The Impact of DC Protests on Biden’s Transition

dot com. If you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, and be sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. Let's talk a bit about COVID nineteen. New York City's COVID nineteen hospitalizations tim rising to their highest rates since May, US reporting a record three thousand, eight hundred forty four deaths from COVID confirmed cases globally, climbing by an all time high more than seven seventy six

to more than uh you know this, COVID. The record number of deaths yesterday was absolutely overshadowed by what happened in the nation's capital. But we can't forget. We're in the middle of a pandemic right now, and it's changed the way that we work and live right I mean politics obviously front and center, but absolutely like none of the none of this gets back to normal until we get the health pandemic under control. Let's see what our

next guest has to say about all of this. Dr Chris Bier is Professor of Public Health and Human Rights the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Senior scientifically aison at the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network and the Bloomberg School of Public Health. Of course supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Bira on the phone from Baltimore. Dr Bira, nice to have you

here with us. Uh. Yeah, it was easy for the virus to get overshadowed yesterday because of all the political news. But this is not good. We are at another surge uh and it continues to be that way. Do you think we are getting near the worst or that's in the weeks to come. Well, Carl, I'm good to be with you again to say I think we're still seeing rising cases and of course, as you noted yesterday, tumultuous day for our country, but also a record for COVID

deaths in the country. UM and we are expecting still as as we have predicted, the post holiday season surge to continue. We're in this very, very challenging moment where we do have a way forward, and that of course is the COVID vaccines that have emergency use authorization now. But we're not going to be able to immunize enough people to start to really blunt this curve, and the next few weeks and probably well into February are going

to be enormously challenging. You say we're not going to be able to you say, your doctor, we're not gonna be able to immunize enough people. Do you mean in the next few weeks do you mean this year? I mean to blunt this current enormous way. So how will we see this wave go down? Well, first of all, I think we have to stick to the basics, right, Um, we have to really continue with mass wearing, with social distancing, with handwashing. As hard as it is to stay vigilant,

people are going to have to try and do that. Uh. We do need to ramp up both manufacture and distribution of the two approved vaccines we have, and of course we have more vaccines in the pipeline. But as I'm sure. You know, we we've really had a slow start to the immunization programs and a number of the states really faced challenges. Yeah, the bottleneck is not in the manufacturing of these right now. The bottleneck is in the distribution.

We have a Bloomberg vaccine tracker, and it shows that a very small portion, relatively number of vaccines that have been distributed have actually been shot into the arms of people. That's right too, That's absolutely right, and it's it's it's an enormous tragedy really, So Dr Byro. You know, this is interesting because we've talked about this a lot at home to about you know, we saw this with the

November election. We had sports teams, you know, step up and say, you know what, use our stadiums us so that we can bring people in, get the vote out. How you know, more polling places. I'm hearing conversations about that are already actions about that of taking some of these giant places and setting them up as vaccine sites. Is that what we need to kind of really get

it out into the system. And at the same time that makes me a little nervous about large groups of people that might have COVID going out there for the vaccine and just got about fifty seconds and then we'll come back and talk some more. Oh no, actually, I'm sorry, we can keep going my bat Okay, Well, we really need a coordinated effort UM. And of course, we we have an allocation strategy around healthcare workers around the elderly,

in in UH congregate housing facilities, the staff of those facilities. UM. But what we've seen, unfortunately, is that the vaccines are moving to the states and out to places where people can be immunized too slowly to unevenly. We've we've seen, unfortunately the potential for vaccines to expire without being used.

That's a great loss. UH. And of course we have to remember that with these two Messenger RNA vaccines MADERNA and five or uh fiser in particular, has very challenging distribution UH features because it has to be kept super cold. The low minus eight the MODERNA vaccine is a little easier to use, but they're both challenging to use and they really do require very careful management UM and UH.

And of course you know, what we have is not a national strategy, but fifty different states strategies, and many of the governors are going in their own way. You saw that Florida may have the decision not to prioritize healthcare workers and instead go with the elderly, but without preparing so long lines and people waiting overnight. That's not a national strategy. So my gut says, nothing's going to

change until we have a new administration. What are your hopes that from day one Joe Biden and team do in terms of getting this out to people. Well, the incoming administration, Biden Harris does have a national strategy on COVID. It's been up on their website. They have articulated that this is the principal priority. They're putting together a great team. Dr Faucci, of course, is going to stay on as a senior scientific advisor. The CDC director who's proposed for

Shell Wallinsky is an outstanding leader. Um So, I think we're we're very optimistic that this is an administration that's going to let the science lead and that is going to try and have a national strategy. But they're inheriting a rollout that's already underway and problematic, and I think it's gonna be really challenging to streamline this to make

it coherent. Uh, and and to get it working. The President elect has committed to a hundred million people being vaccinated in the first hundred days, So that's not a hundred millions, that's a hundred million immunizations, about fifty million people with these two dose vaccines. Well, it was looking realistic when he made a campaign promise. With the rollout right now, I think it's going to be enormously challenge.

When when do you feel like things start to get normal, When do we start to be able to kind of reopen life as we know it and love it. We will have about fifty million vaccines available, so enough for million people by the end of this month. February, March, and April are likely to still be periods where we have more people who want to be immunized than we have vaccines. What we're thinking is that by June or July one we will have enough vaccine for every American

who wants one. Uh, and that that is going to mean that really by the end of the second quarter of one we should really be seeing a change in life getting back to normal. We have trials planned for the pediatric vaccines. Right now, we only have one that's the the fisor vaccine that can go down to age sixteen. But we also really need to do that work and be sure that we have vaccines for children, an infants,

for pregnant women, the lactating women. So we still have some work to do, but but the fall of one should look a lot different than the spring dr buyer. One unfortunate element that we've seen with the vaccine rollout has been skepticism of the American population. Not everybody, but people who say, including healthcare workers, that they don't want this vaccine. Have you received a vaccine yet? I have not because I am a researcher and I don't do

direct patient care at Hopkins. We're we're not prioritized. Um, I'm I'm hopeful that that I'll be in one of the next groups. Uh, and I'm expecting to get get a vaccine probably in February. How do we fix the messaging here? I think one thing that's very encouraging. You may have seen there was a recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll that showed that vaccine acceptability, at least in that poll was up around that's better than it's been, so

we're going in the right direction. I think it's very important for healthcare workers or political leaders like Biden Harris, who both have been publicly immunized, to step up and model the behavior that we want to see. We also, I'm working in the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network. We've had a big faith based initiative to try and address these issues for African Americans in particular. That community unfortunately seems to have some of the highest rates of vaccine hesitancy

and skepticism. UH and UH. And we're working hard with, for example, African American physicians and networks to try and improve UH people's positive sense of the benefits of these vaccines. They have very high efficacy nine and UH, they're very safe as far as we can see so far. We're following everybody in the trials who's been in these vaccine trials for up to two years to look at longer

term safety. But I think you know what, what we're hopeful about is that as more and more people get immunized, the folks who are saying right now, I'm not ready will will move towards getting immunized. For most Americans, it's gonna be probably May or June before they really can just decide if they want a vaccine, So so the

folks who are hesitant should wait and look. But but yeah, as we're seeing you know, well, you know, it's interesting to say this, and I hate to do this in like our last couple of minutes, but there is a story on the Bloomberg. It's an opinion piece, but it asked the question who's on the hook of vaccines go wrong? And it's basically, you know, given the breakneck pace of production, there are very few answers about what manufacturers and governments

are ultimately responsible for. God forbid, something should go wrong. And forgive me because I'm an optimist and I believe in the science of this vaccine. But as you said, you guys the medical community, well, we're gonna be tracking people longer term to see if there is any longer term impact because we still, to be fair, to be honest, we still don't know. Well, that's right, and we need We are accumulating safety data from the people in the

trials and the people who've been immunized. Every day. We have a vaccine adverse events reporting system that the CDC is managing. Um certainly everybody in the healthcare systems who are getting immunized are being tracked through those health systems. UH, and we need to follow this very carefully. I think it's important to remember that there are always some risks associated with any medication, any vaccine, any biomedical intervention. We all know that writing is zero risk, but the flip

side of that is the risk of getting COVID. Learning more and more about this disease is that that you know this, this has the potential to really kill you are alter your life. I was having that conversation actually with someone this morning, and as Chris Rock told Gail King on CBS's I take thailett all every day. Do I know what thailet all is it? All I know is it fixes my headache. I'm okay with taking the vaccine. Is basically what he said. Um. Dr Buyra, thank you

so much, Stay safe, be well. Dr Chris Buyer, Professor of Epidemiology, Public Health, also and Human Rights at Johns Hopkins University, Bloomberg School of Public Health, of course, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder Bloomberg LP. He's also the senior scientifically as on at the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser from Bloomberg Radio. Well, this wasn't the game plan, but it really had to be.

I'm talking about this week's cover story by Bloomberg business Week, which, after yesterday's mob protest and storming of the US capital, the cover is about the trashing of American democracy and new low in American politics. Let's bring in more on the significance and impact of what should have been a normal, routine process of Congress signing off on a presidential election.

It was anything but. Here's Bloomberg Business Week National correspondent Josh Green on the phone in Washington, d see who we talked with a bunch yesterday through all the craziness. Josh is also author of The Devil's Bargain, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, and The Nationalist Uprising, also with US Bloomberg business Week editor Joe Webber on the remote access from Brooklyn, Joel, the cover. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I feel like the picture you guys have in the

cover is worth a lot more than that. Yeah. And and just to give you a sense of kind of what what what we go through a magazine and you know, Wednesday, we we tend to we shipp the covers shipped a lot of the magazine on Wednesday, we were ready to go with a completely different cover, and I actually released that file and then immediately caught it back when we witnessed what was happening in d C. Because it's like, how could you not talk about what was happening in

the nation's capital. And um, Josh actually had nothing to do with what we ended up doing in the issue because everything unfolded so quickly and we were on such a tight um timeline, and you know, the trashing of American democracy seemed exactly like the right line to use. Main cover line was was New Low and and it really felt that way and still feels that way way today. So I think we made the right call. And who knows that the world well see that other great idea.

Hopefully they will. But the reason I wanted to bring Josh on the program today is just because I think, you know, because of Devil's Bargain and he's sort of his knowledge of of Bannon gave us a really early sense of how how real the Trump effect was going to be, and so and did the cover story had a couple of months ago, on the coming out of the election of Trump is um is here to stay. So so Josh, like, help me understand. Do you think Trump is um is still here to stay? Yeah, I

certainly think it is. And I think yesterday was a kind of an ugly reminder of its enduring power with a not insubstantial group of hard right wing Republican voters. Um. You know, as as we see things here in Washington, you know, a lot of times elected officials, Republican centers and House members go along with this this sort of thing and and indulged Trump out of a sense of careerism and opportunity and uh, you know, a desire to advance within the party and a fear of their own

Republican voters. And I think yesterday illustrated the danger in indulging this sort of thing and indulging Trump. Um. But you know, to me, one of the most horrifying things we witnessed was that after this violence that left four people dead, that the capital overrun for the first time since eighteen twelve, was that a major went ahead anyway afterwards once Congress reconneaned in the middle of the night, uh,

and objected to Joe Biden's victories. So I think that that shows you that even after this kind of mayhem, violence, death, terrorism, UM, that Republicans are a certain segment of them are still going to march in line behind Donald Trump and whatever it is that he wants to do. And I think that's a good indication that there isn't going to be a clean break on January and that that the country isn't going to be able to move beyond Trump, certainly

not the Republican Party. Josh we We, how do you joining us yesterday live on the radio as this was taking place on the in the Capitol, UM, for your immediate reaction, for your immediate analysis. But I'm wondering with you know, almost twenty four hours at this point, to sort of think back on what happened yesterday. UM, what's the damage that's been done? No, I don't think we can begin to really know the answer to that question.

I mean, you know, part of the damage I think is is psychological and knowing that our country is susceptible of this sort of thing. I think part of the damage, um, comes to the reputation reputation of the United States in the world. I mean, it's certainly tarnished and diminished our standing even further. Uh, and the and the eyes of

allies and foreign countries. I mean, one of the one of the things you saw yesterday was the leaders of autocratic or dictorial countries essentially trolling the United States by releasing official statements, you know, expressing concern over the violence, death, and mayhem in the US capital. Uh. It's it's just remarkable and almost unthinkable that this could have happened here. And then we still have two weeks to go, and and you know who knows. I mean, every day things

seem to get worse in Washington. You don't think it can get worse, and then you turn on the news and see people overrunning the capitol, uh, fighting being killed. Um. So you know, until Trump is out of office on January twenty, which I do think will happen eventually. UM. You know, we really don't have the kind of distances perspective that we need you to answer that question. How significant is it that social media companies have intervened, at least some of them, you know, in all series. And

I think that is a really big deal. I mean, I think it's commendable what Twitter did freezing Donald Trump's account and Facebook essentially kicking him off the platform until he leaves office. Twitter has been Donald Trump's main channel of communication, not just with his own followers, but with the media, with the culture, with cable news. When he tweets, people react, reporters react, We have to react. He can

attack people, he can attack other Republicans. Uh, you know, a lot of official Washington was really kind of Marionette strings from Trump's Twitter account, from you know, the day he started running for office, certainly was throughout his presidency, and by taking away that platform from him, I mean, it really does feel like things have quieted down in the last twelve d eighteen hours. As Trump has been off Twitter, you can only imagine what he would be

tweeting and doing and commanding. As you know, Mike Pence turned his back on him as Congress made official Joe Biden's victory in the presidential race. In the fact that he wasn't able to kind of fulminate and encourage more of this violence, I think is a good thing, and I think Twitter ought to ought to kick him off for good. Yeah, it's interesting. We talked to um Josh that Twitch, which is a streaming service owned by Amazon.

They've suspended Trump's channel as well, And I guess they're going to do that until January and then reassess that's their word. Uh, the situation. Hey, Josh, just quickly, just got about thirty seconds. What do you think will ultimately maybe be the role of Donald Trump after he leaves the White House? Is he kingmaker? Is he media star? Does he go away to Florida and be quiet? Just quickly, Well, I'm sure he won't be quiet, but I have to say I do have some doubts about his ability to

be kingmaker after what we've seen. He will still be an important voice in the party. A lot of people like Senator Josh Holly will be trying very hard to win his approval and the approval of supporters. But I don't think we can answer that. Get to know how things shake out and how much works to get Oh, it's good to check in with you. Thank you so much, Josh Green, National correspondent, Bloomberg Business Week, Joe Weber, Editor

Bloomberg Business Week. Check out that cover story. It's pictures and it's a timeline about the story of really our history here and our questions of democracy. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. Yes, indeed, the Thursday edition of Bloomberg Business Week brought to you by se I imagine your asset managements firms operational infrastructure as a competitive advantage. Let see I show you how at se sc dot

com slash I m s. This is Bloomberg. Do those who rereaked havoc in our capital today? You did not win. This mob was in good part President Trump's doing, incited by his words, his lies. What happened here today was an insurrection incited by the President of the United States. Will be part of a history that chose the world what America is made off. We will not bell the lawlessness. Colleagues,

It's time to move on. Well, you're hearing there the voices of Vice President Mike Penn, Senator Chuck Schumer, Senator Mitt Romney, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, and how Speaker Nancy Pelosi, those lawmakers reacting last night to the chaos in Washington, d C. After Congress resumed deliberating the electoral College certifications on Wednesday evening. Right, it is done, but uh and this is ending two months of failed challenges by h

Joe Biden's predecessor. We're talking about Donald Trump, and then, of course we know ultimately exploded into violence at the U. S Capitol yesterday. So we watched it all unfold in real time, and I'm guessing so did our next guest, Chris Leu front of the show, back with us. His former Deputy Secretary of Labor under the Obama administration, worked up on Capitol Hill. He's someone who has worked in each of the branches of the US government. He's senior

fellow at the University of Virginia Miller Center. Was also on Barack Obama's transition team. He was the executive director. He's on the Biden transition team, and he joins us on the phone in Charlottesville, Virginia. You've got to stop with all your accomplishments, Chris, because sorry, um. First of all, nice to have you here. Happy new Year. What a rough start to the new year. Our democracy yesterday tested really big time this week. How did you see it?

You know, it's somebody who spent a dozen years on Capitol Hill, in both the Senate in the House. I mean, it was shocking, but that's even sort of an understatement. In the U. S. Capitol is one of the most secure facilities in the country. You know, it's it's protecting our highest selected leaders. It's worth deliberations happen in the House and Senate, I mean, and to see those people storming in as easily as they apparently did, causing the

kind of havoc disrupting the proceedings. Um, it's you know, we keep saying this is not who we are as Americans, but it clearly is. And I think it's going to require a lot of soul searching about how we got to this point, how does the country move on from this? Where do we go from here? You know, I think, Um, the President elect, Joe Biden sent sent the right message yesterday.

You know, he's continually talked about healing, you know, really going back to the beginning of his campaign, that this was a battle for the soul of our nation. I think he is going to try to obviously take the temperature down on the rhetoric. Uh, notwithstanding the fact that he's going to control both the House and Senate. He's gonna he has indicated he's going to continue to work

for bipartisan solutions. Um. But I think we need to recognize that there is a very strong anti government under It's not just anti government, anti all institutions undercurrent in our country right now, and that just continues to fester. And that's been a long term problem in this country.

You know, we just talked Chris about the or a Bloomberg Business Week magazine this week and this wasn't there a plan, But after yesterday they had to do a quick change because there was no doubt about it what the cover had to be. And in big letters, it says new Low and underneath it it says the trashing of American democracy and it shows the capital. Uh, and the protesters just climbing the walls and all the way up. You said something though that really resonated. You said, clearly,

this is who we are as Americans, these protesters. You know, it does feel like half the country is this way. You know a lot of people thought there was fraud in the election. Uh. There's division even within each of the parties in terms of some of the younger members, the older members, you know, the Republicans the same thing. And I do wonder how do we kind of bring

it all together. So we go back to a time where people did cross across the aisle or reach across the aisle and actually get things done that benefited more Americans, most Americans. You know. Look, I I watched the remarks yesterday, both before and after the violence. I was struck by Senator McConnell's comments, where I think he really appropriately talked about that there was no election fraud. This was not a particularly a close election. You know, it is now

the time to move on. And while I can applaud Senator McConnell and other Republicans who gave statements like that yesterday, one wonders why those statements were not made two months ago. We've known for two months who this election results are, and I think we do need to be careful. I mean, look, I'm not I'm not being partisan, but this is not

a both sides are wrong. I mean, we have a president, sitting president who even before election day, has said if he does not win, it will be because of fraud, and has continued to perpetuate this idea. And so it's not surprising that there is a significant percentage of people in this country that believe there's fraud. Notwithstanding the fact that the Department of Homeland security. UH. Mr Trump's own

former attorney general have all said there's no fraud. This has now been litigated in over sixty court cases around the country. So you know, look, I mean, it's it's it's it's there's an underlying distrust and government that is being um exploited by you know, elected officials. You've got a bifurcated not even bifurcated. You've got a diverse media atmosphere where people can watch whatever news they want. There's

there's a lot going on here. I think Joe Biden can be part of the solution, but he won't be the entire solution. Do you think part of the solution is invoking the twenty Amendment for the president's remaining days or impeaching the president, as lawmakers have suggested. I guess I'd say this. Uh. I do think there needs to be a strong message sent that this is not acceptable conduct. Um.

But we are only left with thirteen days left. That that being said, I mean, you know, we have seen just over the course of twenty four hours what one person's words can do. And I go back to you know what Joe Biden said yesterday in his remarks he said, you know, the president's words matter. At their best, they can inspire and at the worst they can then fight.

And that's what happened. And so I think we should all brace ourselves for the next thirteen days, um, because I don't you know, I think as fewer and fewer guard rails exist around this president, he remains a very unpredictable and potentially dangerous person right now. So, Chris, I do want to ask you about kind of the role of all of us in being responsible citizens, responsible members

of the media. I know we try to be very careful here, We are careful at Bloomberg, but I do wonder there was so much coverage of everything and anything that Donald Trump did and his team did, and I think we also kind of struggled with it sometimes whether it was really news, uh, and whether or not you know, who are responsibility and kind of fueling some of the fury. Yeah, you know, And I think this is a legitimate concern

that people really need to examine. And it goes back to the presidential campaign, when you had network that would ron Trump's rallies, you know, from start to finit giving him a disproportionate amount of airtime. But also at the same time airing a lot of you know, the falsehoods that we have all gotten used to now. And the theory is always, well, you know it's news. Well just because it's news or might be newsworthy, doesn't mean it needs to be put out there. And how do you

properly refute the false allegations? Um in that, and how do you do that in real time? And then it continues all the way to you know, whether it's you know, his press conferences he did early in his administration or the COVID daily briefings that he did through last spring and summer where he was just dispensing harmful misinformation and then obviously what we've seen just in the last twenty

four hours with you know, Facebook and Twitter both suspending him. Um, you know what what what is what is the role of social media as well? So, uh, you know, we've never had a president who has pushed the limits on disinformation as much. And you know, the theory had always been, you know, what the president says matters that needs to

be covered, maybe that shouldn't be the rule going forward. Chris, you're you're on the president lex transition team, and I'm wondering how you would characterize the transition thus far in the communication that the team has had with the Trump administration to ensure this this peaceful transfer of power that the President overnight committed to. You know, I would say throughout the transition, at least the parts that I have seen, UM, the cooperation has been good. I have been leading the

Department of Labor transition team. We've had great cooperation from our counterparts, UM, within the Trump administration at the Department of Labor. But I know that there has been problems in other departments, like the Department of Defense, uh, the Office of Management and Budget, you know, and we have today, um, this morning, the President putting out a statement committing to the orderly transition. Well he's doing that thirteen days before

inauguration day. It's about two months to And I think also there had been elements that weren't peaceful exactly, you know. And I think you know when you were talking about, UM, the handover the largest organization in the world, the settled government. You want absolute cooperation from day one, and that's exactly what we got in two thousand and eight from the

outgoing Bush administration. And that's not a political thing. It's just when you're talking about issues of national security and homeland security and now we've got a pandemic, you want to make sure that that that it's as seamless a transition as possible on January. One thing that does stand out for me, and having watched kind of into the

wee hours the process last night. Um, despite we know that the electoral college votes they were confirmed and President elect Joe Biden, yes, he and Kamala Harris they will be in the White House come January, there were still, um, the two sixty two Republicans in the House and Senate who were present, A hundred forty six hundred forty and what are both of the objections in terms of that

electoral college vote? That number, to me was staggering. Chris, and I do wonder for someone who has worked in the capital, you know, worked within the halls of Congress, you know that divide like where did we get where? How did we get there? And how do we kind of get back to a kinder, gentler way. Yeah, we probably don't have enough time in the segment to talk about how we got there, but I will say I

was disappointed by that as well. I mean I was watching the Senate proceedings, and I was heartened by the fact that, you know, most of the people who said they were going to object pulled down their objections. But boy, when you had that vote on the outside with like a hundred d and thirty, those people, they were as if nothing that had happened in terms of the afternoon,

the chaos of violence had happened at all. And I think simply with their votes, they continue to perpetuate this idea that the election was somehow stolen, and I think that is a problem. And the truth is, because of you know, jerrymandering in this country, because of the way that people process news, these people on the House Republican side will probably never suffer any political consequences for that vote. In fact, they might even be rewarded for that vote. Yeah,

it's pretty staggering. Hey, forty seconds left. Hears into working with the transition within the labor department from the get go, what do we need to do to help out the labor market going forward? Well, we need to get our arms around the pandemic, because unless we can get that under control, we're never going to have a steady economic recovery. And um, you know, and obviously we're gonna need more economic relief when this current round um expires in March.

All right, Chris, gonna leave it there. Thank you so much, Happy New Year again, and really appreciate you being in on so much for us. Chris lou Senior fellow at the University of Virginia Miller Center, former Deputy Secretary of Labor under President Obama. We mentioned e d of Barack Obama's transition team, and he is a member of the Biden transition team specifically in the Labor Department journal. Now, but you let me drive, no, no, no no, no home

an please, I'll do the riding drivel. I want to drive. Just drive by the questions, trying. This is the drive to the globe. Give me thanks. We'll drying us down on Bluebird Radio. All right, just about eleven minutes left in today's trading session, Carol Master along with Tim Stanovick, and if I look at the equity trade, we've got the SMP and the NAZAC pretty much at highs of

the day, we're up about one point six percent. Charlie mentioned that on the SMP two point seven percent higher on the Nasdack do up sixty one point, So quite a rally or decent rally considering kind of all the turmoil we've been dealing with. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a key theme here. We talked to us two Creedy Goopt and Sini Bassa Shas earlier in the day. Um, let's see what Walter Todd has to say about that time for the drive to the clothes. Let's bring him in.

He is chief investment officer at Greenwood Capital Associates. On the phone from Greenwood, South Carolina. Walter, Happy New year. Nice to have you here. And I was talking with Greg Valier yesterday after the closing bell at a d C. And despite even the you know, turmoil and the breaching of the capitol yesterday, you know, we saw stocks move higher even though they finished off their highs yesterday. Nonetheless

we had a rally. The markets didn't come undone. How do you make sense of kind of the disconnect of what we've been seeing in Washington versus what we continue to see in the financial markets. It's like one disconnect after another, to be quite honest. Yeah, Well, good afternoon, Caroline, Sam good to be here. Yeah, it was you have a TV outside my office, and so you're watching the Bloomberg and you know, seeing the markets move higher and

than watching the scenes from the Capitol was really surreal. Um. Yeah, well, I think, you know, it's kind of goes back to what you just mentioned in terms of that we've had a disconnect in the market, if you will, from I don't want to stay from reality, but certainly from the underlying economic fundamentals for really the duration of and that's really kind of one of the strange things about this market.

It's all it's been all about the anticipation of getting beyond this and the reopening, and then then we got the vaccine news in November and we really started to amp up after that. So it appears to me that the market is just kind of looking through everything, even a you know, attempted coup as someone said, um yesterday,

So it is, you know, quite incredible. But I think at the end of the day, it comes back to liquidity and the Fed kind of holds the keys of this market and as long as they are going to allow you know, the liquidity to continue, which it from all the comments we've gotten over the past several months, that appears to be the case. I mean that that's

what's going to continue to drive this market higher. What are what are investors signaling right now about a Congress Uh in a White House that's fully controlled by by Democrats. I'll be you know, in the Senate with a ever so slim majority, the slimmest of majorities. Yeah. Well, since the election, what you've seen is really a rotation into more kind of inflationary type sectors or cyclically oriented sectors.

And it's not that you've seen necessarily move out of tech, but this's been more subdued in some of the growth areas. And we see this back and forth. You know, yesterday was definitely very as cyclical rotation. Today is back to more the growth and tech and healthcare and so forth. So I think you can own both, but definitely the market kind of signal is you talked about rates in the last segment with Dave Wilson. The rates are moving higher.

That's going to favor you know, some of these areas like financials and industrials and materials, and that's what you're seeing U for the past several months. Well, okay, I have to go back from movement because we have had a lot of conversations I was just thinking about what you said, you know, how some people said it attempted coup yesterday. I mean, who would have thought like those kinds of words would be coming out of anybody's mouth. So, like, I mean, I this is one of my all time

favorite quotes. Uh. You know, there are decades when nothing happens, and then there are weeks where decades happen. And uh, you know I use that back in March. So I think it's appropriate for this week as well, because you know, a lot is going on right now. Well you know, and it's interesting that you say that because, um, you know, it's not necessarily just a one day thing. And I

say that in that the world was watching us. We've had a lot of stories on the Bloomberg about China saying, well, you know, us, you're kind of hypocrites because what's going on in your country and you're often critical about what's going on in ours. And I do think about the heightened tentions that will continue probably between US and China. So I do wonder what this means potentially for the US economy ultimately, and then how it plays its way

into investments. Yeah, I think you know, certainly the credibility of the US you know, took a hit yesterday, but you could make the argument it's been taken a hit for for a while here um on the global stage. And I think the real question or answer to your question is really going to be kind of what comes next and how the incoming administration kind of deals with this and with the world from a trade policy in

other aspects. And so I think, you know, if if if you kind of look at Biden's history, UM, it should be a more predictable at least kind of situation there, which would be gosh, you know, boring, would be great, uh these days. So I think it can we can we can get through it without a big hiccup if if we get some followed through from the from the next administration and kind of a transition from where we've been the past several years. Is there any indication to

you that that's looking like it's going to happen. Well, all you can do is kind of look at, um, kind of listen to the words of of what some of the incoming it illustrations has said, and kind of look at the history of maybe their policies in the past and and and what they've done. Um, you know, rejoining the Paris Climate Accord. Uh, you know, not implementing new teariffs on countries. You know, that would be a start in terms of kind of rejoining the world stage.

And uh, I think it would be helpful. Hey Walter, just quickly. Does it make you nervous that we're going to have even by a slim margin, but you've got Democrats basically with a clean sweep, you know in terms of um Congress and of course as well as the White House. Does it make you nervous? Because you know, I'm kind of tired of saying gridlock good for Washington. I don't know that that's always the case. Um, it'd be nice as an American citizen to see some things

get done ultimately. But how do you see it as an investor? Yeah? So I think the margin is so slim that it really prevents any kind of really dramatic policy changes. It does help, It will help the Democrats kind of get approvals for you know, their appointments and so forth. But I think you actually you're you're kind of getting the best of actually the best of both the worlds. That that means you know, more potentral spending,

and stimulus. We can talk about the long term applications of that, but then without maybe the big tax increases in some of the other more extreme policies that have been discussed in the election cycle. All Right, we're gonna leave it there, Hey, Walter, thank you so much. Happy New Year once again. Walter Todd, chief investment Officer at Greenwood Capital Associates, on the phone from Greenwood, South Carolina.

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