Tesla Runs on Faith, Exxon on Discipline

You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. There's a lot of things going on, and in particular we are seeing Tim a lot of individuals institutions working with sectors and segments of the US to encourage vaccine participation. And our next guest definitely has some thoughts on that. Yeah. Red Buttle is the founder of Public Private Strategies, also senior Fellow at

the Aspen Institute. Joining us on the phone from Washington, d C. Rehet Caroline, I talk a lot about how well when when it comes to COVID, We talk a lot about everything when it comes to code. But two things that I've been been focused on as the US vaccination effort has has done really well. One is how do we get you know, I keep referring it to it as like the last mile, right, how do we get those people vaccinated who aren't being proactive about making appointments?

And then also what does it look like if we do have to get that booster shot And this is the type of thing that we have to do every single year to prevent little outbreaks of of the pandemic. So what is the right way for for companies to approach this, like is this the flu shot? Like we get at work now? Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me, and you write employers of all sizes have a role to play. You know, we've

specifically launched network focused on small businesses. And what we know from research is that you know, as you're talking about vaccine, hesitant populations, messengers or everything, and so really you know, this is about meeting the consumer where it's at. In this case, it's about meeting each American where it's at. And we really think that employers and in particular small businesses have a role as a trusted institution and really

encouraging people to get their COVID facting. Well, tell us specifically about this initiatives initiative that you got out of way right right, Excuse me to reimagine main Street initiative. What is it about? What are you looking to do and what is it that's holding small businesses, particularly those maybe of color of you know, minority small businesses that maybe are preventing workers from getting the vaccine. Is it that they don't want to or that it's just difficult

for them to get the time to do it. Absolutely, So we launched this initiative about a year ago when COVID nineteen broke out to really make sure that small business owners and in particular business owners of color, were

at the center of our recovery. And so we've been working on research and ultimaker advocacy, and now we've added a new leg to this campaign, which is really using small employers as a vehicle to get information out because small business owners are some of the most trusted institutions in our country. They rank number two according to Gallop and quite frankly, the people who work for them trust them.

And as you talked about, you know, particularly in communities of color, a lot of folks are unsure about the vaccine. Some of that is because of deep racism in our country, and rightfully so, what we know just how important this vaccine is to not only our public health but getting

our economy open again. And it's not uncommon. Right to see employers, We've seen employers do unique stuff around the food vaccine um in this case, you know, for this first time effort, it's really important because these main street businesses engaged in these communities, their workers turn to them, their communities, uh look and see you know what what small business owners have to say about issues, and so we think they have the search and so in addition

to providing education tools and resources, we've launched out Vaccine Leaders Pledge program for business owners to sign up, and we've curtailed information and resources to small business owners who want to talk to their employees and their communities about why this is important to not only getting public health BacT,

but quite frankly to getting our economy will reopen. I think it's one thing for for people to trust their employer and understand that the vaccine is the right thing to do, but it's an entirely different thing to get on their phone schedule that appointment at a time that they're not at work, and then also schedule that that follow up appointment as well. So how do you make it as easy as possible for somebody who hasn't able

to get a vaccine yet to do it? Well, I think that's where we see you know, this is this role of the employer coming in and so we've seen it employers doing really neat things. There's an amazing hair salon and Ohio is working to actually what could their customers for vaccine apointments when they come into this blond

That's one example of an above and beyond effort. But as an employer, it's also really important to be able to create that space for your employees to get educated, but also letting them know that maybe you're going to give them paid time off when they're going to get their vaccine and give them paid time off to re cover so they don't feel the pressure of necessarily having to this work and the burden that comes with that

as an exper incentive to make sure that they get vaccinated. Hey, Red, how big of a problem do you think it is among this small business community in terms of their workers or their business owners not going out and getting the vaccine specifically, or is it more that you're just thinking about the communities around them. I think it's two reasons. You know, One is because of this trusted status that

