Stanford Takes Top Spot in MBA Ranking

You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well. Bloomberg Business Week is a go to magazine for so many things. In depth features as you heard earlier with Drake Bennett, tech trends, economic theory, financial markets, politics, and of course the annual ranking of the world's top NBA programs and the latest list it is out online. We got Demetri Hassanidis with us.

She is the one behind the Bloomberg Business Week Best at b School of twenty three. She's senior editor at Bloomberg New She's with us right now in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio Demetra, I'm going to give you the honor of revealing the top spot here. Drumroll please, Stanford is the number one school year sec. Wait, this is not last year, this is two. Stanford has been the number one school for a few years running now, so no surprise. You know, it's got a lot going for it.

That is very much about what people are looking for today. The classic industry, draws, the proximity to the tech industry, very strong programs, very entrepreneurial programs. On every point, it's really hitting the marks. So it's doing great. And then tie for second place she University of Chicago and Harvard UH and the top five get rounded out with Northwestern and Dartmouth. How often does like the top five kind

of stay the same? I mean, I would say that it stays the same for a few years running, with some minor shifts among you know, among the schools. This year, the top ten, we're all the same schools. Is last year one or two went down one one or two one up one? You know that that's what you're dealing with. There are also very minor differences, I want to say, at those levels in this ranking, Like even though you're

number one, or number two or number five. The points that are separating you from that next school are small and few, unless it's one between number one and numbers two, three, four and five. Right. That is, though, is very far ahead of Well, that's what's so interesting. Eight. Eight is

the score that Stanford got. Um. I'm wondering when it came to diversity what the list looks like, because you know, you click on that and by the way, this is the type of thing to go check out on Bloomberg dot com or look at it on the Bloomberg terminal because it's a great interactive feature. Here. It's so funny because our producer would be like, should we put off the story and that's what we said, it's so interactive. Do you really want to go online with it? Exactly?

It is? Um, I think they've I just want to say, first, not the one. There's a huge team behind this and the real people who are actually doing this, with the ones compiling, you know, looking at the data and building these amazing interactive tools. So definitely go to Bloomberg dot com slash business hyphen schools and you will have an incredible experience. But diversity, yeah, well, it's you know, Endeaversity is measured in different ways here and you can you

can actually filter it in different ways here. But what does the rank look like when it comes to diversity, Well, you know, I mean, UM, I would say it's it's uh, it's mixed. So we're looking at diversity in terms of gender diversity and then breakdowns with um, you know, black students and Hispanic students. And we say this in our overview to the schools have and if there's one area where you know, we feel like there's a little bit of work to be done, it's in working towards that parody.

So parody is when you're trying to sort of reach relative equality among certain groups. Um, you have seven schools only where there was gender parody that was met this year, eleven where black students had parody with you know, other groups, and UM eight schools for Hispanics. So it's it's not really you know, they're there is a ways to go, and I think in some ways now we're starting to talk about how b schools, you know, are they not

even reflective of what's happening out in the world. There's so much talk and pressure you know, E S G. Equality, diversity, UM in the ranks of the c suites, and so that pressure I think is trickling over to the schools now to ensure that they are focused on getting those

numbers up there. I am curious about the pandemic because it was tricky, right obviously, the pandemic anybody in academia and how that has at all impacted rankings or how you guys are looking at the different schools in the programs. I don't think. I don't know that they've meaningfully affected the rankings, especially this year. We did come back with the rankings after a year off last year, right one

for UM. But I think the pandemic has affected a lot of things on campus as we're talking to people, hearing about the priorities of students, the interests that are starting to emerge career wise. The classics are always there, uh consulting finance technology, but now E s G is a big one. Climate change is a big one. UM. The pandemic and being home and experiencing life for two years in very different ways has focused people on different things.

Interest in certain healthcare careers and how we're going to move forward from this age of covid um. Maybe other pandemics and what kind of opportunities are out there. I also think it's really focused the schools and the students on how they teach and how they learn, so everybody values in person. I don't think that's ever going away.

