Year-End Fiscal Cliffs Approaching

dot com. If you can also listen to a radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. There is a lot going on talk about a self testing kit for home that happening in the United States. Over in Europe, though, you did see a protest over Germany strategy to quell the virus turning violent. So yeah, it's really rough out there and this is

a place environment we all know far too well. Back with us to see what she is seeing and concerned about is a Lissa rap CEO of the healthcare solutions company Surgical Solutions. She is with us on the phone from Deerfield, Illinois. Um, Alissa, good to have you here. How are you And when you see these headlines, uh, you're out there in the Midwest. I mean, that's really been a tough spot. It has, Caroline, thanks for having

me back being a rise and surge across the country. Candidly, are incidences of exposure or even positivity in our own company amongst our tuner and fifty employees across nine states and thirty five hospitals is pretty much even. We've seen additional you know, exposure or positivity in New York, Kinnesseed, Texas, Kentucky, and it is obviously back. I'm not an epidemiologist, as you know, so I know that the viral load of the virus changes over time and it makes it easier

to transmit. So hopefully people who are getting this version of this horrible COVID nineteen flu are not gonna be as sick if they're healthy and young. But it is still it is back that the numbers are real. We're seeing it across the country well, and it's interesting. We just talked a story. We just talked about a story Charlie Pellet and I about how COVID is really, you know, ravaging those long term care centers and we know that's

where the elderly population is. We understand those numbers, but I've just talking to it individual here at Bloomberg and uh talked about her nephew succumbing to the virus. So we do understand that as much as we know some of COVID nineteen is predictable, we also know that there are outliers and we don't know still a lot about this virus. Having said that, the vaccine and the developments we've had over the last week and a half from Fiser and from Maderna, what's your takeaway there? I find

it incredibly encouraging. I think the vaccines are going to be game changers, needless to say. And the only real question of my mind as a health care service provider is a question around distributions. They need to be stored between UH fifty and hundred blow fahrenheit. Then obviously we need the military and FedEx and UPS working together on a on a combined distribution strategy that leverages single sites that have these massive freezers as well as mobile sites.

And I think creativity and real genius in terms of logistics and planning is going to be what needs to happen between now and say April May June, when we get to true general pop relation roll out of the virus.

But for frontline healthcare workers, I'm still pretty bullish and optimistic because if those vaccines can start happening in our major metropolis and major sites in December, the second shot in January, whether it's the Visor Maderna or any other vaccine, that means that if we can get first responders and frontline healthcare workers vaccinated, then the most at risk, then the then the rollout further. There should be an abatement of the spread and it should meet it provides some

relief to our healthcare system. Well, and you've got to be thinking unless about your workers specifically, right and making sure that they are frontline workers. Uh, and they need to have access to this vaccine. Um. You know, I'm curious how you're approaching it. Would you make sure that they are among the first to get it? Are your

workers comfortable getting it? And are you concerned about having access ultimately to the vaccine as we kind of try and figure out the distribution and logistics problems of getting the vaccine out a great Those are all great questions. I feel confident in our frontline healthcare workers ability to get access to the vaccine because we follow each hospital's protocol for all things clinical. When we work with our hospital partners, and if their frontline teams are going to

be asked to vaccinate, ours will too. And so if it's being provided to hospitals across the country for their frontline workers, I am hopeful and confident we will get that access. And I think that the first twenty million UH doses of the vaccine seemed pretty locked and loaded for December. So again, if we can make sure that that happens and nothing stops it, I think the frontline and first responder should be in good, good shape. It's really that next wave of rollout, Carol, that I personally

am curious about. Once our frontline healthcare workers are taken care of, and the countries, after the prioritization for the for the elderly and the most at risk, how then do we ensure that mass distribution happens. I'm confident by the spring will have mass production of vaccine. Mass distribution becomes a bigger challenge. Yeah, listen, I think about that too, in terms of it getting out, and you know, we've been done a lot of reporting about that's kind of