I'm talking about. You know, we're living in an interesting time where a lot of people don't don't necessarily trust media, they don't trust the government, but they do trust their employers. In particular, they trust small business, So we think they're important. But also half of Americans work for small business owners, and actually about a hundred million Americans financial lives in

some cases depend on a small business. So they are a really important channel for getting information out and touching touching individuals. And so that's really why we've chosen this channel in particular as a way to get information out. How do you think about areas outside of the US. That was the other thing that Caroline I talked about all the time is how this the pandemic is is. Look, we didn't we have not done a great job in the United States overall, but when it comes to vaccinations,

we are certainly leading the world right now. But it's not the same story in the vast majority of the world. Yeah, before I worked outside government, I actually had the publice of serving at the Department of Helping Human Services, and I did a lot of work on E Bowla And you know, early on, one of the reasons we responded so quickly to the E Bowla prominent applicised because we knew that our world is in our connected it right,

and that is so important for especially business today. And so, you know, this is a global issue and you know why we're making great progress here in the United States. I'm encouraged by the Biden Administration's efforts to rejoin KOVAC, to rejoin the World Health Organization because this is really a global problem and it doesn't stop. You know, a virus like this, uh sees no boarders, no boundaries, right, and so we really have to think about a global approach.

And so right now we're focused on you know, getting everyone vaccinated at home, and then at the same time, because we can walk and you know, to publicum, at the same time, we're working on building our credibility back across the world. Helped virus as well. Well. Listen, it's a reminder of small businesses. They play a crucial role

in communities. That's where conversations happen and you do think about, especially something like the vaccine getting a message out, how productive that can be those small business owners, in particular Red Bottle, Thank you so much. Founder of Public Private Strategies. It's a consulting firm. He's also senior fellow at the Aspen Institute. Re Joining us on the phone from Washington, d C. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser

from Bloomberg Radio. Writing for Bloomberg Business Week this week Bloomberg opinion columnist Liam Denning, who takes a look at the future of energy from really tim management perspective. It's

a great business school case study. It's looking at Elon Musk of course, the see of Tesla and Darren Woods, his counterpart at ex On Mobile and safe to say, I gotta tell you, I had to actually look up the name of ex On Mobile CEO because I didn't remember that that's who was He should be tweeting more about dog coin maybe or maybe not, or just worrying about the future of energy anyway. This story is the

remarks for the upcoming issue of Bloomberg Business Week. And joining us with more Bloomberg Business Week gator Joe Weber on the access Line in Brooklyn and Bloomberg Opinion Energy, Mining and commodities columnist Liam Denning. He's on the phone in New York, Joe. Let's start with you. Though. I love this. It really is a case study of two very different CEOs. Yeah, and I had the same reaction when I was reading it, like Darren who and um, for the most part, investors have kind of felt the

same way. I think. But but I think, um, you know, one of the reasons that we are really into this is like, look like earning earning season upon us and Tesla versus x On. Can you like imagine two different

corporate stories or leadership styles. And what I thought, Um, Liam did a really good job of hitting on was like, you know, for the most part, one is just really ran on faith and obviously that's more Tesla, while Exxon has been known for this real dogged nous on on numbers, and yet one is having a completely different version of reality than the other over the past long haul and and this year to date, which I'm sure we'll talk about,

has been a little bit different. But but Lea, how did you ultimately settle on putting these two leaders in the spotlight as sort of opposite forces, if you will. I think it's just because we're a really interesting moment

for both of them. So you remember last year UM xn's market cap shut up like a fact or seven went way past x UM and you know, as you may recall, there are a flurry of stories about that and how it symbolized the transition from you know, the oil age to the electric age and that sort of thing. But I think it's it's interesting because the way I think about it is, you know, if you go back a few years, Exon was the most valuable company in

the world. It could kind of do no wrong UM and investors had this kind of rock solid belief in it. And here we are, you know, just a few short years later in early UM. Exon is you know, it's been through some traveling times, it's run pretty much the same as it always has been, but it's lost that kind of belief from investors, where Tesla, you know, despite everything it does that you think would shake belief, UM just has this kind of fanatical devotion on the part

of investors. So I just always an interesting way of looking at these two companies opposite ends of the energy business. It's really interesting and I thought, man, this would be grea to like just sit down with a bunch of people like we are doing now and just talk about it like you do. Wonder because both liam are optimistic long term and how can that be possible? Can it be possible that they both have at least in the somewhat longer term, you know, optimistic futures or is that impossible?

I think it's impossible. You know, there is one viewpoint that says, well, look, the energy transition will take time, and these both of these companies can certainly make money for some period. But I think when you look at their core belief systems, they're just very different. I mean, you know, Bloomberg an e f Our own in house forecasters.

