This is Bloomberg business Week Inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.
If you're just now joining us in breaking news, US regulators for the first time approving ETFs that invest directly in bitcoin. This is a move heralded as a landmark event for the roughly one point seven trillion dollar asset industry, the digital asset sector that will broaden access to the largest cryptocurrency on Wall Street and beyond. The SEC, whose three part mandate includes investor protection authorized eleven funds to
begin trading on Thursday. Let's now go to Carol Masser, who's standing by with Kathy Wood, the CIO, CEO and co founder of ARC invest.
All right, so, Kathy, what do you think about in this moment of time, As we said, this has been long in coming.
Yes, well, you described two ways this could happen. It can happen very quickly or will it happen very slowly? When you're talking about institutions that that you know have been very fearful of this space because of Gary Gensler and you know, all of the drama. I think they're
going to tread lightly. I don't know if you saw, but Gary Gensler put out a piece today right as we're about to go effective, and I'm sure we all went effective roughly around the same time, and he just denigrated the whole crypto space.
It was just like I couldn't believe it.
So anyway, it's with that kind of trepidation that institutions are going to have to, you know, work through and do all of their due diligence. However, I do think that a lot of investors have considered, you know, have been curious. And you'll see we've been from a marketing campaign. We've been using this tagline, aren't you a bit curious? There are so many people who are curious out there.
Of course, a lot of our existing clients know all about bitcoin because we have owned it since twenty fifteen, but there are a lot of people who really have a hunger to know, and we can see that as more and more people read our research, tune into our Bitcoin brainstorm that we do with Rod and Bitcoin Park in Nashville, Tennessee. Read our Bitcoin monthlies and you know, read all we have to say about crypto and blogs and in our Brainstorm summary. So you know, we are
getting all the curiosity. I think that's why we started. So we know a lot of people are waiting and believe it or not, Carol the curious extend to state pension funds and state treasurers we're talking to. So it's a really broad swap.
Well catch people.
And I do wonder what you think success will be out of the gate in terms of investment flows.
What's your hope, what's your goal or estimate in terms of bringing investors into the fund.
Well, it's very interesting.
I was, we were I was speaking to Eric Beltunis, her colleague, and according to his estimates, there's there's four billion dollars waiting, you know, in the wings. And I said to him, well, from your lips to God's ears, that would be amazing.
And you know, we hope we get our fair share of it.
I mean, we've certainly, we've certainly done a lot to educate the community, and we experience a lot of gratitude for that too, from from from the innovation communities, including the bitcoin community. But also from the financial community, those who really are trying to find the next big idea. The old guard you know, basically throw out there all kinds of risks, and you know, some people call it fear,
uncertainty and doubt. It happens every time, Carol, And I'm not saying it's a bad thing for people to really do their homework. They should do their homework, they should understand the risks. But this is par for the course in disruptive innovation, you know. And thank you, Carol. You gave us our first interview twenty fifteen when we were barely off the ground.
You believed in us back then.
And at the time, you remember, we were talking about Tesla. So fear uncertainty and doubt, not even about autonomous which is the next set.
Of fears, but about evs.
Wouldn't traditional auto manufacturers absolutely choke them to death? This is completely new DNA, and so it's the old DNA as the old car companies were the old DNA, you know, basically bashing the old new DNA.
But truth wins out.
Truth wins out, better, factor, cheaper, more productive.
So yeah, you know, one thing I want to ask you is as like yourself all of us here in the newsroom, you know, watching just you know, new things come into the market over decades, and this is certainly interesting, but we are still wondering about the real case use. I mean that no one has really demonstrated a real life use case when it comes to bitcoin.
We think about it all the time.
Our first paper, white paper, was all about could bitcoin serve the three rolls of money means of exchange, store value, unit of account. Most people are thinking store of value right now. But I'm going to plug one of our bitcoin brainstorms if you want a mind blowing experience. And I am lucky to be able to ask questions on these brainstorms. But we had I think it was either our second or third brainstorm, which was about the convergence
of bitcoin and artificial intelligence. And we had on people who are toiling to make all of this happen, one of them a roast beef from the Lightning Network or Lightning Labs. And I have to tell you what's going on in the emerging markets and the division of labor, the redefinition of labor a little bit like what happened to the gig economy here, but put that on steroids.
Put that on steroids. It's already starting to happen. So I would highly, highly highly advise anyone interested in trying to figure out how the world is going to work listen to that Bitcoin brainstorm, because it's already starting to work in the emerging markets where they need it so desperately.
