Why Telemedicine Might Not Work for Everything

dot com. If you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. Well, as we deal with this pandemic, there are so many things to talk about as it relates to the healthcare aspect of it. Lots of things are changing. We're not going into offices, we are telemedicine is taking

a big source of growth for the healthcare business. To chat about all of the changes, plus the virus, plus any potential vaccines, we are very pleased to welcome Dr Caleb Alexander, Professor of eponymology from Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. He joins us on the phone from Charms City, Baltimore, Maryland. Dr Alexander, thanks so much for joining us here. Let's start with the latest on the numbers.

Carol and I were just uh talking about the really negative trends we're seeing coming out of Europe, uh and even in certain parts of the United States. What's your take on what we're seeing right now. Well, there's thank you for having me, Carol and Paul. It's a real privilege. And I should say that there's a lot of concern

about the way the trends are going. And you know, we've been talking for some time about the potential for a third waves, if you will, as the weather cools, as people start start spending more time in verse as some of us are starting to feel a little bit more pandemic fatigue. And indeed, the numbers are are not looking good. In other words, we're seeing rising rates of infections and in some parts of the country corresponding increases in numbers of hospitations or deaths. And it's um it's

keeping a lot of people awake at night. I can tell you that well. And I do wonder we didn't have the playbook right the first time around. We were all kind of learning as we go and in many cases scrambling just to keep up. I do under Dr Alexander, What have we learned from the past six or seven months, certainly when it comes to treatment and certainly when it comes to keeping things under control or in check if we can, well, we know an enormous amount more about

the virus itself. We understand a lot more about how it how it does damage to the human body, and we certainly have made headway and identifying uh some potential treatments that do have an important role to play. So we do have a lot, a lot more options than we did in in January or February. And I think we've also had plenty of time to understand how the virus is transmitted and what sort of public health pleasures

can be used to prevent such transmission. And I suppose is one of the most remarkable things is that despite amount of time we've had, and despite the amount that we know, and despite the amount of scientific consensus about things such as mask wearing, that we still had uh such a debate about that and and in some cases um lose sight of the science and lose sight of of what we know about how this virus infects people

and kills people. Can I just ask you, do you think that sending everybody back to school, kids back to school has been a mistake. Well, I mean, it's taken place differently in parts of the country, and I think that that's what should be happening. In other words, Uh, you know, there's a lot of variation county to county, city to city, school district to school district in the extent of community spread of the virus. And frankly, I think schools differ in how well equipped they are to

manage that. So there are certainly some districts where I don't think that it's a great idea for children to be in in classrooms face to face, and there are other districts that I think are are managing it with a large number of accommodations. And so it's it's it's really an area where we can set consistent, evidence based guidelines for how schools and school systems should manage this, but the application of those guidelines really has to be

fit for purpose within individual communities. Doctor. On the vaccine front, what is your understanding of how this might play out? There are so many companies pursuing so many different vaccines and therapeutics for that matter. Um, and I'm sure that the folks at Johns Hopkins are right in the middle of all of that. How do you think this is going to plan over the next three six months? Yeah, well it's it's gonna be a good problem to have if and when we have multiple vaccines on the market.

And you're right that there are many, many in different stages of development. Uh, several that are in late stage development. And the best estimates that I've heard, the most credible estimates are that by late this year or early next year, we may have one or more that have what's called emergency use authorization. That's a designation by the Food and Drug Administration that's not it falls short of full approval, but it allows for a product to be used on

the market. And if and when that happens, you know, not everybody needs to be vaccinated in one self swoop. We won't have enough product to do so. And frankly, there are some people that are much greater risk, either because of their occupations or because of their their comorbid conditions, that diseases they have, how old they are, So they're going to be different tiers of people that really needed early and people that can wait eight and and and

don't have such a pressing need. But we really need to do everything we can to ensure that that science that the scientists and public health professions are are are are to do their jobs. And we're fortunate to have uh such a good drug administration, and they really need to be to be uh regulating these products and governing their access market. So Dr Alexander, I do wonder though about the upcoming array of vaccines that we will get and do we as patients consumers ultimately will we be

