Realtors Want To Fix Discrimination

You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Carol master Long, Katie Greifeld. In our Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio, we mentioned some of the COVID headlines. The f d A of the United States poised to authorize a pair of pills to treat COVID nineteen as soon as this week. We're watching that.

We are also monitoring out of DC because President bind is expected to make some comment when it comes to coronavirus tests and really an update on the administration's policy when it comes to the pandemic, and he, like all of us, like you know, the policy continues to evolve absolutely, And you did see the Biden administration saying that it's gonna send five hundred million free tests to aid this shortage that they've found. So give me all the test.

Yeah right, let's as long as people don't stop call them exactly exactly. And meantime, we did have a UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson ruling out stricter rules before Christmas, but did urge some caution saying go out the situation remains finally balanced and that officials may announce further curbs after December. We really are going day to day, maybe even hour to hour. Great to have back with us.

Dr Alogic day Williams. He's Chief of Staff of Neurology over at Columbia Universities Vagelo's College of Physicians and Surgeons and NIH funded research or a leading health disparities expert with research focused on community based behavioral intervention. You might recall we've talked to him about Hip Hop Public Health. He's the founder, president and board chair of IT, and Bloomberg Philanthropies has provided a grant to Hip Hop Health as well. Great to have him back here on the

phone in New York City. Dr Williams. How are you and what are you seeing when it comes to the pandemic. Well, I'm I'm doing well. Thanks for asking, and I hope you and all your families are well when it comes to the pandemic. Um, you know, with seeing uh, you know, rising numbers UM here in New York City and and and and across the country is quite frankly, um, Um, we're gonna see this over the next several weeks across

the globe. And it's being really driven by the armicron bearing, which is now, as you know, become the dominant strain here in the US. And so you mentioned the fact that we have seen rising cases, and Carol and I were just talking about one of the headlines from this morning that President Biden will send five million free coronavirus tests to homes beginning next month. Should we expect to see uh in acceleration in that rise just as a natural result of more testing. Yeah, I mean I think that,

you know, more more testing, you're gonna find more cases. Um. The question is, um, do the cases translate into um, you know, burdened you know, overwhelming our hospitals into higher death rates? And that is the great concern that is the great sphere that that these cases um as as they continue to surge, we will start seeing, especially among the unvaccinated, more severe cases in our hospitals. UM. And

that is the concern. The data is still not fully adjudicated on this yet, but but we are concerned, especially among especially when it comes to the vulnerable among us. So I guess a couple of questions, and I think about this. I've had several individuals in the medical community. Dr Williams say, we're all going to get a macron and that's how we kind of get rid of this virus. Uh, and we just kind of knock it out. Is that how you see it playing out? Or is there another

variant to come? What are your expectations, especially since I think about the communities you watch who were so deeply impacted uh last go around and some of the other are peaks that we've seen when it comes to our COVID, Well, I'm really concerned, um because um you know, these variants will continue to appear um and and and my my biggest concern is the is really the issue of global vaccine equity, because you know, COVID anywhere is COVID everywhere

and and once we as we we have just for example, thirteen percent of people in Africa have receipt have received at least one dose. That is a very low number. So we will continue to see these variants emerge. And as we can see with every variant, uh, these viruses are becoming trickier, They're becoming more elusive, that is learning how to evade our vaccines. And and you know, we, you know we we might be confronted with a situation where our vaccines don't work at all against the future variant.

And then that is that is the big concerns. Well, Katie wants to know if she should travel on Thursday. That's really what she wants to know. What's what's your advice to people? Let's note, I'm supposed to see a three month old infant after I get off the plane. Oh my god. Well I can say this. I think most the most important thing is to protect our vulnerable loved one. UM. I think it's really important to be you know, just exercise, just be responsible. Make sure that

our networks, our closest networks are at least boosted. UM. It's important to make sure that we uh, you know, use limit the sizes of our gatherings, um and and um and as long as we take common sense safety precautions um during this period. You know, I think that we can keep our loved one's safe. You know, you do? You do? You have a follow up? I do have a really quick follow up. Just one. What Carol was

saying about the sort of inevitable feeling. You know, I've heard some people say, why should I even bother getting the booster? It feels like we're all going to get this new variant anyway. What's the point I would love to hear your response to that, And we have just about thirty seconds. The point is hospitalization and death um and and and and that is a real concern. We know that the booster really does prevent you from progressing

