You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. She is described our next guest as a pioneer of the corporate Civil Rights audit. It's a new tool for getting companies to confront their role in perpetuating racial disparity. She spent two years auditing Facebook, specifically her highest profile client to date. She's also the subject of a story in The Kurnel
Show Bloomberg Business Week by Bloomberg's Naomi Nicks. Let's bring in Laura Murphy. She's national Civil Liberties and Civil Rights leader, president of Laura Murphy and Associates, former director of the A c l U Legislative Office, and a senior advisor. Has been to Airbnb. She joins us on the phone from Washington, d C. Laura, it is so nice to
have you here with us. I feel like there's so much to talk about on this Friday, and I want to start with if I may with some news on Airbnb today because they said they came out and said it will allow hosts and guests to sue the company over claims of sexual assault and harassment. In its listings, lifting a mandatory arbitration clause that has been around for years, and it's really been buried in it's forty page terms of service. Uh, for as I said, many years, for
more than a decade to be exact. We talked about it earlier on air. You've worked with Airbnb. How do you see this news in this latest development, Well, I think it goes, um. I go it goes a long way toward the California Statute UM that UM allows women to sue under various circumstances. UM. I think it's an outgrowth of a me too movement. UM. I know that in talking to civil rights leaders, they would like UM the mandatory arbitration clauses to be lifted for race discrimination
and other types of claims as well. And so UM, it's a start for civil rights leaders. But I think, you know, it's a welcome start. But I don't think it's going to satisfy all of the critics. And that's it's interesting that you say that. There was a Bloomberg Business Week investigation cover story that talked a lot about some of the crimes, violent crimes that have gone on and how a lot of people have been prevented from talking about it. You know, I want to dig deeper
and kind of your last thought there. I mean, how did we get here in the corporate world of having such bad policies on a lot of important issues, especially when it comes to civil rights. I just think, um, there's a tremendous lack of awareness, and it's not necessarily intentional, but I don't think we get um very good education generally in UM in civics in terms of rights and
liberties and what they mean in this country. And I also think that, um, so there's a lack of awareness, but I also think it's so commonplace that it doesn't stop you from becoming a billionaire, um not having a background and understanding of how policies and practices may exclude certain people based on their race, or their religion, or their sexual orientation, et cetera. So it's it's just a
fact of life. It's and and that's why I think corporate civil rights audits are needed because they're just too many people in positions of power who aren't aware of the laws. And if you ask them, Okay, what are what are my values? Value? Treating people equally and all of that, people will give the right answers. But where the where the rubber meets the road is is in
the implementation of those values. So I think a lot of corporations embrace these values, but they don't test their products to make sure that they don't violate the values. For example, there's a lot of concern about facial recognition software and the fact that it was tested on white men, and so it really doesn't work on people of different
races and even there are some gender differences. So before these products are released to market, they should be tested across a range of of characteristics so that people are not selling products that that harm people. I mean, facial recognition is used by policing, you know, entities, and so this this has dire consequences if it's not right. Right, your biased nous kind of prevents you from maybe realizing that the data that ultimately goes into some of this
are a lot of this is biased. Ultimately, what is before we get too far into this, We've got about a minute and then we'll come back and continue the conversation. What is a corporate civil rights audit? A corporate civil rights audit is an independent analysis of a company's business practices um to identify and correct practices that may have a discriminatory effect. And that could be with their customers, with their employees, with everything, with everything, it could be
the products that they sell. Uh, you know, is a is a mortgage product you know sold by bank going to have a different impact on one community than it has on another, an unfair and different impact. UM. So yes, it's products, it's personnel, it's company values, it's an assessment.
The civil rights audit first assesses how these different um, how the different verticals within a company are affecting people, and whether or not they're having a discrimin in the tory impact, and whether or not there's a remedy for them, and what that remedy is. Laura, sit tight for a second.
