Tesla Investor Day Falls Short of Specifics

Austin hosted its investor day. Kind of a dud and bummer if you base it on how shares of Tesla trading down today looking to shave some fifty billion off its market cap. Not a dud though, Elon's comments when it comes to rare earths, listen up, we need to make just a very tryant amount of hannode cathode lithium. Looking my rockside commonant, it's really the refining capacity that is the biggest choke point. Yeah, so that's why we're

building a Lethian refinery and Corpus Christie. All right, you were just hearing from Elon Musk at his investor day in Austin yesterday. Actually, I'm sorry. Our next guest is with us in Austin. We've got Bloombergs Sean o'caine. He was at Tesla's investor day. He's our EV reporter joining us from Zoom in Austin, Texas. Sean, great to speak with you. Tell us your impressions. How the meeting go well? First,

actually I was watching just like everybody else online. There's there's no way Tesla's letting us in to something like that, unfortunately these days. But yeah, it was meandering. I think one of the things that we appreciated from the reporting side of things, and I think even some of the analysts appreciate it as well, was just seeing a very deep roster of Tesla executives and managers and employees who

were on stage speaking and also taking questions. At the end, we got some face time with Tom Jou, who is essentially arguably the number two at Tesla right now, who was must brought him over late last year from helping run Tesla China to be able to sort of straighten out some of the early problems they've had at the factory here in Austin. So seeing all of that was really helpful, and hearing some new details about some of the things that they're working on was also exciting to

some of the faithful. But yeah, we didn't get as much explicit information about new products that I think some people were expecting heading into the event, which is why I think we're seeing a little bit of a dip in the price today. Was there anything that he didn't say, what was missing that you felt was critical that he left out? I mean, the big thing is really this

next gen vehicle platform. I mean, it was something that he explicitly teased would be discussed on the most recent elearnings call, and we got bits and pieces about their strategy, how they're approaching building it. We learned that primarily it will be built at the new factory in Mexico that was announced earlier this week by AMLO and confirmed by Musk last night. All the way in the back end of the event during the Q and A session, So

we learned a little bit about it. We understand sort of how they're thinking about making it more efficiently, making it so that more employees can work on it at a time versus their cars now. But we didn't see what it looks like we didn't really get a price tag or a price range, and they have talked about being able to use that new platform to power different types of vehicles, but they were a little fuzzy on

what those types of vehicles would be. And there's also not a lot of headroom for that to begin with, because Musk said last night that he doesn't think they're going to ever make more than ten different vehicles at all, and they already have about seven either on the road or in the pipeline that we know of. So that was I think the biggest thing that we were a lot of people were looking for and didn't really get. I don't even know where to begin or think about it.

I mean, it's kind of wild. I feel like it's pure Elon. But you know, the thing, what he said about the rare earth minerals, that's a big deal, Sean, because there is a huge narrative, huge reporting space at Bloomberg and otherwise, you know, watching this amid the kind of China US tensions and you know the world competing for all of these minerals. I mean, is he upending evs and batteries? I mean, I think there's a lane for that for sure. I think they're his hesitants to

get into mining full bore. You know, pun not intended probably means that that's not necessarily what's going to happen in the near term. I mean, he once again stressed this call of getting any other entrepreneurs, you know, out

in the world involved in this sort of process. And you know, he thinks that, you know, even though Tesla's obviously now working on its own lithium refinery here in Texas, he thinks that that's not going to be enough, and there needs to be a lot more people doing that kind of material refining of the raw material which is in abundance and really, you know, sort of at the moment and in the near term doesn't really look like the supply of that is going to be a constrain.

So he really thinks that refining it is going to be the constraint, which we heard in the quote. And so you know, if they were really reaching their hands down deep all the way to the bottom of the supply chain and being the ones that themselves were pulling materials out of the ground, maybe that would be a little bit different. We know that something they've entertained just a couple of weeks ago we reported that they have been considering buying sigma lithium, which is a minor here

in North America. They've had talks with Glencore in the past. I think that was reported last year or the year before, So it's something that's on their mind and something he's talked about on earning skulls. But it's not quite as

full bars as it might seem. That it was interesting to hear them confirmed that they actually broke around on the site in Corpus Christophers Refinery because up until literally yesterday, I had local officials down there telling me they haven't heard a peep from them in the last couple of months and they were unsure what was actually going on. All right, John, I'm going to do a little rapid fire with you and then we can kind of build some stuff out because I feel like with Ellen, there's