taking multiple vaccines? Are are we going to at some point have some medical guidance that says this is the kind of vaccine you should be taking versus somebody else takes a different vaccine. Help me understand this, well, it's a great question. And if and when we get to a point where we have multiple vaccines that are on the market, and again I would say that that's going to be a good problem to have. If that happens,

uh it, they will no doubt have some differences. They may have differences and how effective they are, They have slightly different side effect profiles, they may differ in terms of how well tolerated they are. And I think that

it's it's plausible when they first come out. We're not necessarily going to know if one vaccine is better than another in a particular instance, but we certainly will as as time goes on, have information regarding the relative importance of the different vaccines, and rest assured, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other professional governmental organizations will be looking carefully to develop and disseminate guidance for people

regarding which vaccine is right. Doctor. It's interesting and just as we were talking here, Sam Fazeli, who is our senior pharmaceutical and health care analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. He's based in London, he just message me and he said, if you have a vaccine with maybe six effectiveness and only the people take it, is it even worth it to go down the vaccine route. Well, there's a huge push.

I mean, it's it's very very very important that when vaccines hit them that they uh that they're that they're used and and rest as short, there will be uh huge push to try to encourage people to use them because we're not going to achieve what is called herd immunity, in other words, having enough people vaccinated so that essentially society is protected and the COVID virus does transmit easily

within communities unless there's widespread vaccine adoption. And so you know, if there are multiple different products on the market, if they're multiple different vaccines, another benefit of that is that there's going to be uh demand that will far outstrips supply, even if there's some some subet of the population that that doesn't want the vaccine for one reason or another.

And by having multiple manufacturers that are producing the vaccines will have a better chance of achieving that that that target of of what's called herd immunity, in other words, enough people getting vaccinated that the virus can no longer simply jump person to person within communities. So okay, and I have to say, Dr Alexander, I do think about is this our world now and we're going to have similar type viruses that are really tough and very contagious

and very lethal. Um, is this our future? Well, we're going to get through this. I mean, I the the you know, I think that the general scientific insensus is that, you know, we're not going to be with this in February. So don't get your hopes up whether or not there's one or more vaccines on the market. And it may be that there's some uh, some lingering COVID years down the line, just as we have what's called seasonal influenza seasonal flu But we will get through this. We we

will not rest as short in a few years. We will not all be uh you know, wearing masks to the supermarket and conducting as much engagement as we can by by computing telephone. So there's not going to be a COVID like two. That's a whole new variation. No, no,

I mean it seriously, just got about twenty seconds. Yeah, well, I think you know, we look back, the last major pandemic worldwide was nineteen eighteen, nineteen nineteen, and I think the the the best estimates and expectations are that, uh, within twelve to eighteen months, that will be in a significantly better place than we are right now. All right, that's some optimism I can certainly use on this Thursday.

So thank you so much. Dr Caleb Alexander, Professor of Epidemiology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, joining us on the phone from Baltimore, and of course the Bloomberg School of Public House supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. Well, Robin Hood Paul. Definitely one of the COVID economy's breakout successes. Right, We've talked a lot about it. Um it can take advantage those

who use it of volatility in the marketplace. It also can create volatility, I think in the marketplace. But I feel like now it has to figure out what it wants to be. Yeah, when it grows up. It is this week's cover story the magazine. Let's get more from Bloomberg News investing reporter Any Massa. She's on the phone in New York City. Also here Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Weber on the phone in Brooklyn. I mean, we know, Joel,

the millennials, they're pretty addicted to this one. And this has been, like you've kind of hinted at there, it's been sort of one of the stories of the pandemic.

It's just how day trading became the thing that has been captivating people on their phones for months now, and it's made people be doing things that are sometimes a little bit crazier than what they would have probably otherwise been doing simply because there's nothing else going on that looks like an entertainment in the same way, and so it basically almost become robin Hood especially has almost become sort of part of this like financial entertainment ecosystem during

the pandemic. And so we've been watching it UM along the way and any Maza has been breaking a ton of news, and we wanted to kind of put it all together and just say, like, look, this is a robin It is now officially a pandemic pastime UM. But the question becomes, where do they go from here? I think, what's the plan? Where? How do you take something that you know, they popularize free training, trading, fractional shares of ownership now, but where do you go from from there?