our next big headache. And because you know, countries have relationships and deals with various UM drug makers and so so you really do wonder, you know, what kind of horse trading might ultimately be going, you know, going on. And that kind of terrifies me, especially when I think about people who really need it. When I think about developing markets, I mean, it's really going to be, I think,

a logistics nightmare. Globally, it's going to be challenging. And remember, the regular food vaccine can be stored at thirty seven degrees terrified and below, and and even that sometimes poses challenges, and this hundred degree below is a real thing. But I know that the biggest sites of points of distribution

are already shoring up for those capabilities. I'm confident that in our country specifically, the ingenuity around distributional logistics means that we should be able to come up with a mobile UM mechanism for distributing even this very unusually cold vaccine. So I'm hopeful. I think that we'll see a lot of opening up come next summer. So listen, I know we've talked about schools. I know last time around we talked about UM and I think you you said that

you don't think children are super spreaders. Because we were talking about schools reopening. I have to say, you know, it's interesting, I'm getting a lot of emails from around the newsroom about city looks New York City schools are closing. I actually think cities are being smart that as soon as they start to see numbers go up, UH in

certainly just around the country. As soon as they start to see those numbers go up, I mean, New York remembers how bad it was, and I think they quickly moved to say we gotta we gotta pull back, and that's how we hopefully can maybe prevent this from becoming New York City back in March, April and May. Yeah. There.

You know, there are two different questions, right Carol. One is our children super spreaders, and there's an abundance of data, and you've had many people on your show that have talked about how they may or may not be and right, we aren't. But there are other stakeholders. And stakeholders are teachers and the elderly family members of UH children in

schools who are living in multigenerational, generational households. So I think it's the answer to whether to keep them open or closes is a function from whose stakeholders eyes you're looking, And I think that it's likely, um and probable that many public schools will end up closing post Thanksgiving, pre winter break quote unquote, or even right after winter break, because, as we discussed earlier, this vaccine access is likely going

to be healthcare workers and first responders first, and then hopefully in the second wave as soon as January, even teachers and others who we consider a central workers. So I'm hopeful that once teachers are have access more broadly to the vaccine, then they'll be even greater comfort with keeping the schools open. But I think it's likely that to continue to quote flatten the curve. You can agree or disagree, but I think it's likely that schools will

close for some portion of winter. Yeah, And I guess what I was kind of saying is right. I think I agree with you because just my own experience with my daughter in school, like the schools have been. I feel, like knock on wood, we're not necesarily talking about colleges and universities. They have had their own strug as um, but I think at large things have actually gone gone

fairly well. And I guess what I'm is interesting, is that you're seeing, whether it's the West coast, whether it's here, major cities who saw it so badly in the springtime, Like we remember this, It wasn't that long ago, right, and we don't want to go back to it, so that you start to as soon as you start to see those numbers go up, you kind of rain things in just as hopefully slow it down and more importantly hopefully to stop it from spiking once again into that

kind of out of control area. Yeah, and I think that it's also a function of how things have been managed. Right, If we're in a hybrid learning environment in our public school district here in the suburbs of Chicago, and you know, all the children have plexiglass shields, everyone's mass or classrooms eight students or less. We we certainly may end up in a virtual learning mode for a portion of winter,

just like most public schools. But none of the transmission in our our suburban school district has happened within the schools. It's happened from people bringing it in from the outside. So that is I think many parents great comfort at schools are safe, kids are safe in schools. It's the community spread is going to be what it is. But again I stand by my earlier claim that I don't personally believe from the data i've read that children under

ten are super spreaders by and large themselves. But I understand when taking into account multiple stakeholder groups why schools may choose and districts public districts may choose to close for a portion of winter until these vaccines are more

widely disseminated. Right, Well said, hey, listen, Um, I want to go back to something you said to listen because I think it's really important and we've only got about a minute or so left here about you said, logistically, we're gonna need military and partnership with fed X. People have been saying since March April that we are at war, it's a health war, and we need kind of a military you know, a military aspect and reaction to it, if you will, and we really kind of haven't gotten that.

