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I don't know if you guys saw this in the pharmaceutical industry today, Snofi is going to pay more than one hundred million dollars to settle about four thousand lawsuits accusing the drug maker of failing to warn users that at Zantac heartburn med could cause cancer. This according to people familiar with the deal cited by Bloomberg. Remember Zantak
was recalled back in twenty nineteen. It was a month after an independent lab announced publicly it found the likely carc carcinogen and DMA, and the drug US regulators confirm the findings in April of twenty twenty and ordered the medicine off the market, no longer sold.
No, it's interesting a massive drug though that was out there. I think my dad used to use it a lot. The reason we're bringing this up is because the Global Communications and Marketing from Edelman is that with its latest Trust Barometer special report, which focuses on trust and health, and the finding show that trust in healthcare companies is declining not just in the United States, but also in Japan, Germany, India,
China and the eleven other countries Edelman Study. So back with us as Richard Edelman, CEO of Edelman, joining us here in New York City. Richard, great to have you back with Tim and myself.
Hope you are well, happy passover.
Happy passover, and tell us a little bit about third year in a row that you guys are looking at trust and health, specifically that connection healthcare companies, which, by the way, in the US fell from the trust to distrust to do what is right. That really stood out for us. Walk us through though what you guys look at and what the finding was, and what jumped out for you who have been tracking this for a while.
So, Carol, I think the big change this year is the jump in health empowerment, which means that you know, eighty plus percent of people believe that they are able to take care of their own health. And that's a big positive because it means that you know, they'll be going to check their blood pressure or you know, get
information on their own. However, their trust in institutions in health has plummeted, so trust in reporting about health or trust in the CDC or the WHO has declined massively, and it's a sort of maybe a PTSD from COVID nineteen and so in a way, the result is a little bit like the kid wants to drive the car and you don't have drivers at and so you know, it's great to be, you know, enabled, but you'll also
have to know the facts. And fifty five percent of people in eighteen to thirty four said I've made a bad health decision as a result of misinformation. Interesting, so the outcome is not good, Richard.
Can we can we lump all of these institutions together, the WHO, the CDC, and healthcare companies, because to me, these are distinct entities.
They are distinct, and yet what people are seeing is that they can't get the straight story. They don't they don't get good quality information, and they are inclined to act. They want to eat better, they want to live better. Eighty five percent of the respondent said I could have better health. That's positive. What's negative is they no longer believe classing institutional forces. They do believe themselves, and they
believe their own doctors. And for the doctors, we've got to give them time to talk to the patients about the information, because otherwise they're just prescribing or just saying, you know, do this, and the patients need to actually test their theories with the doctor. He's the one or she's the one person. I believe.
I'm curious. You know. One of the reasons we love talking with you. There's many, but one of the reasons is, you know, is that the CEOs, the leaders that you are talked to, that you talk to on a regular basis all different types of industries, including the healthcare industry. I mean, I feel like this is one industry that is lagging in disruption. We keep talking about how technology should make it better. I think Tim and I both
know people who have become doctors. It takes a lot of time, takes a lot of money, it's a lot of work, and who are like, I want out and it just is shocking. And I see the shortages and get worried about, you know, an aging population, who's going to take care of everybody. It's great, we have all these medical innovations that keep people alive longer, but you're worried. I don't know, I wonder if we're going to have you know, the medical community there to take care of everybody.
What are you hearing from leaders you talk to in the healthcare industry and even outside about kind of what's going on in terms of health.
I think Carol, you're dead right about the number of doctors retiring or opting out. We do have to rely not just on them, though, but also on nurses and pharmacists, the broader array of potential advisors to patients. But we really have to reduce the administrative burden. Use AI to advantage, make sure that the time spending spend on filling out forms is just not valuable. That's just bureaucracy. Give them
time to talk to patients. That's why people go into the medical provision to make people better.
I do wonder though, again, separating all the different entities that you discuss in the trust barometer, there is this one that sticks out first. How do you define healthcare companies? Does that include insurers? Does it include pharmaceutical manufacturers? Who does that include?
It's mostly pharma companies and the hospitals and people dealing directly.
Okay, very interesting. So I think it's interesting because a couple of years ago we had a Bloomberg business we cover story and it's sort of the height of the pandemic when the vaccine companies had come out and Operation Warps had worked and they'd created these vaccines, and it was about how the idea that these companies went from being so hated among consumers to loved among consumers because
they had created the vaccine. And I just wonder in terms of the stakeholders who are out there, the shareholders, the customers, I wonder how you sort of make sense of these results, because I think a lot of people would argue, well, you know, I do see these farmer companies out there, and I'm just wondering, since they're for profit companies, since they're responsible to stake to their shareholders first and foremost is everyone's best interest there.