Kathy, what's the advantage of the arc spot Bitcoin etf over the others who also got to prove today? You know, we've been, as you know, reporting a lot about this kind of war on fees. Again today you guys cutting your fee. So what's the advantage of going with you versus a black Rock or a Fidelity or some of the other players who are out there.
So at least three advantages, Carol. First, we selected our partner very carefully. Twenty one Shares is the largest peer play crypto ETP provider in the world with two and a half billion dollars in assets.
So what does that mean.
That means with their forty funds before we launched with them, with their forty funds launched over five years, they have battle tested their infrastructure over booms and busts, over crises, over.
Havings, over four kings.
This is not normal for the ETF world, and we think the other ETF providers have a lot to learn, and I'm sure they are and they will as we go through these different kinds of experiences and the end they have economies of scale, believe it or not that have enabled us to drive down our fees.
This way.
We have more economies of scale because of the infrastructure that twenty one shares have built out.
So that's the first. The second is research.
Both of us give our research away for free. Our research started in two twenty fourteen. We were trying to understand the technology, and then when Chris Berniski took over, we fast forwarded into understanding bitcoin is money and then a new asset class. So we have been taking our clients' perspective. Clients, anyone who wants to read our research, this journey with us through deep, deep research, and it's getting deeper under Yassin's leadership.
So that's the second. And then the third, and this one is not to.
Be underestimated us, especially when it comes to the wirehouses like the Morgan Stanley's, the merri Lynch, the ubs Wells Fargo. Our salesforce, our distributor, Resolute, has had our ETF specials specialists have had to understand bitcoin since we struck our partnership in twenty sixteen.
I had a funny story.
Rebecca Burke, who's our most senior ETF specialist, joked with me the other day.
She said, do you know when I was coming to interview to I looked up what is bitcoin?
And we all laughed about it because now she not only understands it, she believes in it. Her conviction is how she's able to share that message and hold client's hands when bitcoin goes through some of the volatility that we see it go through regularly. So I think those three. We have the infrastructure and operations. We have the research, deep research, and we've been doing it longer than anyone else.
And three we have a support team a sales team that I don't think anyone else out there can beat because we've been doing it together for seven years already, and the same for twenty one shares. More on the institutional side, they have been working with their clients for five years.
I want to remind everybody we are, of course on X basis. I'm Carol Master of Bloomberg TV and Radio. I'm talking with Kathy Wood ourc invest founder CEO CIO on a day when the SEC approves bitcoin spot.
You're hearing a conversation that Carol Masser is having with Kathy Wood, the CEO, CIO and founder of ARC Invest, talking all about the news today that the US regulators have approved an ETF that invests directly in bitcoin. Let's go back to that conversation.
Listing some of the concerns that could happen.
One of the things we wondered about Kathy, and I'm curious, you know, I'm thinking people who are listening to this, what is the recourse if a custodian who holds the keys to bitcoin loses them, you know, are they're hacked?
What's the investor recourse?
You know what we have with us on those calls of Felia and Haney, who are the founders of twenty one shares this you're talking about infrastructure operations.
This is what I'm talking about. May I open up the floor to them?
Aphelia, you want to come in on that. You are partnership.
You know, it's a partnership with you at our absolutely what's your thought on that in terms of concerns that if something happens, if it is hacked, what's the investor recourse?
So people are completely right to be concerned. This is the whole point. This is not like stocks and bonds. This requires a very different level of infrastructure, and so I think the first step in this discussion is very clearly prevention. You need to build as robust of a setup as possible, and you need to battle test it. So we've been battle testing our implementations with custodians, our technical infrastructure and the way in which we safeguard assets
for five years. That's the entire point. You can't treat this like any other asset in the world. It's a it's a bearer asset, and it's held in a very technical way. So one of the things that we do is we obviously we use a concept called cold storage. That means is that these assets are held offline in wallets that have never been brought into the Internet, so you've never used them before, which means that they are the information related to the private key doesn't exist on
the Internet. It's sort of the you can think of it as the diametric opposite of cloud storage. You essentially end up with a private key that's been charted, so it's been split into multiple pieces, and you need to
bring multiple pieces online at the same time. Those pieces are held in vaults that are geographically distributed in order to control access to these products, and then we obviously have a really robust set of controls around that in terms of how you initiate transfers and how you actually move assets, because the most dangerous part of custody is actually very much the point at which you access it right.