always so many different moving parts. Okay, so roadster just quickly, did we get anything. No, we didn't really hear anything about that, So not really sure what the status of that is at the moment. What about the truck, the which one the cyber truck or the semi cyber truck. We are continuing a pace at trying to get the first few units built here in Texas later this year, but not until next year will we see any sort of real volume production site. You know. That's about all

we got it updated on last night. Twitter the company the distraction Succession, So I'm going to run Twitter while Elan does other stuff. Anything surprisingly little about Twitter last night,

because Musk does love a tangent. Although I do think that, you know, Succession was maybe winked at a little bit by having Tom Ju speak and having all these other people up there, if not to say here's who's going to take over the company if I decide to leave, like I've teased in the past, but to say, you know, look at this wealth of people that we have working, these bright minds that we have working on this company, running this company, so that you know, if I do

go off and get distracted by something else and buy some other company that takes up all my time and money, the company's in good hands. All right. One more, and then Maddie, it's yours Ai, because my understanding is that I forget there was a column or something I've read and it was like, wait, you know, don't worry. Ellen's kind of done with Twitter. The shiny new thing is now AI and he's got his own little group working

on it. Did any of that come up, not specifically about that report, but you know, Tesla is working very hard and spending a lot of resources on developing artificial intelligence in the sense that they're using neural networks to train their software that you know, handles all their driver assistance features. Also in the Tesla robot, which we got a glimpse of again yesterday. Is still not a lot

of detail about that. So they are moving forward pretty fast on some of those some of that, but we it was honestly a little bit less of a feature of last night's presentation than I expected to hear. I was really excited, but I'm so sorry by the potential cost reduction on cars. I think fifty percent targeting a fifty percent cost reduction. Can you talk a little bit

about the impetus for that. Yeah, it's interesting. I think one of the funny things about it, and maybe this is factoring into the market reaction, is that last night's event was less about flash and promises and more about fundamentals. And when's the last time that we've heard, you know, an event from teslad be more about fundamentals than and

promises and big ideas. Yeah, the goal with this next generation vehicle platform, based on all the learnings that Tesla's done over you know, popularizing the model Y and building it out at huge volumes at least for them, is going to be able to let them get yeah, fifty percent cost reduction upfront as far as what it's going to cost him to build that vehicle, which you know is why people are so excited about it because it means that they could substantially lower the price of whatever

vehicle they build or vehicles they build out of it. And they spent a lot of a lot of time talking about how they reached some of those cost reductions,

how they've reduced their footprint and become more efficient. Um, you know, the story from the beginning, since must got involved with Tesla fifteen plus years ago, has been vertical integration, and so this was really a celebration of that strategy paying off for them, one that you know has sort of other companies and other startups in this space have tried to replicate, you know, are finding out how difficult

it is. Rivan's the most recent example reporting sort of lackluster earnings earlier this week and burning tons of cash, still trying to do the same kinds of things. Yeah, Sean, really really quickly, Ross Scarber, he was there, Yes, he's he you know, he's he's sort of thrown up his hands and surrendered his board bid, but he was there. He seems to be one of the ones who was most happy about the presentation and the things that Tesla discussed. And you know, we'll see where he goes from here.

If I don't know, I don't know what kind of role he's going to be playing going forward, but he's certainly trying to remain one of the latter voices on the sidelines, cheering this company on. Well, he's going to join us actually tomorrow too, So you know, maybe we'll pick your brain see what you're interested in from Ross Gerbern. See see how happy is post that meeting and changes perhaps and not looking for that board seat anymore. So okay,

and you're incredible. Evie Reporter up Bloomberg News via zoom in Austin. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekdays from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio. The Bloomberg Business app band you too. You can also listen live to our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg E Love and Dirty. We

gotta get to my next joy. It's a most read story on the Bloomberg and I understand why because I mean, Carol, if you could take a private jet anywhere all the time, would you do it? Yes? Yes? You had me at Hello Yes, yes, right like I don't care if it's one minute all I would do it. I would do it all the time. And that's exactly what Elon Musk is doing. We were just talking about him. He's got Tesla, he's got Twitter, he's got the challenges of being the