But now people know that flexibility is possible, and there are really many different ways that you can fashion how learning is going to happen when you say in person too, And I know we have to wrap up, and I do highly recommend people go online because it's just so cool to kind of click through the different schools and get their rankings and just break it down in so

many different ways. But I do think in school, especially when you think about business school, so much of it is outside entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs, business people who come into to speak and you get FaceTime. Tim. You know at first time when you're up at Colombia how important that is. Demit we have to run, but thank you so much to meet your Cassonedi. She's senior editor Bloomberg News. And

check out that NBA rankings of Business Week. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Yeah, it's a pretty busy Thursday and roving fun with our next guest. Not a guest, she's actually family. She sometimes subs in for us. She covers it when we're out. Uh, and she's got

her hands in so many different pots. We're talking about Katie Greifeld, Bloomberg News, senior markets reporter, co host of E T F I q BA, Bloomberg TV and Tim She wrote a really about a really big in bet that happened last night. We were obviously I asked Carol that too, and she said she was asleep and as I think it was finalized, like completed, actually close to the book at like two, But that kind of makes sense. Did you stay up for it? But listen, when I

woke up, I was all over it. Okay. So for people whose heads are spinning right now, being like, okay, what we're talking here, tell us what the merge is when it comes to ethereum. So we're talking about the ethereum blockchain. You probably know ether. I hope. It's the second biggest cryptocurrency, second to Bitcoin. It operates, of course, on the Ethereum blockchain, which underwent this big big revamps seven years in the making last night from a proof

of work consensus mechanism to proof of steak. And that sounds really in the weeds, and it is. But proof of work is how bitcoins are mind and how ethers were mind. And it takes up a lot of energy, which you've probably heard about bitcoins energy consumption being a point of contention. Proof of steak is much more energy efficient, and proponents say that by moving to proof of steak, Uh, the ethereum energy consumption is going to be cut by okay, just because I feel like part of our process is

to educate. So proof of work is what showing the actual mechanisms steak just saying the way that um, new baby bitcoins are born thirst day that everybody is the roof proof of work, where basically bitcoin miners have to solve increasingly complex problems to make invalidate new bitcoin. And that wasn't really a problem when bitcoin was under a hundred dollars worth pennies, as it was for a long time. Uh,

but that takes up increasingly more and more energy. You have like these arms races between miners uh to solve those problems. So I mean you often hear comparisons like bitcoins. Energy consumption is that of a small country and even a big country, even a gig country country of Argentina or Ukraine is the latest, or several small countries if

you add them together. So proof of steak, yeah, proof of steak basically it's you have a bunch of ether and you become a validator by staking your ether, basically putting up your ether. If you put up thirty two ether,

you become a validator. And if you don't have thirty two ether and ether goes right now for round, it doesn't sound totally You have to sort of suspend your disbelief here, but stick with me, so you can if you don't have thirty two ether to put up and become a validator, you can join up with your buddies and become a joint validator. But the sort of net effect that the average person needs to know is proof

of stake. It's much less energy intensive. So it raises the question about dominance when it comes to crypto here and the idea that okay, well, if ethereum successfully pulled off this merge, and it indeed uses less energy on a proof of steak model than a proof of work model. Does that mean it's going to be the crypto that is sort of crowned king Ether maxis would certainly hope hope. Those are maximalists, Yeah, people who really treat this as a religion. And there is this sort of event that

hasn't happened yet. It's called the flippening. And what the flippening? Uh something to Paul Sweeney, Yes, control room, are we just is she just making up stuff as we go? Yeah, welcome to shady thoughts. But the flippening it's when Ether's market cap will overtake that of bitcoin. Bitcoin still it has twice the can bitcoin do the same thing? That's

a question that I've asked. And the thing about proof of steak, even though it really cuts down on energy use, it's not as tried and tested as proof of work. We know proof of work works, we know that it's hard to hack. People are really worried about sort of the security potential vulnerabilities with proof of steak, and you have to get the whole network to agree to do this,

and Ethereum did. But there's a lot of hardcore bitcoin maximalists who don't want to do that, who say that this is sort of the price you pay for the security that the bitcoin blockchain as it operates right now provides you. When will we know if this works? It's a good question. We know at least that this initial phase, this big milestone, is passed, but in the weeks to come, it's going to be really interesting. So there are these

sort of forks that are created. You're gonna have copies of ethereum that will spring up that will still is mining. It's not a perfect complete switch, so it'll be interesting to see how that operates. You did have a lot of exchanges, and while it's sort of cease ethereum activity leading up to the merge, those have to come back online. We haven't seen any problems that I know of so far, but the first time there's a security blimp, I mean

that to me is the huge issue. Right Yeah, ultimately people will sees on that, and of course the proof of work believers, the bitcoin maximalists will also sees on that, but again we haven't seen evidence of that yet. What's interesting to me if you look at today's price action, though Ether has been rallying like crazy since mid June until right now, it is shaping up to be a sell the news event. You have Ether down about six point seven percent. You look at what bitcoin is doing,