Do you think a new administration will move in that direction? I think that it's likely that a new administration would be willing to leverage all tools at its disposal, including the US military, to ensure the broadest dissemination of this vaccine as quickly as possible. And I also believe that our US military is probably uniquely qualified to provide support to commercial parties like that X and ups in that way. So I really hope for a public private partnership in

terms of distribution of the vaccine. I think it gives us the greatest probability of the greatest dissemination the fast. If we don't get that, what what what what? Then? Just quickly, I'm not thinking about again. I'm thinking positively, Carol, We're gonna get it down so we can have more normal lives by next time. Uh hallelujah. I'm off I'm an optimist too, and I'd like to get back to a more normal life. Um, Alyssa, thank you so much

for finding time once again for us. Alissa rap she is chief executive officer of Surgical Solutions, joining us on the phone from Deerfield, Illinois, and again uh, watching those virus headlines, but optimistic about the vaccine and ultimately, if we do it right in terms of how we get it out logistically and the distribution, we can move much closer and much uh faster to a more normal life.

So that's what we're kind of all hoping for this is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week and the cover story this week, And I gotta say, I don't know if I can say this, Jill Weber. Can I just say I got a peek at the cover art you did last night. I have to say it truly encapsulates the

essence of this story. Yeah, it's a fun one. Um. And this is one that, um, I think we were we we've been interested in for a while because looks like the staff of Business Week has a lot of cats and dogs at home. Um, And there have been acquisitions that were made during the pandemic. And if you have a dog and go to a dog park like I do, you also recognize that there were many, many, many more dogs in this neighborhood than there were before

the pandemic. And one of the big beneficiar areas of this has been Chewy, the online pet retailer that does pet deliveries. And that's what our stories about, all right. So of course, Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Webber, sorry I jumped the gun there, but I wanted to bring

you in because I love the cover. Uh, and let's also bring in Bloomberg News Wealth for Porto, Andrew's mail in reporting for Business Week and on the phone from Orlando, Florida, Joel on the phone from the remote access from Brooklyn, it is and I gotta say, Joel, it's one of those things in the shutdown that as I would walk my dog Scout around the very quiet neighborhood, I would see boxes of things and I often saw Chewy boxes on the curb. Yeah, and you know they're coming to

our house. To um. It's actually in one of our story meetings that turns out that you know, there's a lot of co op apartments in New York City that aren't supposed to have pets, and Chewy Boxes are outing them because it's like, oh, look delivery exactly. UM. So the story of Chewi though, I think it's it's one of these amazing ones because you know, the company has

been around for for nine years. UH started basically by a couple of guys who just realized they were going to get into the jewelry business and then realized, wait a second, there could be a bigger opportunity and pets, and they basically scrapped it out for nine years and in the process of that sort of faded from the company and the company now has a has a new CEO. And the story sort of starts with Andrews crunching some

numbers and realizing that he's actually incredibly highly compensated. How how highly compensated is Andres about a hundred eight million team. That's what brought me onto to this story. I am, we ran our highest paid CEOs list this summer and sume it's sing. Made a d eight million last year. And I turned to my editor and said, who in the world assume it'sing? And it turns out to see the CEO of Chewy And that's yeah, that's where it all started, right, And it's kind of like, what is

to I have to say. We have a market guest who comes on and every time she's like, by Chewy, by Chewy, by Chewi. I mean, this is a business, you know, and you put it in the story and there's that it's very much kind of akin to Amazon in its early days. Yeah, it really is. It's it's

what sets it apart from Amazon. Amazon was a model for much of the the quickness, the ease, and the pricing, but will really sets to a part is the fact that you actually have a customer service number to call, and if you call it, there's a person that responds to you within six seconds and it's willing to talk to you four hours. If that's what you feel like about your pet, about pet food, about the fact that you know anything, I've heard stories of customer service agains.