richest man in the world. That busy schedule requires a lot of private jet time. So here with more on this wild story. It's very interactive, so you really should check it out online on the Bloomberg terminal. We've got Bloomberg News Wealth Team reporters Sophie Alexander. She's one of the three writers on this story. Sophie, thank you so much for chatting with us about this. Did this story come about because of the college kid who was tweeting

about Elon's flights or did it come about with something else? Yeah, I mean, and this is one that we've been wanting to do for a while, just because of the attention that Elon's flights have gone. And I got to say that, you know, Jack Tweeeney's work in his Twitter accounts definitely brought more attention to it. And you know, I think also just the fact that Ulon was so bothered by it, it made us think, Okay, well maybe let's take it, keep it. Look here, do you just want to poke

the bear? Right? Is that what's going on, Sophie? Yeah, I mean I think everyone's just curious, and you know, Jack's done a great job of cataloging where this jet has been going, and I think we just wanted to take a step back and look at what that actually means over the course of the year. Did you talk to him for the story at all or were you really just like, yeah, we're doing our own reporting, but thanks for the idea. So yeah, we've talked to Jack before.

I mean, he's been doing this as a sort of side project while he's in college. But our team, our data team scraped the our data from ADBs exchange, our ADSP Exchange, excuse me, which is where Jack also gets his data. So, yeah, you know what's interesting, You know, Sophie, we talk so much, and we just talked with our own Sean o'caine about the investor meeting at Tesla yesterday.

Elon is someone who has a lot on his plate and seems to you know, excel by having a lot, whether it's Solar, whether it's the Boring Company, whether it's Ai, whether it's Tessa, whether it's you know, Rockets and you know SpaceX. Having said that, the ability to have a private jet and bop around the world and have that at your beck and call kind of makes it possible. And so tell us what you guys learned in putting this together and what he's been doing. Yeah, and I

should add that this is just Elon's personal jet. This isn't a SpaceX jet or the Tesla jet that by the company. But yeah, I mean, this man is moving around a lot, and I think something that's been really interesting to see in the data is just like how much more he's flying after he's acquiring Twitter, especially of course to the Bay Area that really shot up after that, and it really just off shows the tool it takes to run five companies. I'll tell you what it takes.

It takes Musk's jet flying around the Earth twelve point four times last year. I was just gonna say it, like, pick your data point, and again, you really need to experience this story on the terminal because Sophie, you guys did just such a cool job visualizing this. Sophie, what's your favorite data point here about about the flights that this man is taking. I think it's kind of fun. This is less of a data point, but I think it's kind of fun to see where he's going and

you can sort of math along. You know, we don't know when he's in the jet or not, but because he tweets so much, we sort of do, you know, like so we have this great globe graphics so you can see, you know, in January he's in Hawaii on Larry Ellison's Island, then he's in April, and April he's in Berlin, and then later he's in Vancouver for a TED event, and then he's in Stout Polo and then in Rome, and then later in the year he's at

the World Cup. So yeah, that I think that was the most fun to that's the other thing, that's so cool that you have the tweets imbedded in the story next to the locations. Well, it's just a reminder, right of the amount of data. I mean, someone who knows so much about data and the usage of it. But you think about all the information that's out there that enables you guys to I would say fairly easily have the data to put something like this together. That's right.

Ul Must doesn't engage with reporters all that much, but we all know that he does engage with Twitter a lot. Yeah. I love too that you compare him to the other billionaires flying private jets. Must comes in at the top with one hundred and seventy one flights, Zucks got one hundred and fifteen, page at eighty five, and Ellison at eighty two. It's just it's so it's I think that's really cool that you you mapped all of that out. But of course, the carbon footprint here is a really

big deal. Can you talk a little bit about the impact that his flights are causing. Sure? Yeah, that's that's two thundred and twelve metric tons of greenhouse gas roughly emitted in twenty twenty two from you know that personal jet alone, and so you know when you when you hear you know, the vague statistic or the vague fact that rich people are the one percent are the biggest emitters of these greenhouse gases compared to regular folks. You know,

this is a good example of that. You know, that is one hundred and forty times more than the average Americans carbon footprint. And you know, we decided to compare it to Tesla's because of course, you know Musk, and so to make that up, a Tesla Model three would have to replace an average premium just combustion car for seven million miles to make that up. Some perspective for you. Hey, um, the title on the story is Elon Musk is so busy as private jet is taking thirteen minutes flight? So