You know, they're pretty bullish on electric vehicles, but even they see it as taking a little while, um, maybe into the middle of the thirties to see like serious market penetration. Elon must sees it happening much quicker than that. You look at Excel mogul Um, they're more in the it will take time, camp we can develop new businesses that sort of thing. I just think that the the the sheer aggressiveness of each view makes them incompatible. You know, one of one of these is going to work out

to be true, but not both. It does seem like the money right now is on Tesla, though it's it's hard to imagine a world where fossil fuels in a company that really is focused on fossil fuels ends up being the one that survives, right. I think longer term, for you know, fossil fuels are going to peak and decline absolutely. Um. I think it's a question of degree. You know, um Exon has suffered mainly because it made

some really bad tactical errors. Um you know, stretching all the way back to about a decade ago when it brought this very expensive gas business where it ended up writing off quite a lot of it at the end of last year, and there have been other mistakes I think where it gets a little unbelievable, as if you look at Tesla. I mean, clearly there is a lot of money flowing into clean tech right now and there

is a bright future for that business. But you know, you look at Tesla, It's made about billion dollars of profit over the last six quarters. It's valued at like seven billion dollars. Um has the market got a bit ahead of itself on Tesla. I would say, yes, well that kind of speaks to you know, how Excen specifically has performed this year year today, uh Liam and and

that number actually really jumped out to me. Um So talk about like why why an x and might be able to continue to performing in the shorter term while while as in the long run we can might still the market might be right to be bullish on Tesla. Yeah, I think in the short term what Excen is doing, it's a couple of things. One is that it's just at the oil price has recovered a bit from the from the COVID pandemic, so that's kind of lifted all

oil companies. I think the other thing is excellent has you know, it's excell was kind of aloof for the longest time. I mean, I think I mentioned in the piece that Darren Wood's made made headlines just for showing up on an earning cool uh And and they've actually had to listen, you know, they actually had activists show

up and had to engage with them. And so they have, They've adjusted their stance, They've they've reigned in spending, they've started acknowledging that there is actually an energy transition and there there potentially going to start businesses. But look at that. So they're they're coming back, partly because the all price is coming back, but partly because they seem to have

acknowledged their past mistakes with Tesla. There is there is, there is a core story of the energy transition, and that's that's right, of course, but it's also a function of the fact that we are we are in a moment in markets where that kind of long term vision thing is meeting you know, very low interest rates and you do get some fantastic valuations. Well, we're definitely at a point where there is this option this industry. There's still a lot of cars on the road that are

you know, gas guzzlers. And at the same time, we had the Tesla story over the weekend, you know, with the car crash killing to no one appeared to be appeared to be driving, And it's just a reminder that it's not also an easy or just path forward without some speed bumps along the way, certainly for something like Tesla. Joe Weber at Liam Denning, thank you so much. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg quick

takes Tim Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. Well, the developed world taking care of the developing world when it comes to COVID and vaccine distribution. That's something that just last month we talked about with Nobelle Lloyd and Columbia University professor Joseph Stiglet's check it out. The developing countries, particularly in emerging markets, are not on tracked to have the kind of UH light at the end of the tunnel that

we're beginning to see in the United States. We're getting vaccinated, and there are many many countries, as we document around the world that have not had a single vaccine. They just can't get access. It's a gap in terms of getting to that vaccine. We're certainly seeing that play out around the world. Writing about vaccine inequality and his weekly column, Bloomberg New Economy editorial director Andy Brown, Andy with us on the phone in New York City at our bureau

here in New York City. I should say so Andy COmON in on this. This was something Joseph Stieglitz and about Laurie, very passionate about a lot of other people, and you just put it so eloquently in your weekly column um tell us about this. Yeah, well, the world the head of the World Health Organization described this vaccine inequity as a catastrophic moral failure, and not just that

it makes absolutely no economic sense at all. Um. The International Chamber of columns to the study which showed that, um, that that vaccine national and basically rich countries hogging all the vaccines is going to cost the global economy something like nine point two trillion dollars, of which half the

is going to be borne by by rich country. They lose because you know, they emerging markets that are grappling with the virus on buying their advanced manufactually products like planes and cars, but also they can't supply manufacturing parts. And the crazy thing here is that funding these multilateral efforts to vaccinate emerging economies is going to cost a couple of billion bucks, right, so you know, overall in

the big picture, a drop in the bucket. Hey, Andy, I'm talk a little bit about what what this bill gates quote that you included quote, the the self interested thing and the altruistic thing making sure core nations of access to vaccines are one and the same. Why do we have so much trouble seeing that it's it's it's a really good question, you know. I mean, of course,

