Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. You're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Well, US job growth studied last month, well on the unemployment rate rose. It's a mixed snapshot of a job market hanging in the balance of a quickly changing government policy. The labor market is softening, with more people permanently out of work, fewer workers on federal government payrolls Carol, and a jump in those working part time for economic reasons.
That said, there are still more than seven million jobs in the United States that remain on filled. That's according to the latest Joltz data, So there's definitely some imbalance out there. Debbie Dyson is working to correct that. She is the CEO of One ten. It's a nonprofit. It works with companies and their leadership to change how they hire talent. So basically, people who don't have four year degrees but have skills are able to get hired. She joins us from Las Vegas. Debd be great to have
you here with Tim and myself. Tell us a little bit more about what you folks are doing and what actually creates results.
Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me. So, yeah, I mean, our movement has been really focused again on identifying organizations that are really looking to elevate their talent strategy. And if you think about, as you just noted, with seven million opportunities available and people looking for opportunity, you're able to widen your talent pool when you sort of eliminate or take away that sort of degree requirement that currently still have about sixty percent of all jobs that
are asking for one. So we're really trying to just widen the pool and give opportunities in a more fair balanced manner, you know, across the various industries that exist.
Which industries are most receptive to this?
Yeah, I mean, so the way that we look at it, as we look at the variety of different job reports that I'm sure you've seen as well, Like manufacturing is definitely leading the pack. But this is pretty volatile. So we've seen manufacturing, you've seen healthcare. You know, we're starting to see a little bit more of a spike in the technology you know it AI as you can probably
well imagine. So those are typically the three leading industries that we've seen, you know, quarter by quarter, and what I will say our coalition consistently is asking us for what.
You know, if you could change something that would help your mission, what would it.
Be candidly demystifying that an individual needs a four year degree in order to actually get a good job. You know, what we're finding is is that talent comes in all shapes and sizes. You have individuals that are unable to complete a four year degree, but they've been working for the last twenty years and they're trying to apply for opportunities, but the job description indicates that they need a four
year degree. Well, if you can eliminate or recredential that particular job, imagine the opportunities that are able to be open. So there's a little bit of a legacy we've been you know, we've all been doing this for decades of interviewing people and looking right away. When you use AI technology to scrape resumes and say only look for people with degrees, you're leaving behind about sixty six percent of
Americans that are immediate eliminated because of this requirement. So it's not to say that we're discouraging people from be dating to degree. We're just saying widen the pool and allow others to be part of the opportunity as well.
W you spent a lot of your career working for corporations. You're former president of ADP National account Services, So you know that when hiring committees get together and when they look at folks for jobs, a lot of times they do look at that four year degree.
Exactly exactly, Yeah, I mean I was in human capital management. I mean, you know, part of a talent strategy is making sure again that you're trying to broaden, you know, the individuals that are qualified. And so the way that you think about it is, if you really want to get to the right type of talent, what are the actual skills that you need to gain the employment and the ability to actually flourish and have a sustainable career. Most of those of us, excuse me, have learned what
we've learned through on the job training. It wasn't so much my degree. It helped perhaps open a door, but most of what I was able to obtain was through on the job and skills that I gathered through the career. So that's what we're trying to educate, is to just help manage your see beyond.
Well, that's to Tim's point, Debbie, though, like, tell us how many instances you know, once you're you know, kind of inside a corporate setting, you see how you know things work, how decisions are made. And I'm just curious from your time spent in corporate America how often somebody is a great candidate or but they don't have a college degree or something like, you know, what goes on internally in terms of the standards. I feel like at a lot of organizations they still want to see at
least a college degree. We kind of make the comments when I graduated, college degree was enough. I didn't need a master's. Now today I have a daughter coming out of college. He's like, I'm going to need master's to do anything for anybody to look at me, you know, to really advance. Like, how do we get away from that mind thing?
