Rivian’s IPO Is Ultimate Validation of Tesla

You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on the Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg clovel News. Alright, let's get back to uh, some of what we're seeing in the world of COVID and vaccines. The Biden administration we mentioned offering drug manufacturers. We're talking about fives or Maderna UH funding to expand annual production domestic production, specifically of Messenger RNA vaccines by a billion at the b a billion doses

by the second half of next year. That's significant. That's government support, right, very significant. I mean you look to doses is what we're supposed to get, at least for our first set of doses. But if you think about each American needing three, uh, then that covers each American and ongoing perhaps. Yeah, well that's the question, right, how many boosters are we going to need? Yeah? And meantime, we've got new infections in Germany rising to a record

and death. Let's just get to it though our deli check on COVID. Let's bring a pediatrician. Dr Peter Antal. He's chief medical officer at the Behavioral Health Solution Company. It's specifically geared for kids, teens, their families. He joins us on the phone in South Lake Tahoe. Dr Antal, Nice to have you here with us. How are you, thanks, Carol. It's it's great to be here, and I'm doing great well, great, sure, thanks for bringing me on. Well, it's great to have

you here. Not doing so great though, are certain areas of the world when it comes to COVID. We're still, you know, keeping an eye on kids. We're seeing it rollout for certain kids here in New York City and elsewhere. Um, how do you see what's going on with COVID, especially

with the population you deal with, which is a younger population. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know, we we we we don't tend to focus on children when we're talking about COVID because they don't tend to get usually as sick as as older adults do unless they have a chronic condition. Um. But but you know, children are spreaders of disease, and uh, children still do get COVID, they still do get hospitalized. And I think the last number I saw, they've been sediatric

deaths due to COVID since the pandemic began. So it's still a serious issue. I think that you know, we're we're excited that the vaccines are now being tested and proven to be effective and safe down to at least for the Fiser vaccine, now down to age five, so it gives us an opportunity to try to better protect the children. It is a serious issue. It's also can

be very disruptive to people's lives. And I'm speaking as a parent of a nearly three year old who's home from nursery school right now because school is canceled until at least Friday, because one of the parents of one of the kids in my son's class has a breakthrough case. And I wonder, we don't know if anyone else has COVID, and likely they don't, fortunately, and everybody's healthy, but it certainly is disruptive to a lot of families out there

right now. I'm I'm wondering, dr antal when we can expect to have vaccines available for the youngest in our population, those under the age of five. You know, it's a good question, and it's it's hard to put a timeline on that, you know, I think both are all of the vaccine manufacturers, of course, started with with adults and then are marching down in in age groups and testing serially.

Um so, the testing, uh is ongoing. I think we should expect vaccine availability down to at least age six months sometime and I would hope and then in the next year or so. Okay, well that's not bad. Well, and I'm gonna let you play with this tim because I feel like you've got a younger one. I've got an older one. She's vaccinated, she can get her boosters

and things like that. Um well, since around top of mind for you especially, it's it's it's basically like, this is our life right now, and we're choosing again not to fly with our son to see family, and for the second year in a row, we haven't been back to visit my parents in California. We have been able to see them, but you know, he hasn't been there since gosh twenty Yeah, and I just wonder if this is I turned to my wife the other day and said, this is our life, for the for the for this

is like how we're thinking about things now. I mean, this is kind of the new normal right now, and I'm wondering, uh dr ante if it goes back to what we had before, not being concerned about this. Yeah, well, you know, I think what we don't know right now is what what what's the future going to look like?

You know, is is COVID gonna eventually be conquered and go away or are we just gonna have to learn to live with it and have to get you know, periodic vaccines maybe every few years, uh, something analogous to what we do with influenza those, although those are recommended of course yearly. Um, we just don't know, and it's that that uncertain is just so challenging. You know. It

feels as though we've we've made progress. We're back out and going to restaurants and things like this, many of us, but we're still not quite there, and I think, you know, I want to turn it to the impact on children. You know, imagine, if you're an eight year old, a quarter of your life has been in the age of COVID. Yeah, um, the impact on their development, the impact on their mental health,