governments everywhere have an obligation to look after their own people. Um, but you know, you've got you We've got to the situation now where in the US and large parts of Europe, we're well on our way now to hurt immunity, which is generally calculated as around about seventy percent of the population with some kind of of immunity at best. At the end of this year, we're looking at no more than emerging economies having inoculated no more than about twenty

one quarter of their population. And as Joe Stiglets you just heard him say, you know, there's a whole bunch of poor countries U a couple of dozen of them where they haven't even gotten started, you know, and I mean you you think of about this. There's there's a stockpile right now in the US of twenty millions of doses of astra zeneca. Apparently it's not even going to factor into Joe Biden's or the Biden Administration's vaccine roll out.

You know, twenty million vaccines could could could vaccinate the whole of Cameroon, you know, or angle. I mean, it just it which seemed to me to be such an easy win for advancing, particularly the United States right now, to just lead a global campaign to inoculate the world. I mean, of course it would be the morally the right thing to do. Um And you know, as they say, I mean, it's just a no brain from from an

economic perspective. Well, you know, and in reading your column, Andy, the thing is right if you don't have a moral compass and you don't realize that it's the right thing to do to take care of the developing world, you know,

just from an economic sense. And you mentioned this stat at the top of our segment here that you say that the Chamber of Commerce, the International Chamber of Congress, concluding an unequal allocation of injections vaccine injections could deprive the world economy of as much as nine point two trillion dollars. So even if you don't think it's the right thing to do, you've got to at some point logically understand that there is a huge economic cost, continued

cost if we don't get this right. Yeah, and then the other tragedy is, you know, with this this scare of a blood blood clock arising from Astras Naca R Now J and J. You know, in America, it's basically a bit of a speed bump, right, I mean, J and J is about five percent, I think of all the vaccines that are being sort of pushed into arms around the country. But this, this, this is in Africa. The news that that J and J was being suspended

in the US was absolutely devastating. I mean, you know, there's already a huge amount of vaccine hesitancy in Africa for all kinds of complicated reasons. You know, partly because a lot of people in Africa don't believe the Western pharmaceutical companies have their own best interests in hot at hot and you know, in country after country you're seeing that this news is now sort of health authority is

a persuading population's got to get vaccinated. And this is just set these efforts all the way back to the square one. So, Andy, how do you envision this ending. Do we get to a point where the entire world gets inoculated and in a reasonable time frame, or or do we have pocket of areas of the of the world, like the United States that are somewhat vaccinated, even those you point out we live in a world with chorus

borders and that kind of doesn't really matter. Well, I hope not, because, um, you know, the old cliche, until everybody is safe, nobody is safe. And and the you know, there's a very realistic scenario where they do emerging economies don't get back to the eightage, you're going to start to get of course, that gives that office an opportunity

for variants to take hold, um, to overwhelm the existing vaccines. Um, you know, and then you see that, you see, you'll see the pandemic roaring back, and of course then we'll be back again in another economic crisis. I mean, hence Bill Gates is contention that the self interested thing and

the altruistic thing one and the same. Yeah, And you know, listen, we have talked so much about the importance of Astra Zeneca's vaccine, Jay and Jay's vaccine and really being able to inoculate the world, and that has definitely been a major major setback. Andy, Thank you so much, uh Andy Brown, he's editorial director of Bloomberg New Economy. On the phone in our New York City bureau. But this is gonna

be a big thing. I mean, jose Stieglitz and many others, as Andy referenced, have talked about the importance that the virus knows no borders, and if we don't take care of the world at large, that's going to be a problem, and it's going to make COVID stay with us much longer. Not only will it make COVID stay with us, a lot more lives will be lost, which is incredibly unfortunate. And what we see also is this uneven recovery around the world where we won't get fully back to normal.

If there are areas of the world where there could be uh, mute mutations forming right right, exactly, all right, well, certainly something will continue. Watch check out Andy's columns and check out at new Econ Forum. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser from Bloomberg Radio, one of the

high flyers. Certainly of different tone this year, uh and in particular today down about seven, we're talking about Peloton, the stock selling of tim after US regulators warn consumers to stop using the exercise equipment maker's tread plus machine if they are young, children, are pets at home. I mean. Ben Side is technology and media analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence and joins us on the phone from New York City.