it's only done about one person. Where their questions still in just the last thirty seconds we have with you, if this was actually going to be successful, if the merge was actually going to happen, there were questions. You had a lot of people shorting Ether heading up into this sort of hedging the possibility that there will be

a glitch because software updates. Uh, it's not perfect. Really, I've heard of breaking news so well told, so well reported, and I know it's something you can continue to keep a track on. Kati Gryfile, Bloomberg News, Senior Market reportic host of E T f i Q on Bloomberg TV. Which is why she knows so much as a little about bit going and all that good stuff. Um, I have a feeling she was up late waiting for the merge to happen. I think she she was awake, quite awake.

All right, you're listening to Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, the new issue of Bloomberg Business Week it is out, it is on newsstands, it's online at Bloomberg dot com, Slash business Week and of course on the Bloomberg terminal and uh. The cover story this week is about the Chinese spy that wanted ge secrets about the US got China's instead. It's one of

those what moments, Yeah, really is. It's a story that has all the trappings of a spy movie. We've got meetings in hotel rooms, copying hard drives dated lean from iPhones, and a political adversary looking for industrial secrets. Jodan Robertson and Drake Bennett wrote the piece. As Carol mentioned, it's the cover of Bloomberg Business Week this week. We got Drake Bennett, technology reporter for Bloomberg Business this Week with

us right now in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studios. Also with us is Joel Webber, the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He's with us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studios. Joel, I want to start with you and just give us an idea about how a story like this comes together. As I mentioned, it's got all the trappings. Yes, yes, yes,

I'm so excited about this story. Is just marvelous. So whenever you talk about China in US and in intellectual property and what companies have, you know, there's always been this assumption that in reporting has suggested that Chinese are really good at a spine and stealing stuff, and but we never really get a sense of what that actually

looks like. And so when Jordan and Drake Um came just with this story, the thing that just jumped out at us was, it's all there, we have all the reporting, and it's in part because of this cotton mouse game that evolved that I'm sure Drake's gonna tell us about, and it ended up in court, and because the US was able to not only nab this Chinese spy and his phone, we got it all, we got all the info, Um, and Jordan and Drake kind of pieced it all together

and told this story that reads like you're gonna watch this on TV someday. Um. And so Drake, I mean, like, you know, this is raw stuff that you ran across, and I'm curious, just like when you saw it and Jordan's saw it, like, how did it pop to you? Guys? I mean, like you said, it's just an extraordinary opportunity

because this is normally just a black box. UM. You just see kind of the outgoing stuff, UM, where it's the companies that are being targeted or it's the people that are being you know targeted as potential source is and you never get to see what goes on back in China. And what happened with this guy is he was you know, the first ever MSS officer to be

lured out of China. The Ministry of State Security, so it's basically government Chinese yeah intelligence, which is responsible not only for military and government intelligence, but you know economic and that's a secret, no, like not a secret, not a secret. Um, we know what happens, we know a

lot less about what it looks like. UM. And so when this guy gets lured out through this very painstaking FBI investigation, UM, he's arrested and he has his phone on him and he his iPhone on him, and he has backed up everything not I mean just everything to the cloud. UM. So there's all this like sensitive you know MSS documents. Uh, there's correspondence between him and his colleagues, between him and his sources, and there's also just a

lot of like really intimate person detail about himself. UM, you know, he's he's someone I mean, you know, there's a lot of like his name is Juan John Um and he's um, you know, a lot there's some cloak and dagger stuff in the story, but a lot of it is also just the you know, he's this espionage bureaucrat and he's sort of like you watch him get sort of like ground down by his job, and he gets more and more unhinged, and he's just spending all

this time and like massage parlors and drunken card games, and I think that may have sort of, you know, affected his decision making a little bit. I'm not gonna say, quiet quitting the US quiet quit for him? Um what tell us about the expense accounts? Right? Right? So? Um, he actually in theory, you know, these guys you know a lot of right, yeah, so in theory exactly, they they you know a lot of what they do is they're just handing people money, you know, three thousand dollars,

six thousand dollars for your travel expenses or for whatever. Um. But he one of his sort of gripes over time, and it gnaws at him more and more, is that his boss just keeps rejecting these expense accounts UM for these dinners, he has to like recruit people and it just really drives him nuts. And you because we have his diary. He has this he treated his eye calendar. Basically, it's like a diary. So there's stuff about, you know,