what is that thirteen minute flight? That's a good question. We're not totally sure what's going on there, but there are a handful of these fifteen minute flights. You know that they're just like either circling or going from like Hawthorne to Long Beach, which was like, you know, fifteen minutes away and there. It is just like interesting to

go through all this data. You're seeing all different sorts of weird stuff like that, like you know, a trip from northern California and then circling around Las Vegas and then just going back to California, so as I think he was just like going up to see the lights. But these are the kinds of things that we're not going to have that much insight into us to like

why that those things are happening. I think I remember our Twitter friend, the college student, tweeting that this out when it was happening, and a lot of the response was that maybe it was like a fueling thing, or it had to do with the staffing on the airplanes. I know you just explained very well that we're not going to know the reason, But does that seem plausible to you at all? Did that come up at all in your reporting? Yeah, totally possible that these could just

be routine checks. There was also a period during the year where the plane was grounded for a while, and again Sweenie speculated that that was probably for some routine maintenance. But yeah, it's possible that it's all routine. It's possible that he's also just going up for a joy ride. Sophie. You know, you are a wealth team Reporter and Elon Musk recently getting back the title of the world's richest person. And I do think about, you know, we track so

much when it comes to Elon and Tesla. I think about how we used to track, um, you know, when you would say some things and then when they came true. I mean, it's just we're obsessed with him. What is it that you think for someone who, like yourself, you know, tracks the world's rich people, what is it about Elon in particular that we are just also fascinated with? I mean, he is he makes himself such a public figure by

nature of tweeting and by his activities. He's a total goofball in a lot of ways, and I think people, well, there's a total cultural personality there. There's a lot of Musk supporters, of course on Twitter, who will come to defend him at an instant. I think a lot of it has to do with the products that he's producing with Tesla and SpaceX. But it's also just like a remarkable thing for one individual to say, you know what, I'm going to buy this social media company and then

actually follow through on it. I mean, we live in the capitalist society. Money is power, and this man has a lot of money, Sophie, really quickly, we've got thirty seconds left. What do you think is the biggest risk factor for Elon Musk potentially dropping off that highest spot of his on the rich list. I mean, I think everyone's watching this investor day. It's all about Tesla for Elon and for as well. Yeah, and so far, you know,

what are we talking about? Fifty billion dollars being shaved off the market cap of Tesla because a little bit of a dad coming off that investor meeting yesterday. Hey, Sophie, thank you so much. Sophie Alexander, Wealth team reporter at Bloomberg News, joining on the phone in New York City. As Maddie said, this is a story to really be experienced online or on the Bloomberg because it's interactive. You play around with it and there's lots of fun and

interesting data points. And I'm sure Elon is just loving it that we're like obsessed with his flights. I mean,

she said it so well. He got upset about people talking about his flights, and that gave us a clue, Yeah, what we should cover and to be fair like security issues that because right now I think there's a well transit the information you're listening to The Bloomberg Business Week podcast got us Live weekdays from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business app band you Doo. You can also listen live to our flagship New York station,

Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg e Love and thirty. This next story has it all for US celebrities, fugitives, and even the Fuji's. On that last point, Pras Michelle, you might remember him as a Grammy Award winning rapper, longtime member of Fuji's. What you may not know is his role in a high stakes negotiation between the US and China. Carrol. That's for sure. It is the cover story of the

new issue of Bloomberg Business Week. It is mind blowing by the new issue out on newstands, now online at Bloomberg dot com, slash business Week on the Bloomberg terminals. So let's get to it with Bloomberg News Investigations reporter Anthony Cormier. He joins us here in our Bloomberg Interactive broker's studio. So I feel like Anthony that this story the more it gets told, the more riveting and the more cinematic it gets, so tell us about the member

of the Fuji's and the connection with one MDB. Right, So, you know, pros Michelle is one of the founding members of the Fuji's, the nineties winning, nineties Grammy winning a rap act and he meant an unassuming, baby faced Malaysian businessman in two thousand and six at a nightclub and his life changed pretty dramatically after that. That Malaysian man was Jolo, the accused financier who who's facing very serious