I mean, thanks for joining us about this, Um, you have a reaction to this latest news from Peloton, essentially saying, um that the regulator warning on the tread plus that's this machine that Carol was talking about, may not actually hurt the company's growth. Why not? Thanks for having me, Yes, So, I mean when we look at the you know, the hardware mix that Peloton have, over ninety percent of sales are still the bike, not so much the treadmill or

the treadmill plus. So in the very new term, it doesn't look to us like this will have an impact. But on the other side, when we uh, you know, look at dellegation standpoint, our allegation analyst Holy Film actually put on this morning discussing how an involuntary recall um for the treade Plass product is unlikely. So the really litters you know, at this point of time, unlikely for them to force polot On to stop, you know, sending this products. So that's why we think for the new

term the impact could be minimal. What about though, on the brand, how much of this is important in terms of how they react to this particular thing. Uh, in this particular problem or potential problem. It's obviously a problem if it's happening, right, But I do wonder how the company addresses it, how that could ultimately affect their their

future consumer base or future growth. Absolute that's a question because their focus for this year was also the treadmill, because when you look at the marketing spending the last few years was mostly for the bike, but they discussed, you know, on their earning goals how the treadmill. They're going to shift a lot of the marketing to the treadmill to you know, to do stuss for the product. And they also have um, the new lower price treadmill

coming up in May. So yes, I agree that for the image of the brand, there could be an impact if this incidents keep happening and more regular to uh, you know join and you know a warrant about the product.

But on the other hand, what the company is doing to answer the second part of your question, uh, you know, the announced they're also updating their software to make it a little bit harder for anyone who's not supposed to use the treadmill to use it from it basically either have a pass code or something for that sort, you know, to to to improve safety for the product. Do you see that being the solution here? Is it as simple

as that? Is it an update to the harderware or is this the type of thing that the company get to the point where they are actually asking people to return this piece of equipment which is incredibly healty. Yes, I mean it's it's it's still unclear at this stage because we still are not clear on you know, is this a peloton specific issue or is this you know, an overall treadmill because as you know, treadmit a dangerous

for children and impacts. So it's not something that I think, in opinion specific, But if the regulators find that, if there is something in the hardware, then make it specific. Yes, it could be a risk, but that's your question about is this enough from the software standpoint? Um, again, if it's overall a treadmill risk, I don't, I don't. I think yes, this is could be enough. But if more concerns give happening in the future, Um, I don't know.

If I re call is even a possibility and the company says then not we're calling or stopping self for the product, well, you know, I mean I mean, like one thing I thought was interesting. I have a Peloton bike and you've got to log in, And of course a bike is not a treadmill. There are two different things. But I'm trying to understand. I think if you have everything turned off, unless you have a kid logging in, like,

you can't necessarily get things going. Again, I don't have the treadmill, so I don't know logistically if you can just hit a power on button, uh and it's on, or if you just unplug it when you're done, do you kind of do away with the problem. I mean, treadmills have been around for a long time. Has this been a chronic consumer problem or consumer you know, I'm thinking of consumer reports. Have they reported on things like this in the past with other treadmills, or like I said,

is there something Peloton specific? Yeah, I mean so for the first part of the question, I think yes, that's what the regreators are also suggesting, you know, just unplug it. We're having a different room. That stopped the problem, I mean obviously, but you know there is no pass code um there. You still have to log you know, the logan is automatic if you have your passports there. I would as soon because I have had a bike there also, so I remember it was just you know, just like

one batman shrying up. But maybe people live it on and they go and come back. That's the risk. But but you know, I agree with that your unplug it or have more security measures that could be enough. We're not sure the second part of your question for the recalls, Uh, the note was put up. But again our relegation analysts that there were eighty recalls since two thousand about the accessory equipment. So they are relatively rare in this industry.

And so you know, unless we see significant amount of this incident happened from Peloton specific, um, it just it doesn't do like it's something um that happens often. I mean very briefly, we only have fifteen seconds left. Other types of hardware that you expect Peloton has in its pipeline right now. Strength their focus is strength. When we look at stront very quickly, two percent of their work else work strength now it's thirteen percent, uh, lots of

last year and growing. So that is you know, that is their focus. So that's like a tonal type of machine tonal or like maybe even a roller at high intensity or anything focused instrument. Listen, that's it. They're finding different revenue streams. That's pretty pretty remarkable that they pivoted off the bike into other things. Um, I mean, thank you so much. A man Ben Side. He's Bloomberg Intelligence technology analysts joining us on the phone in New York Cities.

