Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Carol Masser and tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio. You may remember on Wednesday, United Airline CEO Scott Kirby warned that geopolitical tensions risk disrupting what's been a pretty hot start to the year. Here's what he said to Bloomberg's Lisa Brohmowitz. Quote, We're the largest global airline from the US. We're exposed to all levels that are all
around the globe. He later noted it would cause short term pain, but his airline will quote stay focused on the long term.
I have to say it does feel like executives we've talked about JP Morgan's Jamie Diamond, the conversation with David Rubinstein when he talks about what could maybe, you know, create some problems within financial markets, and he talks about like what's going on around the globe and geopolitics. We're increasingly hearing folks point.
To that that's exactly what we want to talk about. With Stamatis and Tanas, chairman and chief executive officer of Synergy Maritime Holdings and founder, chairman and c of United Maritime Corporation. The two firms together, they're microcaps, they're traded in the US. Together, they have a total of twenty five ships. They carry grains, wheat, corn, steel, copper, oil and more all over the world. Stamatis is back here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio.
Welcome back, Thank you, nice to be here.
We spoke to you last over the summer in July, and that was a time of geopolitical tension too, but it was a different type of geopolitical tension. Are things more or less stable in your view than they were then?
Well, suddenly they're less stable. I mean, you have so many things going on around the world. You have disruptions, you have like pot themselves, wars, all these things happening, and you have all this new military drive that people need to start building things again, which is not just for real estate, but you needed four strategic visions, defense and all that. So you know, shipping and raw materials of steel Boux heied, I don't ore and coal they become more and more relevant all the time.
So tell us what you're saying over doing a trip to India during the financial crisis and trying to understand you you've got a great view of this being an emerging market and driving somewhere in the middle of the night and seeing all the big trucks and really understanding the build and the moving of materials around. You have
such a great vantage point of that. So with the stuff that's going on around the globe, whether it's from the White House, whether it's from other regions, whether it's China, what has shifted in terms of where the ships are going and where activity is happening and what's being moved around.
Well, first of all, you have a commodity is rally right. I mean, you have gold, you have silver, you have thin, you have copper. You have all these prices surging to these levels. And I strongly believe that you're going to see aluminum, you can have steel, and all these things coming up a lot because demand is so strong for these products.
So there's more movement of all of this.
I strongly believe you can have a lot of movement for that because it's not just a good to have real estate or house, but it's theategic, it's defense, it's military, So you can have a lot of these things going on. On top of that, you also have the AI, You need to upgrade the power grids, you need to create all these data centers, and all these things require vast amounts of metals you know that we transport, So it's pretty much important these days.
The geopolitical disruptions as far as what's happening out there while the ships are out there, have you had to make changes to routes as a result of any issues as a result of countries military doing operations in certain places. We saw the disruptions around Venezuela in that region, just the commercial airlines for example, when Nicholas Maduro was brought to the United States.
Have you been affected by any of that?
Well, of course, I mean Red Sea has been out of the question for more than a year now. Black Sea is out of the question because of missiles going on board ships. So we tend to avoid this kind of area. So the more places you avoid, the more diversions you have for the ships, the longer distances you make, and the more ships unit reads go up.
Unfortunately, what are your biggest costs?
Is it?
Give us an idea? I mean, these ships are not cheap. Walk us through some of the dynamics or the financials here.
Well, inflation is everywhere, right, Building ships today has surged a lot because you know all these ottle materials you need to build the ships and then have fuel. But fuel has been quite stable and as yeah. Yeah, but building the ship has actually gotten way more expensive. That's how it is, you and that's also strategic. I mean, China has been building a lot of ships recently, and
prices keep going up and up all the time. So you know, the US at the certain point need to start building ships.
Are you building?
We are?
We are building some ships, yes, okay, Yes, in China and Japan.
You are, yes, okay, are but the US is not.
No, you don't see a lot of building activity here.
Well, the President hopes there will be some military ship building activity here.
We all hope that there's going to be some building activity here as well. But just going to wait then, say when that's going to take place.
Do you think the US can build the ships that the President wants to see?
Well, there's nothing that you want to buy.
There's nothing that the US cannot do, to be honest, It's just going to be a matter of cost and time. Yeah, So we're just going to wait and see. Hey, speaking of that, in the US.
Over the last year, we've seen a push toward bringing manufacturing back to the United States, the tariffs that have gone into effect, the tariffs that have been used as a cudgel against countries to get with the president wants. In your view, does that eventually lead to fewer goods traded between countries to the less of.
A need for your services. It should, but it doesn't happen. Global trade has been going up year after year. You have all these containerships actually being ordered and built and everything. So in theory that's a very correct statement. But in practical terms, I think global trade this keeps going up every year after year, and it's unstoppable.