um is really substantial. Well because a survey a Lurry Children's it said, uh of parents are worried about their child's mental mental health right now. Yeah. A colleague of mine, I remember a few months ago and I'm like, how you doing? And hes a young child, and he's like, I've got a young child. I think, you know, it's probably depressed because I can't play with friends, can't go outside, can't do anything, and how do you You know, you definitely have to see get some help because this is

just a really tough on kids. You do. But at the same time, we do have vaccines available for those kids ages five and up. And I've seen just a sea change with my friends with kids those ages who have been able to get their kids vaccinated. They are so grateful. Right, it's a comfort level. It's just like the rest of us. There's some stress that's taken off that you can be out in the world. Um. Dr Peter Antal, Thank you so much, pediatrician, chief medical officer

at bright Line. On the phone from South Wake, Tahoe, California. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. So perhaps a sign of Tesla's success. We're going to get into that in just a moment of validation of the e V world in a company though with no sales worth a hundred and fifty billion dollars, that is really an automotive which shout out of the ip O gate just last

week doubled in value before dipping back. Just to hair, It's still up, Tim, since becoming a publicly held company billion dollars in market cap, fewer than one hundred of these vehicles sold so far, Joel, would Van be the company that it is today without that investment from Amazon, However, Editor Bloomberg Business Week, along with Matt Winkler, who is of course editor in chief Amritus here at Bloomberg News. Uh,

the answer to that is a definite no. Um. There was one company that basically has has laid an appetite for electric vehicles, not only in the US, but globally, and that company is Tesla, right, Matt, correct? So can you talk about the assignment was let's talk about Rivian Ribvians going public. This other company ten years ago went public.

How did they compare when they went public? Man, So, Joel, you are actually the person to answer your own question, but I'll do it for you because you said, you know, I think this piece really belongs in the technology section of Bloomberg Business Week, And I think by that you meant really what this is about more than anything else, It's less about cars per se and more about technology.

And what Tesla is about is that back in two thousand ten when it went public, uh, it was promising something that was completely absent from the automotive industry, and that is the zero mission vehicle. And this is at a time when not a lot of people yet have

truly appreciated the existential threat of climate change. The thing that happened was that Tesla turned out to be a great product from the get go, and that people who bought the Model US for example, yours truly included a long time ago two thousand fourteen, realized it was every bit as competitive, if you like, and comfortable and efficient in fact, some ways much more so than an internal

combustion engine. And Tesla to answer Joel's question with a fact, Teslas sold four hundred times four hundred times the average annual growth of the automotive industry in a ten year period. Think about that four hundred times now when you think that's like eyeballs. Okay, we all get excited about eyeballs these days. In technology, Tesla was able to create something and that of course paved the way for Ribbyan and these other companies. And that's why Ribban has the valuation

that it has. Okay, but this is no easy feet and it's something that Elon Musk tweeted about. He tweeted, when Ribbian when public, I hope they're able to achieve high production and break even cash flow. There have been hundreds of automotive startups, both electric and combustion, but Tesla is the only American car maker to reach high volume production and positive cash flow in the past one years.

How does Rivian do this? Well, there's someone called Jeff Bezos for one thing, and Amazon, and uh, that's a pretty formidable Uh if you like backer big shareholder, biggest shareholder, and that is something that makes Ribban very different from Tesla when it started. You're absolutely right, or he's absolutely right that Musk turns out to be a relative miser

by comparison to ribbyan um in the spending of money. Uh. Certainly in the two years before it went public, Ribban has spent far more money, uh Tesla spent of what Rivian spent. Having said that, though the world's changed, and so the betting is that because the world's changed, and because Amazon has already ordered a hundred thousand van, and there's some thinking here that vans are really an important part of the market that people haven't thought about until

Rivan came along. And Rivan is going to benefit from all kinds of commercial logistics operators. It's not just Amazon are going to embrace the electric van, uh, and they first move her advantage in that right, they could be for sure. I mean, you know, that's where they are right now, and that partly explains why they're where they are.

But coming back to Musk's point, if you're an investor and you're a shareholder, you have to take seriously what he's saying, because it's true in a hundred years, whether you're looking at internal combustion engines or electric Uh. No one has been able to get the kind of break even cash flow performance that Tesla has, and that makes Tesla, you know, stand out for sure. One thing I wanted to ask you what's missing Cathy Wood? And I know you've covered her a lot. You've talked to her a lot.

