This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanabek. We're here every day bringing you the latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com.
You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. So a bunch of virus headlines. California lifting its regional stay at home orders. We talked about New York City postponing vaccations at large sites they don't have enough doses. Maderna beginning human studies of a booster shop for its vaccine to help protect against a
more transmissible South Africa virus variant. There's a lot of things going on, and we also have a ranking on the Bloomberg about kind of whose or where are the best places to basically ride out the pandemic. Can I just tell you hint hint, us isn't near the top. I was gonna say the same thing um at some familiar names at the top. If you've been following the pandemic for the past ten months, ten months, right, unbelievable meantime, US infectious to seize Chief Dr Anthony Fauci. You just
heard a little bit of him. He says he's worried about a push to delay administering the second dose of COVID nineteen. He talked at a Virtual World Economic Form panel. It was moderated by Bloomberg's editor chief John mccothwaite. Here's a little bit of that. You don't get full efficacy until you get that second dose, and if you allow some optimal efficacy, you can actually immunologically select more for
mutations when you do that. So that's the reason why you know, it may not be the case, but it gets risky, and that's the reason why we prefer to keep it on the time that the clinical trials said, right, the protocol calls for two shots in terms of maximum efficacy. That's of course, Dr Anthony Faucci. Let's get to our own Bloomberg News Health Science and Medical Technology reporter Michelle Cortez. She is with Tim and me on the phone in Minneapolis. Michelle.
Great to have you here. Uh. Dr Anthony Faucci talking about two shots, I do wonder the more that you read, the more you research, you know, is it better for us to get a vaccine out to more people at this point considering the slow rollout, or is it, like Dr Fauci says, we got to just make sure we kind of max out the efficacy of these vaccines and do two shots. It really does matter what the goal
is for the vaccination effort. If you're really trying to protect the people who are the most at risk of dying from the virus or those who are most likely to contracted, like those who are caring for people with coronavirus, then you really need to give those doses because that's where the evidence is, that's what we know works, and if you start going away from what we know work,
you run the risk of it not working. And so having vaccinating half the people is something that doesn't work get you in a worse position then actually just buckling down and giving the full vaccination to that smaller number of people. Of course, if you're just trying to get to hurt immunity. If you're just trying to get to if you're just trying to get to some measure of protection for the greatest number of people, then you might want to gamble. So it really is how much of
a gambler are you? Michelle Carol, That's such a good question earlier that we don't know the answer to, which is where is this bottleneck when it comes to where the vaccines are? Is it manufacturing? Is a distribution? Because here in New York City, the city is postponing vaccinations, as Carol mentioned, at large sites because of a doze shortage. Where are they? I think at this point what we're
seeing is just dislocation as a general rule. If we did have massive stockpiles of the actual vaccine itself, I think that we would be able to start seeing these facilities in sports stadiums and amphitheaters and can you city centers, schools, post office those sorts of things. We would be able to ramp that up. But it's really hard when all
the pieces are moving at the same time. You know, if you can get all the people, if you can get the location and the vaccinators and the vaccinators and everything to a spot but you don't have the vaccine itself, then that's not going to do you very good. When you do have the vaccine, but you have fluctuating numbers, how do you set up for that. So it's all of the moving parts that are moving at the same time that is causing the problems. And we're seeing different points,
different issues everywhere. So if it was all just a matter of we don't have enough vaccine, then we would know just what we have to fix, what we have to address to fix the problem. Does that mean that there are potentially enough vaccines out there, but there may be sitting somewhere at the wrong place and not where they're really needed. I'm just trying to understand, right. I think that there are certain cases where you can look.
For example, we understand, you know, in Florida, for example, they've only given out about half of the vaccine that they have. Now, that's not because they are just you know, sitting in in a warehouse and it's in some freezer somewhere they don't need it. It's because it's just in the process of going from one place to another place, they don't know exactly how much they're going to get.
It's it's the uncertainty of the process. So every place you look at, and not every state, but every hospital,
every county, there's probably differences in every particular area. And of course the challenge with this vaccine itself, the fact that you have to take it out of the freezer thought we constituted and get ready to administer it, and then you have to give it all at once, makes it so that people are trying to be very careful with what they're giving, what they're pulling out of the freezer. So it's if you have a little bit in different places.
Everywhere that you look, there isn't one consistent answer to that question. Well, I mean I wish there were, right. If there were, maybe it would be in a better spot. Um, Michelle, there was a lot of vaccine news this morning, though, I'm wondering about this news that Moderna is planning to do studies of a booster tell protect against a more transmissible virus variant, this one coming from South Africa. When you saw that news, what was your reaction? Well, that
was actually really interesting stuff. There's good news and bad news in this particular set of information that's coming up from Maderna. The problematic piece was the fact that the vaccine itself generates a less robust response then against the new variant then against the old variant. So if you're getting madernat vaccine, you want to make sure that whatever virus actually you come into contact with, you're going to be better if you have the original, the wild type virus.