Why Why is it unsoppable?
Because you need infrastructure so in order to create and it's just consumer goods. Consumer goods is only a partner shipping, right all the heavy things, which is oil, oil products, metals, I don't or coal, box side and all that. I mean that keeps increasing year after year all the time.
What's the biggest part of your business in terms of the stuff that you move around.
It's mostly out and ore and we do a lot of box side and coal, so we move around twenty million tones of for materials every year, and that's a lot log.
Holes, that is long hauls. I am also curious about in terms of trade routes. I think, you know, with the US kind of pushing back and tariffs and so on and so forth, are you seeing more trade just in general between China and other parts of the world.
Where are you.
Seeing increases where are you seeing decreases?
Well, China has been increasing their imports in iron and coal year after year. China has been producing fifty six percent of the global STILL production. So whatever you need still, you need to get it mostly from China. That's how it works. You have about five trillion dollars of committed infrastructure projects globally, so that's a huge amount of STILL you're going to require in the next few years, excluding
data centers and everything associated with that. So you're going to require a lot of STILL in the next few years. And China has been very well prepared in importing a lot of fraumatials.
But I think we're also that's fascinating because it's just a reminder of supply chains where things are right. But what about in terms of the pushback, Is there more trade between China and Europe. I think we're trying to assess what are the relationships around the world, and the US continues it feels like some say to alienate certainly its allies in other parts of the world. But is that really happening from what you see in terms of the activity.
Well, all these stative talk and all these port views and everything that has been in discussions for the last year or so, that hasn't really slowed down China at all. China has been important big quantities of flat and ore and boux side and all that. So year after year they continue to increase their production of steel and aluminum and all these strategic metals that you're going to require
for the future. So yes, China is still very vital part of the global commodities and especially the metals.
We're speaking with.
Stamatist Santanas is the chairman and CEO of Synergy Maritime Holdings and founder, chairman and CEO of United Maritime Corporation. You transport oil around the world.
We transport mostly at a oracle and box side.
That's okay, we do, but also but also.
Yeah, we used to have a few oil transportation ships tankers, but we sold them a few years ago at the.
Pick, would you get back into it.
The answer is yes, at the next part of the cycle, we will definitely get back into tankers. What part of the cycle, Well, it's all times high right now, so as at values and freight rates are at this peak of old pick. So we will wait for the right time in the cycle. Maybe it's going to be next year or the year after, and we're definitely going to get back into that.
Do you see Venezuela as an opportunity for you to ship oil from to other parts of the world.
Venezuela it's still not a big part of the transportation of oil globally. The only do like a few hundred thousand battles per day, so that's not really important and vital right now. Maybe it's going to get to a point in the next few years, and I'm hopeful they will, but so far we don't really see them as making any material difference in seaborn oil.
You just back from Davos, Yes, talk to us about what you heard on the ground, what you thought was interesting. We've just talked with our David Weston of Wall Street Week, and you know how so much of what the conversations evolved once again around President Donald Trump. But I'm just curious your take on the ground and what you were hearing and seeing.
Well, it's all about infrastructure, it's all about defense, it's all about military spending. It's all about alliances. So people don't talk so much about you know, diversion and inclusiveness and all these things anymore. They talk about strategic stuff. So it's completely different. I mean, the narrative in Davos, it's all about the future of alliances, of infrastructure, real estate.
I was at the with Eric Trump the other day and he all talked about, you know, about the projects of the family in the Middle East and how spectacular that he expects to be in the next few years. So you hear a lot about the real estate, infrastructure, and of course defense and alliances. That's what you're here.
What are you doing like between the you know, with the Middle East that you can tell. I mean, it just seems like they're certainly looking to diversify their economy, investing in sports, investing in lots of different projects, technology and so on and so forth. How do you see it in terms of what they're doing and the activity.
The Middle East? Is a spectacular place. That's all I can say. I mean the amount of development you see there. Everything's modern, everything's new, everything's in huge scale. So I'm very hopeful that the next few years the Middle East, especially the UAE and Saudi Arabia, will continue to be investing hundreds of billions of dollars into these beautiful, big new buildings.
Stomatas just got thirty seconds left here a word or two that you would describe the global economy right now or for twenty twenty six as you see.
It, Well, it will continue to be very, very challenging. I think that we're going to see way more important disruptions happening and trading routes being kind of broken down. But shipping has always been very agile to adopt in whatever geopolitical or what have you changed, This has happened. We've did COVID, we did everything, so it's going to be fine.
We know you've been on the road a lot, and I know you're headed home, but thanks so much for finding time in stopping by our studios. Stamata Santanas He is chairman and CEO. I've seen energy, maritime holdings and also of the United maritime corporation synergy. Forgive me maritime holdings. This is bloomger