I've talked to her a lot. We've talked to her a lot. Um she didn't invest in Rivan, did she know? Right? And we did catch up with her um somewhat belatedly right after the ribby and I p O. And what we really wanted to know was has she changed her

view in any way? Uh? In her view, of course, is she's an unabashed UH supporter of Tesla, remains so and believes that Tesla, for example, has billions of miles if you like, of memory that is incorporated in the Tesla ecosystem that no other EV maker has and that is a huge advantage when we get to things like automotive uh self driving vehicles, that Tesla has a huge advantage over everyone. And she hasn't changed her view there, you know, Matt, As long as we're we've got our

investor hat on here. The one that that the question I was wanted to ask you is And this was surprising because I think people forget about it when Tesla went pub lick did it have products? Because Rivian's gone in public and really doesn't have much of anything to show yet. Yeah, Tesla actually in two thousand and ten had the roadster, and the roadster had been around for many years actually and was written up by the Arbiters of Automotive Excellence as an excellent vehicle even though it

was a roadster. So there was a lot of evidence to suggest that this electric vehicle that Tesla had created was a standout, and of course that paved the way for the models in two thousand UM twelve. So take away from Rivian and it's blockbuster, IPA, Tesla, You're for real? Is that kind of the takeaway? Year? Uh? If you asked Cathy would she would say? Yes, everything, um that you see from Tesla is definitely real, and only more so than it's only gonna it's only going to increase

in just twenty seconds or thursdays. What does it mean for Rivian then, well, you know at this point it's almost rising tide lifts soul boats, um We're not just talking about Ribby. And there's Lucid, which is another highly brod. Look, here's the thing, here's the takeaway. More than two thirds of the top automakers in the world top ten, are now electric. Think about that. That was improbable, if not impossible, a year ago to say that's a short time That's

a short time frame for such a big difference. The message investors are setting sending is evs are here to stay in there the future, and what are we talking about every day? Grifvian Tesla, Matt, thank you so much, really appreciate Matt Winkler. He's editor in chief Emeritus at Bloomberg News. Check him out at Bloomberg dot com. Joel Webber, thank you so much. This story in the upcoming issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. Joe, of course, editor of

Bloomberg Business Week. That new issue out tomorrow newsstands online and oways on the Bloomberg terminal. You are listening to Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. So looking forward to this next guest. He and I email

back and forth. Helas sends me thought thoughtful notes. Uh. And when it comes to the economy and some of the big trends that are going on, he's got a research note doubt and it's entitled It's not the economy Stupid, it is vulnerability. Not my words, they are the words of Peter Atwater. He's adjunct professor of economics. That William and Mary. He's back with us on the phone in Pennsylvania. Peter, how are you. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back.

So listen. It's great to have you back because Peter, you know you listen to us. As I said, you send notes and thoughts and observations. We are all talking a lot about inflation and supply shortages. The Bloomberg New Economy Forum is underway in Singapore. That is certainly top of mine on a global level. Um, whether it's tight labor markets, we see strong demand. There's like this really weird though disconnect because we keep talking about consumer sentiment.

Everybody is so downtrodden. Um, what is your take on all of this? What's really important? So I think what's happened is that in the last year we've awakened to vulnerability and vulnerability A lot of people talk about it, you know, burn a Brown and folks think about it in a different way than I do. And I think of it in terms of vulnerability is the opposite of confidence, that when we don't have certainty, when we don't have control in our lives, we somehow feel threatened. Nowhere was

that clear than with the pandemic last spring. But what we've seen since then has been this ebbing and flowing of vulnerability. And you know, you mentioned inflation and supply chain shortages, and that's that's scarcity. You know that, that's how we interpret both of them psychologically. And so I think that below the surface of these record markets is really growing anxiety that things are not as certain as we like them to be, and we're not quite sure

what to do. So what is the connection between that vulnerability that you write about, lack of childcare, the ongoing pandemic. How does that manifest in a lack of spending or

in consumer activity? What's the connection there? So I think that you have to look at it by economic strata, because you know, when I when I wrote about the k shaped recovery last year, it was about this divide in in confidence and ability, and so what you're seeing for those who do feel confident that there is, you know, almost this sense of unlimitedness in terms of what they can afford and what they can spend and what they

