop talking now because I sound really snobby, but these are not expensive cars.
No, it's awesome. I mean crops respect, but.
Yeah it is. It is a little bit of a gamble for sure. You know, we've talked about it before. Sometimes you think why am I doing this? But it's fun and.
It's also it's not as much of a gamble as it turns into when you get a late eighties into the nineties.
Yeah, you know, to get out of a car from the seventies and into a car from the eighties, depending on the brand, is a world of difference. And the seventies to me at least in Rolls Royce years, feels very closely connected to the sixties. The minute you get into something in the eighties, it feels very modern compared to the others, and.
It can be much more expensive to repair.
Yeah, I still want a Corniche or a Camarge, and those are more expensive. They're out of my price range and they're later models.
So yeah, all right, what do you got coming up? Anything? Anything good?
No? What? No? I have nothing good? Everything is everything has been delayed, postponed or canceled because of the fire.
Ah.
Yes, so you know, I do have an electromiccon electric Macon coming. I do have an electric escalade coming. Still got that vanquished coming, But they've all been kicked down the road a little bit because we are still sort of digging ourselves out of fire stuff, which is right and completely understandable. But I know you're going to Indonesia.
I have an eighteen hour flight to Singapore and then from there to Jakarta, from there to Sarong and then I take a boat about five hours towards Papua New Guinea. Yeah, it's a long trip.
Hey, how can you explain the genesis of this trip?
So I am going to Raja Ampat, which is in between Indonesia and Papua New Guinea, and it's probably the best diving in the world. And I've been there already many times with my wife. In fact, we got engaged there and it's just our favorite place to go. But it takes forever to get there.
Yeah, that's very dedicated.
Yeah, and so you can make a choice like, well, first off, which direction you're gonna fly, and then break up the trip a little bit to make it more bearable. So last a year we went via Tokyo and we stopped in Tokyo for a couple of days to recuperate. And this fun. This year, I'm gonna go to Singapore and we're gonna hang out there for a couple of days before we go on to ind Ani show. But right now I'm looking at an eighteen hour flight, like NonStop, and that's like what nine movies?
What's your coping mechanism for an eighteen hour flight?
I mean, I don't really have a coping mechanism. I've never been on an eighteen hour flight before me neither.
The farthest I've gone as Cape Town and that's and from from Paris that's a long one, but that's not eighteen hours.
I don't know. I guess I'm just gonna I bought The Power Broker, which is a very long book, and I'm gonna download a bunch of movies. I guess I'll have internet access.
So now I didn't realize you were a your scuba diver. Yes, well we have that in common too. I love Patty Certified.
I love it.
Are you're not traveling with equipment.
Are you?
Yeah? Bring all my gear with me, not the tanks. I just I want my own BCD so that I am familiar with it. And you know, I'm an odd shape. I'm very long and lanky, so I won't fit into a wet suit whatever they no matter how big a selection they have. Yeah. I mean I don't need much of a wetsuit because it's going to be very warm water. But yeah, I like to be familiar with my own gear. You know, my wife doesn't, so she, you know, with other than wetsuits. She she takes their stuff.
But yeah, I get it.
It's an amazing place. It's called Missoul m I S O O L and I highly recommend it. But they're booked out like.
Years this is the name of the hotel, the resort.
So there were a couple of very cool, like punk rock kids on a live aboard in the nineties who were diving in Rajan Pot in the time. The coral was getting bleached out and they found a bunch of shark fins on the beach and they were super bummed about the sort of state of the sea there and came up with an idea too, and it was fished, you know, almost two extinction. Came up with an idea to start, you know, kind of a luxury resort and use the proceeds from that to basically buy off the
local fishermen. And so they said, hey, we'll split you know, the revenue with the local communities there. There are not many people that live in that area and if you agree not to fish. So now they have like a twelve hundred square mile no kill zone. All the life has come back. I mean tons of mantas, I mean fifteen twenty foot wingspans and they're all just happy to swim along with you. A lot of reef sharks, a ton of colors. I mean, it's like being at a
grateful dead show in the best wave possible. Yeah, it really does. And you know Jerry was a big diver as well.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, was he really with special he had a beard.
Yeah, he could get the mask over.
Kind of hard to create a seal, but yeah, you know.
That's where my mind goes. Wow, I didn't know.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
Oh, that'll be really lovely. Well, I hope you have fun, and I hope you can endure the flight because it seems like it'll be worth it at the end when you get there.
Yeah, no, I'll be okay. Yeah, it's it's a legitimately first world problem, isn't it.
Yeah it is. No one's feeling that bad for you.
No, all right, cool. Well, I guess I'll see you back here, same time, same place. Can't wait, February sixth.
I cannot wait. I'll see you in New York.
Actually awesome. That's going to be great.
I can't wait. The best city in the world.
I'm Matt Miller, and
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg