The Global Effort to Develop Vaccines

dot Com. You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, we mentioned some of the top headlines today concerning COVID and the vaccine um Maderno's vaccine for younger teens, but I also wanted to mention that a White House officials saying that half of American adults will be fully vaccinated as of today, Tim,

So we're definitely making progress in the United States. We are, and the number that the Biden administration is looking for a little over a month from now at the fourth of July, seventy of American adults having at least one shot. As far as the cases around the world, topping one hundred and sixty seven point four million deaths, succeeding three point four seven million. Back to vaccines, more than one

points six eight billion doses have been given. All right, let's get back to someone who has often been a guiding voice for us throughout the pandemic. We're talking about Dr Seth Letterman. He's co founder, CEO, and chairman of the New York based specialty pharmaceutical biopharmer company Tonics Pharmaceuticals, and he joins us on the phone in Bedford, Massachusetts. Um, Dr Letterman, could to have you here with Tim and myself.

There is a lot going on, and it does always feel like we're making some steps forward and uh every once in a while, though, of course, when we look at the numbers and look at around the world, we're reminded that we are not yet out of the health pandemic, at least not globally. How do you see kind of where we are in our world right now? Well, first, it's great to be back with you. I think that

your summary was very accurate. It feels really good in the in America with our vaccine supplies and cases dropping, but the world is still in a pretty tough place. I'd like to be optimistic, but as CEE of a company that's developing a vaccine and anti viral and the skin test, I'm paid to be pessimistic. So I am worried about the fall, about whether COVID is becoming seasonal.

I'm worried about the durability of vaccine protection. And I'm worried about the variants coming back to the United States from places like India and other places which one of those three things were easy the most. I think the vaccine durability is the biggest issue. The m RNA or the modified RNA vaccines are remarkable and I don't don't even have words to express how grateful we should be to the inventors and the developers of these vaccines who

have made such an important contribution. But it is a brand new technology. We don't know the durability. I think there's good data now for about six months of protection. But there are two kinds of immunity, antibody immunity and T cell immunity, and if, if, if the protection from these vaccines fades, then that would be more of a signature of antibody immunity so I think that we are all waiting to see if vaccinated people will be protected a year out right, and we've talked with you about

your your vaccine then X right. That is it's all about eliciting a T cell immunity exactly. We are developing t X eighteen hundred. It elicits a strong T cell immunity, and T cell immunity is the kind that can last for years or decades, and that's usually imparted by a live virus vaccine like the MMR Measles monster Bella vaccines. Those are three live virus vaccines given once in childhood. So we're optimistic. I'm hoping that the m RNA vaccines

will have durical protection, but we just don't know. We all don't know if can it be just as good revaccination. I'm just gonna say, can a booster shot though Dr Letterman basically kind of give us that reassurance and protection, Well, we just don't know. It's an excellent point. I know that, um uh, you know, there's been an idea that annual vaccinations with the mr ANDA vaccines might be good, but

we don't know. The mRNA vaccines are novel because they avoid the immune system, but we don't know how well they avoid it, and there's just no evidence to lead us to have a national policy that's based on annual revaccinations. I'm hopeful, I'm hopeful they're durable. I'm hopeful they can be used in re vaccination scenarios, but it's too early to tell. Dr Letterman. Where are you exactly in the development of your vaccine. We expect to be in human

trials early in next year. In we've announced very encouraging data in monkeys that have been challenged with COVID to the virus that causes COVID. But we are still developing a preparation of our vaccine that meets the high standard to be tested in humans. Our vaccine takes longer to develop the manufacturing protocols that we expect once it's once

we've been through it the first time. Actually, our cost of goods, our doses and the rest of it are probably more suitable for wide deployment, uh than the existing m RNA vaccine. You said that one thing that concerned you was durability of the m RNA vaccines. So I'm wondering about not about durability of your vaccine, but about

resistance that it has to potential variants. Well, the the T cell vaccines we think will be more robust to covering the different variants than some of the other vaccines that are more focused on antibodies. Dr Letterman, we were we were finishing up talking about your vaccine that you're developed, that's in development a Tonic Tonics Pharmaceuticals, And I know because it is a public traded company and because regulatory reasons,

you can't be exact with with dates. But what's a realistic way for us to think about if it goes to clinical trials in humans starting next year, when could it become available for widespread potential emergency use authorization? UM I think we would take at least a year after the first clinical studies because you see seen from the FIS or Moderne experiences, you need large studies to show the effects. But part of it will be influenced by

how prevalent the infection is, how prevalent COVID is. Hopefully again hopefully COVID will be less and less prevalent and then it will take us longer to develop it. But if there is a big rebound because of seasonality, the variant or you know, maybe because of the waning of protection from the existing vaccines, then you know, things could move more quickly. You know. It's interesting. We have a

story coming up. It's in a Blueberg business Week magazine and it's specifically taking a look at Cuba and the work that they have done in vaccines. And Tim and I were kind of marveling as we came into the studio today about who knew you know, all of the work that Cuba is doing in the bio sense bioscience sector specifically, and they've they've got advanced vaccines that they've been working on. You know, uh when it comes to

lung cancer and so on. It's actually I think before FDA approval, it does remind me and we we saw that certainly with COVID. You know that when you tap the world, you know, maybe what we can come together

on and ultimately solve. And I do wonder, since this is your world, how is the world change when it comes to really working on global solutions global vaccines not just done something like COVID, but the next virus that's going to you know, kind of turn the world into a tailspin or send the world to a talpan or on some of the diseases and ailments that really plague our society. Well, I think COVID has brought the world

together in the research community. But even looking at something like the Fasier vaccine, which is you know, just remarkable. I mean, the original work started with Drew Weissman and Catalan Krrico at the University of Pennsylvania. She's American born, but she's Hungarian. UM and then if you look at their major partner, bio in Tech, is based in Mainz, Germany. UM and UH is run largely by a husband and wife team who are Turkish, and you know, you could go on and on and on. So I don't know

that science has any borders that you know. Basically these are well and into people getting together and putting their best ideas together. So I think that this really is a global effort, even if the most wrecking noizeable UM sponsor of it is a global pharmaceutical files are based in New York City. I think that you know, there really is a global effort. And um you know, the the change of information, the way that articles have come

out so quickly, people rushing together. It's been a wonderful UM community effort. Hey, Dr Letterman, Um, what's the way that we get to widespread vaccination in the United States. What's the right conversation to have with people who are still hesitant to take one of these vaccines that's available. I wish I knew the answer. I'm hopeful that time will will be a deciding factor. I think that a

lot of people don't want to be first. They want to see that other people have gotten it, that you know that the that the benefits are evident, and things like that. So hopefully time and information will come through. I think, Um, you know, it was very difficult to have the pandemic at all, but it was also difficult to of it during an election year. And I think that now that the messaging to people is much more consistent, that you know, the vaccines are safe and effective. I

hope slowly people will come through. But there are other things that will be incentives. For example, the CDC recommendations saying if you're vaccinated, you don't have to wear a mask in many places, going back to work, going back to school. A lot of these places can regulate whether someone can do something if they're vaccinated or not. All right, Dr Seth Laderman, thank you so much. Co founder, CEO, chairman of Tonics Pharmaceuticals on the phone from New Bedford, Massachusetts.

I meager the stock up about sixty percent so far this year, trading for a dollar thirteen. So just to kind of give you some perspective in terms of movements, this is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovan on Bloomberg Radio. So you might recall last week at the Bloomberg Live or to vent Bloomberg Business Week, we caut up at Jason Lynn, the

director behind a massively successful Fast and Furious franchise. While the latest installment term out this past weekend called F nine, opened internationally, most of the tickets sales happening in the biggest market in the world, China. There was a lot going on. Well it makes sense given given the status of reopening in China versus the United States. Exactly, we're gonna talk about the movie industry. Theaters opening up right here on Bloomberg Business Week. So let's talk about the

theater industry. Someone who's got a front row seat to that F nine opening and just what's going on and great to be talking with him again. Is I'm AXIEO Richard Gelfon, He joins us on the phone in New York City, rich and so nice to have you here with Tim and myself. How are you, Um, I'm great, and especially great because of what you alluded to with the opening of F nine weekend. Um. You know, it's it's been a long cold winter, as you guys are quite aware, and it's nice to have the good old

fashioned Hollywood blockbuster back. And I inc. F nine really opened up like a Hollywood blockbuster. It did hundred sixty million dollars globally, hundred thirty five million dollars in China. IMAX's market share was very healthy. It's our biggest opening, um in you know, since before the pandemic started. So feeling a lot better than I was a few weeks ago, Carol. That's a big change. How I mean, how are you feeling a few weeks ago? And what changed that? Was it?

This opening weekend? Especially globally? You know, probably be more honest than I should be. This has been one of the most frustrating periods of the pandemic for me, and that's because I think the world is really ready to go back to the movies, and I think there are a lot of movies that are ready to go, but I think not every territory in the world is ready

at the same time and the same pace. And the traditional distribution model would say you open up globally at one time all over the world, but you know, guess what, this just isn't the time without works, so that this

time is called for different kinds of models. And as a result, um, the studios, who mostly were located in Hollywood, we're looking out their windows and saying the pandemic is really not doing well here, ignoring the fact that you know, they've been blockbusters in Japan and China and Korea and Taiwan for months. So I think kind of we've been ready in a lot of places, but the movies just

haven't been there. And one of the things that was really unique about the release of F nine was it was released in China about five weeks before it's being released in the rest of the world, which is a different model. And I think most of the studios have played it really conservative and said we're not opening anywhere until we could open everywhere. Um. But fortunately universal you know, took a risk in doing this, and it opens in

the US in late June, but it really worked. And I think you need to demonstrate that people want to go back to the movies, and you need the kind of numbers that we had in order to get people a studios comfortable opening in their movies. So I think this was a pretty big deal. Yeah. Well, what's interesting is I remember you saying to when you and I talked um at that Bloomberg Live event. I think it

was back in April. You know how you guys went into COVID earlier because of China and then came out of it earlier too because of China, And that how China in many ways has been a guiding light about kind of where we're going and how the world is reopening. Not apples to apples, I understand that, but it has helped us give us a little bit of kind of the way forward in terms of how the world maybe reopens. Yeah,

I think that's definitely the case. I think the big distinguished thing thing between China and other places, though, is China didn't vaccinate at the level that other places did and mostly achieved it's kind of feeling of safety and low results through social contact tracing and other means that

we're not used here in the West. So in a way, as good as China has been, um, places like North America could be even better once it really opens up, because I imagine you guys noticed that the Nick Game the other night, there were fifteen thousand people, um, you know, having a great time. And I really feel that it's going to be like the Roaring twenties and people at once they get out of the house and you know, they can go back to what their lives were like before.

I think that's going to happen very quickly, and I think you know it. As I said, it's happening in Asia, and there's no reason I think that that won't happen here. Well, I'm wondering about that specifically here in the US, because we have seen companies like Disney and Warner Media as it has is still called, release theatrical releases to streaming

direct consumer. And I'm wondering if you think that consumers have been conditioned to enjoy this stuff at home rather than in a theater, and that might not provide the incentive for them to get back to what they were doing before the pandemic because now they've been able to do it from their couch and not get a babysitter. Yeah. I mean that's a narrative that I think a lot of the streaming services are promoting. But I don't really

think it's going to play out that way. I mean, people were locked in their living rooms, were locked in their kitchens. So when you're locked in your living room, you watch movies on your television set. When you locked in your kitchen, you don't go to restaurants. You eat in your kitchen when you're allowed to go out. I mean you look at almost every behavior. Look at what's gone on with the restaurants in New York and London and Los Angeles. I mean people weren't condition the only

bringing in food. They were limited by the circumstances to doing that. And you even look at um Um one of the recent films, god Zilla Versus Kang that was released simultaneously by Warner Media um in imax. We sold out about a thousand shows around the United States when people could get it for free if they were subscribers on their TV sets. So I just don't think that's

the way it is. I mean, people go to the movies, partly for escapism, partly for social reasons, partly for social activity, probably to get away from their kids, probably to get away from their parents. You know, everyone has a different reason. But I don't think they're gonna say, oh, I'd much rather watch this in my living room with my family, which is what I've been doing for the last fifteen months. That's oh g, it's this summer. Can't wait to do

that on Saturday night. I just think I am I am being sarcastic, but continue but one second, and sorry Carol, but it was an interim solution designed for pandemic. And I don't blame anybody. I mean, if you're Disney, you're Warner, you know the movie theaters are closed. You've got this content you paid for, You've got to do something with it. And by the way, streaming happens to be something that

the stock market likes an awful lot. So you say, oh, I'll stream, but they know that that's that's made for a time and a place. And again, I don't want to make too much of it, but if you look at the recent results and the and the projections from the streaming services during the last quarter, as the pandemic has started to fade. You know, the numbers for streaming of you know, not kept pace with where they were

in the pandemic. And again that's logical, and people are still going to stream certain things, but for big blockbuster movies like IMAX does no one's gonna look forward to spending Saturday night on the couch with the parents rich. To be fair, just like you're saying the narrative of the streaming guys, they're kind of talking their book to some extent. I think it's safe to say that you're talking your book about people coming back. But I mean, what do you then make of all the streaming deals

that are happening right now? We're kind of on, you know, the edge of our seat, waiting for Amazon to maybe announce that they are acquiring the MGM. You know, studios line up in library. Uh. And so you've worked in mergers and acquisitions. You're an investment, but you understand this world. Do you think this is just a cycle that runs out of steam or do you think there's real momentum Because there's some things that changes, but as a result

of the pandemic that will stay with us. And I think there's a lot that would say that streaming is part of that. I think streaming is part of it, but I think in a different way than it was during the pandemic. I think for niche movies and movies that you know, cost less in a budget and have to find a specific audience, releasing them direct to streaming will make sense because the marketing costs are extremely high to do that reaching your consumer and a niche market

is difficult to find. And I think those things will continue to stream. Also, almost every studio has come up now with a forty five day window where they'll they'll stream forty five days after opening. And I think, if anything, that's going to make the content more valuable and the theatrical run more valuable to the studio. Because remember, how did HBO get started? How did um um, how did

Netflix get started? They streamed Hollywood movies and those movies got a lot of exposure, got a brand, got good word of mouth. I've got brand recognition, built sequels, and then people paid a lot to go stream them. Um. You know, as I'll ask you a question, name five stream movies from Netflix last year? Um? You know? Uh. And by the way, it is a trick question because I was just in l A and I asked ten people that and nobody can name five stream movies during

and that's streaming. When I was growing up, there were TV movies and then there were real movies. I think now there's going to be real movies and streaming movies. But do theaters have to do something rich to kind of bring everybody back? Like listen, I love that the seat's got more comfy, that I can stretch out like that has it's a reason for me to go to theaters. I know people who it's become a real date night where they're in a little cocoon and there's drinks and

their food and it's like an experience. But you know, I don't know if that's just the minority or do the majority wants something wrong? You know more that you know experience experiential aspect of it. Does it have to be amped up? Yeah? I think it does. And I

think that's why IMAX is doing really well. So if you look at our results in Asia, our market share has gone up in virtually every country post pandemic because I think you know, people who have been watching in their living rooms and watching their televisions, they when they leave,

they want to do something really special. So I think, you know, that's why IMAX has been very successful over the last number of years, and that's why I think will be even more successful during this because filmmakers make these big films to be seen on the big screen and to be heard with the big sound. And UM, you know, I think you're completely right, and um you know, God knows. I hope you're even more and more right

because we'll be a beneficiary of that trend. Hey, Rich I'm wondering how your business changes, how the economics of IMAX changes when you have more consolidation within the studios when Discovery and uh Warner Media are tied up. If Amazon and MGM studios are tied up, are they going to charge you more? No, I don't. You have to look on in a very individual basis. So Discovering made unscripted content and none of that really went into the

theatrical ecosystem. So by merging with Warner you're not really losing the studio. You're getting Actually, I think a more pro theatrical management team behind one of the best studios that's existed for a long time. Um. I think if Amazon ends up buying MGM. They're buying it for their you know, their expertise in television program which programming, which fits perfectly with Amazon's prime strategy. I don't think Amazon is gonna, you know, start putting Bond on your telephone.

I mean, I just don't think that's the way I'm double O seven or or the Broccoli family, which owns a lot of those rights, wants to see that franchise go. I mean, MGM has not been in the blockbuster business except for a Bond for a while. They've been really in the TV business. I think it makes a lot of sense for Amazon and fits right in. So I I don't think, UM, there's gonna be a loss of content. No, Hey, we wanted to also ask you about working in China.

I mean, you've been in the market, you UM have figured out a way forward, and I feel like it gets more and more complicated between the East versus the West,

particularly when you're talking about China. There's a story, it's among the most read on the Bloomberg Today about UM actor and former w w E champion John Cena apologizing for describing Taiwan as a country in a promotional video that he did for his latest movie and saying sorry ultimately in Mandarin after the comments triggered a backlash in China. Is the world allowing China too much say and control? In your view, especially when it comes to kind of

the arts and culture. I mean, China is such a complicated place. And I've been going to China for almost twenty five years. And the way I'm ex dealt with China is we created a separate entity UM in Hong Kong Cold I'm at China, and it's owned by a lot of people in mainland China people in Hong Kong. It's staffed by almost completely Chinese people. It's senior management

team is Chinese. And we've been one of the most successful Western media companies in China UM, and I think the reason for that is because we haven't tried to come in and be a US company in China. We've

tried to be a Chinese company in China. And I think a lot of the media entertainment companies have missed that nuance a little bit and have tried to set up a branch office run by an American who heads that branch, and the Chinese are very proud people and they're obviously their culture is really important to them, and I think trying to manage their culture on remote control is difficult, and I think there are a lot of pitfalls,

and we're seeing a lot of those. So we've taken a different approach and I think gets worked for us, and I would expect that other people are going to learn from that and take a similar approach. Hey, one thing I want to ask you, because we are awaiting, UM, some comments from the family of George Floyd, who was meeting with President Biden today. This is, of course the one year anniversary of the death of George Floyd. Early

on in the pandemic. You know, we talked with you about or you know we talked with you about a month ago, but how early on in the pandemic and some of the difficult issues of a racism and writing and companies were dealing with that. George Floyd, of course, black lives matter, and you said that you had some outside pr consults that told you to basically hide and be quiet. You felt otherwise, what is the responsibility of global corporations on on things like racism and what happened

to George Floyd? I mean, obviously, UM, George Floyd was murdered, and thank god, um always, you know, one of the killers was brought to justice, and that's you know, that's the bedrock of American you know, really happy that that happened. Um. In terms of a corporate response, I mean, at the time, we did a number of internal things. We've you know, we we put together a committee, We've done different things

on diversity recruiting, and we'll continue to do them. But I don't think, um, there's one stock answer for every company. So you know, for example, I don't know whether you're aware of this, but I'm act as a Canadian company and we do business in eighty four countries. So I think maybe our responsibility and our views are different than