And any what did you find out as you tried to ask that question? Yeah, that was a major question we were trying to figure out because robin hood has proved so amazing. I just get people onto its platform like it's spread like wildfire, um signing up three million users in the first four months of the year alone, and so we were kind of asking, um, what's the next act for robin Hood? And when you look at it the way that they're pitching themselves to be investors.

They say, Okay, we get these first time traders in the door, and then the next step for us is to have them grow with us into all kinds of other products that robin Hood doesn't offer yet, but things like one day they'll want us for mortgage lending or car and rental insurance or life insurance. Even so, they have much bigger, much bigger vision for what they want all these customers to do on their platform. That's not

just trading, but the catches um. If you're going to offer things like insurance and you know, retirement accounts to people, you really need their trust. And that's a place where they struggled. So and he talked to us about the typical robin hood um trader or account user. What's the proof out. I think that there is kind of a stock image in everyone's mind of typical robin Hood trader. I mean of their assets under management do come from

millennial users, So it's absolutely a millennial product. But gen Z is in the mix as well. And I think, um, you know, the typical image that you might get in your head of a robin Hood user is maybe a cop age or UM you know, kind of twenty something uh trader a lot of men. But it's that's not the only profile. We We spoke to all kinds of people who use this up um, including people who don't use it just for gay trading, UM who are trying

to invest a little bit more long term. And so it varies that that millennial group is core for them and any um. You mentioned some struggles, let's talk about sort of the the pieces of the puzzle that Robin hood users have encountered, and you know, some of them have become frustrated about what are some of those main grapes. Absolutely well, one of the more recent issues was around two thousand accounts um we're compromised in um, which they found in an internal review and that's UM news we

broke a couple of weeks ago. And the main frustration I think around this issue and others that have come up with robin Hood um over this year, they don't have a customer service phone number, and a frustration what it's like you just stopped right there. It's like what, yeah, that's right, so, and I mean it's really like it's very Silicon Valley actually, like a lot of companies that use all the time. A lot of tech companies don't

have a real customer service number. But this isn't like, this isn't like Uber, you know, I didn't get my car. It's like, I have a question about my investments exactly, And like if you're worried that your account was hacked or if there's an outage, like they had a major day long outage way at the beginning of you know, right before the pandemic lockdowns started on March second, that

lasted all day. So if you're sitting there with your phone, like you know, either the app is totally down or I'm seeing you know, funds disappear from that account because I'm worried it was hacked, Like there's no one to call, and that those treaks people out. So it's this question of like can we move into a world where people are okay with that? And I'm just wondering what the

competitors are thinking here. I think in the trade Charles Schwab tda meror trade, are they saying we need to adapt a little bit because these robin hood folks have tapped into something. It's a great question and I think they have I mean, one thing, robin Hood was really an early mover into free commission trading, and at the time I think it was kind of a wacky idea.

And now that's the industry standard. I mean around this time last year, Charles Schwab moved to zero commissions and all of the other major brokerages did the same, and now you know, zero mission trading is the industry standard. So I mean, that's one way they offer fractional shares. That's something which is the ability to buy just a piece of a stock instead of the thing UM. So for example, like buying just a five dollar slice of

Amazon or another big tech stock UM. And that's something that you know, Fidelity and Schwab have now, So robin Had has in some ways thence the industry to its image. It's true. So any what what are the likelihoods that

a company like robin Hood might go public? So in reporting this story, we did hear that it's possible that this wild here that they've had could pull the process of an I p O public And without commenting on the exact timeline, UM, co founder of lad Kena, did say that they themselves as a large independent public company in the future and so you know, especially if you're so capital markets focused with your customers, you can imagine that they might want to harness some of at um

and and some of the real like lightning in a bottle that they've captured this year by by trying to work towards an I p O that we don't have