to mild to severe disease. UH. The question is people are asking is does this variant even cause severe disease? And my answer to that is that the jury is still out and you do not want to be on the wrong side of that jury, because, especially if you have vulnerable loved ones in your family. Listen, stay safe. We so appreciate your time. Dr Williams, Doctor a Larger Day Williams chief of staff of Neurology at Columbia University

and founder of hip hop Public Health. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week on Bloomberg Radio as our Bloomberg pursuits. Auto columnist Hannah Elliott recently wrote this year, it seems all anyone ever wanted to talk about in the car world where electric vehicles and Katie check this out. In the US alone, as of December one, more than fifteen U states had pledged to phase out sales of new cars with combustion engines. At least two more such moves

were pending. So people are leaning in heavily when it comes to e V. Yeah, big time. And I mean I feel like it's one of the buzz words that has emerged. E V along with metaverse and whatever help you want to say. You put e V on anything, and I mean you tend to generate a lot of buzz, especially in share prices. We could have evs in metaverse, maybe in a in a fun way. UM, let's get

some thoughts on trends in the auto industry. Cheryl Connolly is with US chief futurist At Ford on the phone in Dearborn, Michigan, Cheryl, good to have you here with Katie and myself. How are you. It's good to be here. Thanks for having me. It's great to have you here. We love talking about the auto industry. Or Hannah Eli, who covers it for Bloomberg pursuits all in on luxury

and just all the major trends. What are you guys seeing from your perch there at Ford when it comes to trends maybe that we'll see playing out in two and maybe into What's your point that you already Lendon, is that dvs, like the e V revolution, is already here for us. We expect that our global vehicle mics will be fully electric um to a degree of four year by the year, and there are consumers that are ready. I mean six so long, so long? That's all the

eight years from now right? Why so long? That's so Actually, we're well on our way. I think part of it is infrastructure, um. But we've gone all in with our Mustang Maki, which is I think a really interesting strategy for four because we took our most precious nameplates, that Mustang in the F one fifty, and we turned them into electric so that we could show consumers that you

could totally reconceive what an electric vehicle is about. I think in my mind that there is this notion among consumers that there's a tradeoff, you know, you have to give up something if you want electric and by taking our most powerful vehicles, we started to show people that you could still have um muscle and my lege, you know,

there was no trade off. And I think as more and more consumers seem on the road, they start to understand that in the future, you it will be the same kind of conversation do you have a V six, a V eight or do you have an electric vehicle? I think it will become almost a non issue. Mm hmm, yeah. I mean, just anecdotally in my own life, I feel like my parents are I have a hand to CRV very much, not alec but okay, so EV's clearly top of mind. What else, though, what about self driving vehicles?

Because that's another conversation, having more and more this year. Yeah. So we've been watching this space for a very long time and I think people are really enchanted with the notion of it. But geographical appetite really varies. So in recent years we know that when you look at places like China and India. Over at the consumers say they're hopeful about the a V feature um or that that experience. But when you turn to the west, um the number drops down to about for the US, forty five for

the UK, and forty four for Germany. So there there's really a geographical component. I think it has something to do with the landscape once you drive. Even so in China there's this notion of these mega cities twenty three billion people and in a place like Beijing alone, so when you talk about getting an autonomous driving vehicle, you're not just talking about safety, but you're talking about convenience. And in a place like that, they report an average

day like community five hours a day. Um, so it's it'll be life changing. And there is a safety component too though, because I think that we know like sixty five percent of people worldwide, I've told us that they ran at their child right in a a V, than ride with a stranger raising my hand. Um, well it's

interesting to shout out no really, like it's funny. I just had to do, um some big drives to pick up my daughter at college at school, and I was thinking, I'm on a highway and a lot of vehicles today have all these great safety features that basically they drive themselves, and you can test it by putting on your you know, destronic or whatever and taking your hands off the will even though you're not supposed to. But they knew how to self drive, and I can see how on highways,

what a great feature it could be and probably safer. UM. I do think about tho our infrastructure, especially for cities, if it's not in place. Again, that's the thing I guess that holds us up the most. I do think that's that is a really big question for most consumers in their mind, is you know, when when will charging be readily available? And we actually in our survey ask people when they thought that there would be more UM charging stations than gas stations, and we had about people