a company that is the US company completely. I mean, there are just a lot of conflicting issues, but I do think all companies have a duty when there's massive social injustice to engage in some way and to make

sure their employees feel hurt. Can you talk a little bit about what you're doing inside the company, because that's something that we've been talking about all day at Bloomberg Quicktake, and and something that I've been thinking a lot about a lot because In the last year, we got a lot of commitment from from companies about how they're trying to hire more diverse talent across the companies and making changes within the company. What specifically are you guys doing

at Imax. Well, you know, it's it's never enough, but you should know that in the five years I'm from uh, five years ago to now, my management team is about women or people of diversity, and that was you know, we did that before you know, any of these efforts

became public. And you know, we're trying to add more women to our board and more people of color, and we've been somewhat successful in doing that, but we have I'm farther to go and I think I'm preaching tolerance day today and inclusiveness and you know, that's the way we always try to model our culture and this just reinforces it. But I do wonder too, especially when you're

a publicly held entity. We talked about this, whether it's E. S G. Climate change, um, but you social responsibilities and invest You know, there's a lot of speak, as you know, rich about the importance of diversity, and yet it does still feel like when it comes to actual actions and you know, your company aside that companies still are kind of slow to make change. Why is that. Well, I can only speak for my own company, and I told you we completely remade our management team and are in

the process of remaking significant parts of our board. So you know, not to point fingers than anyone, but it's harder for bigger companies. Were relatively small company, so we can be much more agile. And I think also because UM we're so diverse geographically, you know, we have a different perspective, you know, coming into it. Like you know, for example, in Asia, we have a hundred and fifty employees.

In China, we have an office in Japan, So you know, we don't have to be encouraged or sensitized on how we feel about Asians. They're part of our company, They're part of our DNA. So maybe that's part of your answer. Size of the company and you know, its roots being diverse or its roots being more singular. Hey, rich One, you and I talked back in April to UM and just kind of going back to the impact you know, the pandemic has had on so many of us in

so many different ways. You mentioned to me that the pandemic opened your eyes that you can't be a one trick pony and and Tim and I were talking about, you know, innovation is one thing Tim, right, we talked about a lot with companies we do, and I'm wondering how you are innovating at Imax and what's in the pipeline, because before the pandemic, the narrative was, Okay, this is about the experience economy. How do we get people to do things that they cannot do at home, they can't

do online, and they can only do in person. And of course seeing a movie on an IMAX screen in an IMAX studio is a way that you do that. But I mean, how do you take that even further? Yes, So I was going to say this country, this company has been built on innovation and some of this might surprise you. At UM stadium seating was invented by Imax.

UM we were the first ones, more recently to launch laser projection on a global basis, advanced sound systems, special cameras that we built, whether to go into space, which we've done, or to go to the bottom of the ocean. We've always been a leading innovator in an industry not

known for innovation. UM UM in the movie industry, but during the pandemic we stepped it up a little more and we worked with a company that's fairly well known in the founders of our company, of our partner in artificial intelligence had started a company called ken Show, which is now owned by SMP and it's the largest sale

of an AI company, and we're working with them. We announced the joint venture to figure out how to enhance images, so whether they're old movies or old sports events, and there are a lot of uses for that, whether in hardware or software. We haven't fully outlined outlined it yet. UM. We've got another new product for I'm streaming on large

screen TVs in the home. It's called IMAX Enhanced, and we've done a deals with Sony, in ten Cent and others where when you have content that's been put through the process and you watch it on these big screens, it looks better than an otherwise would by a significant amount. UM. We've been working on our direct to consumer app. UM we're looking at putting live content in our theaters. So we're always purged to look on how we can innovate.