That being said, the the vaccine actually is still very potent, in fact, generates a stronger immune response than even the natural infection. Michelle, I want to get your thoughts on that headline that that Charlie just read. Governor Cuomo says New York is ready to ease rules after holiday spike ends. I gotta tell you, um, whenever I see I'm just
gonna put it out. The headline came across and I was like, Carol, did you see this, because it feels like, you know, when we are starting to do better, we we don't want to do something, uh that could potentially make us do worst. Same thought about California, Tim, You're exactly right, and to point out to California as well, they're still in the middle of a pretty bad outbreak at the moment. So it's getting better, but it's getting better from a really terrible position. It does make you
wonder how we're going to handle this outbreak. We've seen it over and over again. It's this roller coaster, right, the cases go up, people get worried, they start staying in the numbers come down, so they ease back up and then and then it just happens all over again. So it is this tension between being able to get out there, having the social stimulations, seeing people in person, getting our economies back going again, versus keeping the virus
under control. Like send this wing that's been happening, and I just can't imagine it's going to end, probably not for another year or longer. Well, it just makes me think.
I was telling Carol about this. Over the weekend. The New York Times had this interactive chart that they published that that showed, based on speaking to experts, if restrictions are lifted in February, twenty nine million additional total infections could happen, versus if current restrictions remain in place until late July, we could actually see us in the pandemic sooner. So it's like it's surprising to me, I know, there is this tension between making sure that we are doing
what we can do to keep the economy going. But at the same time, if the virus is not under control, the economy is not going to get going, right. If the virus is still hanging over people, then they're going to be reluctant to to do certain things. And I believe that you'll see that even in certain areas where things like gyms and hairdressers, those sort of movie theaters are open. If you go there, often you're the only
person in the entire movie theater because people are still worried. So, yeah, hopefully it won't be a complete, you know, flooding back of you know, the the economic engine powering everything, empowering that virus level right back up to previous heights. MICHELLEO, do you have some hope faith in that because we at least have a vaccine, that that is going to be that is a game changer. We've said that a
million times. But even as economies or markets or cities or states begin to open up, that because we are at the same time giving out the vaccine, it's not a case that we slipped back to where we were lass summer less spring, like we won't go back there is that kind of the game changer here, even though we've got to still be careful. But that's kind of something that provides a little bit of a safety net here for us. I think the safety net is going
to be on the severe disease piece of it. And we have really worked very hard in the US to vaccinate all of our seniors who are in nursing homes. And I would say that's one area that it has gone really well when you look at what Walgreens and CBS have done, not necessarily if you look at how they've actually tracked all the numbers and and how they've you know, specifically given it to exactly the right people.
But if you just look at the numbers of people that they have gotten to, most nursing homes have had folks come in from CBS and Walgreens. Most nursing home patients are getting these vaccines, many of them have gotten two of them. That's a reduction and serious disease. And that's the people who are going to die. So I would say we might see cases still high, but we're unlikely to see the deaths at the rates that we've been seeing. That's significant. I like this, Yeah, this is good.
That's what I'm trying to understand like a right kind of just at least some progress moving forward. Michelle, Thank you so much. Michelle Corte, Senior Health Science and Medical Technology reporter at Bloomberg News, on the phone from Minneapolis. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Well, the annual of the year I had issia of Bloomberg Business Week.
It is on newsstands, now online and on the Bloomberg and in it a deep dive into batteries from Asian manufacturers in the global race, to batteries hidden in around New York City and the startups that are kind of blazing a new way forward. There's so many different angles. We want to cover some of them. Bloomberg News editor Demitri Cassoneds is with us on the phone in New York City, along with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Weber on the access line in Brooklyn. Batteries. Joel, you guys
really kind of got into it. Yeah. I even did a cover line there's a great future and batteries. Think about it, which if you're if you remember the graduate U graduated but with plastic and now it's batteries but demitra. Why is this the year of the battery? Well, you know, the batteries are in everything, right, ideal a lot with electric automobiles and vehicles, but batteries power everything. And so
we're seeing massive factories coming online around the world. The Asian companies have really dominated this in recent years, and they're making a very big play this year with battery factories that are going to open in Europe and even
in the US. And finally, others are kind of opening their eyes to this out of necessity in many other reasons, and so we're starting to see more of a real heated competition that's going to emerge among European battery producers, Asian battery producers, and um, we think American battery producers as well. Well. That's interesting because the US is definitely not in the lead, and the you know, the Asian companies are the ones that we're kind of we think of first and foremost, like C A. T. L UM
and they're eyeing Europe over US for expansion. What's that about. Well, you know, you see what's happening right with Volkswagen and all the European automakers who are coming out with new models of electric vehicles, and in check sales figures for autos in Europe last year, we're definitely down, but in the e V sector they were up quite a bit, and that's only a trend line that's going to keep going up, up, up, So that's a primary factor motivating it.
