Tonix Pharmaceuticals CEO on COVID-19 Vaccine Progress

us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week Carol Masser along with Paul Sweeney. So we do need to get into the virus and take a look at some of the headlines, certainly that we've seen, because what we're seeing is COVID nineteen cases really tick higher around the globe. Let's get our daily check on the virus. So when we've reached out to several times over the summer, most recently in late August,

is Dr Seth Letterman. He's chairman, president, CEO, and founder of the New York based specialty pharmaceutical company Tonics Pharmaceuticals, and he joins us on the phone in New York City. Dr Letterman, so great to have you here with Paul and myself. How are you? Um well, thank you, but alarmed at the increasing cases in some of these states. We'll talk to me about that. I too am alarmed.

And you know, I was talking last week that I was watching some of the evening news programs and just to see the maps where there are increasing cases of COVID nineteen again, and basically the country was blanketed with increases in cases. I look around the globe, I'm seeing the same thing. And you know, what we talked about last week is here we go. Here is the second wave, it seems in some of the places, for example Montana,

maybe the Dakotas, it's really the first wave. And it's unfortunate that the message about mask wearing and social distancing didn't get out in front of it. But I think that part of part of the problem in places they're experiencing their first wave is that there was perhaps it

come lacency that it wouldn't happen to them. But I'm encouraged that in places like New York City and other places have already had fair number of COVID cases that the increase is much more blunted, and I think it's evidence of both some amount of herd immunity and also that people are more concerned about social distancing and more

compliant with wearing masks. So dr you know, I watched a lot of football over the weekend, college football, professional football, and boy, I saw a lot of people in the stands, particularly in a lot of the markets and Texas and other places. Not so much uh in the Northeast, But it still seems to be a regional issue about some of the basic principles have been trying to follow social distancing, wearing masks, washing hands, and it's just not resoning with people.

And I just to me that is probably as big an issue as the impending cold weather. It's frustrating to me. I'm a as you know, a doctor and a drug developer, So why people resist wearing masses beyond my understanding. All I can say is that if people did follow the basic tenants of wearing masks, observing social distancing, washing hands, that there would be a lot less pain and suffering.

But I'm not sure how in a free society we can mandate it further than it has been mandated well, it does make me wonder then you know what we do. It's interesting. I was watching was It sixty minutes over the weekend and they did a whole thing on some of the treatments that are out there in terms of treating the virus and asked, you know, various doctors and they made a point in the piece of saying when they were asking what would you rather have a vaccine or mask? And I think I'm to all of them

were like, I want to mask. We know it works, it's really easy. It makes such a difference. But but you're right, it's you know, in Asia, it's you know, in a lot of Asian countries, it's mandatory. There's an app like there's all these things that you don't really have a choice. In the US, um it's a very very different story. So so Dr Letterman, where do we go from here? What? What how do you see like the next six months or twelve months playing out for us? Well,

there's some encouraging signs. I think that as I mentioned New York City, there's widespread mask wearing, almost universal, and things are really I think roaring back people are they know how serious this can be and and and how effective mask wearing and other UH standard practices can be But I'm also very encouraged by the developments of therapeutics and vaccines and uh, contrary to I guess the plur lality of opinions on sixty minutes, I would prefer to

have a vaccine, but it would have to be a vaccine that will take a while to develop, that would provide durable immunity and would optimally prevent spreading, because that's really the type of vaccine that can stop a pandemic in its tracks. Well, but how long does that take? Adorable because I'm sorry, no, no, please go ahead. It takes a while, because what we really need to know.

I think that the first vaccines that are being studied now, and some of them seem very interesting, they will have data from people who have been infected within a month or two or three months after getting vaccinated, and I think it's likely that the protection of the vaccines some maybe all of them that are in part of Operation warp speed will provide that kind of short term protection.

But a really important question is whether they will be protective a year out, And the difference between that early protection and later protection is mostly antibodies. So antibodies protect early on, but then they fade, and what's important in long term protection is T cell immunity. So I think that it will take a while two show that a

vaccine will have durable protection. All right, So, dr is this gonna be a cocktail of potential remedies vaccines or do you think one blockbuster is gonna come on the market and just kind of be the one. Well, I think it will be an evolution. I think the first vaccines may not be the best, and there will be an evolution, That's what I imagine. And then it may very likely be that different vaccines will be better for

people at different stages of life. For example, older people may need a different vaccine, which is already the case for flu and other vaccines. And then there could be different vaccines for people with different levels of immune competence. So people with healthy immune systems may benefit from call it a stronger vaccine, and people who have problems in their immune system might benefit from call it a weaker vaccine.

