The People Who Defined Global Business in 2022

You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube and now also on Bloomberg Quick Take. Yes, alright, so I've got to say it's the most wonderful time of the year for many many many reasons, including it's when Bloomberg Business Week comes out with the Bloomberg fifty, a list of those who define business in too. It's a list we're both the real and the reality world can co exist, so that puts both the President of

Ukraine and Kim Kardashian on the list. It's one. We're a Bad Bunny and the James Webb Space Telescope make the cut, as do Tom Cruise and John Ray the third both in storing roles this year. So let's get into it. It is really a list I love to go over. We got with us Bloomberg business Week Senior editor Brett Vegan and Bloomberg Business Week Editor Joel Webber,

both joining us this afternoon from Brooklyn. Joel, I want to start with you and give us the overarching theme for for for the year that was two if we can say this, two weeks before the end of the year, when you look back on the year and put in together this list, what was top of mind for you? Oh geez, that's a big question. Um hard hard not to talk about Crypto right now, I think you know.

And and uh, we have a certain someone on the list who, um has really emerged as the dominant figure in sort of the f X, and that's the new CEO of the X. But of course, like the beauty of this list is that you have to kind of like rewind the clock and start from the beginning of the year. And I don't think that there's any more dominant theme across this list than Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And again and again and again people emerged from that situation.

One Dames the Lynskey and how could you not talk about when you talk about two? But there are many, many more, And Brett Vegan is pass lift on the Business Week team is canvassing the newsroom to help put spotlights on important people, some of which you probably know. And then a lot of people the special part of this list, like Carol said, it's like this little cross section that happens when you bring together a lot of various people in themes, and there's just there's these gyms

that sort of emerge that are not household names. And that's what I love is like you take a Lynskey and you put them next to bread. Take your pick. Who's who's an unheralded name that people will surprise people. Let's see, someone like Pinky Cole is probably someone that a lot of listeners haven't heard of. So Pinky Um is the founder of a vegan fast food restaurant chain called I think I'm allowed to say this on the air,

Slutty Vegan. She started the year with four restaurants and by the end the next year, we'll have more than twenty. These are vegan fast food burger chains. Um and she's just a great story. Basically raised million dollars this year with the help of Danny Meyer. UM, famous of course for many reasons, including shake shack and valuing the company now at about a hundred million dollars. She's undergoing a massive expansion. I don't know. And then another name is

someone like Tom Oxley, who founded synchron Uh. Tom is both an entrepreneur but also someone with a deep medical background, and they did something kind of crazy this year where they were able to implant something in someone's brain that allowed them essentially to communicate via bluetooth and share their thoughts. This is a patient who was suffering from Luke Garrig's disease. Hey, Brett, UH, you know, I want to know about how you put the list together. And I know a lot goes into this,

and I know you reach across the newsroom. My experience with sending you names over the last few months is like, thanks, but no thanks because and there's always a great reason why. You know, somebody I spent hours thinking about and I write you up this little bio and you know, and I get this email back that's, you know, a gentle sort of let down. UM. It's pretty incredible though, to see this list and how it comes together. Um, how many people do you think you consider before you're coming

up with getting it down to fifty? Well, I just want to say thank you, of course for your country. I'll try again next year. Okay. We are always always looking for uh people next year. So, um, I don't know. I would say that probably we wind up giving about a hundred and fifty or so people will look. And the thing it really separates those who wind up on the list from those who don't is data. We look for a hard data point, We look for a metric.

We look for something that underpins the nomination, something that we can point to and say in this is a fact that really deserves recognition. And um merritt. There are a lot of people that we consider who had good years maybe last year, or expected to have good years next year. But we don't have that sort of hard metric, and without that it is really hard to sort of get on the list. But now you know, right, so

we know for for next year. Thank you. Well, you know, and sometimes it's Popeye's chicken sandwich or something that makes the list. You always have something that's not quite human and thank you, Joel Weber, I kind of always loved Joel that you can include these kind of things on the list. I think it makes it charming. But Brett, how did how did we approached the inanimate object in

the wake of Meme Stock last year? You know, you would think that this would be the hardest one to find every year, and for some reason, it's always one of the first things that I think of every year and get very excited once I figured it out. So, as Joel said, we did the Meme Stock last year, we did SPACs H two years ago, we did the Popeye's Chicken Sandwich year before that. Um, this year, it was kind of a no brainer to put the James

Webb Telescope on the list in July. I think we can all think back and remember just how loud we were by some of these, uh, some of the first pictures that we saw, which were some of the deepest and sharpest ever taken of the universe, and um, we are I actually was when I was in the office the other day. I'm noticing now that and some of the TVs and computers were using some of these photos as screensavers. So if you can imagine, that's the impact that this has had so that to me was kind

of kind of our no brainer inanimate object. Although I guess technically it is moving right because it's in space. Yeah, but it's not alive. It is not a line that's correct. Correct. Okay, So I think we can't really talk about two without a certain blockbuster that it was actually kind of decades in the making. Uh, you want to bring us up to speed on why a certain Maverick filmmaker ended up on the list. Yeah, I mean this is a great example of I think someone who everybody knows. Everybody knows

Tom Cruise, and everybody knows the movie Top Gun. What you may not know is that Top Gun Maverick is actually the biggest movie of his career. And if you think back to all of the huge movies he's been in, the Mission Impossible, Risky Business, the original Top Gun, this is actually number one and it's the biggest movie all year.

And the thing that I think is kind of cool about including someone like Tom Cruise for this is that you know, this is actually a story about COVID in many ways a story about the pandemic, because many streaming services attempted to buy this movie during the early days

of the pandemic. When there wasn't. Uh, we're a ton of blockbusters coming out, obviously, people weren't going to theaters, and Tom Cruise, because of his power in Hollywood, basically said no, I make movies for the big screen and this is gonna be in movie theaters when the time is right. And he got his wish. And that's kind of a story that I like, where you have a celebrity, but it actually touches on a much sort of larger story. Well, and we just got about thirty seconds left, just quickly.

We know you guys are down in the last second when you put this list together, because on it is John Red the Third. Yeah, I don't I know, Joel and I did not expect that John Read the Third would wind up on this list about a little more than a month ago. Um, somebody. We might have been considering somebody else for the list at that point. Um, but yeah, you know, we have to be reactive to the news. And he deserved the spot and wound up being just about the last one on. It is such

a fun list and always fun to go through. Okay, one more Brett, who who's one to watch? In ten seconds? Who's one to watch? Keep an eye on these people because they could be on next year's Bloomberg fifty. Oh you know, I love Jimmy O'Brien from John Boy Media. I don't know if you guys ever follow them, but they do these meticulous reconstructions of sports plays that are so fun to watch on one. Alright, great stuff as always, guys, Thank you so much. Brett Began, Senior Editor Bloomberg Business

Week via zoom in New York City, Joe Weber. He's the editor of Bloomberg Business Week on the Access Line in Brooklyn. The Bloomberg Fifty is featured on The Big Take podcast at Bloomberg dot com or wherever you get your podcasts, and do not miss The Big Take on Bloomberg Radio weeknights at eleven pm Wall Street Time. This is Bloomberg Business Week, Carol Master, Jimsdanovich. This is Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg

Quick Takes Tim Stenovic on Bloomberg Radio. Earlier this year, as the world began to reopen, Bloomberg Live hosted its first in person event in New York City. Since that was back in March, we're kind of reminded that at a media town hall today. Uh, the event was called work Shifting two point a Redefining Normal. And at that event, Tim, you talked with our next guest, Rob Thousand, vice chair Prudential Financial. We talked about the state of the American workforce.