You have literally been on the phone for several hours with with pet owners that call in. One of the things, Carol, that I think is really interesting about the businesses. You know, Amazon when it started, it had that one area of expertise that it just nailed, which was books. It's like, how do we bring as many books as we possibly can online and do um e commerce as a as

a bookstore right right? And I think we actually kind of like it's almost like they surveyed the landscape and said, what's the thing that we could have recurring payments with that Amazon hasn't thought to do yet, and how do we figure out what that is and then do it at warp speed effectively? And they recognize that pets, So this thing, it's the number in the story, nine billion dollars a year being spent by Americans on pets. If you could get one slice of that, it's a great business.

And what they figured out was that there's a lot of things that you can do that are recurring payments, whether it's dog food deliveries or medications, and all of those things are just cruise controlled. That's a subscription revenue model, and it has just allowed them to go sort of warp speed. And they were on a pretty good trajectory before the pandemic, and then the pandemic really played to it. And so Andrews tell us about what they how how

they've really capital capitalized on everything this year. Yeah, they've already in the first two quarters they added more customers than in all of the prior fiscal years, and they're on track to finally turned EBIT down positive this year. And they are also on track to hit roughly seven billion dollars of revenue from if I don't misremember, around four point nine. So it's it's really super charged them

this year. And they were sort of kind of like Peloton, just perfectly in position to take advantage of the coronavirus. We've been buying our scout, she's a little Irish terrier man. She's been getting toys, you know, and we we've got a subscription thing that we do every month too, and it's like, yep, we just we don't even think twice about it. We're like, it's essential. It's kind of crazy.

So wait a minute, though, we said they were like kind of Amazon right in many ways, and it sounds like there are two also like Amazon for a long time. They're not profitable, not yet. And you know, that's a story that is not too unfamiliar these days, that you set assign profitability and instead focus on growing very quickly.

And that's what they did, and founder Ryan Cohen and his team they actually ripped the page out of Amazon's playbook and said, we're going to plow every dollar or free cash flow that we get into marketing and customer acquisition. And but he points out in the story that at any point they could have turned off that marketings pigots, and the company would have been profitable even back in So it's really about you know, running and getting scale um as long as you can, as long as your

careful ways allows you to do that. And that's what they that's what they've done, and that's why they're so big today. And and actually I love it because the CEO brought this up when when you guys kind of put it to him, is this this fly wheel? Um, this this idea that it's a vaunted when that Amazon's really excelled is sort of like, once you can start spinning off cash, it feeds all the other aspirations that

you that you have. What did he have to say about his flywheel, Well, they essentially saying that it's I mean, it's a very surty model. As long as you have as long as you're not burning too much cash, then then that's something that you can keep up. And as long as you keep acquiring customers at a fast enough clip,

then then that fly will keeps up. And thanks to shoot, Chewi's focused on autoship and the fact that people have to return to them every once in a while to buy cat litter and food and and so on, and and you can put that on automation. Um, that really helps to underwrite this whole model and it works anders really quickly. So Smit saying, the CEO of chewies up there with Elon Musk Apples, Tim Cook, some other well

known CEOs as among the highest paid. Does he deserve to be there considering what he's done at the company and just got about thirty seconds. Well, I think if you're if you bought you right after the I p oh, and you still hold it now, I'm sure you're very happy regardless of how much he got paid. Um. We spoke to some former employees who pointed out that the company with an excellent shape already when he took over. Interesting kind of feel kind of feel bummed out for

the two founders though. Man Um, it's a great, great read, And I told you you've got to check out the cover because I think I'm gonna go home and frame it because it's just adorable. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so this story definitely caught my attention. I was reading in pretty early this morning on my way into one Lexington