And in fact, not many people will say this, but you know, Despite all the horrible things about the pandemic, one good thing is it gave you, you know, a reset. It gave you the time and the ability to use a lot of your people to try and look for new ways to innovate. Yeah, it's interesting. I think people were worried about you wouldn't be able to do that, but ultimately we found a way forward with that. Hey, Rich,

thank you so much. So happy to talk with you, uh and really a nice deep diving conversation there, and look forward to checking in with you again, uh further in the year and hopefully we just continue this reopening globally. UM, so so great, Thank you so much. I'm axo. Rich Galfon on the phone in New York City. I can't even remember the last time. I was just trying to think of but you know what, we had a kid a year before the pandemic, so we haven't been to

the theater since before then. Yeah, there was a point, but I know I went with Aggie's probably God, I'm just trying to think what it was. I don't know. I think we saw probably an Avenger movie, that great rock climbing documentary. I forget what it's called. It was so good. It was a long time ago a journal. Yeah, but you let me drive. No, no, honey, please, I'll do the drivel. I want to drive. Just drive by the questions trying. This is the drive to the globe community. Thanks,

we'll drying us down on Bloomberg Radio. All right, everybody, Yep, it's Tuesday. I gotta check my calendar. There it is. It doesn't feel like one of those weeks it does for the markets. Oh my god. Yeah, it's kind of crazy and I feel like you're it's playing out that way in the trading day. Let's get to it. Close to me, President portfolio manager at Smeat Capital Management, on

the phone in Phoenix, Arizona. Smeat Value Fund. Check it out, beating just about all of its peers so far this year, up on beating most of its piers two over the past five years, returning on average more than annually. Call how are you doing? How about you guys doing well? Doing well? Um? Tell us. You know what we love about talking with you is you guys are buying, your selling, your taking moves. Um. You love the discovery move with a T and T. Let's just go right to it

because we have been talking about streaming every day. We're waiting to see if Amazon ultimately does that MGM deal. Why do you like the Discovery A T and T deal.

It's a great question. We've been involved with Discovery since late seventeen, and we actually were involved with Scripts prior to the transaction where they bought UM Scripts, and you know, Discovery, as Barry Diller said last week, UM went from being UM, you know, nothing to a something under the leadership of David sass Laught since that company has gone public back in oh seven, and UM sath last took what was you know, really kind of considered low grade content reality

television and made it a highly profitable business, and no one expected that, might I add, and now he with a background where he was at NBC Universal for years, is going to take UM, you know, scripted television. He's gonna be taking news and sports and putting into those into one place. And I think the irony is they yet again do not believe in his leadership or the

assets they have. In comparison and UM having the blessing of the Malone and new House family, UM in toe with an effect a takeover by A T and T shareholders of Discovery. We think it's got quite a bit of fun all around it, and we're very pleased to be involved a shareholder. Did you buy more Discovery as a result. Uh, well, let's let's slow this way. I compliance officers probably listening, so I will say, UM, we

find it interesting. We were what we've been doing with the run up and Discovery you know, through this year, is we were actually buying non voting shares UM, and so we're we're kind of blown at the spread between the voting versus non voting. We saw that in the day. Yeah. Yeah, and Malone also said he won't take a premium on his super voting, which was even a higher price. So UM. I think while Amazon is finishing up their deal with MGM, the other interesting part is this movie business of of

this um. You know the Warner Brothers studio, if you will, it's a highly marketable asset. UM. So yes, there's debt going on in this, but not to say that there's not assets that they could divest if they want. And we know there's buyers. We know Apple needs content, we know Google needs content. There's a big short on content. UM. And I would also say to you guys that all these businesses are in play. Lions Gates in play, Vicom, CBS is in play, Discoveries in play, time, Warners in

play for Warner Medias and play. Excuse me, um, I think it's only going to heat up because the pockets and the stock prices and the money that could come after them from the likes of Apple and Google are incredible. Do you think NBCUniversal, owned by Comcast right now, is in play? Uh? Well, how I you know? Uh? Using Malone's comments UM from the last week, he said that it's problematic for Comcast because of the regulatory They own the data, they know a lot about the customer, and