And I remember that one, Carol, because back in March of one, when was it, I think it was probably March of I did I did an event with Rob that was virtual, so this was actually the first time I got to meet him in person, and to us, it really represented, you know, a reopening and look how far we've come since then. This discussion though, about reopening, it's ongoing, it's debated, it's in terms of how we

work post pandemic. Rob Thousand is Prudential as a vice chairman, and he joins us once again with an update on the latest Prudential Pulse survey. He joins us via zoom from New Jersey. Rob, How are you, um well, Tim, how are you doing that? We're doing really pol Thanks some for joining us. It's good to talk with you again as well. So take us into the high level stuff when it comes to the new poll survey here, because you guys get a great view on the American

workforce and the American worker. What did you find this year? Well, you know, we've been doing it for a long time, as you know, it goes back to two thousand seven team when we started doing this, and we've been trying to get insights around you know, two themes around how people are thinking about career and career development and trajectory,

and then around financial security. And so in this particular survey, what we did is we actually doubled the population size that we were you know, sample population size that we're looking at, and wanted to get better insights on what was happening from a demographic slicing standpoint, and particularly focused on sort of the younger generations millennials UH and Gen gen zers UM there the you know, they're the largest cohort in our workforce today, UH, and so understanding what's

going through their minds and UH and how they're faring and sort of we thought was an important set of observations to be able to get UH And and what we found, uh sort of interestingly is um they are their their experiencing some pretty notable shifts in their attitudes towards work UM less loyal, more mobile um than prior generations. Uh and uh, and they're also quite financially insecure, and it's it's leading to sort of behavior um that Uh.

You know that that is also challenging from from a risk standpoint as well, and trying to make up some of the ground that they that they've lost by virtue of sort of when they came into the workforce and the experience that they've had since they've been in the workforce. So, you know, one of the things we love, Rob, Rob is that you have kind of been a gut check for us in terms of how we think about work

and what it means post pandemic. What are the trends that you think are going to stay with us based on some of the survey results. Well, it's it's really clear, Carol, as I've talked about before, We've talked about before that the most must a trend going forward is going to be this hybrid work environment. As I've lost and reflected

on before. In two thousand and nineteen, we all knew how to work in the office and that worked okay, Uh, and then in two thousand and twenties through through you know earlier this year, Um, we learned how to work remotely. It started pretty rough, but but by the end of that period of time, not only learn to do it,

people learn to enjoy doing it that way. And so the challenge we have going forward is how do we create an environment, a work environment going forward where we get the best of what we did have in two thousand nineteen combined with the best of what we've learned during the pandemic and people have have developed remote skills and have enjoyed the flexibility that's associated with being able to work remotely, in order to come up with a new model going forward so that we get the best

of all that. I believe that we believe that that is h an absolute critical component to sort of the future of the workplace going forward and success at doing that. It's going to help you to attract talent and retain it. And if you're not successful in doing it, you're gonna lose talent. Well, and when you say best, is it best from the employee's perspective or from the employer's perspective, or a little bit about I don't, I don't, Yeah, I don't. I don't think it's a it's an either

or I think it can be both. Um. You know, it's interesting. I was just having a talk with a number of our employees in the town hall earlier this week. Uh, and I was I was calling. I was saying, you know, listen, what we learned is that the remote does work. You guys were very productive remotely productive. Productivity went up. Productivity went up across the country, but productivity and our company

went up. We saw it. I mean, is that because people are commuting and they're spending that extra time working what is absolutely Jim absolutely, and and they're more focused when they're home once they got through that initial period of the distraction to the kids and all that kind of stuff. When instructions, I don't know who these people are, these once who are more focused when they're at home. I'm like, oh, I guess I gotta put the laundry in the dryer. I guess I gotta make myself some lunch.

I'm sure there are actually they're absolutely aspects of that. But the reality is there are a lot of distractions during their workplace if you're trying to be at the computer getting things done. And what we saw is productivity held up despite concerns that we would dramatically lose productivity. Some of its sustainable because it came about tim because we enhanced technology to enable people to work remotely. That's sustainable. Some of it's by the longer work day they reinvested

their commute, plus some in many instances not all that sustainable. Right, people need to realty regain balance. But but the point being at the end of day they were increase their productivity. The challenges that short term productivity. Um, what we're concerned about is not only productivity in the short term, but

productivity in the long term. We need to ensure that we're having the sort of creativity, ideation, strategic planning that that that was going to make us competitive and successful in the future. That doesn't happen as well remotely. Learning for junior employees is stifled on a fully remote basis. They learned better in person when they get the benefit of apprenticeships and mentorships and can see and talk to people. And so we've got to find the right balance between

