Trump’s Threat to Use Troops to Combat Protests

Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. This is the guy I've been wanting to talk to to try and make sense of everything that's going on a little south of est down in the nation's capital. He is our Washington Bureau chief and executive editor there in the Nation's capital. Craig

Gordon from Bloomberg Joinius on the phone from Maryland. First, Craig, how are you. Oh, I'm doing fine. I'm out here in besides of Maryland and the leafy suburbs, so I'm plenty of plenty of removed from the action downtown, which would be at three or four blocks from where our offices, but of us have been there in about ten weeks, so we're feeling, we're feeling okay out here. And tell me what is going on. I mean, you've got a

team reporting on this all the time. I mean I saw some pretty arresting images from uh Jen Epstein, who I know, you know, works very closely with you on our White House beat, and others who have been documenting this. I mean, what do we need to know maybe that we haven't seen and the important context of what's going on with the president and the response right now in Washington. Yeah,

that's a good question. I mean, I think the thing that is important to remember right now is that Trump actually does have a lot of authority to do the thing that he said that he wants to do, which is potentially send US troops into US cities to try to sort of quality unrest. Um. You know, there's laws that day back to eighteen o seven that allow him

to do this. Usually they're only invoked when the local officials, the governor, the mayor, um, you know, sort of calls the White House and said some you know, kind of sending the troops. Um. It happened during the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles when Georgie W. Bush did it. There's some other instances scattered through history, but in most

cases it's local officials making their request. The law this, you know, does allow Trump to do it if he sees there's a need to do it or fields there's a need to do it and essentially overrule the local um, the local officials. So it's something we're watching very closely now. Pentagon officials today held a briefing and told us, you know, they don't think that they will need to invoke this,

you know, literally active military response. The National Guard and some of these states and cities can probably handle, um, whatever the protesters can throw at him. But it's very much alive question. And I think based on the reaction Trump's reaction last night, he's kind of itching to do it. So we're we're on pretty high alert for any kind of mobilization like that. So, Craig, wouldn't you make of

what happened last night? So the President makes some comments and then he does this walk from what I understand an unannounced walk right across the street from White House through Lafayette Square, UM to visit St. John's Episcopal Church, and then he holds up a Bible. So, I don't know, what have you heard about that? And what was the

president thinking? Well, what our reporter Jennifer Jacobs was actually on the scene was in the press, you know, the press pool essentially when um Trump made that walk, was that you know, people may remember the New York Times, Bloomberg and others reported that they had moved Trump into the sort of underground safety bunker at the White House on Friday night. UM, George W. Bush went there on

nine eleven. You know, it does get to Cheney if you anyone saw that movie, kind of hustled there pretty forcefully on nine eleven. So you know, it's used to keep the leaders of the nation safe. Um. I don't think that was really an image that Donald Trump wanted kind of hanging out there. That he was, as his own son put it in a tweet, you know, sort of cowering in the basement while the protests were raging outside. Um, outside of the White House, they seemed Trump themselves seemed

kind of eager to erase that image. And what Jennifer reported was that In a meeting with the military leaders who are at the White House to discussed some of the response, he raised the possibility of of walking over to St. John's Biscopal Church. And again, anyone who's visited the White House knows there's sort of a park right across the street, um Lafayette Square, and then across from that is this church. I've been there many times on

pool duty covering presidents of the years. It's it's a frequent Sunday stop um for presidents, not so much Trump, but it is. It's sort of right there, it's in walking distance to the White House. He sort of made the decision he wanted to give it a try, and when the President says that, the team sort of scrambles

to try to to try to make it happen. We're trying to sort out today exactly who gave the order or how it came down that the protesters were sort of cleared out from the front of the White House too, so that the President could make that walk, which is sort of essentially across Pennsylvania Avenue, across this rather small park and then right to the following corner. Um. There's some reporting right now that are training General Bill Barr, who people may have seen on TV went over to

the kind of view the side. Um, before we knew Trump was going to make the walk, was the one who actually gave the order to kind of clear the park. That's a little bit in dispute right now. We're trying to get to the bottom of it, um in talking to Justice Department officials. But clearly an order was given because again anyone who saw the video and Jennifer Jacobs was there for us, you know those um, those military

police cleared that spot out pretty pretty aggressively. UM, some tear gas and riot shields, um, et cetera on what at that point up till then, had been a fairly peaceful protest. So look the imagery. If you're a fan of Donald Trump, the imagery was probably pretty dramatic. Um, He's sort of striding through this kind of um, you know, troubled area where this protest had just happened, goes to