they have the content. UM. I think you could also see where they could get a deal done where they kind of step back arm's length UM, where it's not directly held by Comcast. But UM, let's say you have a co ownership or part of it sold UM to get a deal where you bring in other people's assets into the NBC Universal fold. So I think the possibilities are endless at this point. That's the way I look

at it. So in terms of other streaming things that might happen deals, are there any investments that you've made based on your expectations of something that might happen. No, No, I mean we we really like this, and by we own Comcast as well. That's why I say that from that perspective. But I think the truth is we're going to find out in this era is that only media

people are good at media. And why we we found that every era Coca Cola sucked at at doing movie pictures at one point, um the conglomerates got into the movie business. Gulf and Western was an example of that with Paramount so Um. What's interesting today is we think that big behemoth corporations a k a. Tech companies are going to be better at media than media people, which is kind of mind blowing relative to history. So so, Tara La Chapelle, a Bloomberg opinion has a column out

today and you're quoted in it. I noticed, um, is Amazon's MGM deal a game changer? And you and she draws this connection between what happened with Amazon and Whole Foods, and you told her the biggest mistake of Jeff bezos career was buying Whole Foods. Um, excuse me, that was Bill Smeat. I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, that was your dad wrong smeat. But but I do I am interested in this idea of the of the of you guys thinking

about this from Amazon's perspective. So what can Amazon do if if it's been such a mistake for them to buy whole foods, what does Amazon do with MGMs content? We'll see that here's the reality to whether it be the whole foods at the MGM, it can never be a meaningful part of the overall size of the business. And I'll give you another relic of history. Okay, Um, don't forget that Expedia came out of Microsoft. Was Expedia a very successful online travel agent answers? Yes, it's one

of the two. It's an old adopaly it's booking in them. But inside Microsoft, it was not a meaningful business and it never was going to be. Um, even today it's a non meaningful size of a business rolls to the Microsoft. So and that's the problem is that history would argue when you see businesses diversifying, you should get really nervous because it should tell you what's wrong with the core business that makes them want to go into a new arena.

And today we applaud it because the market has incredible confidence in the data or in the management team or whatever. That is the problem is we should all be asking what's wrong with the core business and why are we going to a different direction? All right, So tell us what else do you like or anything that you've been buying home building our names that you guys love, NVR,

d h I, LNAR. Also, we've got some housing data today. Um, there was some of it a little bit troubling, but maybe not surprising in terms of prices, especially with the demand that's out there. Um, how do you see the housing market playing out? Are continuing to play out? It's gonna be wonderful. We share with people that we were gonna go to fifty percent higher home building numbers, um assuredly over the next decade at some point, and people say that's impossible. And what I love about that is

the economists should say it's possible. But it's based on price, and that's the way we're gonna get enough labor and inputs and so on and so forth. So this is not a short term phenomena. It's not a sugar high like people running their steamy checks out of the casino or out of the robin hood accounts. We're talking about where people live, and so it's a completely different thing. The other thing, I would say, the mall business is gonna boom. It's already booming in markets that's that have

been open. And we think the economics of names like Mace rich In Simon Property Group are going to make people cry at a later date because pre pandemic mall business sucked. Post pandemic is winning and winning great Tilman I thought Tilman for Tita being interviewed earlier today. And you can't find a restaurant that's not booming right now, and they're paying up for all kinds of delicacies at

at nice restaurants. And that's wonderful for a mall because that's a kind of property business that sits on a mall. If those restaurants find parking at our mall, and here in Arizona, we've been open for a year, location location, Look, if those restaurants can find employee exactly, yeah, exactly. It's tough to find employees, but you know what a booming business where it's tough to find employee, that's the first

world problem in my book. All right, we gotta run. Hey, Cole, thank you so much to how do your dad calls to me? President and Portfolio Mager. It's Meat Capital Management on the phone from Phoenix, Arizona. Listen. Their value fund has been a top performer consistently over the years, and I love it that we get to talk on names.

Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube. Sarah to Bloomberg Global News Number,