the two. They're not mutually exclusive. We can get great enhancements and productivity by giving people flexibility. We can develop loyalty and one of the statistics that came through which I found really quite interesting. Loyalty scoring UM hybrid workers have the highest loyalty to their employers. It was like UM the fully remote workers UM so at ten point differential between the two, and full time workers were in

between the two. So you can create loyalty by adopting that hybrid model that will be to the benefit of the company in terms of retaining your talent. You're gonna get They're gonna they're gonna enjoy that flexibility, they'll have loyalty,

they'll stay with you. They have high productivity when they're remote, but bringing them in can also be a win for the company and a win for them because it gives them that socialization, that culture that they need, helps with retention and that will help with the long term productivity

of the company. Hey, I want to go back to something that you said Rob at the beginning of our conversation, and it's about the decisions that the youngest people you survey, the gen z and millennials, are making when it comes to UH their finances. It got me a little concerned about the way that that gen zers are thinking about their finances and where they are in terms of how stable they are, what are they doing so. UM, so they're not very stable. Um. Less than half have any

sort of emergency savings. Um, you don't listen. We have a lack of emergency saving savings across the entire population. But it's it's it's more acute in the younger generations. Uh, it's the bank of mom and dad when it comes to those emergency savings. Is what the surveys? Could you have said the same thing though about millennials, you know, fifteen years ago and then you know, jen X twenty five years ago. I didn't do the survey then, but could you have said the same We didn't know those

service you don't know. I'm sure there was some aspect of that. It seems to be more acute now and that uh that you know, there's a because that's kind of more horrible. They're more vulnerable. It's a little scary. We think it is scary. And what's more scary is that there's this risky behavior that's occurring. That the only way I'm able to rationalize it is it's sort of

like it's a gambling phenomena. When you've got nothing to lose, there's not really risk associated with gambling, you know, they're in such a state of being behind on their own career development because you know, they came out of school either right at or right after the the the the the the Great Financial crisis. UM. So they were dislocated in the starts of their careers just as they're getting to what you're supposed to be their highest earning years.

You know, we hit a recession, we hit a pandemic where we could be hitting another recession, and so they've been they've been disenfranchised from what has otherwise been a social contract of you know, work hard, go to a good school, get good grades, you'll get a good job, and you'll get financial security or like, you know, none of that's happening for us. Uh. And so what you know, we're gonna try something different. Uh. And something different is

they're not using traditional financial advice um. Uh. Prior to what we've seen in the last several weeks, UM, they owned more bitcoin than they did make neutral funds. UM. That's probably been um, you know, rebalanced quite materially from markets. UM. So it's it's it's a little bit of kind of risky behavior and how they're managing their finances because they're so far behind Hey, Rob, just thirty seconds left here. Um.

Tim and I are like, wow, this is really rough. Um. If we get we just came off the FED meeting J Powell. You know, possibility of a recession couldn't get worse next year? And just again really quickly if you could. Yeah, I think there's a there's a risk of recession is going to take that financial security that's already on the

edge and push it over the edge for many. Uh. And the combination of recession with ongoing high inflation would be particularly disastrous because you know, to date, well wages have been increasing, they've not kept up with inflation. So I think that's a really bad outcome for you know, for for workers across the country. Fifteen seconds you guys, do you guys are you expecting a recession next year? Uh. We have a variety of views on that. It's gonna be.

It's a high wire act for the Fed to avoid one. I'll say that all right, Rob. Always good to get some time with you. Tim and I both appreciate it. Happy holidays, be well, Happy New Year. Rob thousand. He's vice here at Prudential Financial, joining s v A Zoom from New Jersey. Some sobering comments though right, yeah, I really are. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Earlier.