You'll see partnerships that are struck between the carmakers and the battery makers. Um. Uh it's c A t L as we mentioned, LG is another one. LG is also one of our companies on the sixty Companies to Watch list, uh, Korean companies that are big in the game kind of sonic as well. UM. And so what you're seeing is that the automakers are going to start thinking about whether this is an area that they should be getting into, as Tesla does in terms of really developing things themselves.
I mean, they partner certainly with companies, but there's so much opportunity because of where we're seeing electric vehicles going and also massive battery storage systems right to deal with UM, greater security in terms of grids and power lines. That's where we're seeing a lot of here in the United States, batteries systems are really going to be the key to help US deal with very weak and compromise grid systems
across the country. Okay, so let's talk more about America, because distant third place in the in the global race goes to the US, but there is a chance that you know, America could catch up. What does that have to look like? Well, you know, I think that we just haven't thought about it as much, and because again we weren't really thinking about these as a way to both powered grid systems. But also if we're talking about e VS, the US market is really very far behind
in this right. I mean, we're maybe two percent of auto sales in the US are electric vehicles, So batteries have not been front and center part of what we're doing.
But we have the resources, we have the technology. You know, we have areas that are rich in lithium deposits, so we have the ability to develop a really strong industry in this and there have been a lot of reports in the last six to eight months that have indicated that we're competitiveness sake, this is going to be an area that the US is going to have to develop, not just jobs wise and economy wise, but again keeping the battery production close to where you're doing the other
things that are going to need the batteries because all the trade issues and everything else are complicating to some degree the ability to effectively like source your batteries from you know, companies and countries that we're having a lot of trade issues with. For example, listen, I'm into local lettuce and I'm into local batteries. I'm just gonna put it out there. Um so, right right, So Dmitri talked
to us. One of the stories I thought was really interesting was about all the batteries that are hidden across New York City. What's that about? So that's very much about um, you know, weak sort of grid and um a need to bolster what we have in the way of power supply, and those are battery systems that are
going to becoming. What we show you online and in the magazine are photos of location that MG micro rig Networks, the company that's behind us, have actually secured and paid for, and between now and the end of the year, massive battery systems will be installed in those locations. And what they're doing is identifying locations that are like abandoned lock abandoned parking lots, rooftops that are massive enough, and in areas where again where the greatest compromised because they're in
flood zones because they kept badly by storms. And so we're going to start to see and they're multi use kind of battery systems where you see a lot of batteries on the top level of something powering you know, our needs, and also like car chargers underneath, because we are expecting that more and more people are going to start to buy electric vehicles and need locations to power
their cards exactly. One other interesting thing that is covered in this week's issue of Bloomberg Business Week when it comes to batteries is investors are seeing chip makers and battery makers is safer than investments in companies like Tesla and Neo. UM. So they're still seeing chip makers and battery makers specifically as a way to get exposure to
electric vehicles without the volatility of Tesla. Yeah, I mean, I think also without the volatility maybe of some of the companies where there have been valuations and a lot of activity um and and you know, there isn't something as let's say, really certain and stable that you're looking to invest in. I mean with batteries, there's an actual
thing that's getting produced. Um. A lot of the ones that they're investing in already have operations set up, factories, created materials that they've sourced, the natural materials that are necessary and they're making the batteries. And again there is such a demand because we're not talking just about cars. We think about the war world and what around you was powered by a lithium ion battery, whether it's a phone, whether it's a computer, whether it's a lamp on your
death that are now increasingly a fan. I mean, you know all the smart home stuff. I mean, there's a ton of stuff, and there's such a need and such a demand. Um. And I think that there's seeing what's happening with these companies and saying this is definitely something we want to invest in. So and you've gotta be quick here, demtro Is there anybody anybody who can make money on disassembling old batteries? Yet? That's a Kyle Stock
story that I thought was really interesting. Well, if you believe the company that we one of the company's we profile is Redwood Materials. Sounded by a former Tesla executive, James strubble, and they would say, yeah, and we do believe that there is because we're not seeing just redwood in this. Several companies are actively developing the process for recycling batteries because all these electric vehicles, within ten years, their batteries are going to be dead, so we gotta
do something with that. Yeah, this is going to be important part of the equation otherwise we're no better off. Um. Great stuff, guys, and it's such a must read all these different angles. Demetro Cassini's editor Bloomberg News, Joe Weber, editor Bloomberg Business Week. Go to the magazine check it out. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg
Quick Takes. Tim's GENEVIEC on Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg Business Week gets brought to you by SEI Crises bring out the best in people, character, community, partnership together as one. Se I go to se i C dot com slash i m s for more information. So Tim, no doubt about it. Former President Trump and current President Buying two