say that e V chargers will outnumber petrol stations. UM. So it's a slow ramp up, but it's again geography plays such a role. Here Germany, when they were doing their covid UH stimulus package, one of the things that I really marveled at the kind of ingenuity of it was that they said we're gonna put money in the market and we're gonna give it to um, gas stations and we're going to give them money, stimulus money so

they and put our new stations in it. And so you can see this country flip it's availability, accessibility, and the whole attitude around it literally overnight. Yeah, and it does feel like some of these attitudes are shifting overnight. Hey, so we have about twenty seconds. Curious what surprised you

most when you do look at this report? You know what surprised me is that with all the worry about COVID and economic volatility anyone percent, that people say when they think about the future, the planet is one of the biggest things that they still consider to be one of the most pressing issues. It's what makes us worry about our children's future. Well, it's good to know that that's on people's minds, because nothing else really matters if

you don't get that right. All right, Cheryl gotta run Hey, Happy New Year, um and be well. Caryl Connolly, she's chief futurist over at Forward on the phone from Dearborn, Michigan. Like it's climate, COVID, climate COVID self driving, and that was a really interesting conversation. Good stuff. All right, you're you're listening to Bloomberg Radio. So, Katie, not sure if you saw this via transportation as a tech company focused on helping people get around cities confidentially filing with the

SEC today for an IPO. Even in these last few weeks of the year, we'll continue to see the I p O market really move ahead. Yeah, that I p O market still hot in these final few weeks. Let's talk about that more with Chris Malick. He is the managing director at key Bank Capital Market. He joins us on the phone from Cleveland, Ohio. Chris, great to have you with us, Karen. I were just talking about the fact that, I mean the I p O market it

was hot in super hot one too. I believe there's been close to five hundred I p O s this year. Can we sustain that pace? It is a lot? Yeah, great questions In the first off, Good afternoon, Carol and Katie. Thanks for having me on and uh, happy holidays. Uh. Certainly good to see the market up today with a lot of green on the screen. You know. To your point, Uh, it was a record here here in roughly two times the amount of issuance that we saw in which by

itself was a pretty solid year. I think you've got to go back to the dot com era for a comparable year. UM. You know, but as we look out, I am cautiously optimistic that we'll see continued momentum inequities and issuance into two UM. I think December is actually a pretty good proxy for what to expect because you've had a little bit of everything. Uh. You know, Oh,

Macron has been a moving target. You know, you go back to Black Friday, uh, initially putting some pressure on the market, sentiment improved, uh and now once again impacting equities in in a negative way. Uh, you know, in terms of rates and inflation. Also putting a little bit of pressure on markets with three anticipated hikes next year. Uh. And then you know, with regard to build back better,

that's probably not helping the situation either. But you know, all that said, I p O s continued to price here in dece number with a handful of large tech deals getting done. You had new holdings they priced at two point six billion dollar IPO Hashy Corp uh and

then most recently some Sara. So if I look at the Renaissance IPO index, it's down about ten percent so far this year, so returns not so great for many I p O s. Um, what does that tell you, you know, in a market that overall, if you look at those major equity averages, they've done fairly well, if they've done really well in fact, So what does that say that juxtaposition of how I pos generally did against

the broader market? You know, that's a great question because I think if you look at that same index for it was up over over so a huge delta year over year with the renaissance IPO index. But then um to your point, when you take a look at that index versus the major indusices you know that are up about twenty you know, that's roughly three percentage points UH difference. And what it tells me is, UM that the evaluations for this year's class of I p O s arguably

a little bit rich. A lot of I p O s in the high growth sectors this year of of tech and healthcare UM, and perhaps going forward some of those valuations come down a little bit. You've also got the conversation in and around rates, and I think that by itself and the discounting mechanism will will rain in uh. You know, some of those multiples. Yeah, that's what I want to talk about, the fact that you do have what two three interest rate hikes expected from the Federal