You know, we talked with Brett Began and Jill Weber Bloomberg Business Week about the Bloomberg Fifty, the sixth annual look at those in business, politics, science and technology, finance, and entertainment whose accomplishments deserve recognition. Our next guest is on that list. We're talking about Michelle Eisen, a lead organizer of Starbucks Workers United. She joins us this afternoon via zoom from Buffalo. Michelle, it's good to have you on the program. How are you. I'm great, It's great

to be here. Thank you so much. Welcome. Well, let's talk about what the past year has has been like for you, uh, and and and your efforts and in the union's efforts Starbucks Workers United to to get workers at Starbucks across the country unionized. How's it been. Well, it's been a crazy here, certainly. Uh, not every year I anticipated. Um. A little over a year ago, there were zero unionited Starbucks locations in the United States, and

as of today we're over two seventy UM. So it's just been fast and furious and and hard, probably the hardest here of my life so far. So when we talk about two undred and seventy locations, first of all, do you expect it to continue? And then how many workers are we talking about? Michelle, So we're up over seven thousand. That encompasses seven thousand new unionized Starbucks workers in just over a year, which is a big number.

I mean when you look at it in terms of the overall scope, that's that's massive, um And I do expect it to continue because the momentum really hasn't slowed what we've seen as increased interests from Starbucks workers to unionize their stores, because you know, things are hard, things are even harder now than they were, you know, a few years ago, to be a service worker, to be anyone of the working class, And the reality of the situation is that you know, the billionaires are not looking

out for the for the working man, and so we need to join together and um raise our voices and and fight for what we believe is fair in our workplaces. Starbucks, i think, to a certain extent, has always predate itself on providing a at least publicly a good a good place for people to work. So I'm curious, you know what your experience has been and and also what specifically you and other union organizers and people who join the

union are looking for from the company right now. I think that you're correct, I think, and that's what has become so apparently disappointing to me in the last year is that I came to this company back in two thousand and ten because of who they prided themselves to be, because they were this progressive company that you know, claimed to care about the environment and the community and most of all their workers. And I think that that was

true when I started. But we've seen a very clear decline in how workers are treated within the company in the last few years, and the pandemic really shined a spotlight on just how how they actually feel about us. You know, we were we were called essential. Starbucks stayed open through the entirety of the pandemic. Um these are not remote jobs. We have to go in in person

and customer phasing positions to perform these job duties. And they kept saying, you know, you're essential, You're essential to keep the world running. But we were continually treated like we were disposable, and we'd had enough. It was time to, you know, hold the company accountable. These are billion dollar corporations. Billions of dollars are made off of the backs of the labor that is in the floor of these cafes every single day, and yet you've got workers who can't

pay their rent and put groceries in their fridge. There's just there's an imbalance there and something needs to be done about it. And Michelle, I'm gonna play devil's advocate a little bit here, but I do wonder publicly held companies right there held to these standards that if they don't meet their numbers, they're going to get beaten down by Wall Street and investors, and potentially that could lead

to more job cuts. It's a fair argument. I see it happen, you know, over and over and over again. So is it always going to be problematic that you will have these wide gaps in terms of what workers are paid if it's a publicly held company. Is that part of the problem in your view? You know, I don't, I personally don't believe that it should be part of

the problem. Because we're talking about billions upon billions of dollars um, the company could afford to pay the entirety of the health care for all of their employees and still be far from in the red. So I think it's just more of looking at, you know, what is a fair discrepancy between what the workers who bring in these billions of dollars are making and what the people at the absolute top are making. There's got to be some sort of middle ground we can reach where everybody

feels like they're being taken care of. What do you make of the wider unionization drive that's taking place across the United States right now? And I should note it is a far cry from what we saw, you know, at the peak of labor using unions decades ago, but today we are seeing drives at places like Apple ri E I and more. What do you make of that? Well, I think you're seeing I mean, the the wealth gap is significantly higher than it was even at the peak

of the labor movement decades ago. So I think that's part of the catalyst. Certainly, the pandemic and the fact that the working class was put in a position where their health and their family's health was at risk daily.