That the important thing about a really effective vaccine is a really effective vaccine can stop people from spreading it so that they can really end this phenotype of a super spreader and and if that becomes nullified, and obviously a lot of lives will be saved. And Dr Letterman, you know, I think one of the issues is where there's the science part of it, and that's so difficult, but we've got some great minds around the world focusing

on it. And then assuming the science has worked out in a vaccine or vaccines plural is UH found, then the question becomes, all, now we've got to produce this thing, We've got to distribute this thing becomes the whole sales channel, the whole uh and that is a daunting task. How

are you thinking about that? Well, and it's an issue certainly, but Operation Warp Speed has been remarkable in the way that they have planned to distribute approximately a hundred million doses of six to eight different vaccines and now a number of therapies to many Americans. There's also obviously the global issue um and issues that global access, but just focusing on the United States, it is a huge logistical challenge, but one that is being tackled by by Warp Speed,

at least with these medicines. And I believe there's been discussion about since the administration has UM paid for the development of these products, UM and in some cases purchase them that even the cost of obtaining them is going to be reasonable or subsidized by the government, which is kind of mind blowing that whole process. So you know, one thing I want to know, um, Dr Letterman, is you guys have a couple of vaccines, specifically, can you just give us an update on on where they are

and and the progress of them. Sure, our vaccines are based on live replicating viruses. One is based on horsebox, the other on something called Bovon Perry influenza virus. And we are working on live replicating viruses because they are known to to trigger T cell immunity, and we will not be the first. We're not part of warp Speed, but we think that the long term solution of this

is to have vaccines that trigger T cell immunity. We envision that either Hours or one of the other companies working in this small area of the vaccine programs might someday become a childhood vaccine, something like MMR Mum's Measles Rebella. Because we think we have to think not only about the people that are alive today, but future generations are

going to have to contend with COVID nineteen. This this virus is not going anywhere, and it will be something we believe that humans will have to contend with for the rest of time. Hey, just a quick follow Just got about forty seconds here I mentioned herd mentality. I know that it's been talked about, some have said it could be productive here. We're going to talk about it a bit a little bit later on our broadcast. Just

quickly your take on that. I think the good news is that it appears there's that people who recover have an immunity to the virus. It's something that we couldn't have said six months ago. The virus only been around for nine months. So um, that's very encouraging. And certainly I think the flat UH infection rates and sickness rates in New York suggests that there's some level of her immunity.

It's surprising because the number of people with antibody responses are lower than you would expect to be required for her immunity. But we believe that the missing piece is that there are a number of people with T cell immunity that either don't have antibodies or had antibodies in one way. So I am encouraged about the prospects of her immunity and we may get it before there's even a vaccine. So glad to get your thoughts on that.

Really really appreciate that. Dr Seth Ledderman, thank you so much, Chief Executive Officer, Tonics Pharmaceuticals, on the phone from New York City. But it's you know, I feel like every time I have a conversation with someone, Paul, from the medical community, you know, you really do learn something, whether it's t sales, whether it's you know, the different paths to like getting this under control. Yep, absolutely, and we just need to be continued on that learning curve. Yeah,

no doubt. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Cairol Masser on Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week Carol Masser along with Paul Sweeney on this Monday. So P P P. You know, the Paycheck Protection Program was part of the two trillion dollar Cares Act. Well, it was set up to offer forgivable loans to small businesses that would help kind of keep them going through the lockdowns here in the US. But things didn't go exactly as plan.

They never do. Here with her Business Week story, Bloomberg News Finance reporter Michelle Davis. She's on the phone in Vermont along with Joel Webber, Bloomberg business Week editor. He joins us on the phone from Massachusetts. You know, Joe, it's just never straight lines, especially when you're dealing with tons and tons of money and trying to get it

out to people fast. Yeah. What's what's interesting about this story? Um. That totally caught our attention the moment that Michelle started talking to us about it was that, you know, this is the story is about the best intentions, um. And when the p p P program originated, there there were a ton of small businesses that were left in a world of hurt because they didn't have existing relationships with

the big banks. So the big banks actually turned to the vendors who they had existing relationships with, and within a blink of an eye, two thirds of that money was out the door and small businesses were left reeling.