We mentioned Peloton chairs just down about seven point two percent as we speak. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week and this this Boomberg Radio road morow the journal. Yeah, but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no, no no job all right, please, I'll do the right ravels. I want to drive all just drive the question try. This is the Drive to the Globe Commune. Thanks, we'll drying

us Dawn on Bloomberg Radio. A right, just about eleven minutes uh left in today's trading session, getting ready to wrap up the Monday trade. Our guest in the Drive to the closes, Vance Howard back with us portfolio manager and CEO at Howard Capital Management, based in Georgia. And that's where we find in Roswell, Georgia to be exact, three billion in assets under management. Vans. Nice to have you back here on Bloomberg Radio. On Bloomberg Business Week.

When you look at the markets, you think they're a bit overbought. However bought and what does that mean in terms of a potential pullback? Well, when we say over bought here, let's let's be real clear. On a very very short term basis, meaning maybe one to two weeks, we do not see this market turning over at all. And you know, our proprietary indicated the h C on biblines pausitive. So any pullback we see as a buying opportunity, but on a technical basis, just for a one or two.

So you're all bullish. We're not only bullish, we're real bullish. We have been since the second week of April last year. So what derails this politionist Because we've spent a lot of time talking today about the unequal distribution of the vaccine and how just because the pandemic ends in the United States doesn't mean that it's necessarily ending around the world. And my concern they're apart from loss of life, is

of course economic activity. And so Timmy that you brought that up to him, because Jess crossing the Bloomberg terminal of the State Department to caution against travel to about eight percent of countries evants. As to mention, I mean a reminder that globally we're still in a tough place. Globally we are, but you know, the you know, the vaccine is getting distributed very very very well in the United States. And by the way, that's a big testament

of corporate America. They've been a big catalyst behind that. I think it's just been wonderful how fast they got the vaccine out and how fast are getting it into people. I've already had one shot. I'll be getting us next one, the next shot, next week. But you know, and you see France over there is really struggling up. I don't think that the corporate America has been quite as buttoned up for as strong as ours has, and I think that's why they've only got three or four percent of

their people being vaccinated. So, you know, the US just heads and tails above most other places. But that creates some risks, and that creates some you know, and what the CFO would say, tail winds, right, especially when it comes to the way that the CFOs are thinking about the economy. Because this is a global economy that we live in, it doesn't matter if we're vaccinated here in the US, if other countries aren't, they're not going to reopen.

And if our suppliers in the developing world can't provide components that we need for production, it just slows everybody down. Where there's no doubt it's going to be a slowdown. But we're opening up pretty quick even around the world. I think things are getting better, They're not getting worse. So you know, in net net, I think it's a positive. And let's let's face it, between China and the US, we're the two biggest economies out there, and it looks

like China has opened up pretty good too. I work at Third GDP. I mean it was through the roof, so you so you're not worried at all. You know, even though we did a story about global you know, COVID cases coming up, I mean you think the US alone, and I know you also talked about China specifically too, although I think China has had some trouble with vaccine rollout as well. Um, you know, you're not worried. If China and the US are going you think everything's going

to be fine. I think we're gonna work through it at a pretty good pace. I mean, do we have bumps in the road. Yes, But no matter whether we have a pandemic or not, there's always bumps in the road. There's always something you know, around the world that we can point a finger two and said, oh, that's the

reason the market. But there's bumps. And then there's another wave of COVID that causes shutdowns, that that could that could be a concern, but that's still it's not to the point now i'd be too concerned about another way because even with the way, if we do have another wave, I don't think it's going to be as such a shock factor as the second wave was, and I think

that was a pretty big one. But yeah, we're bullish and I would be buying into this, and I think six months, twelve months, eighteen months, I think you'd be happy you did. Really, So what I mean, what are your what are your own targets for the end of the year. Well, we don't have any targets them, to be quite candid, but we do run a proprietary indicated

the h c M biline is mathematically driven. It's all quantitaty will be driven and I can tell you right now, strong as the h C on Biline is going back over forty years. You got an eighty two percent chance the market is going to be higher. So we know what the odds are you at a two percent chance you take that trade? So I'm gonna ask a question. I bet I know the answer. Tesla down four percent today? You like this name? Are you buying on this dip? Would we we bought a whole bunch of Tesla about