are spending and spending on. But as you deep dig down deeper into the into different parts of the economy, you begin to realize that wage growth isn't keeping up and that people are now being forced to make real choices between what they can afford. You know, what do they need versus what do they want? So wait, Peter, So somebody at comes say wait a minute, Peter Atwater. You know, everybody keeps talking about we're paying workers more and more they're doing okay. We've also done the stories

that it's not keeping up with inflation. So I mean, what is your what is your pushback against that that? You know, we do the stories on Wall Street about bonuses going up and you know, people jumping firms, Um, how do we make sense of that? So I think firms have to be really careful in trying to address what they think the problem is through money, because what's becoming very clear as I talked to businesses and business

owners as you dig deeper. What they're finding is that the thing's employees need go beyond just more you know, higher wages. I mean, if you if you look at the strikes that are going on. Yes, wages are a part of it, but there's a much greater sense of working conditions. And you know, what do we do about child care? And you know, firms that didn't respond to the vulnerability that employees were feeling last year are really taking it in the shorts now are there? Is this

a firm level approach though? Does it? Does it? Is that the most effective way to tackle it? Because you have Democrats in Washington saying this is the type of stuff we need to write into legislation. Yeah. I I'm a believer that when it comes to vulnerability, proximity matters. You know, every crisis is local, and so policy makers want to solve these problems with broad brushes. But whether you're Republican or Democrat, the issue is much more localized.

And so I would much rather see you know, whether it's local communities or or businesses themselves, be given the tools to deal with this versus some sort of a top down approach. The top town takes too long, it tends to be too broad in its approach, and honestly, when we feel vulnerable, Washington feels very abstract to us. It's hard to gain a sense of control when when power is far away from you. Peter, you write, the great reassessment is not only a reflection, well, let me

go back. Traumatic events also foster reconsideration for what matters and how with whom we wish to spend what we view as increasingly precious time. Been there, that's my own personal assessment. You go on to say, the great reassessment is not only a reflection of that, but a reflection of the fact that we never go back to before after trauma. Our actions are framed our experience, and we move forward looking to eliminate the vulnerability we've experienced. We

must create new norms, routines, and habits. Will you say, then, go as far as as as a society and certainly as a professional corporate society. We're not facing up to that yet. We I feel like we see it with the tug between hybrid not hybrid, going back to the office not going back, you know, corporate executives saying, oh yeah, we're cool, We're all in on you know, flexibility, and

yet behind the scenes they're not UM. Yeah. So so I really believe that when we don't go back to what was, And so I think business leaders who are expecting employees to go back are are missing a very significant part of this, which is one, you know, the longer people are out, the fewer employees will actually come back. Just statistically, you know, at this point you're lucky if

se your folks come back just based on turnover. But but I think that the bigger concern here is that companies are not hearing the vulnerabilities that people that employees have experienced in the last year, and so they need to be listening for where do employees feel like they don't have control today, whether it's in their workplace or at home, and what do they still think is uncertain

as far as the work environment. With us is Peter Atwater, Adjunct Professor of Economics, Everet William and Mary still with us on the phone in Pennsylvania. So, Peter, you're talking about UM recognizing how the vulnerability that's out there and what that is doing to individuals people's confidence. And I do wonder what's the significance of the world of companies not facing up to that we're not going to go back to life as it was before our trauma, which

was the pandemic. And I guess what I'm getting to And my producers know this really well. Like when we're booking a guest or somebody says something, it's like, tell me why I care? Tell me why as a human I care? Why is an investor I care about this? You care about this because vulnerability is as much a cognitive condition as it is anything else. So your employees are preoccupied. They're worried about something that happening in their life,

not what is driving your business. Um And I think for employers, they need to recognize that that has a real impact on your on their bottom line. That and I know from experience, you know, working with managers who have found that, you know, it's it's the car trouble that that an employee faces that is what is making it difficult for them to show up on work and to pay attention at work because they're worried about that or the child care or these these things that seemingly

feel minor to many corporate leaders. Is what is preoccupying their employees day in and day out. Are the economic incentives though aligned for for companies on a broad level to take those concerns seriously. And I'm talking about I'm not talking about people who our salaried and have four oh one case. I'm talking about people who work in hourly possessions and you probably work during the pandemic. Absolutely, yeah.