an exact date yet. Well, we're all watching, and I have to say, Paul, and I caught up with one of the co founders of Wealth Front, Andy Rackliffe, over the last week or so, and he had some thoughts, certainly on Robin Hood right, you know, Paul, one of the kind of early financial disruptors, right, exactly right, and that you know this is uh the question is this a trend or when we come out of the pandemic,

are people going to kind of back away? Right? And do you have to be more and offer more services? I have to say one internally, uh, one internal message I'm getting from one of our Bloomberg colleagues who said, basically, you know, the customer service or lack thereof, is one reason that they switched back to a major brokerage because they just were uncomfortable with it. All right, Annie Massa,

thank you so much. Bloomberg News Investing reporter uh and along with of course Blomberg Business WEE get it or Joe Weber. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. So it is eleven days, nine hours, fifty seven minutes and fifty four seconds until the November election. I know a lot of people have already voted. I know, I have this great clock, and everybody says, twelve days. No, that's when election day will be over. We may know

an outcome, but eleven days until we all start voting. UM. Tonight, of course, the final presidential debate. A lot going on politically today. Bloomberg contributor Rick Davis is back, former Republican strategist, former manager of Senator John McCain's presidential campaign partner at Stone Court Capital. He's back with us on the phone from Virginia. Ricks, so great to have you here with us. I don't even know where to start, So let's start with the debate. I cannot wait to watch. What are

you expecting? Will it be vastly different? I mean, certainly the topics are supposed to be different, but you think it's going to be very different? This time around. Well, you know the difference maybe in the the Make Commission. They've said they're going to control microphones at least in the initial question and answer period, which is at the top of each section. Uh ten minutes sections two minutes each.

The answer A questioned the commission control the mike so that Trump can't talk over Joe Biden and vice versa. But then it's opened up. And so I do expect it to be combative. The Trump campaign has made it totally clear that Donald Trump is going to go after Joe Biden on his corrupt family and dealings that his son had in China and Ukraine. So I would expect sparks to fly. Uh. It'll be interesting to see how Joe Biden reacts to that aggressive approach that Donald Trump

seems to like. And uh, and and and I think that this is the last chance to make a real material change for the campaigns in the election. Uh. We'll then have to worry for the next eleven days what kind of events will occur around the world that could affect the election. But but tonight's the big night for the campaigns to make their point. I just want to follow it, you know, I think Americans like fighters, and

I don't know that. Do you think that it hurt Biden when he said, you know, shut up, come on man, or whatever, you know, or did people feel like Yeah, I felt the same way, and I would have done the same thing. So I do wonder what's the balance

that Biden has to have tonight. Yeah, there's no question that it's kind of hard to tell out of that first debate whether people reacted to Trump's overbearing and you know, interruptions and domination of the dialogue or whether they reacted positively to Joe Biden's um, you know, sort of pushing him back. But it was a good week for Joe Biden. I mean, he clearly advanced in some of those polls

in the battleground states after that debate. It was also the time when Donald Trump came down with coronavirus, so that was a bit of a distraction from all those things. Um and and yet the campaign has sort of settled back to where it was before the last debate polling wise. And so I would imagine that the Biden people were happy with the outcome of the first debate and would

love to replicate that. So I'll be honest, I'll be switching back and forth between the debate and the Giants Eagles game, but I think they're probably not the actor. I guess on the night off tonight, right, it might be more action with the debate, is there you know this president has been reported again that he is not necessarily taking the time to prepare for this debate. I guess we you know, can rely on his gut up. Is there anything that you would advise this president to

do in tonight's debate? Look, I think that he did um turn off voters in his last debate because of his tone, overly aggressive in his approach, overbearing uh. And so I don't think he has to change too much about um what he says. I think he has to change the way he says it. Tone and demeanor are really important. I mean, this is part of what people have to live through for the next four years. And there is in the polling data a pretty good amount

of Trump fatigue that's out there with voters. I mean, he's just in your mouth's mouth mouth twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. You wake up in the morning with forty twitters and you go to sleep, you know, with him in a rally screaming his head off. So like, if he wants to get reelected, I think if he just dialed it back, people will say, Wow,