very different individuals. They're expected to lead pretty differently as well. However, when it comes to China, they might be a little bit more similar when it comes to policy, so says Andy Brown Bloomberg New Economy, saying that Biden is Trump two point oh when it comes to China. Andy joins us now on the phone from New York City. He's
editorial director of Bloomberg New Economy. Um, So, Andy, why do you say that that Biden is looking like Trump two point oh when it comes at least relations to relations with China. So, of course it's been clear for a long time that China is now a bipod is
an issue UM in the United States in Congress. But I think what really dramatically brought this to my attention was the way that on his way out the door, Mike Pompeio, the now former Secretary of State, designated China to be a perpetrator of genocide a genocidal state, and the incoming Biden administration UM, including Tony Lincoln his replacement,
concurred with that assessment. This is pretty dramatic stuff, and nobody quite knows what it means for the United States to formally designate China as a genocidal regime, what it means to tie China with the same brush as for instance, Paul Potts Cambodia. But I'm sure that it has pretty far reaching consequences. I think we can be very sure
of that. Well, Andy, what does it tell us then, potentially about how a Biden administration might approach its relationship to China more like what we saw with the Trump administration versus different So the first thing that has to be said is it's going to be a differentiated approach to the extent that the Biden administration is committed to
working with allies. Not whether those allies are prepared to go along with the United States um A US that they still and will not trust, don't trust and will not trust perhaps for many years, is another question. But I think it's going to be a smarter approach um
that includes friends and allies. But the substance um of the Trump pushback against China, I think substantially remains the there is no going back to the former policy pursued by what administration after another, that policy of engagement with China, which failed to deliver on its promise, which was supposed to be a more open liberal economy um and A
and a more democratic or representative political system. So what does this mean for for American business because what we've seen in the last few years, more than just the last few years, is the opportunity for American businesses, international businesses to a certain extent, some more successful than others, to actually operate and and grow in China. What does
this mean for businesses moving forward? Okay, first of all has to be said that US businesses are not pulling out of China at all in response to UH Trump's hardline policies. Quite the opposite. Wool Street is piling in huge amounts of money going into UH, into China, UH, into Wealth Management UH and other areas, tracing chasing trillion
dollar opportunities. But I think what it's going to mean is there is a I mean, there is a lot of nervousness that I've I've been hearing myself from businesses about what does it mean when the Biden administration takes over a policy condemning China UH for genocide. Look, companies like Apple, like Amazon are already scrambling to comply with sanctions regime against multiple Chinese entities and individuals linked to repression in in xin Jong. They're now going to be
under added scrutiny. What about the Olympic Games. I mean, you know, can the Olympic Games put pull off? We've heard we've heard already calls from human rights groups to abandon those But more generally, I think there's going to be an ethical issue here that businesses people are going to be greats groups are going to be questioning why
are we doing business with this country. So it's so, you know, on the one hand, you have the poll of the Chinese market, it's the only major economy still growing. And then on the other hand, UM, you've got you know, the the the poll of of of all these groups who are questioning the fundamentals of US business engagement with
the People's Republic of China. And it was also interesting and important that you pointed out that the Biden team UM invited Taiwan's to factor ambassador to attend the inauguration for the first time they had they actually gave an official invitation. And I do wonder to like another sign of or signal that the US administration, the new administrations
may be sending to China. That's right on on Taiwan. UM. Of course, this was a highly opportunistic and and and as as as many of these decisions were by the out by the out by by Mike Pompeo on the way out rather self rather self serving. This one was particularly hamhanded. Nevertheless, Um, it is the case that the Biden administration formally invited to representative Taiwan to come to the inauguration. That is a big deal, and that of course is the hot issue, the hot button issue for
the Chinese government. So you know, you're you're seeing we saw this speech by by Shijimping just today where you know he's not he's not indicating uh anything that looks like, you know, a softening or a sort of a warm outreach to the Biden administration. They're going to be watching and and and and waiting and testing him. So Andy,
very briefly in just thirty seconds. Um, if we think about the legacy of the Trump administration when it comes to international relations, is pushing China, pushing the conversation in China? Is that what is he is going to be remembered for. He changed the conversation on China. I think that is that is very clear. As they say there is no
going back to the former UH policy of engagement. Now, I think that's what he will be remembered for, but he will also be remembered for not delivering um on his on on on anything that looked like a coherent UH strategy in pushing back. That's what the Biden administration has to play for. All Right, We're gonna leave it on that note. Hey, Andy, thank you so much, really appreciate it. Andy Brown, editorial director at Bomberg New Economy, on the phone from New York City. Thanks for listening
to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News