here at Bloomberg headquarters. It's a top story in my view at this hour, since as we watch closely COVID nineteens impact on our economy and its recovery, which has been so well described I think by Peter atwater over at William Mary as the K shaped recovery, which illustrates some Americans, they have been largely untouched by the pandemic. For others, the lower leg of the k it has

been catastrophic. And maybe there's some folks in between that as some of the relief efforts start to come undone and stop, they're going to be in a tough way. This story is among the most read on the Bloomberg. It is about the year end fis school clifs that are approaching for millions of Americans. Let's get into a three picker. She's US economy reporter at Bloomberg and she is joining us on the phone in New York City. Read. Um,

this is an important story. I really do think everybody has to stop listen because if we're worried about kind of where we are because of COVID, if we're worried about what's going to happen in the economy, especially with a lack of stimulus, you really lay it out what's at risk. So first of all, give us the big picture. Yeah, of course, and thank you for so much for having

me on to talk about this story. Sure, um, so I guess the big The big picture of this is that there is a wide range of programs that are scheduled to expire at the end of the year, and they range everything from UM to federal Unemployment Insurance Plan programs, to a national addiction moratorium to a freeze on student loans.

And you know, as you were talking about this case shaped recovery, that the people that are really going to feel the brunt of the pain from these acts rations are really those who are currently still out of work. And UM these programs, you know, they have a wide range of youth, but I would say the biggest impact is definitely going to be from the expiration of those two unemployment insurance programs. Twelve million people, you say, right,

we'd roughly twelve million, yes. So the Century Foundation UM put out a report this morning where they estimated it would be about twelve million people that would be cut off from their unemployment insurance on December twenty six. And for these people, this has been an extraordinary lifeline during

the pandemic. And it's it's two parts. There's the folks that you know, prior to now wouldn't typically be eligible for PEN for jobless benefits, and those are the people who are on a program called Pandemic Unemployment Assistant PUA,

so that's your gig workers, your self employed workers. UM. And and they have gotten these programs at these you know, a check each week that has helped support them during this this time where you know a lot of people aren't taking ubers and a lot of these jobs don't have the same kind of demand UM that they normally would UM. And then the other program is very similar

to what we've seen in past recessions. UM. It's called p e u C for short, but essentially it's an extension of jobless benefits for those who have exhausted their regular state benefits. So we saw this in the two thousand and seven to two thousand and nine recession as well. UM. But whether people have used up the full number of weeks that they have or not, unless Congress acts it's it's set to expire at the end of December as well. Read and I want to go to some of the

other UM. You know, specific programs that you say you know will come to an end and that really put a lot of Americans at risk. But the one thing I like about your story is, Yep, you go through these you lay at the numbers, you lay at the research, but you also talked to America and what it means. Like,

tell me about Larry Long of Willow Grow, Pennsylvania. Yeah, of course, And and I'd like to say that there were more people that UM first space purposes me couldn't fit them into the story, but Larry was someone that really stuck out to me. UM. I I tried with him, and he's one of UM. He's receiving the t U A that UM that unemployment assistance for for those aren't who aren't typically eligible. But UM he is a sixty three year old black man UM in a town that's

a little bit outside of Philadelphia. And before the pandemic he made his income by basically hoping to plan charity events and UM corporate parties. And as you can imagine, as soon as pan as the pandemic hit, he said that for a couple of weeks he was just receiving cancelation email after cancelation email and UM, so since then

he has been getting these pandemic unemployment assistance payments. And for the summer it worked out okay because UM the Cares Act, which was the main fiscal relief bill that was passed back in March, UM provided this extra six dollars a week and unemployment assistance, and when he had that extra six hundred dollars, he was able to make it work. Um. But as soon as those six hundred dollar payments ended and expired at the end of July,

the bills have just been piling up. Um. So when I was talking to him about what I mean, what day to day looks like him for right now, he you know, said that with the amount that he's getting, he's really just trying to put food on the table. Um. And he's has negotiated with his his landlord to try to make an agreement payment. But um, he's he's really nervous about this, the culmination of running out of anyway, but also of the eviction more national eviction moratorium expiring