Very frequently, you know, when people say, oh, somebody took over my exchange account, the underlying wallet's not being hacked. What's actually happening is that their security and access protocols are being compromised in some way not dissimilar from certain
social media issues which might have happened yesterday. And so it's really important how you actually secure these assets and why you need to go with a provider that's actually going has a track record of doing this and knows what they're doing through a variety of market conditions, because this is actually a very very technical space.
I appreciate that Ophilias Knightder co founder president of twenty one.
Years and of course offering up the Bitcoin ETF with our investments. Kathy One thing I also think is concerns about the price of bitcoin, the volatility. The last three full year returns were gains of three hundred and five percent twenty twenty up another sixty twenty one, followed by a loss of sixty four twenty twenty two. It's it's a market that can move around. We saw a little bit of a pop a bitcoin. Will volatility continue to be a risk or something that investors have to be
very much aware of? And I'm curious, what is your price forecast at this point now that you've got the SEC approval for bitcoin?
Sure, a couple of things.
So the volatility, this again is natural for disruptive innovation that is really going taking market share in any market. So it's it's normal, Carol. You've seen from our funs how how disruptive innovation can be affected by exogitiveness factors that don't have anything to do with the share they're actually gaining. In fact, we know that during tough time, innovation gains more traction because it's better, cheaper, faster, more productive, and so forth. And this and you saw this during
the regional bank crisis. The regional banks imploded, the KRRY index imploded, we saw bankruptcies and bitcoin shot up forty percent.
Why it's a flight to safety.
It is not it will not be a victim of counter of counterparty risk the way the banks will. So it's it's actually as time goes on and we go through more and more crises, and it seems the way government spending and monetary policies go, you know that that is not going to change. I think bitcoin is going to prove it's worth you know, one in terms of price, and then I'd like to just talk about fees because
that's so context. Yes, so our price target are our bull price target, and I would say institution tuitional money moving in makes our bull price target more likely. Now is one point five million dollars in twenty thirty And you can see in Big Ideas, our big ideas from last year ar at ark dash Invest ourdash invest dot com how we the building blocks for that number, right, and institutional is one of the biggest reasons. In terms of fees, you'll notice twenty one that's a very special number.
First of all, those are our partners twenty one year, but also twenty one million units, our twenty one million bitcoin will that is the total number that will be printed or minted right there. It will not go past twenty one million. This is called this is called a rules based monetary system. And so that fee we thought that was clever and we were going to start out with that one, but we knew what was going to happen, so we ended up there. But I want to bring
back something I mentioned other before. We already have the economies of scale that others do not because of our partner twenty one shares, and so we've been able to negotiate down service provider fees in a way that we would not have been able to if we had done this by ourselves. And the other thing I want to emphasize we are not looking to maximize profits with this.
We are looking at bitcoin as a public good. It is a financial super highway and we want to increase the access to bitcoin, and one of the ways to do that is this low fee product. We have other actively managed strategies where we can do more on the profitability side, right, It's not our objective here, Kathy.
Just one last question and that I'm glad we got that thirty seconds is to wrap up. I mean, what does success look for you guys in a year from now with this particular product.
Well, I think I think we will be a part of the success of bitcoin broadly. I think this opens a new chapter for bitcoin, and I would like to believe we would we will be within the top top three or two top providers of bitcoin through this Bitcoin ETF.
All right, Just lastly, as you know, I like to squeeze and stuff fifteen seconds. Is there new cryptocurrent products ETFs that might come out from you guys as well in the near future.
Well, we already put with twenty one shares out five futures products. Those are right strategy. One last thing I'd like like to I'd like to.
Honor all of those who have toiled to make bitcoin happen through this ETF.
I want to reassure the community, the bitcoin community.
That.
Self custody, self custody and an ETF are not mutually exclusive. We want to see this ecosystem continue to decentralize, but we want to bring billions of people into the ecosystem. And this is why twenty one basis points ARKB.
Kathy, I so appreciate you including me on this platform. Kathy, would arcinvest founder CEO CIO.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us Live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or wants us Live on YouTube.
All right, everybody, So a recent story from our pre and on here at Bloomberg on how the demise of San Francisco's has been greatly exaggerated. She talked about kind of walking around and things weren't as bad as everybody's been talking about. She also noted that in the twelve months ending July twenty twenty three, the city actually gained forty nine hundred residents after also seeing some slight growth in the prior year, according to some new data that was out.