that's the Trump we want. So conversely, Rick, I mean the the pandemic numbers are starting to go in the wrong direction again, how should former Vice President Biden portray that? And the U S response or lack thereof from a federal response tonight? What's the best course of action as it relates to the pandemic for Mr Biden? Well, you know, the pandemic played a pretty big role in the first debate, and I think this is where the Biden people feel

they really made up ground. Uh. Not only did they attack the administration's lackluster approach to it, but they offered a very specific plan for the future, a plan which in subsequent interviews, Donald Trump says it is basically something he agrees to. Um. He hasn't implemented it, but um,

but he he doesn't disagree with the Biden plan. And so I think that they want this election to turn on who is the future administration best able to navigate the United States and frankly help the world, uh get through the coronavirus In a subsequent economic downturn, and I think that will be as much of the debate as he can possibly push his plan for for coronavirus. What do you make of the president releasing the sixty minutes interview or a big chunk of it? I have to

say I'm a little obsessed. I've been trying to squeeze and watching it in between prepping for the show and stuff. Um, he's pretty agitated. It feels like from the get go, before they even started talking. Um, how does that impact anything? Or what's the strategy here? Rick? And would you have if you were advising him, would you have said, yep, release it. Yeah. I think he's Um. I think he's

trying to basically uh abate the refs. You know. It's uh, you go after the referee before the game starts, because you want them to feel good for the home team, you know. And and uh and I think, uh this is sort of a message to the debate moderator Kristen Welker. Tonight he's been all over attacking her as being biased. I think he's He's always made a pretty good diet of attacking the media. Uh and and looking for I would think, um, some kind of um, better deal out

of them by by pushing back hard on them. And and and by the way, I think I's worked relatively well in his administration. I think there is a little bit of uh presence ability to cow the media by being so aggressive at them. And this is just another example of how he's done that. Um. He is setting up a lot of alternatives on election day, and he needs the media to be compliant with some of his I think more outrageous options and uh, and I think

this is all a plan to get that ready for that. Rick. If you believe the polls, and I know a lot of people necessarily don't leave the polls, President Trump is behind Joe Biden. What would you advise him to do over the next eleven days to try to rally. He's

got to do is pick his shots. Uh. There are arguably a dozen states that are in play, states that are within the margin are and the polling states that are critical electoral college states that Donald Trump would need to be able to put together a strategy around getting two seventy electoral votes. And he's just got to pick his shots. He's he's not only behind and polling, he's behind in money. Uh. And U arguably forty four million people have already voted, so he's he's probably behind in

votes already. And so he's just got to narrow his campaign aperture down to something that he's just got to be convinced that if he can win in these four or five states Florida, Arizona, Pennsylvania, you know, maybe Michigan, Wisconsin, UM, then then he's got his whole campaign righting on that. Right now, he's still running what I would call a national campaign where they're spending a lot of time in a lot of states that arguably aren't going to matter. Uh if if if if he's not going to pick

a few states to win. So what does Joe Barden need to do to win? Well, I think Joe Biden's got tons of options, right, I mean, he's he's he's got more money, so he can spread the board a little bit. Uh, he can look for opportunities in states like Arizona that have voted Republican uh in presidential campaign since Bill Clinton won in uh his second in his re election and um and and try to force the Trump campaign to spread center than they are able to.

And uh and so uh he has he has the advantage of if the election were held today, he'd probably win in most of these states. That being said, the next eleven days are critical. There's no question that the two thousand sixteen race, I was able to swing around where Hillary Clinton was ahead of Donald Trump at this point in the race, albeit less than Joe Biden's doing right now, and uh and and wind up losing. So there's still time for this change, this race, to change dynamics.