charges of embezzling from a Malaysian sovereign fund. And we picked this story up after you know, Joelo has been charged with multiple offenses, he's at least been been accused of bazzling money, and he asks for a favor from his dear friend Praz Michelle. So many different places to go on this one, and I feel like you got to love a story that is not only being told by us and all the esteemed business outlets out there, but it's also being told by page six. So let's

go to it. First of all, how did these two come together and how did Praz get so intertwined? Right? Well, Praz had a process, a connector he's the kind of guy who has friends in business and in politics and in entertainment, and he you know, he meets Jolo at a party and they slowly become friends and they begin to explore these sort of business opportunities together. And Joe found that Praz had connections to the Obama White House and what they have been accused of is using straw

donors to donate to Obama's twenty twelve election campaign. Many years go by, and Proz is essentially excuse me. Joe is essentially facing a slew of charges forfeit complaints and he needs some help some representation. Turns to his dear friend Pras and he says, listen, do you have any help? How can you connect me with a lawyer with representation so I can you know, make this thing go away? And that begins the sort of you know, saga of

how Proz assembles a team. He goes to an old friend who connects him with a gentleman called Elliott Broidy, who is a Republican fundraiser from California, and they put together this plan where they intend to influence the new and perhaps chaotic Trump administration. Right they're hoping that they can they can get an end there, and then things

take a turn. They go and they meet with and they meet with Joe, and you know, at this meeting they're introduced to a gentleman called Sun le Jeun, who is the Vice Minister of Public Secure Pity for the People's Republic of China, and they have a big question. They want to see if the Chinese can get back a critic who's living in the US overlooking Central Park.

And this gentleman's called Guo Wangli and he's begun to make all of these absurd allegations about the PRC, and the Chinese want him back, and they say to Pras and his group of friends, can you get him back? And uh, you know that that leads again to very unusual set of circumstance. Well then what does PROS do after that? But you know there's a number of things that happened between there. But one night Pros is sleeping and the Chinese, including suddenly Sun, they're in the United States.

They're trying to meet with top members of the White House with the administration, and they can't get anywhere. They the meeting doesn't happen, and so they phone pros basically and say get to the Four Seasons on fifty seven one, right across from our building. Get here now, and you know he arrives. There's this very cloak dagger scene where he's told to exit the hotel and circle it twice to make sure I'm not being tailed in his bag, his phone's going a bag and he's alone in a

room with two chairs. He doesn't have any idea what's going on, and he's basically like, oh my gosh, they really they can't kill me in the Four Seasons. So let's bring in the editor of Business Week, Joe whatever, Joel. I mean, I feel like we could just listen to Anthony go on and on about this because and we will, because who cares about me right now? The quote, the quote that you hit in the story was they can't kill me in the Four Seasons. Give me a T shirt?

Yeah exactly, Yeah, when you get there, Yeah yeah, I'll go ahead and keep reading. And the story. There's so many dimensions of the story and it just keeps you going until the end and then you're like, wow, I can't wait to watch the movie about this. But so the next turn in this story is basically going to be when the prose goes to trial. Right, So, what are the charges against him that the US is bringing

because Washington. Yeah, yeah, he faces campaign finance allegations. He faces violating what's called the Foreign ageins Registration Act, essentially acting on behalf of a foreign government. He faces some very very serious offenses. And many of the people who were also charged in this case, they've already for lack of a word, they flipped. They're cooperating with US government now against prost protestincts. He says he's innocent, says, you know, I'm not going to accept a plead to a charge

I didn't commit. He plans to fight it, and uh, you know, as far as we can tell, he's going

to launch a pretty vigorous offense defense. You know, I have to say, we've been looking forward to talking to you, and Joel has been like kind of teeing us up and just giving us little nuggets because part of this coverage, there's your great story, the three of you, this reporting, but there's also this incredible sidebar that talks about I said page six, right, this is a story that we've reported on all the financial journalists, but also page six

because of Leonardo DiCaprio and Kim Kardashian. So tell us about that part. So you know, as the agents are as the FBI agents are pursuing Jolo, they want to find out where his money went, what he was up to, and they knew that he partied all of the time with all kinds of a list celebrities. Leonardo DiCaprio, Las Vegas, with Kim Kardashian, the record producer Swizz Beats. He gave

them extraordinary gifts. He had financed the Wolf of Wall Street for Leonardo di Caprio, And so they begin to squeeze these celebrities and it's a really rarely get a look at the way the FBI treats a list celebrities. And these documents that are reporting shows how serious they took these these cases. And they brought you know, in fact, Leo in his case, they brought him, they sat him down for this this long and sort of invasive interview.