meeting with this person or doing this hack. And then it's just like my boss rejected the expenses again and he just like it clearly just burns him. So which are just epic, you know, So I just you just assume, like we take on the us anything you need, and it's like, actually it's yeah, the target that ends up being uh, so much of the story is actually ge right, what was what was this? By going for and and

tell us about how that played out. So it's g E jet engines and it's in particular it's these uh

composite fan blade and casings for the fan blade. So uh G Aviation is is still basically the only company that has these super lightweight fan blades and casing so their their engines can be lighter, UM, more fuel efficient, UM, safer uh and every and so basically this is a key technology UM that Drew had sort of focused on and he sort of a rise at this through these conversations with folks in the Chinese government, with folks at Stayed owned aircraft aeronautics companies UM in China, and so

that's what So he, through this intermediary, through this academic basically a university official, reaches out to this engineer at the aviation, you know, through LinkedIn, invites him to come

give this talk, and then it sort of begins. Um. What he doesn't realize is that midway through this process the FBI sort of intervenes UM and starts investigating Um, his his potential source at the aviation, who then through not to boil the end of the story, but who ends up being instrumental in in the investigation to then turn around and and trap um. You himself, our producer said, one of the stupidest or dumbest spies ever just got stop.

I think that was one of the most interesting takeaways from this is like the idea that people have in their heads of a James Bond type figure, what is the life of a spy? Just in the last minute that we have with you, Yeah, I mean he's a bureaucrat. He's an espionage bureaucrat. You know, he's a cog in this big machine, you know, in certain ways. I think he he you know, he has a lot of power back home, and he sort of seems to abuse it

in certain ways. But he also has this boss that's on him all the time, you know, who's like constantly demanding these things that he feels like a really unreasonable um and so it's a bit of a grim existence in certain ways, and I think it sort of drives him a little around the bend. No Martinis, No Weston Martin's No, definitely not there. Maybe Martiniz, but they're not gonna out one trip out of the country. You got to go to Belgium and then you know, oh my goodness.

It is a great We're saying, where is he now in jail? Oh, he's in jail in Ohio. He's a winning sounding Yeah, we'll come back once way no more, yeah, exactly to be continued. But it's a great read. It is the cover story of the new issue of Bloomberg Business Week. As we mentioned, it is online on the Bloomberg on newsstands are Thanks to Bloomberg Business we get it to Joel Weber and Business Week technology reporter Drake

Bennett joining us. Check out his story. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week Carol Master, Tim Stanovic, and this is Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Crisis averted at least it seems that way, as US railroads and unions representing more than a hundred thousand workers

reached a tentative deal. According to the government, it's a breakthrough that looks to a labor disruption that risks adding supply chain strain to the world's largest economy. It was just like another thing ing you, like, are you kidding me? Yeah? I mean well, fortunately, yeah, it wasn't a joke. But it doesn't seem like things are going to be as bad as they could have been. We got Crety Group to joining us right now. She's Markets correspondent for Bloomberg.

She's also right now on site at Greenville Yard in Jersey City, New Jersey, not that far from us, just right over the Hudson Uh Creedy. Uh, what's the latest about the unions and railroads actually reaching a tentive agreement here? Um? Well, it kind of seems like there's an all clear signal here. What's interesting is that about twelve hours ago that was absolutely not the case. In fact, we were heading for

a major halt of the entire U S economy. And now it seems to be that the union membership is putting this tentive agreement to a vote. But the key word here, tim is tentative, because we're not there yet. Remember, this deal has a wage increase in about twenty It has bonuses included. On ratification of this deal, those workers will get about an average of eleven thousand dollars of bonus just right off the bat for signing that deal. On top of that, they're getting an additional paid day off.

They're getting access to more health care without increased costs, something that the railroad carriers themselves were actually pushing for. And arguably more importantly, they're now getting more time off work for things like surgical procedures, hospitalizations. If they have an emergency and need to take a sick day or need to tend to a family member, they won't be

penalized for it, which was the case earlier. I do wonder, too, how much pressure is you know, union leaders thinking about this, other industries thinking about this, or the government thinking about what this whatever happens here, what this might mean for other industries, whether it's retail or something else, about some kind of union agreement. Well, the contagion effect here, Carol, was so real, but I mean this isn't new. Also

think about a dear Kellogg PepsiCo. There's are just some of the companies that have been dealing with with strikes of some sort, strikes that we haven't seen for decades. And a lot of this house do have to do with wages and also doing working conditions. And you see this on Wall Street as well, Carol, this idea that perhaps not a strike among junior bankers, but certainly more of a move towards catering to better working conditions, better