And yet I would say tonight Joe Biden does a good job in the debate. Tonight he will have crossed an important bridge to to winning. Is it still really close? Well, when you look at at first of all, it's not a national election, So forget all these polls that show nationally Joe Biden win by ten points, right, I mean, we don't we don't vote nationally. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by three million and lost. Uh So, so

take that off the boards. When you look at states like Florida, dead heat, North Carolina, dead heat, Ohio dead heat, Arizona dead heat, I mean, these are really important states for electoral votes. Whoever wins Florida, Arizona is going to be the next president. And and those states are within the margin of error in most public polls, and and and and when you talk to the Biden campaign, they say they're winning those states. And when you talk to

the Trump campaign, they say they're winning those states. So if if if Trump wanted to consolidate his entire campaign in the Florida and Arizona, he'd probably be smart to do it. Hey, Rick, let's just assume that Biden wins. Republican strategists they go back and they think about what are we going to do with our party going forward? And my question to you is what happened to the Republican Party, the party of Reagan, Bush, Dole, McCain. And

does the Republican Party want to get back there? Yeah? Well, um, that's about leadership. The Republican Party is a very hierarchical party, right. We we are all about our leadership, and and when you're president, you are indistributable the leader of the Republican Party. The Democratic Party is much more of a bottom up party, right, and power is much more emanated from the bottom that that that goes to the leaders at a local level. Um, the Republican Party, we like the top of the ticket.

And and so I would say one thing that people, regardless of what happens in this election, need to Burton, and that is that four years from now, it's very likely, uh that you could have two women running for president, which would be historic, Kamala Harris and Nicki Haley. And I like our prospects for the Republican Party if that's the contest four years from now, so you can see how quickly things can change us to who represents the

party of Lincoln and Reagan and John McCain. Um. Uh, you could change that overnight with the nomination of someone like Nicky Haley. Rick. I would just say, though, for as a woman, it's taken a long time to finally see something, you know, actually female candidates, you know, potentially running for president. So it's it feels like, even though things can change quickly, feels like it's been a long time coming. It may be the best possible option for

electing a woman is to have both parties nominated. I love the idea. I love it. Um Blueberg contributor Rick Davis always love talking with you. Thank you so much, great insight. Former Republican strategist, former manager of Senator John mckeys presidential campaign, partner at stone Court Capital on the phone from Virginia. Turn on. Yeah, but you let me drive? No, no, no's to drive home, honey, please, I'll do the right vel. I want to drive, Just drive, baby, question trying. This

is the drive to the globe. Give me thanks. We'll dry up down on Bluebird Radio. And just got about eleven minutes left in today's trading session, pretty much hovering on. Here's some of our best levels of the session, Charlie of course, breaking down those numbers. It is time for the drive to the close. Delighted to have back with us one of our favorite voices when it comes to markets and when it comes to talking Tesla. We're doing a lot with him. Ross Gerbert is back, president CEO

of Gerbert Kawasaki Wealth and Investment Management. He is with us on the phone from Santa Monica, California. So Ross, good to have you here with Paul and myself. How are you. I'm good. How are you doing well? Doing well? You know, just watching the markets, watching waiting for the election outcoming, watching Tesla just continue to go higher and higher and higher. Yeah, it's great, isn't it. We should

be full disclosure. Ross owned shares of Tesla. He has a Model three, he knows this and a Model Why that's my wife's it's my wife. So what do you make of the quarter last night? Ross? You know, it's great. I'm really stoked, like they finally have you know, gotten out of that stage of like being kind of shiekily profitable and sort of like you know, sort of like

barely getting there to just blowing it out. And and now with fourteen billion in cash on the books, they they're just fully you know, they have full aquidity to achieve their dreams of building all these giga factories all over the world and and increasing production by several orders of matic magnitude. So I'm very, very excited because boy, the last couple of years have been tough for Tesla to get to this stage, and now we're getting to

the fun part. So it makes me wonder we're we're all the other automakers they're wanting Tesla, and I feel like they're just letting Tesla really kind of own this market. Yeah, they are. And I would say the same thing about

you know, the mall owners or whatever. It's like the auto industry in the United States is about to get devastated because they simply have failed to understand that the technological shifts that are happening that are going to affect them is something they need to go all in on versus these sort of tiptoeing into the market with products that just ultimately sell more ice vehicles for them that

higher margins. So they're giving up the future to make something today and and that's going to be a huge mistake longer term for for the big automakers. What do you make of General Motors coming out with an eight dollar electric pickup truck that seems like a compelling product. Maybe not the price tag, but the product. I mean, it's not compelling at all. I don't know anybody in the pickup side of the world that wants to spend