Yeah, some actually good data though, was you know, it's not just anecdotal, based on her experience there, believing in this city. Our next guest, who acquired the Transamerica Pyramid Center in San Francisco for six hundred and fifty million dollars at the height of the pandemic. Back with us. We got Michael Schave, chairman and CEO of Cheveaux, a real estate owner, investor, and developer of unique and innovative luxury and landmark properties. Michael, good to have you back
with us. How are you, thank you? Happy New Year, Happy New Year. So let's take a step back and just talk about your history in San Francisco and how it came about that you found yourself at you know, the height of the pandemic acquiring such an iconic building in the city.
You know, since my business is really focused on owning, operating super prime real estate, when the opportunity came about to acquire the Pyramid, it was not really a matter of time having these type of opportunities at once in a lifetime. I'm the second owner of the property, after the original owner of trans America, which built the building as their headquarters. But when you buy building for you know, fifty years or not for five years, you're not really
concerned about the little bumps in the market. You know. Everybody sees black when when it's dark, and they see light when it's light, and that's really not the time to buy real estate. I took a quite a large bed, not only on San Francisco, San Francisco, Chicago, Miami, LA. All through COVID. We bought around five billion dollars of real estate through COVID and a lot of office buildings went. There was a notion that people are never going to
come back to work. Obviously, that was another demise that was well, it was so.
Confident that you thought, well, you know what, that's not exactly going to happen. Or is the case that you just bought top tier properties that you know that for the folks who were coming back to work, that's where they were going to want to be.
I think you hit you hit both nails on the head. But the first notion is that that people are not meant to be alone. When you walk here to the Bloomberg's offices, I mean pretty cool stuff, right, cool stuff, and everybody's together, and everybody's sitting together and want to be together. The idea of working from home in your pajamas on zoom is not sustainable, and that was that
was my initial bet. The San Francisco idea was again a city that took a big hit through COVID because of you know, tech issues that these are the first companies that work from home. But in San Francisco is a resilient city. It's a city that constantly reinvents itself and the Boom and AI right now is unbelievable.
It's one you know, one thing I was gonna think about, tim because I know we've had a lot of conversations about work from home. If you talk to a lot of the West Coast tech companies, they're like, we were already working from home. We were already flexible with how we were. So I almost wonder that maybe the impact wasn't going to be as strong. I don't know.
Again, there was there was a mental impact because it was it became not just a tech thing. It was there was a there was a conversation that offices is absolute right, and and that obviously is was and ended up being nonsense. And we're seeing today, I mean, our New York offices on Fifth Avenue are fully occupied. The Pyramid is renting at two and a half times the
rent that it rented pre COVID. So not only people are coming back, you know, we've obviously were just completing a four hundred million dollars renovation there.
Who is coming back?
What type of tenants, VC's financial services, law firms. You're seeing really the gamut, but the pyramids specifically, these are leaders of the industry, right, It's a building that was built for for kind of built for the future, right, and that that's the type of tenants that that we're getting there. But it's also now become the the you know, the center of San Francisco. This is what San Francisco believes is going to be the next thing that's going
to rejuvenate downtown. And when you walk the streets, I believe you were saying, you walk the streets of San Francisco, it feels great. You feel the energy. I just came back a week and a half ago. You feel the energy on the street. That's something that obviously, through COVID didn't exist.
Where in your portfolio around the country, are you seeing the highest vacancy.
Rates again, it's it's a it's a it's not a fair question because we have really high occumvicies because we only own trophy acids, and the trophy acid category, you know, vacancy rates are quite low. I mean, if you look at San Francisco alone, right, vacancy rates and in trophy office buildings are seven percent, while the entire market is in the thirties.
So in New York has similar issues with men and Marst buildings, every mark and I think I I.
You know, when we spoke last I said, you know, there's this notion of converting, converting bad office buildings to to residences. It's like taking you know, I remember I told you it's like taking bad milk and making milkshake out of it. It's still going to be sour milkshake. It's never gonna work.
So what makes an office good in twenty twenty four, Because it's not the world of twenty nineteen anymore, there is this hybrid work environment. Even if you have a return to the office, you're still doing a lot of zooms, you're still doing a lot of teleconferencing. Not everybody's going to be in your meeting. What's different about an office space in twenty twenty four.
Let's start by the fact that you're asking the question that's already what's different. The difference is that now we're actually thinking about our office. When you know, five years ago, before COVID, nobody would never ask me, what's the new thing about office? Why do people come to work? It
was just natural. Let's put people like like, you know, like a little fish in a cubicle, and that was basically Now we understand the same thing that we've been doing in the residential side and the commercial side that people actually care about where they work. Your lifestyle at your office shouldn't be worse than it is at your home.