I I think you're seeing this in healthcare where where nurses and emergency room doctors are saying I've had enough, and so you're you're seeing people make deliberate um life choices, career choices that have significant ripple on effects to to

the rest of society. And I think that you know, where there has been the greatest grievances today on the employee front are those who have experienced the pandemic outside of the home, those who stood for a living, and I think that increasingly they feel unheard, having provided in many cases heroic help, you know, in health and food, in transportation, and are wondering to what end. So what's interesting too, and it's you know, you say um about

especially Peter in the healthcare area. We talked with dry Mona Abos yesterday. She's the CEO of an Incredible Health and she works with the nursing industry and helping healthcare systems get access to the nurse care that they need, and talked about the toll and has taken on these individuals UH and how there's a real shortage of nurses

at this point. So as we look forward and we try to figure out what two looks like if we underestimate the impact of individuals feeling vulnerable UH and what that means in terms of productivity and economic growth, it sounds like we are very much at risk of seeing a potential slowdown or missing out on signs of a policy mistake by missing something like this, that will play into and I'm not I'm not trying to be so cold, but we'll play into the economic statistics that will, you know,

bear out maybe later next year. Yeah. I think that's white, particularly because in many aces, these are stacked vulnerabilities. And on the one hand, you have those who have worked outside of the home, you know, day in and day out for the past eighteen months. And on the other hand, you have stacked confidence, stacked privileges it were, for those

who have been able to easily navigate the pandemic. And I don't think those I think one of the things the pandemic has created is blindness and a lack of awareness to the condition of those who serve this this amazing deliver it any time, day or night to your doorstep economy. Yeah, that's not to be underestimated. And we're seeing that in the supply chain. You know, it's just one one window into it exists. Just to build on Carol's question, Peter, do you see a fundamental shift on

the other side of the pandemic. I think early on in the pandemic, we felt this sort of unity, uh and in a pre creation for so many of these people, And I'm wondering if that has manifested in higher wages and an appreciation that is manifested in something tangible, and if that sticks on the other side. Yeah, I'm more afraid tim of zero sum thinking developing where increasingly because people are frustrated, they feel that someone's gain has come

at their own expense. Yeah. Uh no. It's certainly something to kind of absolutely layer on as we look at what's going on in the economy and trying to understand. And it's interesting, Peter, considering we've had a lot of conversations with CEOs and leaders who are saying they're paying attention to the stresses on workers um and trying to make sure that they meet their needs. But it sounds like there's a lot of gaps in that. Yeah, I

mean we see that playing out. I think we see that playing out on Wall Street right now, certainly, and we see it with the pushback and we see it particularly with Jane Fraser at City. It's a good point. Absolutely, Peter Atwater, thank you so much. I always give us UM some things to think about. AGECT Professor of Economics Everett william and Mary on the phone from penn Sylvania. Can check him out on Twitter at Peter Underscore at Water.

This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. All Right, everybody, just about nine and a half minutes left in today's trading session. Definitely a risk off trade. We've seen yields back off. Let's get to it with Alan Zaffron back with us founding partner in co CEO and i e Q Capital. He is once again on the phone from

Foster City, California. Alan, how are you well. I'm doing great, But there was a four point one earthquake about twenty miles from me about an hour ago. So we have a little shaken up here on the four. Okay, we're doing fine. Wow, But you know, you're a Californian. I'm a Californian life. It's a factive life. We were used to this stuff, right, Yeah, San Ramon is back on the map, check it out four point one. But we're doing fine. Well, you know, I feel like that's reflective

of what's going on in the market. It's then like we're falling off a cliff or anything. We're actually still kind of near eyes in terms of records on equity averages, that's for sure. But sure, but there's definitely some volatility in the marketplace. You're allan, yeah, no question, But I actually think the markets settling down, and I don't think people are totally focused on it. You You know. Well, here's

here's what I'm saying. You know, the way Gretzky saying, you don't skate to where the puck has been, You scat skate to where it's going. So many inflation inflation Easta's out there worrying inflation is going to be out of control if the tenure Treasury is said at one point six percent, and it's been here for month after month after month, despite everyone worried about inflation. It's telling the inflation probably is temporary. It probably isn't going to

be permanent. And so when you headed the next year, you're gonna see growth slowing and growth gonna be slow because we're gonna get past this rebound from COVID rates being higher, are going to start slowing down growth. You've had a really strong US dollar that slows down growth, particularly the emerging markets and developed markets. China is slowing. All of that slows down this concern about inflation. And