the church, holds up a Bible. Um. Obviously he's taking kind of withering fire on this from Democrats who say, um, you know, he essentially cleared out a protest simply for a photo op. The leaders religious leaders, the Catholic archbishop in Washington, the Episcopalian bishop who kind of essentially oversees that church, you know, said it was sort of horrific that you would stage a photo opertive religious site with the with the Bible itself. So obviously very split opinions

on that. I think Donald Trump honestly thinks he had a pretty good day yesterday. Right all right, So Greig, we're going to get our conversation in a minute, but before we go, just thirty seconds or so, what does the president do today? What's his state of mind today? From what you can tell, well, I mean, I think I think you can say he kind of leaned into it a little bit. He did two things, you know, that you might say would be designed to appeal to

religious voters. He voted there's a shrine to Pope John Paul the Second, now Satan John Paul the Second out of northeast Washington. He visited there. He signed an executive order on international religious freedom. So if anyone missed the subtlety of his of his actions last night, he reinforced it today with a pretty um direct appeal to religious voters who were a big part of his twenty sixteen coalition.

Now we've been talking about what's going on, of course across the country and President Trump and his team's wonts to it. Vice President Joe Biden, of course also out there giving some remarks on the civil unrest facing communities across the country. He also wait in on the president. Listen up, President, United States must be part of the solution, not the problem. But this president today is part of

the problem and accelerates it. Let's bring back Craig Gordon, Washington Bureau chief of Bloomberg News, Craig, Joe Biden, Uh, you know, obviously campaigning in a very different way because of the virus. Um, I'm curious about how he addresses the president and his reaction. You know, what it might do for him, what it might do for the country. Yeah, I mean Biden has been, as people know, kind of in as a home and Willmington, Delaware, Uh, you know,

kind of laying love because of the coronavirus. Made his first adventure out yesterday, and now the speech today, I mean, I mean, you know, Joe Biden has to give a speech like this. It's kind of the tone you might expect critical of Trump, kind of more you know, sadness than anger, you might say, um, and and kind of calling people to their to the sort of better angels. Obviously, you know, Joe Biden is a very familiar figure to a lot of Americans. Certainly people know he was vice

president of Barack Obama twice. But you know, I think Joe Biden um prospers in this campaign just by looking like a kind of a steady, sensible alternative to Donald Trump. But ultimately voters are going to decide on Donald Trump. It's really this all elections referendum on Donald Trump. It was we thought it going to be a referenument as coronavirus handling. I think the marks on that are well in.

There's a new mode. Let's pull out today showing people in the USA the country is on the wrong track. That is that is a dangerous number for Donald Trump. Posters always look at right track, wrong track. It's just a very simple way for people to kind of express frustration or fear about the direction of the country's going at With three courters of the country saying wrong track, that's extremely bad news for Trump approval rating, which is

very very low. So Biden kind of can you know he can do well by just sort of showing up looking steady, looking sensible. People know, well, um, he's ser Barack Obama. No, well, he has ties into the black community, a lot of support him on African American voters. That's why he became the nominee. So I think he just like, don't make any mistakes while Trump is over here, Um, you know, starting throwing gasoline on the fire. And I

think that that is all very helpful to Biden. The the bigger, the bigger, you know, way Biden can win this thing is by Trump's overreach and people thinking he's gone into a kind of a dangerous place and taking the country, as we say, down the wrong track. That's all good news for Joe Bidens some presidential hopes, right, and the whole notion as we all know historically, you know, are you better off four years ago? Are you better

off today than you were four years ago? I do want to ask you, Craig, before we let you go. You know that this relationship that the president and the administration is developing with the nation's governors and mayors, who certainly were at the four of the coronavirus respond an hour at the four of the response to this We talked at the top of the conversation about, you know, the president's willingness more than willingness maybe to to send

in the National Guard. But what does it tell us about sort of the more national political scene as we do see governors and mayors and I'm thinking about Mayor Bottoms in Atlanta and other sort of governors and mayors coming to the four how does that change the political calculus, maybe even when it comes to the veepstakes as they say, excuse me, yeah, I mean the mayor Bottoms down there in Atlanta certainly making a case for herself, UM to be to get our look from Joe Biden, who we

know UM has said he will choose a woman for his vice president for running mate. Um He's been encouraged by some of his prominent African American sports to pick an African American woman. He's certally got several to choose from in Kamala Harris, Um C. C Abraham's also from Georgia, a few people like that. I think what's interesting is what we're gonna learn here is how far can push