That's kind of what we've been doing. So what we've been focused on doing over the last decade is really transforming the office space to be as similar as it can to your home environment as far as services, as far as you know in the environment, the air, the luxury, the services. If you again, your office is a great example because it's where people come to collaborate. So you have the spaces where people can collaborate, open space, you
have the closed offices where they consume. But there these are flexible spaces. It's not one size fits all, which was the traditional office kind of pre COVID.
Hey, Michael, one thing I wonder do you think we talk a lot about the rate environment. Obviously, what the Fed's gonna do, What are your expectations in terms of rates? And obviously a lower rate environment is good for folks in the real estate world. So how are you thinking about it and how it might shape some of the activities you do here in twenty twenty.
Four, So again I think that, as some of your previous speakers said before, I think there's obviously an expectation that that rates are going to go down. I'm looking for the crystal ball here at the Bloomberg headquarters of how much they're going to go down.
Show me where you find the crystal ball.
I don't know.
I'm asking you in this way slept away a central bank safe.
But but I think that that there's definitely a consensus that they are going to go down. How much we don't We don't know yet.
Yeah, but that's shape what you do this year.
Well, look, I think from from our point of view, because you know we part of what we do is we're partners with with a lot of the German state pension fund insurance companies. Yeah, and we buy long term real estate. We'll buy in cash, we'll buy with debt. Obviously with that would rather buy real estate with debt if if the debt markets allow it. But were first
and foremost focused on finding the right trophy assets. So that's why so when I bought the Trans America Pyramid, it was you know, in the midst of COVID, we still ended up buying it. So so interest rates are going to you know, are going to move the market right, and I think what the more important thing is that they're going to open the debt markets which were fairly you know, static over the last three years.
Us talk to us about New York. You've got a property right six eighty fifth Fifth Avenue here in New York.
We got so in New York again, like in most markets, we developed high end residential, the Mandarin Oriental Residences that was just completed. We just opened an amazing private restaurant with Danielle Blued. There lots of fun at the rooftop loft Danielle. He just opened Cafe Blued, which is also amazing. We're opening one in Beverly Hills with him. So that property is really geared to making people's lives better. What
does that mean? You're buying an apartment at the Manden Residences and you don't even bring your toothbrush because Mandarin will give you everything from your flippers, from your slippers to the rope to the toothbrush. And then we have our office portfolio here. You know, we own seven eleven Fifth Avenue. We own the Amanta New York five point thirty Broadway office buildings that we have, you know, severely kind of upgraded and seven eleven Fifth Avenue again fully occupied building today.
Cork Club just came in there, Raffles just came in there. So really, you know, Alan and Company, one of one of the folks in your world, are headquartered there. So we've created really an environment of a high end boutique office building designed by Peter Reno, which is fully occupied in the market that again is not on averages, is not showing those returns.
Let's crease something in my producer is going to have a heart attack. But you got fifteen twenty seconds. Is the idea of transforming office into residential? Can it be done?
Or is that like very very selective. It has to have the building has to have the right bones, in the right location, the right ceiling heights, in the right windows.
You were quick and you save Paul's heart.
Thank you so much.
Michael Schaveau, Chairman and CEO of Chaveau real Estate, owner, investor, developer of innovative, luxury.
And landmark properties.
Joining us right here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio.
This is Bloemoo.
Marco a journal Now about you let me drive, Oh no, no, no, no drive, honey, please, I'll do the gravel.
Great, I want to drive.
It's a good question.
This is the Drive to the Clothes dot com. Think well by run Janda Don on Bloomberg Radio.
All right, everybody.
Something we talked about at the end of twenty twenty three the rally in emerging markets ex China. The group up seventeen percent in twenty twenty three at in China, and the game was only seven percent as measure measured excuse me, by the MSCI indexes. So it's interesting. We know China was certainly a drag on the global economy and also certainly on the investment landscape.
Well, A Drive to the closed guest has certainly has some thoughts on emerging markets. Alison Shimada is senior portfolio manager and head of Total Emerging Markets team at all Spring Global Investments. Alison joins us on Zoom from San Francisco. Allison, good to have you with us this afternoon. As Carol noted, not all emerging markets are created equal. How's the outlook for the category in twenty four and where do you think investors this year specifically should be putting their money?