I guess four weeks ago. You know, I think we're rough about on that trade. We started buying into Tesla back then. You know, again, ask yourself twelve twenty four months from now, do you think Tesla is going to be higher? I think it is. I don't know. I mean, there's a lot more new entrants when it comes to

the e V market. We've done story after story every day that this year one is going to be whether it's Volkswagen with her, it's Mercedes, whether it's them, whether you know, you talked about it even you know, all along kind of the cost structure of cars. You see a lot new entries into the marketplace. You don't think that's going to give Tesla run for their money. It could,

It very well could. But look at this though, You're you're buying one of the products that that's not that's a big part of Tesla unless a guy called Elon Musk. I mean, the guy made a billion bucks with Bitcoin. With Tesla, I mean, this guy is not sitting on his hands. He's probably one of the most brilliant innovators we have since Edison so and and Steve Jobs. So I mean you're also you're you're putting your money behind him. And I tell you, the guy's a young guy's a

smart guy. I mean, think about what this guy can come up with next prod or twenty four months. Does it concern just today's news concern you at all? No, it doesn't concern me. I mean, this guy has already got a big foothold in the marketplace. He's he's going to drive traffic to Tesla. He's gonna come up with something probably pretty interesting and innovative and probably in the near term. Right. But just the fact that the the idea that it could damage the brand, You're not concerned

about that? No, I'm not. I'm not concerned about that. Uh. Any other names that you're finding interesting, like we're gonna have United after the closing Bell today. We had Delta last week. I mean, listen, you know this is going to be potentially one of the big recovery stories. And we know this is a group that just got decimated. You know, all of their business are of their business shutdown in What do you make of maybe the air lines? Is that an area where you would commit some new

money or have they had their bounce back already? No? No, no, I think they're gonna move higher right. Like I said, we're bullish. We think things are going to open up. We're not afraid of the world right now. You know, we're launching a lot of great stocks that have been basing, Like look at Amazon. Amazon has been basing for nine much and it's on the It's just very very close to having a fifty two week breakout, which is always a positive thing. You know, Microsoft just broke out to

a fifty two week Hi. I mean, you're getting a lot of stocks that are starting to break out. That's telling you one thing. You don't trade with emotion. You have to trade math like we do. So sit around and worry about about the virus all day. You I don't know what's gonna happen. Nobody does, but I can tell you the odds are very very high mathematically from the HC M Biloon, this market is going higher. Well, there it is. You are definitely bullish. Okay, So I've

asked you about if the virus could derail this. Is there anything else that you think could derail this? Because there's corporate taxes potentially that could go higher. We didn't see the market moves significantly on that news a few weeks ago, which leads me to believe that either A they don't think investors don't necessarily think it's gonna happen, or be Um, it won't affect the company's bottom lines and earning that much. Where do you falling when it

comes to corporate taxes? Something to be concerned about? But yeah, it is, it is. There's two things that concern us now. These are things that could drill is higher taxes and and and dramatically more regulation. Those are the two factors They could fill a monkey wrench in this whole process. Um, But what we're getting is a lot of talk out

of Washington. I don't know how much of this is gonna come reality because there's a point out there that you gotta step back as a legislature and say, man if I crushed the economy and probably not gonna keep my job and get reelected, So they're gonna have to kind of walk a tip rope and what do you do with regulation and taxes to try to stay, you know, keep between the lines and not swerve off and wreck. Hey, there's a lot of E t F that you like,

just got about seconds left here. What's the play here for the E d F world for you? You know, I was on CNBC the other day and we're talking about, Oh my god, you're done. I can't even believe you did that. Really, I didn't hear him that. I didn't hear what you said. Sorry, we had a technically you were doing so well and then ah, well whatever, what you know. We started to find d v Y back in the first week or the first week of April

of last year. It's been a great trade. But I was asked the question though by another being interviewed, like, so, well, don't you think it's topic You don't you think it's too hot? You know, new has become new, has become new, hows become new highes. That's how things double. So nothing can double unlessen to it and knew how the whole way. Yep. So when you look at the epicenter stocks with vv why holds a whole bunch of high dividend epicenter stocks.

There's just so many things that are working right now. All Right, We're gonna leave it on that note. Vans Howard, thank you so much, Chief executive Officer, Portfolio manager Howard Capital Management, three billion in assets under management. A definite bull there, and we still like him even though he mentioned a competitor. I mean, we like our competitors. I know a lot of people there, a lot of my friends are there, but still know your audience. Thanks for

listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube. Sarah to Bloomberg Global News