the Republican governors. While we have been on this phone call, the Texas governor Abbott just came out and said, you know, we don't need the U. S. Military down here. As

he put it, Texans can take care of Texans. So while Abbott was a person who was very eager to kind of push the reopening on the virus front and really kind of walking lock step with Trump on the idea that we need to get the economy back open, you know, and balance economic needs versus the danger from the virus on this question, he's destroying a hard line and saying no, I'm not gonna go there. I'm not gonna let US troops marked to the streets of Austin

and Houston and all the places Dallice in Texas. So I think I think where Trump is right now is that you know, there has been very little reaction from Republicans. You know, almost none have criticized his actions last night. Ben Sas from Nebraska is kind of a frequent Trump critic,

no surprise there. But when you start to have the governors were again right on the front front line of both the virus and the protests starting to push back again, that that suggests um even they think Trump might be over reaching a little bit here. And and that's pretty hardcore Republicans. Now one of those voters in the middle think they might be thinking the same thing. All right, Craig Gordon, always a treat to catch up with you.

Thank you so much. Just love your context in your perspective. Craig Gordon is our executive editor and Washington bureau chief for Bloomberg. Joining us on the phone from Maryland. You are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Well, we can't lose sight of one of the other really big stories going on in the world, and that is another form of protest and another confrontation that's happening, and that is in Hong Kong and with Beijing and everything that's going on

and the repercussions that it's having across the world. It's the subject of a story in Bloomberg Business Week this week. Joel Weber, the editor of the magazine, joins us from Brooklyn. Mark Champions wrote the story. Joel, help us understand the backdrop here. So, uh, last week, pretty significant event happened, which was, um, it really kind of looks like China moved on Hong Kong in a way which has been

obviously brewing for a while, um for years. In fact, um but it has really come to a head and accelerated during the pandemic with this law that that that China has passed um and the a lot of China watchers and Hong Kong watchers are really fearing for the worst. You know. It's really fascinating, you know, reading through this story, Joel, because you know, the more I read about it, I'm like, wow,

the similarities. And of course it's not apples to apples, but this whole idea of just you know, moving more aggressively into an area. Now you know, mind you Hong Kong is under you know, the sovereignty if you will, of China to begin with. But it is interesting how China and President g in particular, are you know, seemingly disinterested in what the rest of the world has to has to say about They're increasing the aggressive moves. That's right.

And and what Mark actually writes in this story is that, um, there's a similarity to what's happening with Hong Kong and jeez, you know, sudden aggression, aggression there or really just aggression there. Um. And and what actually we saw from Putin in teen Um regarding CRIMEA, which also was sort of this this chess move at Um somewhat of an opportune moment for

for him. And you know, the takeaways for both of these is just that you know, while the world is dealing with other things and looking away, there are moves that are made that you cannot unwind. And that's sort of what we're seeing here in Hong Kong, which you know, you guys mentioned you know, there's this de facto system of government there where it's sort of two systems one country, and that's supposed to last until and what we're seeing is that it might not last through the end of

the year. Really, um so, Mark, I just wanted to bring you in, you know, you you I think we're the one who sort of said, you know, this is starting to look like a cremoment and and how how has that sort of manifested itself from your perspective? Yes, I mean that the key thing is, I think if you think of this in terms of, you know, why did the Chinese do what they did, um, and what does it say about how they now view their foreign

policy choices and the West? And then you know, alternatively, if you also think about, well, what does it say about you know, how the West can respond and what you know, what what can actually be done? Um. And so if you think of it in those two ways, UM, there is a lot to be found in common. Uh. So you know, for the from the first point of

view from the Chinese and you're what they are doing. Um. This is a moment a little like you know, putting in two thousand and fourteen where he took this decision knowing that it would for the foreseeable future destroyers relationship with the U for the West, but he had come to a point where he decided there was you know, that was what he wanted to do. It was actually valuable to him to work on anti Americanism, and he

had also given up on trying to work with the US. UM. And really we're at that sort of point, was she now you know, after a couple of years of trade war um. And you know, now you've you've had the stuff with the coronavirus and Trump describing it as a as a Chinese virus and so on, and the Chinese are really just decided there's not not not much to lose by doing stuff that the US and and the

rest of the West will really uh be very upset about. Um. And then secondarily they also understand, as did cut In, that there isn't much that the US or Europe can can do to actually stop what you know, the policy goals that they have, and these are quite historic goals, taking CRIMEA for Russia. I mean in the Hong Kong case, of course, Hong Kong already belongs to China. Everybody acknowledges that.