And to make up for that in the second round of p p P loans, by that point, um uh, they the rules sort of got a little bit looser and instead of just having big banks be the ones that could be lenders, they also turned to fintech and in the process, turns out months later we can look back on some of this data and as Michelle did, and it turns out that there was a fair amount of fraudsters that were taking handouts and all of this. Michelle, how did you find out that that that was that

was even happening and what did the data show? So I read through all of the criminal complaints that have come out on PPP fraud, you know, all of the Department of Justice UH filings and all of the court systems, and I cross referenced a lot of the information there with some data that the Small Business Administration UH releases publicly on you know, how many loans have been awarded and the lenders on the other side of those loans, and in you know, identifying these lenders, I found that

UH fin techs and non bank online lenders handled seventy for seventy percent of the loans that are currently you know, being probed for fraud, even though when you look at the five point two million loans that were issued as part of the program, FinTechs were only on fifteen percent of those, So, you know, fifteen versus seventy five percent percent of the ones that are currently being looked at

for fraud. It's definitely a pretty alarming trend. And part of the issue seems to be that in the rush to get this money out, a lot of these FinTechs, you know, they had good intentions, which was to to get money to entities, but banks weren't doing business with because you know, they didn't have existing religion just with But it seems because a lot of it was automated, there wasn't a lot of due diligence done, and so you know, in a lot of the cases I looked at,

it was evident that if if someone had just conducted a public record records sarach or you know, Google there these companies, they would have realized that millions of dollars were being sent to businesses that didn't exist, didn't have employees, or you know, had been dormant for years before the

pandemic started. Wow. So, Michelle, this is a fascinating story. Unfortunately, when we heard about the p p P program, we kind of said, boy, this looks like an area we're gonna see a lot of money changing hands in area right for fraud? Do we have any senses to the total dollars kind of involved here. So the cases brought by d o J so far only represent around a hundred and seventy five million in alleged alleged fraud, which is, you know, a really small fraction of the five billion

in loans that have been approved. But I talked to someone at pay net, which is a unit of Equifax, and they, you know, conducted an analysis of all the loans larger than a hundred fifty thousand dollars, and they said about five percent of those raised red flags to them and looked you know, sketchy, warranted some due diligence. So that's about up to twenty billion dollars worth of potential fraud. And that's just for loans bigger than a

hundred fifty thousand. The same person that paint out said if if he had access to the smaller loans, the number would probably be a lot bigger because those are you know, loans that don't get as much scrutiny. Another interesting trend related to that is that the fintex actually tended to process some of these smaller loans that even the SBA has said it's not going to audit as much as the bigger loans and and Michelle, you're reporting

it was pretty fascinating. I thought it was telling that some of these loans were actually processed by fintech so quickly that the people who were requesting the money were actually shocked at how quickly they got it. Who were some of the big fintech players and all of this.

So Cabbage Online lender, who before this had never processed the single SBA loan, ended up becoming the second biggest PPP leunder by application volume, you know, after they got approval to participate, and they appeared quite a bit in my analysis, as did lenders like Crossover Bank and UH Celtic Bank, which these are kind of these behind the scenes fintech banks. That partner was a ton of fintech and they provide the funding while the fintech, you know,

we'll do the processing on the front end. Blue Line was another one that showed up a ton and UH. An interesting stat related to Cabbage in particular was that it turns out seventy of the applications but Cabbage process flowed through without any human intervention or manual review, and they said that the medium approval time for you know, their loans was four hours, but I found people who who got their loans approved in as little as an hour.

That's including like not only process by the fintech but also SPA has already you know, signed off in the proof that agreed to issue the funds and meanwhile, you know, thanks were taking weeks in some cases to spend some of this money out. So I don't want to get

ahead of myself here in Michelle. But if there were to be more stimulus that could help small businesses, is there any sense if there are any additional sort of fail safes that are in place yet or could be and put in place before a new wave of help went out to small businesses. I think a lot of this revolved around the actual Cares Act, which UH in it, it says that you know that the government will hold harmless any lenders that basically take borrowers representations at face value.