Reserve next year. I mean broadly, that's expected to maybe take the shine off of some of those high growth names in the stock market. Could that affect the sort of makeup of the companies that were Seego public next year? I think it could. I think the complexion changes a little bit, um you know, a few thoughts in and around that question. I think right now, at a high level,

there's a little bit of what goes up must come down. Uh. You know, with the record fiscal and monetary stimulus over the last few years, that that's bit up risk assets. And now I think the mood is shifting a little bit more towards risk off. I don't think it's binary, you know, risk on or risk off, but a little bit more Uh, risk off is we look at things like rate increases and and UH in the virus you know,

I think we'll get through O Macron by the spring. Uh. And then you know, the three projected quarter point moves by the Fed um you know, arguably light you know, I think um, you know, regarding those moves you know that will take the FED funds right, you know up to what to a hundred basis points, which, uh is still an environment in which most equities are attractive. Um, you know, sort of getting over into what companies I think could go public next year and what people look at.

I think these long term secular themes will continue to to win the day. So anything involving technology advances in technology software AI. I know earlier on the show, the topic of metaverse was was discussed. Uh, you know, anything in the life sciences and medtech that make dealing with the pandemic easier will be well received. I also think uh evs uh you know, the decarbonization i'll call it of the energy complex. All of those things will continue

to be popular with the by side. That said, and here's the key point, I think there's going to be a little bit of a shift uh into focusing more on individual company profiles. Uh you know, so maybe this is a function of moving into the mid cycle, if you will, where I think sector focus and company focus become a little more important. So, um, companies that are positioned well in their sectors. Uh, you know, flow good balance sheets, right, um, it importantly priced, it a reasonable evaluation.

Got it? Hey, Chris, we gotta run. Chris Malock, managing director at key Bank Capital Markets, joining us on the phone from Cleveland, Ohio. We didn't talk too much about SPACs, but spacks overall, Katie as a group or down about sixteen this year. Yeah, it's all those high flyers not looking too hot right now, exactly, very different from how we started the year. Well. From our Bloomberg Business Week team, a story on the efforts by realtors who want to

fix years of discrimination against black Americans, specifically. The thing is they're not about to give up their six percent commission. So let's get into the story. Peter Robison, his Projects and Investigations reporter at Bloomberg News. He is with Katie and me on the phone in Seattle. Hey, Peter, um, really smart story. Tell us well, first of all, take us back to how your story starts, um, and that awkward zoom call. What happened? Hi? Yeah, it really starts

in November. That was the period when big companies and institutions all around the country were wrestling with the George Floyd murder and the racial reckoning that was happening, and there was a moment where the realtors officially apologized for decades of policy that had excluded Black Americans from home ownership. And it was a zoom call between the president of the realtors named Charlie Oppler. He's a realtor from New Jersey, and he said, many Americans may not realize just how

far reaching the systemic discrimination was. And then he threw the camera to Brian Green, who is the group's newly appointed at the time, was the newly appointed director of Fair Housing Policy. And Brian Green had spent decades at the Housing and Urban Development Department, and and he talked about how black Americans were excluded, how the Realtors group opposed the Fair Housing Act and uh and and that's where the call was was left. It was really an

acknowledgment of the damage that had been done over the decades. So, Peter, that call was in November. We're now in December. Where are we now? What are those efforts to you know, fix those decades of discrimination? What do they look like? That's what our story tried to assess because obviously there was a lot of focus on the issue then uh and and now the question is what are you really

doing what what a tonement is being made uh. And and so the realtors have started a training program to to try to teach to try to avoid instance is a potential bias by by realtors. They've supported the administration's down payment assistance program. And they've actually also supported Maxine Waters proposal, which which would go even further than the

House proposal. And they've they've talked about participating in the um UH in the review of appraisals the administration is doing, which which might help reverse the discrimination that is evident in UH neighborhoods were non what Americans tend to live. UH. So that's really what has been done. Our our story looked at what is happening beyond that, looking at you know, as you mentioned the commission, the commission is is four

to six percent. It has realtors chasing the larger commissions that tends to be in the higher price neighborhoods, and those neighborhoods tend to be where white Americans live. So so we found that in many cities across the country, there there are just many more realtors in predominantly white neighborhoods that neighborhoods with pronoumbly non white people don't have

the same attention and haven't gotten the same opportunities. Hey, Peter, the National Association of Realtors, right, it's been around for a long time, and yet it just got its first Director of Fair Housing Policy, as you write, and you mentioned bat Brian Green, who had worked for many years at the U s Department of Housing and Urban Development. What does that say though, that they're getting their first director of fair housing policy? Fair housing, the issue that