Yeah? I mean, look, if you think about it, the way that we try to go about it is you take a pool of say one hundred typical types of jobs, and you lay them out and say, what are the actual requirements that are needed? And you literally start with the skills that are required. Now, I'm not, by any means suggesting that one hundred percent of all jobs do
not require a degree. They are absolutely jobs that you must you know, would I think we would all feel comfortable if our doctor had a degree, or a lawyer or engineer or roles like that. But there are other front entry level positions that really would not require a degree. So we try to get managers and leaders to think about the skills that are needed first. That's why it's called skills first. Think of the skills first, and then
think about every other requirement. And as you go through you will find, in a sixty forty sort of situation that the skills are first of a priority rather than a degree. And that's all that we're trying to do is even the playing field so that everybody has an opportunity to hopefully get a great job.
Oh Devin listening to one of the recent Azrakline podcasts. It's run like ten or fifteen minutes into it, but he's interviewing Ben Buchanan, who is an AI advisor in the Biden Whitehouse, and part of the interview, he says something along the lines of any anybody who's it's behind it or in front of a computer, their job will
be at risk when it comes to AI. Debbie, how do you think about that when you think about while the employment picture changes in the coming years, and whether or not a degree is even necessary in a world where we'll have this technology with AGI.
Yeah, I mean, look, I think there's a piece around AI. I mean, obviously it's real, it's here, and I do think that there's an opportunity that there are many front entry level positions that are more manual in effort that could be automated through AI that will be eliminated. But it is not every single job. We all know that in order for AI to be efficient and work, there
are people behind it that have to program it. So what we've been encouraging talent and even employers to think about is who do you need in your organization to help feed the engine for AI. It doesn't just learn, even though we might think that on its own, someone has to. So we're trying to now equip learners and talent to think about how do you contribute to AI to be part of the solution, opposed to running the other direction and thinking your job's going to be eliminated.
It's almost like a it's a coworker, so sit side by side and not necessarily the elimination it's just elevate. Entry level positions absolutely are probably at risk. But there's a whole other plethora of opportunities that we see beyond AI that won't be replaced but could be enhanced by human touch to some degree.
Yeah, it's interesting. There's a story that is among the most read on the Bloomberg and has to do with junior bankers on Wall Street how they are anxious about the as of AI and they're worried that it's going to minimize their learning opportunities and make them weaker employees in the long run. Right, Like, you're not going to pull in a junior player to say, hey, help me with this deal. I'm the senior player. I'm going to
teach you things. You know, we're not going to maybe we can just do something ourselves or use AI or what have you, especially in some of those tedious tasks. So you do wonder what the impact be. I am curious what you are looking to help individuals? Are companies create, you know, help individuals to upscale? What are the number one or two skills that need to be taught?
So you have there are two skills factors that we talk about. There's technical skills, and then I would say softer or durable skills. And so on the technical side, you're hearing a lot more around sort of critical think gain. You're thinking more around that analytical just as we talked about AI. It's the analysis of it. You know, it's one thing to get data, it's a whole other thing to sort of interpret it. So we see a lot
more around that. When you go to the soft skills, I think pieces that when there's hesitancy about using skills, it's where do you learn the ability to be a great collaborator, how do you think about resiliency. So part of the package more or less when you think about skills is the combination of technical skills that you need to do the technical aspects, but the ability to obviously have this off skills on verbal and presentation skills that you know. Some would argue that you do learn when
you're in more of a collegiate environment. And so we're trying to fill both gaps so that there's not a shortage to say, yeah, you gave me somebody that had this piece, but they're lacking that.
Hey, just to get just thirty seconds back to that story that I mentioned on the Bloomberg. I mean, what happens to the entry level? Does it go away?
Though?
I mean because of AI and so people don't get that opportunity.
Yeah, you know, look, I think there's a reality that a good portion of it will, and so I think that is why we're trying to get learners at a little bit more of an advanced date in their career, so that it's not just starting at entry maybe you're more mid management, and that you're starting at a more seasoned and tenured But yeah, it's a risk, there's no question at all.
All Right, we got a run. Hey listen, thank you so much. Good to check in with you and have a great weekend. Debbie Dyson, chief executive officer of one ten, joining us from Las Vegas.