I gotta do a little bit of news. But I want to come back and I want to continue the conversation because I am curious about when you first go into a company, whether it's an Airbnb or whether it's a Facebook, which you have spent a lot of time with, I think a couple of years auditing Facebook. I want to know how that goes initially and how it evolves as a process. We're gonna come back with Laura Murphy.
She's president of Laura Murphy and Associates, former director of the A C l U Legislative Office, and a subject of a Bloomberg Business Week story. She's on the phone from the nation's capital. Will continue in just a moment. Hey, I want to get back to our guests. We're still talking with Laura Murphy. She's, as I mentioned earlier, national civil liberties and civil rights leader, president of Laura Murphy and Associates, former director of the A C l U
Legislative Office. She's on the phone from Washington, d C. And we're talking about corporate civil rights audit. Laura, talk to me about your time at Facebook, because you spent several years with them. I'm always curious when you first go into a company, why did they bring you in? And you know, what's the initial conversations you have with
management that maybe tell you that their way off the mark. Well, um I was brought in because I was suggested by civil rights leaders as someone who could help Facebook um UH address a multitude of concerns that had been voiced over the years by different um civil rights organizations and um rout ranging from religious groups to LGBT Q groups to African American groups, to people with disabilities, all of that, and so, UM, you know, there was there was a
growing frustration in the overarching civil rights community with Facebook, and UM, you know, I think a lot of the staff wanted the company to address these issues in a much more substantive way. UM. I was greeted, um with enthusiasm by many of the middle managers who had been fielding these concerns for years. And it took some time
to get the attention of the upper leadership. But once we did get their attention, UM, we really got down to business and I started meeting with leaders in different verticals and um, you know, people who created products, people who were responsible for advertising and marketing, people who were
responsible for enforcing the community standards. UM. It was a multi year, multi pronged product where we looked at the impact of these products and policies and practices on different constituencies and users Facebook, and we found that there were some discrepancies and how people were treated. And again, UM, this was a very um consultative process. This was not an antagonistic process. This was uh me saying okay, you've got the following three allegations let's find out if they're true.
If they're true, what do you want to do about them? Um? And because are my recommendations? What are your recommendations? And you know, a process of consultation to to fix problems. I like to see myself as a as a problem solver, not someone who just identifies problems, right, which is much more productive. Right ultimately, and trying to figure out how do we get from maybe point A to point z. Uh. If you will, hey, tell us a little bit about
a meeting that you put that you helped. I guess the conversation between Facebook executives and civil rights groups, Carol. I'm going to answer that question. Um, but I want to say something about the process being productive. This is a far more productive process than having a regulation come down from a federal agency or litigation. Um, results happen sooner. You're not in You're not caught in antagonism. You know that keeps you warring with each other. Um, You're not
caught up in the machinations of the legal system. So I think this is a preferable process to some of the other processes that have been used over the years to advance civil rights. Now, I think civil rights. Litigation is important, and lawsuits are important, and regulation are important. I'm not saying I'm anti any of that. Actually worked for a lot of those laws to come to fruition, but I am saying, in terms of really attacking the problems with the level of immediacy, this is I think
this is a good way to go. You know, No, you know what, forgive me. We we were running out of time, and I hope we can have no no dope because I think what you said was really important, because I think we are grappling, especially after the last year and a half and we've talked so much about diversity and inclusion and how we can do things better. That that I think is a very peaceful, very helpful piece of advice in terms of how do we get
to a better way? Because I was going to ask you, you know, my last question was, you know, a piece of advice for everybody out there, and they can read the story and here a little bit more about um that meeting. I hope you will come back because I think these are important conversations. I think are Bloomberg audience
knows they are important conversations. I constantly have having conversations with Chief executives about you know, their employees and what they want and how they can be better, whether it's with their own workforce or as you said, you often are you know, talking about how they reach their customers in a better way and more equal way. Um, Laura, thank you so much and do come back. Laura Murphy.
She is president of Laura Murphy and Associates. I'll put that Bloomberg Business Week story out on Twitter for you so you can read a little bit more about her.