If you were a service worker, if you were a worker and you know one of these shops that continue to stay open and provide what they were calling these essential services, and you had, you know, CEOs on these financial shows boasting not only about profits but record breaking profits in the middle of this pandemic, and workers are starting to question what they're worth actually is. And there's a realization that you know, we are We are the

people who bring in these billions of dollars. If the working class just walked out of all of these businesses right now, these businesses would essentially cease to exist. And so I think you're starting to see people stand up and demand you know, fair wages and at the very least safe working conditions, because these companies don't exist without us. Michelle, in terms of in general, this is the momentum to unionize,

above and beyond Starbucks. I'm curious if other companies or people at other companies have been reaching out to you more and more about how to kind of unionize at their own places. They are I mean, certainly the first to reach out to us after we won last December were other Starbucks workers at other stores across the country. And then you sat workers at a similar service industry jobs,

different restaurants and different coffee chains. But you're also seeing people, you know, Chris is doing some amazing work with with Amazon and the workers and factories, and people are just wanting to know. I guess kind of the same questions that you're asking, why now and what's different? And I think what's different is that we were your world was just put through the ringer, and we're all trying to recover, and while we're doing that, we're questioning a lot about

how we devote and spend most of our time. Now. It's a really good point. It's certainly conversation we've had many many times here at Bloomberg throughout the pandemic, but continue in this post pandemic world, not post pandemic, because it's still out there on pandemic world. Michelle Eisen, thank you so much. Congratulations, I mean part of the Bloomberg fifty. She mentioned Chris Chris Smalls, who has also been very active in labor unionization efforts. Check out the Bloomberg fifty.

This is Bloomberg. I'm roam a journal now, but you let me drive no no, no home all night. Please. I'll do the Ridings. I want to drive. It's a good question. This is the Drive to the Clothes on Bloomberg Radio. All right, everybody, just about eleven minutes left in today's trading session, wrapping up our simulcast coverage of the fed's latest decision, the last FED decision of two as expected fifty basis points after four consecutive hikes of

seventy five bases points. Markets gyrating moving a bit around today, Tim, Yeah, let's get into it with Alan. Alan Lands. It's time for our Drive to the close. He's research director at Lands Global dot com, president of Allan B. Lanson Associates. He joins us this afternoon from Toledo, Ohio. Alan, Good to have you back with us. How are you doing well?

Thanks Jim, Well, thanks for joining us. I was just talking to Carol a little earlier and I said to her, I don't quite get this market gyration that we're seeing as a result of what we've heard from FED chair j Powell. Today we are seeing the S and P five hundred down about six tents of one percent right now. But it did move into the green a little earlier in the day after during the press conference, and then moved into the red just in the last half hour.

What do you make of it. I think there's a little bit of information for everybody, and a very similar to yesterday's you know, as as far as report, we're you know, initially the headlines look like, oh, inflation is is you know peaked, and and and and we don't you know, it's much less of a concern. And when you started looking at the numbers and he saw the consumer inflation rate actually was you know, uh flat, and if you take out uh certain items, it was even up.

And and this is the same way I mean Fitcher Paul was talking about, you know, being more in restrictive territory, and you even mentioned a twenty five basis points on the table for for you know, February, so that was you know, positive, you know, for for stocks. Yet you know, uh, there are also comments on you know that the inflation is going to be sticky and and uh you know, especially on the wage front and like on on the consumer inflation side that you know that if they're gonna air,

they're gonna air on the side of caution. So so I think you had a little parts for both, uh, you know, the the bulls and the bears. That's why you have that that kind of volatility. I know, I feel like nitnet. You know. It's interesting. He said, we're getting close to that level we think of sufficiently restrictive, which kind of says to me, Alan, all right, maybe we're getting there to at least the FED stopping in

terms of raising rates. But he also said the FED still has quote ways to go, which what does that mean? Higher for longer? Like how do we read between the lines when I feel like you, like you said, you've got a little bit of it's a little bit of a Fed J. Powell buffet. Yeah, it is definitely a carol. You know, I think the best thing is is just

to um. You know, you know you're getting closer to the end, but you still have that um idea that you know they're gonna err on the side of caution and and you know inflation and higher rates are gonna

be with us a little bit longer than um. You know, people expect or or you know, when you have the nine point preopening, you know yesterday you know it's just out or if those are the times you want to take some profits or light and exposure or risk uh, and then you know if you get the market slammed, um,