So if the borrowers says like I'm eligible for this loan, the lender can't get in trouble for you know, believing that if that turns out to be true. But there is a lot of questions around, you know, just what how do you define negligence if if someone says I deserve this loan, but actually, you know, there's no record of there being a business. You know, what is the wonder's responsibility? And that's instance. I think it's the law.

You know, if there were a little more clarity around what they were responsible for, how much diligence is required, this sort of situation can probably be avoided. Yeah, we knew that there were gonna be problems as we rushed out to get money because people really needed it. But nonetheless, as the details come out as you report, Michelle, it's just a little bit um, you know, unsettling, to say

the least. Jill Webber, of course, editor of Bloomberg Business Week, on the fund from Massachusetts and check out Michelle Davis is her story. It's in the current issue of Bloomberg Business Week that's online on the Bloomberg and on newsstand. She's finance reporter at Bloomberg News. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer on Bloomberg Radio. All right, everybody, time for the Monday edition of Bloomberg Business Week. Economics.

There a new survey out from Pew Research. They talked with our surveyed fourteen nations with advanced economies. And while many of the findings are to be expected, some not so much. So let's get into it with Blueberg New Economy editorial director Andy Brown. It's his latest column, and Andy joins Paul. So we need me on the phone from New Hampshire. So Andy tell us UM a little bit about this survey and what they set out to do. Yeah. So, Pew has been running these surveys now for many years.

It's the survey of global opinion and national opinion. And what has joined everybody's attention this year is that global views of China have turned sharply negative. UM. And it's obvious why. Most people around the world, according to this survey, believe that China had watched the response the coronavirus. There was a cover off. They denied. Local officials in whant denied that was human to human transmission, and they silence doctors,

whistle blow are doctors? Um? And you know, as a result of that, the image of President Ji Jimping has suffered very badly. Majorities around the world. In these fourteen countries, the world's richest, most advanced democracies don't trust Jiping to do the right thing in global affairs according to the Peace that's the story everybody focused on, But it's only

half of the story. The country that did way way worse than China and the leader that performed more even more poorly than Ji jimping with the United States and Donald Trump, and you know, the story there, frankly, is that there is no global leadership. Both of these great powers have come out of coronavirus with their reputation in

castle globally. So it's interesting here is there a concern as it relates to China, that this wasn't something that just escaped from the country, that perhaps it was something from the central government, as some conspiracy theorists believe. Yeah, you know, that's that's that's what the conspiracy conspiracy theorists say. But look, this was a response in two parts. I mean, so the first part of this was the botched initial response.

Much of this occurred at the local level, and of course it's it's it points up failures in China's government system. A lot of people think that local officials basically didn't want to put up the balloon in Wuhan because they thought that the central leadership didn't want to hear bad news. The second part of the story, however, is that China came through this way better than almost any other country in the world. Their response was decisive. They went into lockdown.

They more or less they completely not see the virus under control. And now the country has opened back up the game. They're having rock concerts in Wuhant where it all began. So really very much as you know, two stories there on COVID well, and I do wonder like now what you know, it's remarkable, right as you said, both leaders, you know, not very good global views on either of them, but it is remarkable that the US is even worth you know, is it is it all

Donald Trump? And is it all his handling of the virus or is it really kind of the past four years? Um? So you know, essentially what's happened, what's occurred now is that and and and and the surprise, I guess the surprising thing from this survey is that attitudes towards both China and the US were measured in countries that are all allies or close friends of the United States. And you know, what's what's what's probably shocking and should be shocking.