a hundred grand on a truck. I think that's exactly the point I'm trying to make is, first of all, they haven't come out with anything. They showed us a video of a truck. Now, the last video of a truck I saw was from Nicola and they pushed the truck down the hill. So you know, when when GM actually shows me a real truck, then we'll talk. But I've been in more EV factories and I care to talk about and this is a really hard thing to build. So just saying we're gonna build these trucks, that doesn't

mean anything. You prove to me you're gonna build a truck, and I'll see the truck, then we'll talk. But the second thing is how are they going to sell a truck for a hundred twenty thousand when I can buy an amazing GM truck for fifty thousand or sixty thousand. So it's like, who's going to do that? You know?

So I until these companies go all in. And I've said this many times, you have companies like Ribbean and lou Said, which are pure EV companies with good financial backing that are are all in EV companies, and these are the companies that are going to be successful longer term. But Detroit they seem to just you know, put their head in the sand, keep selling, keep doing what they're doing, and hope that Tesla goes away. Uh, it's not gonna happen. Ross.

That's what I wanted to ask you. Like you said, you're in and out of EV plants, you're checking out. You know this industry, you know to understand it much more broadly, I mean, who are the other folks beyond Tesla. We know you like Tesla, you know that you're keeping a close watch on Okay, So here's what I've learned

recently at Tesla. I was at Autonomy Day. I'm one of the few, probably one of thirty people that have walked through this new cell factory where they are making new batteries with new technology that's nothing like the old. And one of the things that came to my attention, and this was the fact that even if Tesla is successful with everything they do, it's barely a dent in the fight for climate. There's so much demand for EVIS, and there's so much opportunity in EVIS, yet you know,

only a few people are playing it. So the way we see it is there's huge opportunity in cell manufacturers, in the entire supply chain of the e V ecosystem, and that's where we're now investing. A lot of money is into the e V supply chains, um battery suppliers, sell producers. This is the future. And it's like going back to one and Intel created a computer ship and Tell wasn't the only computer chip maker that was successful,

but they were the leader. So what we're looking for, what are the other companies that are going to be successful in in helping supply other companies with e V technology as well as building that you know, vertical integration to supply an industry that's hopefully we'll be selling you know, fifty million cars one day in a decade or so. You know, there's a huge opportunity. I'm on the edge of my ce. Do feel like a tip in your hat as to a couple of names that you're looking

at or maybe investing in. UM, Well, we are investing in the way I'm doing it is through an e t F right now because it's very hard to buy Korean stocks. It turns out that US investors can't easily buy Korea Korean stocks, even institutions like myself. So we are buying an e t F in the symbols L I T And this is a global X security that focuses on battery technology. And the top ten holdings of

this are exactly what you want to own. It's like every battery maker and supplier in Japan, Korea and China, and and that's where this technology is going to be developed and where it's going to be deployed and where there's a huge opportunity. And so that's that's the I think the simplest way to play it, in a way where you can get exposure to many of the different players, and that's what we've been doing. Hey, Ross, Uh, does the electric vehicle industry from your perspective have a view

on you know, Trump versus Biden. We're gonna have an election here? Well, yes, because obviously a guy who's pushing Cole and doesn't get it isn't as good as a guy who totally gets it, who wants to see the world not explode into a fireball. So you know, Biden is going to spend a ton of money on green energy anyway you look at it, and we're seeing it in our solar positions. You know, we're very involved with green energy as a whole. And that's mostly because I

see as as having no choice. So even if Trump wins, we still have no choice. I mean, the fires and the hurricanes aren't going away, but I think Biden. So we're actually betting on a Biden victory right now. Um, And and we expect our clean energy positions to go they have already gone up a ton in anticipation of this, and and I expect this trend to continue, though once again,

these are long term trends. Don't invest around elections or presidents because I'm thinking five ten years, it's going to be another president after Biden too. You know. Always so good to check in with you. Stay safe, Fross Garber, Thank you so much. Ross Garber, Presidency of Greber Kawasaki Wealth and Investment Management on the phone. Thanks so much

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