Well fair to say our audience is familiar with the glass ceiling Carol, Yes, billiar yes, ok, yeah, Okay, I heard of it.
Yeah, all right, waiting for me to say like I've hit a.
No no no. But you know, it's a rhetorical question that you know, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, what about the broken wrung?
Uh? Not as much I.
Didn't know about this.
Yeah.
Lorena Yee argues that it actually holds women back in their careers more so than the glass ceiling. So let's get right to it. Loraina Ye is senior partner in McKinsey and Company, also chair of the McKenzie Tech Council. For forthcoming book, it's out next week, we got a preview of it. It's called The Broken Wrong When the career ladder breaks for women and how they can succeed in spite of it. Lorena, thanks for joining us. What is the broken wrung?
So much so as you're thinking about your career, imagine an actual physical ladder. Every single step is a promotion.
So here's what we found.
That first step is often broken for women. And here's what I mean. For every one hundred men that get that first promotion opportunity, only eighty one women in the United States will see that same opportunity. And if you're a woman of color, and if you are a black women in the United States, that number is fifty four.
And that's why while we're all looking at that glass ceiling, which is real and exists, and you know there are a couple of women kind of cracking through there, the big numbers are at that first run and that's where we're losing women.
So what's the solution here. It sounds like you've identified the problem. Yes, that's a big part of it, I'm guessing.
I mean, part of it is identifying the problem so we can at least see it. But what's more important is what do you go do about it? So, you know, there's been a lot of programs and companies that have endeavored to make the playing field more level address it, but really what we wanted to explore is what women themselves can do and how fitting on International Women's Day, So one of the things that we uncovered is this
concept of experience capital. So if you think about it, it's kind of a fancy term for the fact that fifty percent of your lifetime earnings depends on what you learn on the job. So women are exceptional students, they graduate at higher rates than men, they get better GPAs, but they don't excel per se in the workplace. And so how you strategically and tactically gain that experience capital to get the other fifty percent is a huge piece of the answer.
So what's your top advice to women who are listening right now and thinking about what you're saying.
Well, we have lots of advice, but I think my top one is to make big, bold moves in your career. And that's where you have a skilled distance of twenty five percent between what you did before and what you're doing going forward. And we know this has a huge effect. Think of it as like putting money into your savings account and being able to see that grow. When you make those big bold bets on yourself and on your
career and stretch, that has a huge effect. I would say two other things that are really important is spend time in your career in the power alley, and what I mean by that is spend time in P and L roles or profit and loss roles, so that even if you don't want to do that permanently, you have a good understanding of the core of the business. And
the last one is it's not a solo act. You're going to need a village around you, and that means that you need sponsors, not just mentors who are empathetic, but people who open the doors and windows in your career.
Is that better now that it has been in recent years, given that we do see more women in positions of powers and companies.
So I mean when we say, we need we see more women. Let's put a number on them.
Yeah, well, in terms of CEOs, it doesn't look great.
It doesn't look great. And so one layer under when I started this research a decade ago, we saw about you know, we saw about nineteen percent women at the top. Now we see twenty nine percent. Those are hard earned numbers, so that's good. But at the end of the day, what we systematically see is that women have more narrow, more junior networks. And what's really important is to have broader, more senior networks. The thing is, you can't build a
network overnight. You're going to actually need to start working on it day one of your career and slowly build that out. And one of the things that's really important is don't just build a network with the people you work with and in the company you work with. Build a network beyond the company that you're in. You're going to need both internal advocates and external advocates to help you over the lifetime of your career.
So when you mean men get more value from their experience than women than women do, what is what do you mean exactly?
Yeah, they're able to So look, I don't know where they kind of get clued into this. This is kind of a mystery to me. And part of the reason why we did this.
Mystery are men. Men are mysteries. I can just say they are mysteries.
But go ahead, Paul, you might disagree, so I might just let you in there for a second.
But I wanted to make it transparent. We wanted to make that transparent.