They brought him back before grand jury. They went through his emails, his BlackBerry men got grilled, held ell dog. He did rectually, he did, you know, he he had quite a lot that he did remember. And then if you read the report from the FBI. There's quite a lot of documents he didn't remember either, and you know, he had a pretty long and extensive history was showing, you know, while we know the parties, I think that's been pretty widely reported. What no one has known is

how close they became. Their relationship went beyond this sort of you'll finance my film and you'll come into my yacht to let's build a billion dollar movie fund. Let's build an eco resort in an on an island. Let's you know, let's get money for this or for that. And you've got Leo connecting Joe with all of his you know, his buddies. I mean, their their relationship was much closer, I think than the public has known to this point. Okay, wait, Kardashian Kim, Yes, so play some poker?

Does pretty well? She plays Bakaraye actually actually pretty well. Yes, she does very well. How well does she do? And what happens with the money? She does so well that she's up three hundred and fifty thousand dollars in ship one night, chips one one night, and she her security guard effect says, you got it. Those aren't your chips. You can't take them home. She's give them back to Joel, though Joela says no, no, they're for you. She has a note to do with this many chips. She walks

to the casino counter. They literally give her a bag of two hundred fifty thousand dollars in one hundred dollar bills. They put it in her garbage bag. My favorite. She puts it on her She puts it in her carry on luggage and gets on a Southwest flight back to LA which is like, Ruth, I love you Southwest. But that was I think to many of us. Right there is beautiful. You can't make it up. It is perfects. You're welcome here. All the teaming up was right on

the money. Anthony, thank you so much, Well done the whole team. Your investigation. Anthony Cormier, investigations reporter at Bloomberg News. Joe Webber, the editor of Business Week. This is the cover story. It's a must red. You're gonna have fun this weekend checking it out. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine plus global business, financing,

tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebec from Bloomberg Radio. I'm bro Bloommco a journal now. But you let me drive? Oh no, no, no no, no, who's gonna drive home? Honey? Please, I'll do the riding gravels. Let me. I want to drive. It's a good question. This is the drive to the clothes Donkmunic Well, Brian up jog Down on Bloomberg Radio. All right, got just about eighteen minutes left in today's trading session, getting ready

to wrap up with the Thursday trade. We've got equities, folks, as you just heard from Charlie, we're pretty much at our HAIs of the session now, really outperforming. Nastack go up just like the SMP about nine tenths of a percent. And this is despite the Yel curve, as we talked about earlier, all along the Yeel curve, treasuries we're seeing

back above four percent. So that's pretty interesting. But it has to do with Atlanta President Raphael Bostick saying the Central Bank could be in a position to pause rad hikes sometimes this summer. Is that a pivot, I don't know, but it's something to consider. It is absolutely something to consider that we are definitely going to get into with our next guest, It's time for the drive to the Clothes back with us. JJ Kinahan's CEO at IG North America on Zoom with us from Chicago. JJ, thanks so

much for being here to chat with us. We're gonna talk about a lot with you, JJ, But I do want to just kick it off with that news that Carol was just talking about Bostick Today. Markets like it. Is it Dovish? What's your take? The markets do like it, but the markets have been a bit like a spoiled child,

if you're going to be honest. And what I mean by that is, I don't think that in general, Chairman Powell has actually wavered much from the fact that he's going to keep raising rates until he feels that we're

in a good place. And the market every time there's some hint that we won't raise at the same pace, or we'll slow down a little bit, starts to rally, people get excited, and then you know, it seems like a few weeks later, we raise rates or he says what he's going to do again, and it's almost like you keep testing them, and you know he's saying you're gonna get punished. You're gonna get punished, So we don't

believe him and continue to try. But at the end of the day, I think what this does give people home for is either a pause or maybe you go to quarter point from half point, so the pace starts to slow down, and it does get the market a little bit excited. But overall, as I said, the market just hasn't really wanted to pay attention and I don't think Chairman Powell's way for a whole lot over the