at the end of the year as well. Right, you said, he's he's worried about losing his home and he's also worried he's you know, as you write in your story, he's an older black man with a touch of diabetes. So he's scared to death just about survival. Hey just quickly just got about thirty or forty seconds here on the tenant evictions. What do we need to know about that? Yes,

so on the evictions front UM. This is basically it has been a national um, a national policy to keep people in their homes and prevent landlords from evicting their tenants when they couldn't fully pay UM. And that has been a saving grace for a lot of people. UM. But the problem now now, of course, is that eviction moratorium is UM set to expire at the end of

the year. So people are heading into January, perhaps with several months behind of of not having fully paid their rent or not have paid their rent at all UM and could very much base eviction because the fact that yeah, their bills to pay as well. Yeah. Yeah, We've talked about that with a lot of folks in the real

estate industry. The problem is, you know, you know, I think about December thirty one, right, people are often like, oh, a new year, you know, thinking about what's to come promising, and then for many that's a deadline that could be really really tough. UM. I'm gonna put your story out on Twitter because you go into all the programs and all the specifics. So thank you so much. Read really

appreciate you bringing it to us. Read pick it. She's US Economy reporter Epploomberg News on the phone from New York broad mac Journal. But you let me drive, no, no, no, d please l I want to drive. Strive the questions, yeahs the drive of the globes well dry us down radios.

It is time for the drive to the close back with us as Craig Hodges, CEO and portfolio manager of the Hodges Funds one point five billion dollars in assets under management, based in Dallas, and joining us on the phone from there on a day Wednesday where we've got stocks pretty much hovering out their loads of the sessions who are down about, as Charlie mentioned, down about nine tens of a percent on the Dow Jones Industrial Average down two hundred seventy nine points, SMP five also down

almost nine tenths of a percent at thirty five seventy eight, and the NASAC just down about half percent, down sixty five points. So, Craig Hodges, nice to have you here. How are you doing? I know there's been some rough COVID numbers out in Dallas. I've got a bunch of family out in Texas. How are you doing? Yeah? Doing well. We we know we've been pretty fortunate not to get hit too hard, and I think I think it's you know, fairly under control here. But but the numbers you see

do scare you. So you you have to continue to take to take heed if you will, Yeah, exactly, Well how do you have to What does it mean for investors or they have to take heed as well? You know, I think that they do. Um, we've we've had an

interesting situation. You know, we manage money, and we had a lot of individual accounts, probably over six hundred and I think throughout the industry what you saw around the election time, starting at about uh September, as people raise a pretty good cash position in their accounts, not to predict what would happen, but just because of the volatility and the uncertainty. Other well, there wasn't hardly any volatility,

and the market has continued to move up. So I believe what's happened since the election, even though it's even though it's uh, you know, hasn't been finalized, although everyone knows what will happen, um, is that people are putting that money back to work. So I think that's what's driven the market here in the last you know, month or so. That being said, I think it's probably a little ahead of itself. Um. I did a I did a conference call with a bunch of great money managers

last night, and the optimism was flowing. And anytime you see that makes me want to run for the exactly exactly, So I don't look for anything, you know, terrible, but I think the market could be a little ahead of itself. Why are money managers so enthusiastic? What were they saying

on that call? Well, there's been so much disruption in there in the marketplace, and there's been the stocks that have done fantastic this last year and a half, and there's been stocks that have done horribly, and you're starting to see the wall. Yeah, and and the and the ones that have lagged that still have good, good business opportunities are really starting to perform. So I think, and and and that's what a lot of these people, and not everyone is in the you know, the fang and

the top you know six stocks that have driven everything. Um, there's another market out there that's kind of been the have knots if you will, and so um, and that's what that's what we're doing here at Hodes Funds and Hodges Capital because there's a just a bevy of stocks that have not participated that you're starting to see all of a sudden get some breath and start to move.