work life balance, better health benefits. Uh. Those that is all going to be a structural change in the economy. We're talking to Sarah house Uh, the Wells Fargo economist earlier on Bloomer Television, and she said, well, this is something that's getting a little bit hard to quantify now because it's such a structural change you're seeing across industries and the railroad side of things, Carol, I should say it's kind of the anomaly when it comes to a

lot of these sectors. It has the kind of wonky quirk that goes back to legalist to legislation. Excuse me written in nine six. I won't borrow you with the details, but basically it just means that some of these things that have been existing in other industries, like a point based system, for example, where if you are put on call and you don't make it, you're deducted points. That's something that's been in the banking system for a while. It is just now post COVID been introduced to the

railroad system. So extra sensitivity in this particular industry as it evolves a crety. Can you just take us through what's a what was at stake here and why this was such a big deal. I mean we hear figures like two billion dollars a day a cost the economy if this strike would have happened. Oh and it would have been quite the image, actually, Tim, if this had

actually panned out. I mean, freight is about thirty percent of cargo in the entire United States, and the United States has the largest rail system in the entire world, so let's start with commuting here. We've heard about Amtrak now looking to resume their services as soon as possible, but that would have affected things like commuters going into Chicago, the biggest railroad hub in the entire country. It would have affected things like San Francisco Minneapolis. There's a train

line that goes from Minneapolis into Chicago. It's a major commuter hub. Sim rulers the way that New Jersey commuters hop into New York, that entire thing would have been shut down. So that's just one example. Auto vehicles is something that we've seen specifically here in Greenville and the Yard. Auto vehicles are transported from Mexico from Detroit across the

country by primarily trains. It's the most efficient way. And here you actually, as we were coming in about twelve hours ago, we saw a lot of them just parked new vehicles on trucks waiting to be loaded, and they were just standing on the sidewalk. I gotta say, everyone listening, Creety can hear the activity going on in the background there. That sounds like the that sounds like people working, and it sounds like helicopters and airplanes flying overhead as well. Well,

I certainly was. I mean the activity I would say picked up a little bit in the last thing a couple of hours. That's really fascinating. Well, after what years decades of union uh power uh, and it feels like authority declining it maybe we're starting to see a little bottoming of that. In an upswing um Crety, thank you so much, really great reporting. Bloomberg Markets correspondent Creety Group on site at the Greenville rail Yard in Jersey City.

I always think it's fascinating him and increasingly high tech economy, high tech society we all talk about, and yet when it comes to moving things around, it's about putting them on trains, putting them on trucks. It's it's pretty basic. Yeah, crisis of But as we talked about yesterday, Carol, what a quarter of goods here in the States are moved by train. It's it's it's shocking and to a lot of people, I think it's still how stuff moves around, right,

and get central technology exactly. I'm macro a journal now, but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no, no, home, I'll do gravel. I want to drive. It's a good question. Drive. This is the drive to the clothes on Bluebird Radio. All right, coming up on less than ten minutes away from that closing bell, Charlie. Of course, breaking down the numbers.

We are just coming off our loads of this session, as you mentioned, but still technology names taking the biggest hit on a percentage basis, Tim just down about one point three. I'm glad you brought that up. Microsoft is actually a really wing on the S and P five hundred in NASDAC one hundred today. It's down at levels. Last scene in the middle of June, which side of the way did and by the way, middle of June was the lows of this market, So you gotta wonder

if we're headed back that way. Let's get into it with Roger mortim Or, portfolio manager at Crane Shares, joining us on the phone from San Francisco. Roger, how are you. I'm great, Thanks very much, sim and Carroll, it's gonna have you with us. Um. You know, normally on a day like today where you see the nastack down one point four percent and s and having or down a full percentage point, it's kind of like, you know, volatility

that we've been seeing. It's kind of like par for the course, now, days like this aren't out of the ordinary. It does seem that way for sure. Yeah, what's going on? Well, I tell you what. Our our thesis is an area which we think is very attractive for industries to focus on at a time when markets are volatile and things are changing. Um, energy transition and climate is a huge growth area at a time when growth is very difficult to find, and so we think that this is a

place where investors should be paying some attention. How specifically, well, here's here's in an allergy for the you know, for life on Earth. We're sitting in the car in the garage with the door shut and the engine running, and that's unsustainable. You know, eight per cent of the energy that we use on Earth is fossil fuels. And scientists and policy makers now agree that this is not something

that we can continue to do. And so governments are pushing this idea of energy transition, uh and pushing it hard all around the world. And they really have three reasons to do that. They they believe in energy transition

because they have signed net zero treatise. More than seventy countries around the world have signed climate objectives of net zero, but energy transition also addresses this idea of energy security, which of course is incredibly important in Europe at the moment, where if you don't provide the energy that runs your economy,

you really don't have control of your economy. And finally, as we saw with the Climate Bill here in the United States the Inflation and Reduction Act, is that energy transition activity can create a huge amount of economic value. So so governments really are lined up to drive the energy transition and that is a long term policy commitment.