last year and a half. Yeah, dollar index clinging onto gains, no surprises, yields and moved up JJ and we're still holding among that four percent level when it comes to charge yield across the curve. Having said that, things are getting more expensive. We talk about it with you know, corporate real estate, We you know, talk about it with the housing market. We talk about so many different things, and yet you see that enthusiasm in the equity markets. You see a lot on your platform. What are you

seeing when it comes to trades and trends? How are investors largely trading? So it's been a really interesting Carol over the last few months. What we've seen is a real switch from individual names. No surprise, right. You guys report about this all the time, that the individual names maybe don't have as much interest from the retail trader as they did, you know a year, year and a half ago. What we've seen is a lot of people

trading more index based things. And what I mean by that our epos, particularly like spyqq etc. What has been interesting is this year we started to see the return of the individual name, particularly Tesla, Microsoft Apple, sort of the names you would expect, and we had that nice run over the last seven trading days. Going into today, what we had seen is that Microsoft Apple, those two protect names were down almost twenty percent in terms of the amount of trading that we had seen, and Tesla

had fallen off by almost thirty percent. You know, after it's great rally until last Friday, we're starting to see a big interest again in Tesla, and to me, Tesla along with Bitcoin, to be quite honest with you, I use as real barometers of retail investor confidence because those are two stocks that definitely as people are feeling better, they start to a stock in a digital asset that as people start to feel better, they are buying more of As people are more unsure, they start to cut

their trading in there or even sell them. So I think we're at a really interesting crux right now as we head into February, the middle of February and into the end of this first quarter as to will this confidence continue. But the fact is, wait, sorry, go back for a second. So JJ, what you're saying is that we saw people switch out right from individual names and trading index space was a beginning of this year. Are you talking about last year? That was the end of

last year and into the beginning of this year. As this year has progressed. I'm sorry, let me be more clear in that description. As this year has progressed, we've seen more interest in individual names as we rallied those first few weeks of the year, a lot of individual names, and then Tesla, which is one that I look at a lot, is the one that fell off, and it's trading particularly over the last two weeks thirty percent until last Friday. Since last Friday, we've started to see an

uptick again. I mean, you know, the week's only a few days old here, but Tesla started to pick up their trading interest again, which is a good sign to me in that the retail trader is now getting a bit more confidence in the market. And you see that similarly with Apple, kind of a similar idea. Apples us a bit of a trade a trailer behind Tesla and so. But but Tesla, it used to be Apple and Microsoft used to be the leaders that switched, where Tesla is

now the leader of retail confidence. So it doesn't seem to worry you much Tesla dropping by a ton today, you're still thinking that just the volume there is a good indication. Yeah, because what you're seeing is people after when when things worrying me is when people stop buying on the drop where they're like, Okay, we'll buy some

if you drop, we'll buy more. And I think one of the great lessons the retail investor has taken from the memestock craze, etc. Is to not put all their eggs in one basket, if you will, to start to trade more like a professional in that is, you know, nibble at different levels, not I have to be one. Are you starting We've only got what twelve minutes left in the session. Are you seeing buyers come back into the market for Tesla as we're getting ready to wrap

up the day. Any signs of that team. Yes, we've seen, Yes, we're starting to see the stepronom. More people starting to buy test slat about stocks and some call options. And I want to broaden out a little bit because you're talking a lot about the retail investor and we're only going to have about like three seconds with you on this. What do you advise the average retail investor to do with this market? Like we are in such a weird time.

What would your advice be? What should they be looking at a little bit of just what I just said, And that is whatever it is you decide to do, you only do a portion of your investment overall. This second thing is you have to be patient because we have seen this back and forth. No real reason to

leave right now. In my opinion that the S and P five hundred breaks out of the thirty seven hundred on the downside forty two hundred range on the upside convincingly either way for the next month, month and a half or so. There just doesn't see empowering some you know, random weird event. Everything else happening seems to be keeping

us in a range all right. Interesting, interesting, interesting, um JJ Kinahan, thank you so much, so appreciated, Chief Executive Officer of IG North America, joining us via zoom from Chicago.

And this as we are seeing stocks pretty much at their highs of the session, just rolling over a little bit, but up about eight tens of a percent above the S and P and the NASDAC and Maddie, this is still as yields, you know, holding on to those for the most part, yet four percent levels across the current crazy This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

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