But but to actually you know, impose control on an area that was becoming quite embarrassing for she He wasn't able to impose an authority order and so on, and so you know, in those two ways I think they are it is a sort of very useful in Ana and Mark, how does this how do you how do you think this will play out for Hong Kong specifically, and then also for those other places in sort of

Chinese um gaze, like you know, thinking of Taiwan for instance. Yes, well, I mean the answer for Hong Kong is is frankly not terribly well. So if if you are a Hong Kong pro democracy protester, um you've been parted this movement which has been quite uh you know, formidable over the last year, um, then you it's the implications of all this a that China no longer cares to hesitate because it doesn't worry so much about what it's gonna what the rest of the world is going to think, or

what it may lose economically. And secondly that the US UH and and in particular and the rest of the West in general, UM will be unable to do anything really for you. That these two things UM don't spell anything very good for you if you're in Hong Kong, UM, and you have to really you know, deal directly in the end with she and the party in UH in Beijing UH, and you know, find a new way, try

and persuade them. I suppose that you know that this new law won't be so swinging, that it will destroy the the independent judiciary and so on, that Hong Kong's financial center and prosperity is based UM. So for for Hong Kong, you know, there's it's a complicated future UM and not not a very uh you know promising one UH.

And then for Taiwan it a little different. I mean, what the effect of the destruction really of the idea of a two U two systems country in one country two systems UM, that the effect of what everything that has been watched over the last year from Taiwan. They watched it closely what was happening in Hong Kong. It's already been to really change the politics in Taiwan. You had a pro independence president who was really trailing in the polls quite badly last year before these protests really

got going and the police response got going. Um and then in January she she won re election, and it's really changed the way that the taiwan Is think about the possibility of, you know, becoming part of that policy of one country, two systems. I have to say, it's it's it's very provocative and it does make me Mark wonder, you know, ultimately what's next in terms of this relationship

between China and the United States. I mean, there's a line in there about China now being basically, you know, America's arch enemy, which is not essentially where I think if you go back a few years where we all thought it was ultimately going. It's a must read. Mark Champion, thank you so much, Bloomberg News senior reporter for international Affairs, joining us on the phone in London along with our Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Webber, on the phone in Brooklyn.

This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. It's time again for our Bloomberg Business Week Small Business Survival Guide check in. For that, we have Demetri Cassini's editor of Bloomberg, on the phone from New Jersey. And so Demitra set this up for us because you have very kindly delivered us, uh, someone to talk about exactly what's going on in this very uncertain time already an uncertain time for small businesses, and

it's only getting harder. Help us understand what's going on. Yeah, Jason, thank you. I mean it is really um, you know, gearing up for reopening. But the past week has been a very very very tough week, one of the toughest weeks in the United States, UM, following the killing of George Floyd. Protests, peaceful protests and interrupted by people coming in uh you know and looting and really creating much

more mayhem. And so this affects small businesses, um really at their core businesses and communities that are really integral to those communities. And so we have been spanning out talking to business owners across the country And one of the first people that my colleague Nick liber who was a contributor to Business Week, spoke to is Rashad West, who owns a restaurant in Minneapolis. UM. He runs a restaurant across the street from the spot where George Floyd

was killed. UM, and we talked to Rashade about what it means to be running. You know, how do you move forward from this right now? And UM, how do you navigate this point in time? So we're shot. Come on in, um, and welcome to Bloomberg Radio. You do join us on the phone in Minneapolis, and UM, you know, first of all, you know, we're so sorry for what your neighborhood is going through at this point. UM, tell us a little bit about what you're seeing and what

it's meant for you and your community. UM, well thanks for having me. UM. Right now, we have very peaceful protests and memorial is actually on the intersection right across from where my restaurant is. So you know, this area is really protected on the neighborhoods making sure nothing violent, dangerous happening. UM. So every day you know we're coming in, people are are grilling, passing food, flashing food and water out, people are bringing their kids, uh, and it's like really

a healing space. So um, right now the community is just coming together and showing showing um solidarity for the black community especially and so we're how wouldn't you sort of put all of this together? You know obviously that the comeback was in part owing to a shutdown of the entire economy. How do these things, these you know, two very traumatic events in different ways, how do they affect your your ability to really continue your business going forward? Um?

I just think as a as a business owner, a small business owner, you're always trying to figure out a way to uh to navigate day by day. So right now it's just really pushing us to to figure out how one wee can support our community first, um, because you know that's that's where we are and they're the ones that allowed us in the neighborhood to to open a business. So figure out how to support our community.