you know, take a take advantage of the opportunity. It really hasn't been as bad of a year if if you've been really selective, you know, if you look at the what we've talked about buying murk, you know this summer and deer when when they were low in Goldman sacks under three hundred and and um necessarily right, yeah, yeah, I think anything sixty fort allocation or owning, you know, and I still think it is going to be difficult

as far as for passive investing. But if if you're selective and disciplined, it really hasn't been you know, that that bad a year. You've had some income opportunities with energy and and now I think, you know, the interesting thing we've always talked interest in dividends and and you know,

high quality. I think with some of these good quality companies that don't pay dividends that have just been totally slam se, I think there's some good opportunities there that investors, if there's tax less selling or or further pressure, uh you know, pressure can if they have a two three year time frame, can can really make a lot of money. So so it's contrary to what most people are saying.

But again, I think that's where investors will make more the most money in three and the risk reward isn't that bad because these some of those companies have been slammed so much and and have opportunity, not all of them just by across the board because they're down. So what did you make make of the update of the Summary of Economic Projections that showed a revision of the terminal rate to five point one percent reached last year. Is that still optimistic in your in your head given

that we're still seeing inflation and generational highs right now. Yeah, you know, but it's it's it's reachable. I mean, if you if you looked him at a quarter point in February,

then then we're very you know, very close. So I think it's a situation where you know that that is one of the areas where investors can take a little for um and um, you know, might be feeling that we're close to the end, but but I really think you know, as we get into three that um, you know that that this euphoria that you know it's behind and you've got peak inflation, you know, behind us et cetera.

There's gonna be pockets of of inflation and the you look at the weight in the consumer areas, Um, you know they're gonna uh as far as you know, and even today he mentioned that, you know, we're you know, it's very difficult, you know, if we loosen too soon. Um. So to the to me, that just tells you that, you know, even if if we're where we're supposed to be, uh, you know, there might be a pause and we'll keep it higher for longer. And you know from the talk,

was that going to lower it? And I really don't see that, you know, as as far as the foreseeable future. Do you think um J. Powell and the f O m C are wrong to continue on their path for that two percent inflation target? Is that not real considering

maybe that the global macroeconomic environment has changed. Yeah, I think if he's stubborn on on that, Um, that's where you get that, you know, higher for longer, and and and and a real difficult environment where you could even you know, not be talking you know, a slight recession, but something worse. And I think that's in the back

of the mind minds of investors. So so so that you know, I think we'll always you know, and we started the year saying there's a ceiling and on valuations and and and to be cautious and and that's why, even with the market down so much, I still think there's a ceiling on valuations because of that, Carol, what's

that ceiling? You know, the trading range that you've seen, um, you know of late you know, like we're testing and it looked like if if the market you know, held their free market games yesterday, uh, you know, we could could finally be breaking through you know, some some twouter day moving averages and and and and look, you know,

more positive on the longer term front. And every time we get close to those type of areas the market, you know, faith's back, and and you know it's one reason or another, whether it's such your fall or or as far as something going on geo politically. But I think, uh, you know that that says a lot, you know, just even from a technical standpoint. All right, So well, you know, we're halfway through December, we're getting ready to wrap up

the new year. It's funny we've been talking with our Bloomberg Business Week team for some of our year end wrap up shows and how many of the stories that are going to stay with us, whether it's business stories, individuals and Elon Musk, a Twitter crypto, or global inflation that just stays with us into does the conversation around

global monetary policy change significantly? Do you think ultimately in which would then mean something different for valuations and just kind about a minute left here, Yeah, I think you know, it definitely could. And that's why you want to be selective and you want to be a passive investor, you know. So so I think you know, take advantage of it. You know, you're buying a couple of like you know, genera at that you know down you know last week traded in the high eighties and you know you still

got a fifteen multiple. It's growing and and uh again very unusual for us. It doesn't have a dividend. But I think you know, those are are the opportunities, just like you know deer in Golden Sax and and uh you know Mark were the good opportunities you know, four or five months ago. So so I think that's gonna be the most important thing for for your listeners, um, rather than the mackerel. Well, Allen have a good New Year and happy holidays. Allen Lancer at lants Global dot

com joining us on the phone from Toledo, Ohio. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week down the the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us live on YouTube and now also on Bloomberg quick Take