I think to exchange to the White House, is that this occurred in a year when China was condemned internationally for human rights abuses in hi Jong, for cracking down on civililities in Hong Kong, for intimidation of Taiwan, for it's asserted policies in the self China. See all of this combined, and yet the United States UH and the Trump administration still come come across UH come out of this,

so they worse than China. So it really tells you I think, you know, yes about China standing in the world, but I think much more dramatically about America standing and so any that kind of begs the question that, you know, as we get past this pandemic on a global scale again not sure when that is, but what will be the role of the United States visa v. China. It really seems like China was on this ascendency, the US pulling back with this America First credo. But I'm not

sure that's still the case here. I mean, I don't think, as you point out here at the Pew research data, neither of the supposed leaders scored well exactly. So you know, there are some people that think that as a result of this election that will snap back where it was before in the United States was going to reclaim its position of leadership in the liberal global order, whatever that

may need. Other people, on the other hand, think that China is going to take advantage of its surgeic economy the way that it came back and and it's done so well, Uh, there's the coronavirus and is going to replace the United States going to build a parallel set of institutions. Neither, of course, according or the inference from this sub is forget it. Neither of those scenarios is going to happen. The world is leadership lacking leadership right now.

The best that we can expect, I think, is a far more transactional type of relationship between between the United States and China and the world that really um lacks direction. UM have shifting coalitions between groups of countries, UM, but essentially nobody in chop well you know, and you know, Andy,

we've talked about this before. I do wonder, depending you know, the outcome of the November election, if we do have a change in the White House, how quickly, how easily can let's say, a Biden White House repair some of the strained relationships that have resulted over the last for four years. And just got about forty seconds here. Yeah, I don't think that it's it's possible to heal uh this trust deficit uh quickly? Um. Uh, you know, trust

once it's the trade is very difficult to rebuild. China's in denial. It blames the foreigners of cause for foreign forces for all its problems. The United States at least it does have an opportunity to correct. And this is said to be one of the great strengths of democracy. Uh. Is this writing mechanism, and there is an opportunity that voters have and in November uh to um to start to to fix the problem. Yeah. Interesting, Andy Brown, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it all

the time. We appreciate your perspective of all things China. Bloomberg New Economy Editorial director Andy Brown. There, I mean really causing the question. I love your your question. There is it just simply calling up all allies and saying, just forget the last four years, we're back right exactly. And he's written about this. I mean there's a lot that's already happened, and you know, nations and alliances have moved forward as we've moved in a different direction as

a nation. So um time will certainly tell, and of course certainly be on. I would think on the top of the to do list for the next present, whoever that may be. I bro journal now, but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no no, no, honey, please, I'll do the riding drivels me. I want to drive, Just drive, baby, the questions trying. This is the drive to the globe. Thanks well, drying us on Bloomberg Radio. Caroli was just looking the drive to the close today. Carol's me with J. J. Kinahan,

chief market stratagist TV A merritory. He joins us on the phone from Chicago. J J. Carro and I have been batting back and forth here and as investors have as well. Kind of the disconnect between financial markets and the economy. Is it simply a function of Federal Reserve j pal having the spickets on and showing no signs of turning them off. If that's what this trade is all about, well, if, well, I think that's part of it.

I also think that if you look at a day like today, you know, the faint stock let's face it over the last few weeks have not been exact, had much fang to them, so to speak. Uh, those coming alive. I think also shows that people are looking a little bit forward and saying, okay, if if, if we do have a market sell off, you know, because of election or anything like that, or some sort of slow down, which stocks still do well. They do. And actually if we go back to work, which stocks still do well.

And again it becomes primarily the technolog argy stocks because they've added clients and they've added sticking clients during the past few months. So there's also let's face at Apple and you know, Amazon leading the way with a little bit of excitement because they both have major events coming up tomorrow. And you wonder how much of this is the sort of by the rumors sell the news a little bit, which they both have a little bit of

a history of. Not to say that longer term they haven't gone higher after that, but often they rally into either Prime Day or Apple conference. Speaking major events, it's a big week for banks, and I do wonder what are your expectations and how they might kind of help the trade here JJ and maybe overshadow some of investors focus on the virus if you will, and on further

relief and aid from policymakers. Sure, girl. I think that that's going to come down to one major thing, you know, as you see it early, and that's going to be their trading and how well they've gone there be because that's obviously been a big part of their earnings the last two quarters, and I think will be another big part of their earnings dis quarter because although the interest rate environment has improved for them a little bit, uh you know, let's be honest, if we're getting excited about

eight basis points on the ten year rate, you know, you certainly hope that's not the long term view. So uh much of it. I think also, as you know, covering this uh so many times, is going to go to with the statements that they make going forward. Uh you know, what is Mr Diamond gonna come out and say tomorrow about the rest of the world and his last couple of quarters. He has moved the market a little bit with some of the things he's had to say, So I think them setting the table for the earning