And then um, you know, just after this, after we started buying some balance, um, how we can provide again and continue to do business. So continuously adjusting as as as we all do, and and making making sure that people know we're here for them. That's that's really number

one right now. We haven't really thought about much else to meet your come on back in, UM, because you've been you know, you know, managing the Small Business Survival Guide and the coverage, and it certainly has gone from you know, so much focused on the virus to obviously it's so much more than that now. Yeah. I mean, I think um Rashad shared with me earlier and others that we're talking to that in a way, UM, you know that that now the virus very important. It's important.

Of course, it's still be wary of that, but that has become a secondary concern in some ways because this is fundamentally so much more challenging. But UM, I think, as he also said, it's it's for for many take it a day at a time, UM, take the step to camp first, to ensure that your community is okay.

Because without your community being okay, you know what, what's the point if your business is going to be okay in the midst of a community, that is the part that is you know, really sort of mourning, UM or just trying to rebuild. So it is especially challenging right now. We've talked about so many things over the last few weeks having to do with funding and money and loan and and this doesn't even come close to that level.

But I think if there's a strong community to build on, as there are resources, your chambers of commerce and all, you know you'll find the support you need. And especially leaders like business leaders like Rishad who see themselves as community leaders to not just a business owner. Risha just got about fifty seconds left. Here are you getting the support that you need? Financial and other? Um? Absolutely, community has UM has rallied around UM everybody that lives in

the area. UM financially you know where we uh will be okay UM. And then they did set up a go fund me just just because you know, operations have completely stop so UM it was nice for them to do that, a friend to do that for our business. And you know we're gonna make through UM, but we make sure everybody is healed, you know, right well, our hard to with you good luck with everything, UH, and

we know it's an incredibly difficult time. But we also know that you know, and we know this from Demetri's work and our own, that small businesses really are the backbone of community, is the backbone of this country in many ways, from an employment perspective, but also as gathering places at at times of great need where we all sort of need to lean on each other. Richad west Uh He is the owner of Dragon Walk. It is

in the Bryant neighborhood of Minneapolis. Are thanks to him as well as to Demetri Cassa needs looking after the Small Business Survival Guide Critical Critical project at Bloomberg Business Week. Carol, Yeah, and truly in the thick of it, uh, in terms of what we've been dealing with the virus over the last few months, and then of course with the death of George Floyd a journal Now, but you at me drive? Oh no, no, no no, no, home honey please, I'll do

the riding velvet me. I want to drive, Just drive, baby, the questions trying. This is the drive to the Globe community. Thanks, we'll drying us down on Bloomberg Radio. It is time for the drive to the close. Back with us as Kevin Barry, He's chief investment officer at the independent registered advisor investment advisor cap Trust. He joins us on the phone from Raleigh, North Carolina. So, Kevin, nice to have you back with us. Um tell us about life and Raleigh. Um,

how are you guys doing well? You know, it came from New York City, in which case I would have been in an apartment for the last ninety days. I'm going a much better moved down here, and I know Jason's from Atlanta. What interesting things about here and Raleigh is, um, it's actually affordable. You can actually be a hipster by a warehouse and convert into a bar or something, so you know, you can afford more than the hat, right, A lot of folks are so expensive, but here you can.

Actually there's so much happening. So many young people going to school here, stay in the area working at biotech companies. It's a very vibrant area. And I'm delighted to be here. Yeah. It's a great town, you know, and you've got the whole you know, research Triangle Park thing going on. You've got, as you say, some great universities, and people love living there. One of my closest friends moved from New York back

home there. She's a Wake Forest grad and uh has a great house in Raleigh and just raves about life down there. I do wonder, you know, being a step removed from from New York City and you know, some of the especially the virus hotspots, and we can talk about some of the other things that are clearly going on in the world. You know, I do wonder if your lens is a little bit different for how you think about not just investing, but but the economy. We yeah,

we do see. Obviously we're not as you know, people are much more socially distant naturally here right because they're they're not taking some ways to work, etcetera. So on the other hand, my niece, for example, is at Duke University. She's working on a COVID store right now, so being posted close to the biotechniques that we're kind of very

close to what's happening in that standpoint. So, you know, the economy, it's interesting to see kind of outside of the city during this whole period of time, even when the quarantines are on, you can see construction work going on here, repaving, you know, sort of outdoor work was

