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You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. Well, it is the five year anniversary of George Floyd's killing that happens this Sunday. That's the anniversary. Hard to believe that since then we've seen a pendulum. I think it's fair to say swing back and forth when it comes to the way companies talk publicly about race, when it comes to the way that we hear administrations talk about it.
The National Urban.
League is out with a new report, and we're joined by Markmrioal, President and CEO of the National Urban League. It calls itself quote, the nation's largest historic civil rights and urban advocacy organization, devoted to empowering communities and changing lives since nineteen ten. Mark joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio. Mark welcome.
Hey, I'm glad to be here, and you know, I want to take a minute if you will talk about US steel please, because we took a position against this transaction, and I think people should be reminded that both Biden and Trump during the election cycle oppose what in it sent in effect, was an acquisition by Nipon Steel of
US steel. Cleveland Cliffs wanted to buy US steel. Both Biden and Trump opposed it on the theory that it would lead to the loss of American jobs, the fear being that Nippon would close American plans transfer production to Japan. So now with this iteration, you asked the right question, is this a partnership or is that a public relations move? Is it still the original deal, which really was an acquisition,
and what protections are going to be there? We took a position from a job's perspective, So.
You were justerned about some of the black communities there right, economic.
Places and steal and we're in a conversation where we're talking about manufacturing. So the real impact question is will this protect American steel jobs or will it potentially lead to the transfer production to Japan.
Well, I will say the President said that it would create at least seventy thousand jobs and AD fourteen billion to the US economy. But as we did just here from Richard Bork, he has a hard time imagining that after investing fourteen billion dollars, then Nippon stee would at an additional fourteen billion dollars to the US economy.
And the question is are there any guarantees? And I think we all need to watch for the details, understand the specifics because those jobs and those communities have been heavily dependent on those types of.
Well, just to contextualize the seventy thousand, that's just a massive number of jobs, especially for the steel industry. US steel only has twenty two thousand employees right now.
Yeah, and I hope it's not a lot of hype, you know, And I think that we owe it to look at the transaction and see what impact it or what guarantees are going to be there for American workers, And what are the guarantees that five years from now, there's not a decision made, a reversal and the jobs moved to Japan or they move abroad for some reason.
So that's really what, if you will, handcuffs and guardrails are going to be placed on this transaction until we see what they file, until we see what they promise, it's hard to know.
But I'm just it's.
Interesting that the president opposed it as a candidate. Biden opposed it as a candidate, the union opposed it at a as a candidate, Union opposed it last year, and there was an American suitor for US Steel Cleveland Cliffs, Right. So there's a lot to unpack here, and I just you know, we work hard on the issue of jobs, and we're very focused on transactions to determine whether it's going to have a positive or negative impact on the communities we serve.
Well, look, yeah, you George Floyd, wait, I want do.
You want to in a minute?
Ye?
I want to stay on economic development and stand jobs because as somebody who's been involved in government for so long there of New Orleans serving in the Louisiana State Senate, you understand this stuff when it comes to economic development.
Take a big picture.
Approach to what you view as the economic policy of the Trump administration and its effects on American jobs. Because the President and the administration would say, hey, we are imposing tariffs to protect US jobs.
I think a tariff approach without an industrial policy, which says what specific industries are you trying to grow it appears to be a scattershot approach designed to leverage some deals.
Without any specificity. So we're talking about iPhones, automobiles, blue jeans.
Toys, what specific so I can buy the selective use of tariffs, the selective use of trying to rebuild an American industry. But you need an industrial or economic development policy that matches the tariffs in order to give certainty to American business and consumers.
So I am curious, you know, Mark, when the President putting pressure on a company like Apple to kind of increase its investment here. And we've talked a lot with our reporters who cover it and our team that covers it, that they say, you know, it's going to be a while before we can do it. That maybe there isn't the skill of the workers, the type of automation, so
on and so forth. But is that the kind of thing that you think would create jobs that would actually benefit black communities, middle class communities, which we have just kind of carved out in a big way.
Look, we the outsourcing of jobs that took place in the eighties and the nineties to really Reagan era free trade policies, which will continued in the Bush and the Clinton era.
The Republicans Democrats are.
Like, yeah, communities, right, they did damage community. The benefit was cheaper goods on the consumer side, right, So there were some benefits, but it hurts. The issue today is what jobs are the jobs.
Of the future.
Is it rebuilding automobile component parts. I would say that what people have not paid attention to is the disinvestment through the NIH cuts in biomedical research and technology where we do have a bit of a competitive advantage. Where we do have, we ought to be pouring more investments into that.
What's the impact of that from your view, Well, the.
Impact of that is long term damaging because what happens is the scientists and the investments go abroad, and once they go abroad, just like manufacturing, you can't get them back. So our economic policy ought to be focused on where do we have a bit of some tailwinds and how can we grow it?
But then on manufacturing.