And what we see is that women are not gaining that experience capital in the sort of as big as quickly. And so one of the key lessons is plan early in your career. It's not just enough to do the thing you were asked to do. You need to act, look up and around and do a bit more.
So, as I remember a book, I'm trying to give it as Steve Schwartzman or something. But it's like, you know, if you're going to go go big, because it's going to take almost as much efforts as if you go small. And I think there's probably numerous iterations of this, but if you're going to do something, just go big, Just go big, Just go BIG's.
Go big, Yeah, absolutely, And that's what we mean by these big bold bets. I mean, you know, think about how well women have done in school and think about that first broken rum. I mean, you haven't been in the workforce long enough for there to be a true quality difference between men and women. You've been in the workforce what two four or five years where you get that first promotion. So betting on yourself is a great bet. And you got to go big.
Steve Schwartzman of course at Blackstone Fame. Oh yeah, in case you're wondering.
He says, go big, Carol.
Uh.
Super interesting, Well that's also for you.
I mean it's for men and women, but just making sure that on you know that women are doing it too.
Yeah, No, it's interesting. Hey, listen, just twenty twenty five seconds. How much so of maybe getting caught up or facing a broken rung is because of having kids? Just quickly, So that's more than twenty seconds.
But to cover that quickly, one of the things we know is that there are a lot of challenges in terms of motherhood and one of the things that we explore in our research is how can actually be an accelerator. And so just one story I'll leave you with is that real quick story is a woman who was a high powered lawyer in tech. She took fourteen years off and then she decided to go back and she did one of these reboarding programs back into the workplace at
LinkedIn and is back and is an executive there. And so just one thing for mothers is you may make a decision, but then you can still come back to the workplace and be an executive.
Cool stuff. Good to get some time with you. Lorena Yee, Senior partner at McKenzie and Company, Chair of the McKenzie Tech Counsel. Her book The Broken Rung, When the Career Ladder Breaks for Women and How they can succeed in spite of it.
All.
Right, you're listening and watching Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg, Carol.
How often do you hear people say things like, hey, do you have an HVAC guy all the time? Or like a tile guide? Definitely, an appliance guy, yes, yesterday, you got a guy who's a good plumber.
Oh, all the time.
I'm actually looking for someone who can do some light dry wall if you know anyone.
Yeah.
It turns out that women, though, are behind quite a bit of the growth in home services. This is according to Yep.
That is pretty wild. Tara Lewis is VP of Community Expansion and Trends at YEP. She joins us from Washington, DC. Tara is so good to have you here. Tell us what's going on in terms of women and home services because this is kind of surprising.
Yes, thanks for having me. Well. For Women's History Month, We've just released our second annual She Economy Services Report, which revealed that women owned home services businesses on yelps for past fifteen thousand new openings in twenty twenty four, or topping every other category for the second consecutive year.
Women are seeking out these opportunities in home service businesses, and as you said, traditionally male dominated area is like pumming and roofing masonry more than any other category, including beauty service categories, which historically have been some of the top choices for female entrepreneurship as we've seen on yelp.
Hey, one thing I want to ask you, so are they starting the businesses and then hiring men to be the plumbers or are they actually doing it?
I would assume that well, first of all, as if you're going to be identified as a woman owned business on Yelp, as the business owner, you have to go through your business owner account and verify that it is when women owned. As for the choices that are made after that is totally up to the business owner, but I would assume as a woman, you would probably strive to be as inclusive as possible when it comes to hiring the best talent if what you want is business success.
Is this a story about economics that? I mean, Caroly and I talked about this all the time, and our team has written about this over the past couple of years. The shortage of people who are in home services. I mean, anyone who knows who has paid for a plumber and sees the exorbitant costs understand that this is a supply story and a demand story as well, and there's just not enough of supply. So is this an economic story?
This is where the opportunity is and that's why these women are opening these businesses.