So I think the intrusion of politics into healthcare has put a big damper on the sector, meaning that health should not be politicized. Whether you're Trump or Biden, you did the best you could during a really uncertain time, and the outcome of health must not be something that is used as a kind of political stick by the other side. It should be off limits in the sense that we want to take care of people, we want
to have them have good quality. I mean, polonization of medical science is now more problematic as a fear than affordability of care or concern about another pandemic. That tells you something. People understand that stuff is being politicized. It's why nobody trusts the information. And it's also why I really believe we have to go through companies, for example,
a company's own newsletter, an NGO's newsletter. We've got to use every possible means of educating the patients because they feel really confused, and when they're confused, they're paralyzed well.
And we've got to chart up for those who are watching on YouTube and Bloomberger originals. Maybe we can bring it back up for everybody, Elizabeth, But it's just interesting that four and ten young people will only trust providers aligned with their politics. So that's pretty amazing. So forty one percent age eighty eighteen to thirty four, thirty five percent thirty five to fifty four, and about eighteen percent
fifty five plus. I got to tell you, I don't think I ever know the politics for the most part. There's been some doctors in my life, you know, who've been there for many, many years, and we get to know each other, and so then we sometimes will go and have some you know, conversations that go in different areas. But for the most part, I have no idea.
Do you ever know, No, it's.
Never occurred to me, Richard, what do you say to that?
But Carol again, think about it. So, oh so I hear this doctor is a trumpert. Therefore, you know, I'm a liberal Democrat. Therefore he must be in favor of hydroxychloroquine or some other thing magic cures. You can see how that happens. It should not be in the doctor's office. It should be what do you have, what's the best way of curing this, and here's the science. Let's talk about it, agreed, and that's the best way.
Yeah. It's just interesting though, man, I'm always some fascinating findings. Richard, good to check in with you again. I hope Paul as well. Richard Edelman, chief executive officer of Edelman joining us there in New York City. But interesting, I will say that there are a couple of doctors that've been with for a long time and then you kind of get an idea of how they're feeling. But I'm like, great doctor, I'm Okay, I just ignore it.
I don't ever encounter that they don't do. How do you spend it? I can't spend enough time with doctors. They're in and out.
Do you have any do doctors that had been in your life for a long time.
Or you get to kind of friends. But yeah, no, I mean I feel like we don't get time with doctors these days. You're in and out.
I have a couple of doctors, and that's why I stay with them.
This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
It is Bloomberg Business Week. You just mentioned this, but it's worth repeating because I think it's really interesting the way it moved in video stock today, soft Bank investing one hundred and fifty billion yen it's about nine hundred and seventy billion dollars by twenty twenty five to boost its computing power for generative AI and buying equipment from in Video for it.
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I think you mean nine hundred and seventy million, isn't it? Yes, thank you, that's okay, nearly a billion dollars. N hundred and seventy billion, man, that's a lot, thank you.
I was doing it, has doing some currency conversion in my head.
Tim does that, he does do it. Don't go there, all right, So let's get to it with some thoughts on AI, which is something that it feels like creeps into every conversation we do, and what it means specifically to our workflow and to our world. Back with us. As the CEO and founder of Creatio, Catherine Costa Riva is with us. This company, by the way, it's a CRM or what we call customer relationship management company, and it sells software that automates workflows. Catherine joining us on
Zoom from Boston. Nice to have you back with us. Tell us about your world. I think it was back in August, so it's been a few months. How is your world changed? Tell us what's going on and updates on everything.
Hello, Hello, Carol team. It's very nice to be here again, and thank you very much for having me. Listen. Things are changing very rapidly. I could put it this way, and.
We are here extremely.
Excited about the opportunity to combine no code applications and AI. If you remember this conversation back in August when we discussed this power and magic of no code. When non professional software developers can build their own applications and automate their workflows, AI makes them extremely more productive and efficient as they develop their own apps. So no code and AI together, that's the new future for us.
Remind everyone who doesn't remember our interview with you back in August or listening then, what no code and low code are and the way that we see the manifest start today.
Sure were happy, happy to do that. Listen. Not many people know, but in the world there are twenty five million software developers professional software developers. And when you think about this number, it sounds like a big number, right, twenty five million people. And by the way, the population of software developers is growing like four percent year over year.
But when you think about the number of workflows and applications that need to be automated in the enterprises, in the companies like Bluebird for example, or any other company out there, there are hundreds of millions of applications that need to be built and automated. So when you do your mass you easily understand that twenty five million software developers is obviously not enough to automate to satisfy the demand of five hundred million apps that need to be automated.