That is structural desire for spending. And that's quite different and um sort of the drivers for many stocks, which would be what's the said going to do next week, what to earn? Like this is a long term, long runway of growth. Well, how long term and how patient do investors have to be? Because this Carol has talked about for months, as we've learned from what's happening in Ukraine and what's happening in Europe with gas supplies being

shut off from Russia and the price just just exploding. Essentially, Uh, this is transition is not coming in a very short time, and we're a lot less far along in the transition that I think a lot of people thought we were I were still reliant on those fossil fuels. Yeah, so I would I would turn that arounoun and say the need, the need is more acute than ever. And people are starting to realize that right that energy costs are a

huge source of inflation. It takes a long time to build infrastructure, and high energy costs speed into food costs um which drives inflation there. And these are not transitory factors.

We're gonna be in an inflationary environment for some time. Roger, do you kind of cringe when and forgive me playing a little bit of Devil's advocating here, but when whether it's the US officials, the president or his teams say, you know, we're going to release reserves or whatever to bring down you know, oil prices and gasoline prices or whatever, you know, if you will, so that it's not so

much pressure on individuals here in the United States. And yet that kind of goes against the climate initiatives because you almost in order to facilitate change, there needs to be some pain with the way we're trying to get away from Is that not fair? Yeah, Carol, it's a good question. But the problem is is so much bigger

than the release of strategic reserves in oil. Right, we use energy everywhere in our world, and essentially we have to change the way that we do that cross multiple industries, and essentially what we are going to try to do as a society is electrify everything and generate that electricity

with renewable power. And that creates huge runway for companies that are in business related to either generating renewable power, tying it into the grid, storing it perhaps is either in a battery or hydrogen form, and in the electrification of all of these in technologies. And this is a

multi decade theme. Uh the do we have multi decade I mean, like I think about this and I'm looking at what's going on with the climate, and I'm just thinking how much time do we realistically have before I mean, it's already pretty severe in certain parts of the world. Yeah, you're you're preaching to the converted. Here's what I think happens. As as the rate of climate change accelerates, people become

more aware, they put more pressure on policy makers. We invest in companies that look dirty today but are transitioning to clean business maaw holes, and as they transition their valuation increases. There's a valuation arbitrage, and we think that as investors see that this is occurring, they will they will start pushing other companies to do this. And this is what's really interesting is the social and financial objectives are aligned. Today clean power generators trade at multiples of

what dirty power generators do. And so if you're a company like our w E in Germany or a S in the United States, you're emphasizing to your shareholders that you are growing rapidly with renewables and that renewables as a share of your total is becoming larger and larger. And the pool of investors who want green companies is bigger than those who want what you used to be.

So the valuation expands. Just in the last ninety seconds that we have with you, Roger, talk some names here and who you think is the are the right companies to be bullish on. So this is a global fund and and tim you have to to pursue a strategy of investing in energy transition. You have to go to where the government policy is most aggressive in forcing the change,

because that's where the companies are reacting the fastest. So we have a big position in r w E a German utility but today looks like a coal fired utility. It's sort of investment that nobody wants to make. But it is rapidly transforming itself into a renewable utility and trades that less than a quarter of the valuation that the companies that look like that trade at. We own Reliance Industries as one of India's largest companies, and India is a net energy importer. Uh, it requires US dollars

to do that. That's very difficult. Reliance is the de facto implementation vehicle for India to meet its own renewable needs, and it's building out the whole value chain at a very, very rapid rate. During the United States, they did a lot of work ahead. Just quickly discussed to say, in the United States, a company like as right next Ara is already clean, trades at the very high valuation. As is managing that transition between dirty and clean, and it's

being revalued as it does. As it does, it makes hey listen, great to check in with you, especially we've got Climate Week coming up over the next week or so, and certainly we'll be talking about it a lot. Roger Mortimer good check in with you again. Portfolio manager Crane Chairs on the phone from San Francisco. Thanks for listening

to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News.