How frustrated though, are you guys to be in the small cap space and I know they're starting to have their day a little bit, but I'm looking at your Hodges small cap. Fine, you're up about three and a half percent. Uh, it's been a struggle. It has been

a struggle for you know, going on three years. And although I will say this, um I noticed that the small cap performance the Russell two thousand, one of their of the stocks in the Russell two thousand are above their two day moving average on the chart and being very technically you know, a positive. That's the most since two thousand and thirteen. So it really looks like things are starting to turn. And you know, these things go in cycles, and it's very it's very understandable why the

large cap you know, stocks have moved so well. It's been basically the E T F craze that's driven a lot of that. But there will be a time and place for small caps and we really and and they've had really nice help performance for i'd say about the past two months or so. All right, interesting, um, so talk to us about some of the names, because my underest in is among the major themes that you are interested in. It's kind of de urbanization and business is

related to that. What specifically are you talking about. You're talking about the exodus from from cities. Yeah, you're seeing because you believe that's really gonna stick. Oh my gosh, Well, you saw this in the seventies happen and it lasted for for you know, anywhere from five day years depending on the dad. But it was miserable in the cities. There was economic there was crises, and so and so forth. I mean, well, there's it's not just the the unrest

and the COVID that's driving people out. It's the fact that all of a sudden, you don't have to have an hour and a half commute to get to work. You can work from home, or you can you can live two states away and live wherever you want and still work at whatever firm. I've seen where thirty percent of the companies out there are saying they'll never bring these people back into the office, they'll let them work remotely.

So that's going to drive people to the suburbs. And you add on the fact that you have historically low interest rates. The millennials, which is the biggest demographic in the history of the world. You know, there's there now at that age they're they're you know now at that age where they're moving out, they're getting married, they're buying homes. And it's also economic and that it's better, it's much much better financially to own than to rent, especially with

these low rates. And then we've got this shortage of housing. So it's not just the housing stocks that we like, it's everything related to those. And you're talking about your retailers like home Depot and Lows and and you know companies that that do lawn and guarding and remodeling and you know, things like that. Even like the home gym business is a phenomenal thing that's happened. Pet pets and pets supplies and and all these things. The mattress business

is really booming right now. Um. And so there's many ways to play this thing. And like I said, I think this, I think this will last for years and not just not just be a you know, a flash in the pand if you will, all right, so if you had to commit new money. One of the new names or one of the names you like is Taylor Morrison. You would be committing to money there, Yes, we would. They're in great markets. Um. They it's one of the

least expensive trading a right around book value. And you've seen most of these homeowners have made tremendous moves, and it's made a good move. It's so far this year we've seen. You're right, the homebuilders have really been on a rise. Low mortgage rate and as you said, some of the trends of people uh moving out, and also the supply has been down. Yeah, and and historically these things are feast or famine, But like I said, I think there's because of the shortage and because of about

three months supply of housing. I think this is a trend that's gonna last for for a considerable time. So, and they're still very inexpensive. These stocks are some of the most inexpensive the entire market. Yeah. Teller Morrison's got a forward looking peve about not quite eleven, just under it in a current peve about six point six um interesting, interesting,

just quickly thirty seconds. Rocket Mortgage, same story. Yeah, we believe Rocket will will be the dominant you know brand in mortgage and refinancing, and they have laevable scale opportunities in that company. And um, you know they're not just

a refinance firm. They're actually because of young people being more comfortable with different thing on their phones, there's more and more people going this route they think they're Their market share will go from ten where it is now by two thousand thirty, and that will be a juggernaut of a company. Forty two billion dollar market cap company. That's pretty remarkable. I'm gonna leave it there. UM, really appreciate it. Craig Hodges, CEO, portfolio manager of the Hodges Phones,

on the phone from Dallas. Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or at Bloomberg dot com, and be sort to check out our daily radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, and be sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News