still happening here. So that has been pretty interesting. Um. Yeah, you know, Kevin, one of the things that we've been talking to we're gonna talk a little bit later on is with everything that's going on in the world, how e s G. I feel like all of a sudden, everybody's coming out and saying, you know, check out our E S G platform. You know, if you want companies at stress, equality, diversity, fairness, UM and the like, you know, then you know you're going to want to invest with

us kind of kind of thinking. And I do think it is important that companies increasingly move forward on these types of initiatives because that can certainly money money money talks right and brings about changes in society. And I do wonder how, if at all that is some of what's you're hearing from some of your investors at cap Trust. That's a great question. We've actually been running that kind of money for over twenty five years, you know, and a long time ago was mostly what you're not going

to buy. I don't like this, we don't like that, And now we're incorporating um many more positive aspects into it. But you know what's really interesting now, more than half of our employees are millennials. And for a firm to grow, we've been a rapidly growing firm. For firms grow, you have to attract talent, and you're getting grilled by the talent on your internally f g policies even before you

design products for clients. I think that's really interesting. So when you look around the world and you sort of rank the worries, Kevin, you know, we we've obviously talked a lot about the civil unrest over the past couple of days. We've been talking for weeks and now months about the virus. But you know, you think about what's going on between Beijing and Hong Kong and the US China trade tensions and political and economic tensions. How do you sort of rate those in terms of what could

be the most disruptive for an investor. Sure, so I think the China is very interesting right now, and you've put guys are probably done stories or there's a dollar shorage in Hong Kong. You know, people who are living there trying to switch to Hong Kong dollar for US dollar, and that's a sign. We see that in gold, right, and we see it into continued strength of the dollar overall. I think it's in what we've had the last three months as an extraordinary event. I've seen a lot of

recessions and a lot of down dress, nothing like this. Actually, the shock does remind me of Not eleven a little bit and back to the seventy three seventy four shock. But um, it's it. This is an extraordinary time. And I think it's also so meaningful that it's occurred during an election year, coming up to an election year, because we have, uh see, bipartisan support for tremendous spending on the fiscal side and tremendous support on the monetary policy side.

I'm not sure we would have gotten that much some more support, um if if it wasn't an election year, right that, Yes, yeah, I think absolutely. I mean, who wants to go to the ballot box and saying I'm voting against loans to small business, I'm voting against our unemployment benefits. So you have both parties. There doesn't seem to be any anyone advocating much in the way of fiscal discipline right now, right, And I think part of that is it's definitely it's election season, so how could

you do? How could you though? I mean above me on it being an election year, right, Yes, I agree, I agree. But there are some some folks who are very focused on deficit, you know, bringing down the depth of fit, reducing deficits to either through reduced spending or increased taxes, and right now people are saying just what you're saying, Carol, like, you know what, let's just take care of people. Let's pass the bill and let's take

care of people. And that's what's happening. And so I think I'm grateful that it's happening, but I but I'm also wondering if it would have been as generous if it wasn't an election year. That's just sad. Sorry, Oh, I'm sorry, Okay, that's my opinion. Everyone. It's you know. The good thing is we got it right, We've gotten this aid and we'll probably get more eight it's our expectation that will be another program probably late later this month with additionally um which we need. And I'm happy

that we're getting it. And so, you know, you mentioned nine eleven Kevin, And obviously something that folks look at after that for obvious reasons was the travel industry, the airline industry. What do you see in this case, because you know, we're looking at you know, volumes that are down US percent. Is their short term hope for that or is this something that's a longer term play? How

do you look at that sector? Sure, So you know, I was in Manhattan and nine eleven, and you know, I remember a lot of you know that too well. There are a lot of people who said, I'm never going to fly again, just not going to do it. And airline traffic dropped precipitously over the next several months, but a year later we were back to of the airline traffic we had we had before. So it's interesting. The other thing that's interesting today, and I actually had

to read it. It was on Bloomberg and I had to read like five times, was um the Carnival. Some of the carnival crews somewhat of major sort of travel agency saying that when day this Carnival announced that they were going to start sailing again, bookings were up I think SI over the same period last year. And I thought to myself, I would have I would have thought that would be the last, very last thing to come back,

the very last thing thing like that. And yet there are people who want to continue to sort of go back to quote normal. It is. It's an amazing world, all right, Kevin Barry, good to check out with you. Thanks so much for giving us the opinion and the insights. Down in Raleigh, North Carolina, chief investment Officer for Cap Trust Carroll Resiliency. Right, yeah, it comes back. It's interesting.

Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, South Cloud, Bloomberg dot com, or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course you can always listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News