scene is also important. I think this will be the last quarter where companies can get away with just showing some improvement even if they don't necessarily meet the numbers that are expected. And I think those companies that missed on this round of earnings are death real. You're going

to be punished timely. Hey j J. As I look at this market, it seems a little bit like a head's eye win tails, you lose for equities and other risk assets in the sense that, Okay, if I see some data out there like we did over the weekend, the pandemic numbers are getting worse, that suggest that, you know, the economic recovery may bee pushed down the road. Then if in that scenario, I buy the big growth things

like we're seeing trading today, the amazons of the world. Conversely, you know, if I see, oh boy, we're gonna get a fat vaccine data and we're gonna get a vaccine quickly by the end of the year, then people will be back to work next year, then I want to rotate into cyclical names. It's it's kind of an odd the way the market is kind of viewing this. Is

that kind of how you view it as well. Yeah, it's really been amazing, and I think a lot of people are scratching their heads saying, uh, you know, how do I play this incasive will pull back and not that I want to throw water on the parade, so to speak. But it's something you should be considering, and I think we may get if the rest of the week goes pretty well. But one thing that I think you may start to see next week. To be honest, I don't think you've seen a huge attention of the

market on the election so far. I think next week we begin to pay a little bit more attention because you know, four years ago, I think the one thing people learned was don't get caught up sort of too

early in polls, etcetera. And it'll be interesting to see for me to see next week if we start to see, particularly in UH sectors like healthcare a little bit and financials actually a little bit more jockeying there as people consider, you know, will the Democrats take the House and senate, the presidency, etcetera, and what the expected policies will be coming forward for that. I think this is one last

week of hoping out, holding out hope for stimulus. If stimulus doesn't come out by the rest of the week, I think you may see the market's focus change a little bit too. Okay, now we have either way. I think we're gonna change to Okay, now we have to concentrate on the election and what that means a little bit longer count. So listen, I gotta take a step back here, because you know, none of none of this really matters until we get this virus under control. And

I do wonder and obviously stimulus does matter. But you know, I'm looking at virus cases in Illinois seven day average of new COVID nineteen cases at a new high, topping numbers from early May. Thirty more deaths reported on Monday. You gotta be watching this, j j um. What did

you seeing what's going on around you? Guys? Well, I think that that's a great point, Carroll, because uh, no matter what else happens, that's sort of the overhanging uh piece of news that can change the market at any moment. And so you have all these other sub stories that

are all one. A COVID is definitely number one. But until we get some real progress on COVID or I think a major change in the cases, I think it's gonna take a little bit of oh wow, we have to keep our eye there, but nothing is significantly changing and I think you and see that a little bit today on just what you see a in the market overall. But you're making a great point for those who watch

the volatility. You see the VIX up a little bit today, and so you're saying that it's no big deal, But that's not how it should react on a day like today. It should actually be lower. It's still holding on at twenty five level, and it's been between twenty five and thirty, and I think many traders are looking at it that if we're below twenty five, that's a little bit more of an all clear, and if we're above thirty, that's time to say, hey, you know something to consider here.

And one of the interesting things to me is is I look out at the election. We see the futures putting in an expecting expectation for higher, higher volatility, which of course made sense, but then that volatility staying elevated for the few weeks after the election because now you have the mail in ballots which may take longer to actually decide who the winners are. Yeah, that BIGS trade

is an important point. We talked about that a little bit last week because we saw that, you know, we've seen that where stocks are up and you're seeing the vix still move up, and that doesn't quite make complete sense. So um, good thing to point out. J. J. Kinahan, thank you so much, as I always Chief Market Strategy, a T D marriage trade on the front from Chicago and yeah, you know, you know, apology, you look around these cities and just seeing the numbers go up. Um,

you know, until we get it under control. It's kind of the same old story, you know that we're going to be talking about. It really is, and uh, it's just it's kind of it's gotten regional. Um. Fortunately the New York metro area is doing a good job. But I saw El Paso, Texas is a new hotspot in the continent of U S. So it kind of moves around based upon I think behavior. Yeah, exactly. Thanks so

much for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or at Bloomberg dot com, and be sure to check out our daily radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, and be sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News