I think that's a big piece of it, obviously, if you know that consumer demand exists. But also the home services category is pretty vast, and I think that there's a lot of these home services that are clutch and vital for any sort of home maintenance or day to day operational maintenance of anybody's home, whether they're renting or they own, so I think that there's a stability in that,
and then of course meeting consumer demand. Of course we have the big home renovation projects and things like that, but then you have the nuts and bolts of you know, chimney sweeps and landscaping and irrigation and other things that are tiered. So I think that when you think of the spectrum of what home services what those services are, there's just ample opportunity for new folks to insert themselves into that. And I think that additionally in terms of
female entreprenrepreneurship. But I think of some of the reasons why they might be pursuing some of these areas is not only market demand, but the lower barriers for entry. If you're opening a salon, for example, or medspot, there's a lot of cost associated with brick and mortar that might be different for some of these home service categories.
There's also great flexibility and work life balance when you're an entrepreneur, and there's also growing support networks that are starting to emerge and resources for women in these areas that are typically historically male dominated. So I think there's a lot of factors that are driving that growth and supporting it further.
Is there a certain amount of flexibility to maybe possibly running some of these businesses or having some oversight for women? Is that part of the aspect are part of the reason why.
I think that flexibility work life balance, also financial independence and career growth. Being an entrepreneur is always appealing probably a cross categories, but I think in terms of specifically home services, I think in terms of consumer trust, there might be people that are more inclined to feel comfortable with a woman coming into their home than others. But I think that in general, women that are pursuing it, they're seeing that there is an opportunity that is prime
to find success there. And flexibility is you know, as an entrepreneur is relative when it comes to how many hours you're putting in per week, but it is at least based on your own lifestyle and time and what you'd like for your business, and so that autonomy I think is really valuable to all entrepreneurs, but especially women.
I have to say along these lines, I have a friend who's been in the media business for a long time, producing and writing and changes in that industry, and she's now thinking, well, maybe what I'm going to do is you know, buy some homes, redo them and maybe rent them out, or we do them. So it kind of falls into this where geographically are we seeing women perhaps do this the most well.
We were able to identify the top five category, the top five metros where we saw the highest increase in new business openings for home home service categories. Louisville was the number one, and we know that it was recognized in twenty nineteen for having one of the highest percentages of female business owners in the nation, and so it's showing that it's continuing to grow in that direction. Salt Lake City was number two. It saw a forty six
percent increase from the year before. We know that that has an unprecedented housing boom taking place and a rise in new residents. So some of the things that are happening in some of these metros are indicative of prime opportunities. And then, of course, for example, if you see that there's growing metro areas, there's going to then be more consumer demand, more homes being built, et cetera, et cetera.
You know, I'm wondering about the percentages here because you went through some of the cities, but if we look at home services led the women knowned openings, you see some pretty big percentages here. Lawn services was up thirty one percent, light fixtures and equipment up twenty eight percent, Junk removal and hauling up close to thirty percent. Is this a result of base effects? Like it was a small number to begin with, so any increase seems like a big increase as a percentage.
Well, I think that we've been looking at this data a year over year for at least three years now, so I mean it's still building upon data that we have previously, So I don't think it's so much that I think that we've just seen. First of all, on COVID, we've seen a continue increase in home service demand in general, but we've just been starting to look more so at this industry of emerging women owned home service entrepreneurs, and
so I think that that's more what's significant. And I think that once you're breaking it down, there is probably a factor of what that percentage of lift is. But I still think it's pretty significant when you're thinking about market share for any of these categories.
So what do you think, I'm we just got about forty five to fifty seconds here Bloomberg audience that's listening to this investing audience looking for trend. I don't know what's the key takeaway from this research.
I think the key takeaway is that women are finding new ways to drive economic growth and expanding the conventions of what female entrepreneurship looks like. I think that because home services is such a vast category, there are so many opportunities that are vital for homeowners and anyone that needs to maintain their home. So these are industries that I think have a great sense of stability and continued growth is very likely in the future.
All Right, We're going to leave it on that note. Hey, have a great weekend. Thanks for stopping by. Tera Lewis. She's vice president of Community Expansion and Trends over at YELP. Joining us from Washington, d C.