So to resolve this problem, no code comes into play, and we engage knowledge workers, people actually like yourself, professionals in different jobs and areas other than software developers, to automate your own workflows, because who knows your workflows better than you know them? So you can drag and drop and actually develop your own application, your own workflow management
application to automate the workflow in your organization. And it could be a front office application like sales management, market and automation, service management, you name it. But also it could be middle office or even back office operations like HR workflows or any document management workflow. So we're talking about the workflows, enterprojects and automation through knowledge workers.
Catherine, I thought, you know, all the SaaS companies have been doing this for a while long time, so help me understand what the difference is. I mean in terms of how generative AIS and machine learning is going to help you know, work with all of us, because again, we've been automated, automating back office, a lot of operations to do a lot of the jobs that used to
be done by humans. Pick up a phone and you call any institution, takes a while to actually get to a human for the most part, because so many things are being automated. So help me understand in our general lives, work and play, how this kind of could impact us.
Be as specific as you can, because I think that helps us really understand what the difference between the automated world we've been living in for some time already and what it means when we use jen Ai and it takes us to a whole other level.
Brilliant, And that's a brilliant question, Carol. Let's let's talk with no code itself and then add AI on top of it. So when you think about those workflows that you just mentioned, Carol, on average, it takes waters months to automate any workflow you just mentioned when when you were asking the question, like we're talking about long period of time. And then think about the reality, just the
news that you just brought to all of us. The world is changing so fast and you need to adapt and you need to change those processes as fast as the world is changing. And if it takes you months or quarters or sometimes years to automate one workflow, how fast can you actually change it? And this is the beauty of no code when you can change your workflows on the fly, not being a professional software developer. Now to your question, when we add AI on top of it,
you can actually ask your no code application like creation. Listen, I need to automate the healthcare customer service workflow and provide some specifics and you just define, You talk to the application, and you give instructions what exactly you want to build out there, and AI builds it for you. Obviously, at the current point of time, this is not a very sophisticated application with thousands of fields and workflows behind it,
but that's a very very solid foundation. So actually AI builds this application or automates this workflow instead of the humans, and then humans like ourselves, non professional software developers, they twike it. They add fields, they add logics, they add dashboards, they add workflow, so they tweak the application that was built by AI. And that is why I'm saying that the synergy of no code and AI is so powerful because actually AI augments our work.
Right speak, Catherine eraises the question that I think a lot of people have about to what extent you know, jobs are at risk here for people who are coders out there, and it's something that we ask a lot of our guests. I mean, how do you look at this?
Listen. I have a very very strong position here. It augments our lives. Okay, it makes actually us much more efficient and productively.
View all of the programmer jobs.
Listen, There's going to be some areas where it's going to be a replacement, but replacement for good because when you are not doing a routine job that can be easily done by AI, you will be doing more intelligent work that will actually make you even more valuable on the market. So you as a professional are going to be growing in your skills because you will need to do more advanced work because all the routine jobs will
be done by AI. So again it's all mentioned rather than augmentation, rather than replacement.
So can you give us a specific example a company or something that's in our lives And I'm just trying to figure out whether it's going to the doctor, whether it's a company. I don't know. Give us something specific of how it might change. It's got about unfortunately a minute left, but I'd love to kind of drill down there and understand a little bit more.
Sure and listen this example that you ask me, Carol about the call centers, right, all of that automated. Let's let's take this example from the time that the customer first reaches out to the time that a customer service representative opens up a case and addresses actually the issue. AI can do this work so much faster from finding
similar cases and actually offering these solutions. Moreover, the solution is going to be customized considering all the previous history of relationships with you as a client, you as an individual, so actually again making this conversation much more intelligent than it used to be in the past.
So is it going to be an automated conversation or you're saying that information will be at the fingertips of a human who can look at it and through generative AI will come to some smart conclusion based on all the conversations we've had. So it's much more productive for the user. And again just twenty five.
Seconds, right, it can be either way, So it depends on your preference. If you want, like you want to be engaged into the conversation, it will do exactly as you described. If you want to do it all automated, it can't be done still all automated. And this is again the beauty of AI that you have the choice which way to go.
All right, We got to leave it there, Hey, Catherine, fun to check in with you again and catch up. Catherine Costa Riva. She is, of course the CEO and founder of Creatio, joining us there from Boston. Would you rather talk with some an automated, smart, automated or human human?
Still? What about you?
Depends mostly human?
Yeah, yeah, I got to explain myself, especially those.
Like some things should go back and back and you've got to start again, and you're like, if there's something that that history could be right there? All right, folks, more to come right here on Bloomberg Business Rate. This is Bloomberg