Well, thank you, Carolyn. Sev for having me. I think there are very solid opportunities in the e M. I think it has, you know, really been ignored for quite some time, and I think in three respects. Number one is that it's somewhat under owned by investors globally. Number two, it's underappreciated for all the opportunities we see in individual countries. And number three is that's really undervalued versus particularly the US SO only selling it about eleven point seven times
PE and one point six times price to book. So you know, we see opportunities here at the beginning of the year. You know, we particularly look at growth and income, and we see a lot of dividends that can be paid. We see strong companies in terms of the areas we're focusing on. Really, as you mentioned countries ex China are interesting to US, India, Brazil, South Korea, Taiwan, there are a lot of quite a few of the larger companies are quite promising.
Is hey.
One thing I do want to ask you, and we appreciate you laying out where you do find interesting opportunities, but I do want to talk about China because our folks and our team have been talking about how China is the contrarian trade of twenty twenty four. I mean people don't like it. You know, when we talk to people, they're like, no, we don't want to commit new money.
And to me, you know, when everybody's running from something and something's been an area of the investment landscape, global investment landscape has been beat up, to me, maybe there is some opportunity then, so.
I totally agree with you. Yeah, no, that is absolutely true. We have been investing in China for the better part of twenty five years, many of us on this team and have seen it since it opened. And you know, I think this that there have been many crises in China. However, I think that there is with selectivity and proper stock selection and the history of understanding these companies and the policy,
one can properly invest in China. I don't think it's to be entirely avoided, but I think you need to be selective and until we understand the greater, the intermedia term, the longer term objectives of the country, it is somewhat of a trading opportunity, but we certainly have we are underway China, but we do have quite a few holdings in China. And not only in the industrial space, but in the financial space and somewhat limited to the in the consumer space as well.
What do you think is the biggest risk in China right now and do you think that the country can get beyond that?
Yeah.
I think that one of the biggest risks is just not doing enough and not staying the course in terms of reopening and supporting industry.
Do you mean not doing enough in terms of government support?
Yeah. I think that they have done some policy that has been supportive, but it's been here and there, unlike the US with the inflation reduct very early on. I think that was a very effective policy because we got it out there, started working on it, and now you see some very positive effects of that. I think China has hesitated a bit on policy and had hoped that they could just you know, make it through the difficulties
of the property industry. But it's a very large scale and I think that that has to be addressed, and I think that the markets are lacking confidence. It's really a sentiment issue. I think that the overall the country is okay. Policy worth regards to property will take some time. It's just it's going to take a lot of time.
Do you think we get back to a Do we get to a point where, I mean, the S and P five hundred has been an incredible force over the last decade or so?
Absolutely? Yeah.
Do we get to a point where emerging markets start to hold a candle? I mean, even at seventeen percent, if you exclude China, it underperformed. Emerging markets underperformed the S and P five hundred last year. Again, do we get to a point where the emerging markets as a whole outperform large caps in the US?
I really hope so in over the next few years. And the reason I think so is for the three reasons that I stated earlier on. I do think that the forty five percent discount of emerging markets overall to DM is too big, and you know, everything is like a rubber band, it eventually kind of goes back the other direction. I think it's purely a sentiment issue. There's a very strong home market bias on the US. People do not want to give up on it despite valuations
high valuations, and they're just hesitant to go overseas. But I think if the dollar starts to roll over, which I think, you know, it peaks in October, right, that that's going to be a count you know that is going to the minute the dollar rolls over, it's going to flash a green sign and people will have to look for other forms of returns in other places. And it's not necessarily China, but it could be in other countries in em Hey.
Listen, just get about a minute left and you actually had you know, shared with our producer Paul some names that you find interesting. Just pick one that you think investors, global investors should have on their radar.
Yeah.
I think Bijoj Auto is a very interesting name. It's India, you know, the largest two wheeler and three wheeler producer in India and they have had very strong earnings. It's a great group, an industrial group bag and I think that it's a play on the rural space in India as well. But the overall economy of India is a multi year growth story, as I think most investors understand now.
But we really see it as a very strong player in the market and has a three percent divit in yield as well, so we really.
We get to buy it in a fund, right because there's no ADR here in the United States?
Correct? Correct? Yes, many of these names, and you know it's true for India overall, right, a lot of have ADRs, but there are some of the larger names, for instance, the banks or the enterprise software enterprise hardware software companies they do have they do have US listed.
Since it's refreshing to talk about emerging markets, I feel like a few years back, and you know, whether it was a Mark Mobis or somebody, you would just talk about it constantly. It kind of took a back seat as we've really focused only totally take some of the runs right that we've seen in like US big caps and the indexing. Allison Shamada, thank you so much, Senior portfolio manager, head of the Total Emerging Markets team over at all Spring Global Investments on zoom in San Francisco.
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