I agree with the notion that we are to try to rebuild.
Manufacturing, but we need to be more specific about it.
If someone said I want to bring jobs to Detroit, Newark, Gary, New Orleans, Atlanta, I'm all for it, but I need some specificity as to how this policy is going to generate that type of response.
Are you getting time at the White House, We've.
Not been in any direct discussions with anyone in the administration, but as always, if it's about the benefit for the community, I'm open to discussions with anyone.
Is that different than other administrations? Do you typically have a direct line to the White House?
You know?
In the Clinton, the Bush, the Obama administrations. Of Biden administrations, I think there was a much more candid, open working relationship with civil rights leaders, with African American leaders, and they were frank and candid, and they were not performative.
You see I meetings. Many of these meetings took.
Place without cameras, without press, without performance, without posturing. So I mean my view of meetings is I want to talk business. I don't want to play games.
What's interesting is that the communities that you represent at the National Urban League in the last election move further to the right for the most part. And I don't want to paint every.
Conduction, and many didn't vote, and there was a cynicism about whether government.
Can make a difference. And why was that.
I think that people's objective economic conditions, the difficulty of COVID, the depression of wages, inflation, a whole host of factors, and the idea that politicians come and go and make promises and never keep them.
So how does the Democratic Party get these voters back.
It's going to be up to a specific candidate. I think people will rally around the right person. I don't know if it's so much about a party. I think Trump right, Trump remade quote unquote the Republican Party. I think the Democratic Party is the Democratic Coalition is poise for a makeover. It's poised for a group of people who are gonna come and talk about how they're going to change and disrupt.
But bill a vision for the future.
So who are some names that I would on your mind.
I wouldn't offer any names now because right now the horses have not gotten out of the stable.
So we got to see him on the practice track.
Was Kamala Harris the wrong candidate at the wrong time.
Oh, she was a good candidate.
She was given a tough a tough lane to run in sixty to ninety days to get known amongst American people. Remember, she came within one point of defeating someone who was on their third run for president. So we got to remember there was no landslide, there was no mandate, but there was a victory for Donald Trump.
So I would love to say, speaking of victories, that we've made a lot of progress in the last five years. Considering the tragic killing of George Floyd, and I think you know it was COVID.
We were all home.
We had a lot of conversation, really frank and real with CEOs and leaders about the importance and the racism that still is in this country and blacks being targeted around the country and just the injustices. And I feel like we've slip slided back.
Tell me how you saw five steps forward and three steps back on two issues we cover in this report.
I encourage people to go to in UK to report out yes on policing. Many communities, many police departments, many.
Cities, supported by the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department made strides. We didn't pass a comprehensive federal law that George Floyd Law did not pass, but one hundred and eighty police officers were in fact convicted. Dozens of police departments ended up in agreements to reform themselves. A number of states, like Maryland, passed statewide police reform measures.
That was good. Now what's the obstacle?
Now the current administration has walked in and said we're freezing all civil rights investigations, regardless of merit, regardless of the basis of those that puts headwinds into this effort to continue to do reform. On the other hand, there were these incredible commitments by many great American institutions, businesses, philanthropies, etc. And now some are walking them back. And they're three categories.
Those that have just abandoned them, some who've held firm and those that are making cosmetic changes because they know they need to be committed, but they're under the pressure of the administration, which is using its regulatory power to force their hand.
Do you think which one do you think happened more? Do you think these are just cosmetic changes and they're committed to these so called DEI policies, or do you think they are actually making fundamental changes in moving away from them and American.
Business to them straight a sense of courage. And the reason why that courage is important is to recognize the marketplace for both employees and customers of the future, which is becoming far more diverse, black, brown Asian women. That's the workplace of the future, the customers of the future.
I mean, you've seen.
Target get really really hammered, right and they had an incredible record. They've walked it back now they'll tell you no, the changes we made were.
Really around the edges.
But people today, if you look at D E and I diversity, equity and inclusion, equal opportunity, and you poll it, the lowest polling numbers I've seen in any any publicly available.
Poll is fifty percent.
See, the American people are not on the side of the loud anti voices. American businesusiness knows deep in their soul, they know and they understand. But they're being I think pressured, they're being intimidated, and I think that's just the reality of today.
We're squeeze for time twenty five seconds. Are you surprised by the fear of corporate leaders to speak out? And I apologize that it needs to be quick, I am.
But their exceptions Jamie Diamond, Roger Goodell, two people with whom I've spoken, and two people who've made important statements, and I think others should do the same thing.
Are you done with public service?
Never done with public service? So are you?
Is there a chance you would run for something else?
There's always a chance. But I love my job. I love what I do.
But there's always a chance, like what, Stay tuned all right, TVD, We'll come back and tell us you can break it. Mark, thank you so much. He's, of course, president and chief executive officer of the National Urban League, joining us in studio, Mark, thank you. Yeah,