you know what it does. It sets us up for the world we knew before COVID slower growth, the growth stocks, the tech names tend to dominate. Again, we're not contracting. We still can generate profits and the world will be okay. But the world's kind of settling. I think back into that scenario. I don't think we're racing up to three ten your treasury yields, and therefore I just don't think

the market is going to be that disheveled. You know, barring all kinds of exogenous shocks, you can never predict, so you're on trans transitory I do. I'm in the transitory set. I think the combination of youth already having moved up, oil prices moving up, China's conundrum, and a strong dollar all put headwinds, if you will, or pressure on global economic growth going fast enough to create permanence

of inflation at a problematic levels. Problem is, we sit and focus on restaurants and leisure travel and nail salons, and those things might be part of Main Street, but they're actually a very small percentage of Wall Street. That ST five or an index is not dominated by commodity laden enterprises, and so stocks can go up in this world where costs of wages, you know, some of these in restaurants and some of the costs of commodities are going up a bit, but not enough to stop this

stock market. Something else is going to have to break this market. I don't think it's going to be inflation. You do think it's gonna be inflation. But when you look at the price increases of so many different categories right, very broad based in terms of increases, uh, they're pretty significant. You see the numbers alone in a bubble, and it's hard not to be shocked by them. What's the reality of those numbers? Alan, And do they as much as

they've gone up, do they significantly come down? Yeah? Well, the reality is the cost of my Thanksgiving turkey has gone up a lot in the Cranberry sauce. The cost of my trip vacation this December, if I fly, has gone up a lot. But when you look forward, higher energy prices, higher borrowing, you'll China's secular shift down and growth.

That all is gonna weigh on economic growth. And you're already starting to see the p m i s, the purchasing manager indexes that we, or at least economists focus on, they're starting to roll over. And generally inflationary statistics dropped three to six months after the p m I s have crested, and they've already crested. And that's I think why that bond market also is sort of cresting here.

Did No, I don't think it's recessionary because it's just to start in the US, But the US is probably the strongest market for the most part, certainly to develop world. In two thousand twenty two, you're gonna see greater weakness in the Eurozone. That's probably gonna be the weakest major economy. China is clearly slowing, the emerging market is gonna be

pressured by the strong dollar. But here in the US, you know, if we're going to grow it close to a five percent real GDP growth this year, we're probably gonna still grow about four percent next year, but it will be faster, or initially will flow over the course of two thousand twenty two as we increasingly move away from this sugar hive of getting out of COVID and getting back to the reality of a world of modestly higher prices, modestly higher yields, stronger dollar, all those things

that slow down growth of it. But the US is still going to be a vibrant and growing economy, particularly in relation to non US economies for the most part. Okay, Alin, So let's let's talk where our audience and where you think investors should be putting their money right now? How

do you trade this environment? Well, first of all, long and strong and still remain an optimistic or constructive view on equities because in equities are a reasonable inflation and once again reassert in a world of low yields, looking for other income alternatives and things like real estate oriented int come and things like reats make tremendous sense because you can still drive real return with an inflation hedges.

Rents rise relative to conventional bonds. And the reality is in lots of real estate sector is like warehouses and like apartments, rents haven't rolled over year over year yet in some of these, and when they rolled over, the rent increases away from earthquake late in California, but anywh else in the country, real rent growth is going up ten to fifteen percent in markets like Nashville, And so what you're getting is rent increases that translate directly into

value increases most properties. So I still think real estate oriented income or other income alternatives, private credit where the strength balance sheet strength of private companies is still strong and you can buy floating rate in debt so you're not caught in the world of modestly hiring rates hurting your public fixed income. That's the places to look for income beyond dividend paying stocks, Alright, that's the place to be. All right, Allan, nice to get some time with you

on this Wednesday. Alan Zaffron, founding partner and co CEO at I e Q Capital, on the phone from Foster City, California. He said, just nearby what four point one earthquake? Yeah, that's California for you, my my home. Um that said, those can be very jarring, Yeah, right, especially if you're not if you're not used to or even if you're used to it, it's still just a reminder of what's going on. I never got used to it, I bet,

I bet. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News