concerned this is not a new idea. We've talked about it for decades. I feel like, um, what does it say about the organization that this is only happening now? It does make a statement in and of itself. It's it also, UH is the case that within a very short time of Brian Green taking that role, a blockbuster investigation in Newsday found that racial steering was alive and well in Long Island. That a large percentage of the realtors that that Newsday approached UH steered their clients to

certain neighborhoods based on their race. So what it says is that there's a long way to go. And so how has this played out? In the National Association of Realtors itself, because as you write in your story, I mean, this is a trade group that you know, largely supported the administration of Donald Trump, It hosted, it hosted him at its legislative summit. Have we seen any have we

seen any fissures opened up in this group specifically? There has been a lot of ascent from from what the group is doing that at the about the same time the group issued this apology, at also UH made a formal ban of hate speech, that that realtors who um say racist things either at work or even on their own social media seeds could potentially be expelled from the group. And that led to a lot of pushback. You had people saying that's an infringement by First Amendment rights. You

had people calling it cancel culture. We have heard of at least a couple of cases where realtors have talked about ending their donations to the group's political arm. So it's really mapping the divisions in American society. I always feel like for our audience, So we're talking about them, you know, banning some of their their social posting. What kinds of things were realtors posting? They were they were

horrible enough that you can't say them. They there's a fellow he met the Fantas, who is a realtor from Champaign, Illinois, who had a video that was just shocking in and and he intentionally uh said what was said in order to be shocking, and uh it was just appalling racist stuff. And as he said, these are people who wear the realtor's badge. And and that was what he thought why he thought it was so necessary to create this formal policy. And so where do you think we go from here?

What will be the next chapter in this story when we think about having this conversation, for example, in December, Well, the next chapter is is really this focus on the Commission. That the Commission in the US a four to six

percent is unusual worldwide. Uh. In many other countries like the UK and Sweden, people pay two percent or less on on house sales, and that the Commission is under threat and to class action lawsuits in Illinois Missouri, and you also have to Justice Department investigating it as a potential antitrust violation. So uh Any in addition to that,

you have discount brokers and increasingly coming into the market. Uh. So although the realtors are a powerful trade group, they're actually the largest trade group in the country, they are not They're proving not immune to competition and change in their industry. Well, it's such a relevant story because we think about we talk often about wealth creation, and it's no longer just about income creations, about wealth creation and the gaps that we've see in between, in particular black

and white Americans. You include in your story, the racial wealth gap has been stubborn. In twenty nine team the typical black family had just over one tenth the net worth of the typical white family, in part because of the value of their homes. The gulf and home ownership also persists. About seventy of white families own a home among black families, it's that is a significant gap in terms of gaps. You talk about the ability of Black Americans to own homes, but you also talk about, you know,

the discrimination that black realtors are also seeing themselves. It's not been easy. Yeah, Well, I spent a lot of time with a realtor named Dale Taylor in Mathison, Illinois, which is a suburb south of Chicago, and he's seen the effects over over the decades he's had white homeowners pull pull a gun on clients of his and telling

you better. I think elsewhere he's seen brokerage is moved from the South suburbs to areas around Chicago that they think might have more white uh client, more of a white clienteles, as he put it, um and and what happened there. It also really illustrates just how far reaching damagees because in the eighties Mathison and another town called Frankfort. Peter, forgive us. We have to jump in because the presents about to make some comments. Peter Robison there im road. Yeah,

but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no no, no, this is not a leave. I'll do the right gravels. I want to drive. It's a good question. But drive. This is the drive to the Globe Well on Bluebird Radio. Alright, folks, just got about ten minutes left in today's trading session. Here Doug Chrisner breakdown the trade. We're just coming off our highs of this session, but nonetheless definitely a risk on trade feared really too much in the markets today. Let's get to it. The Drive to the Close with

Dave Gilreath. He is Managing Director, chief investment Officer and Innovative Portfolios joining us on the phone from Indianapolis. Innovative Portfolios by the Way, a money management firm for registered investment advisors. Hey, Dave, good to have you here with Katie and myself. It's been an interesting couple of days. We're bouncing back here today. How do you see the market environment fundamentally? Does it look like we are headed from more gains heading into the new year or less? Okay,

thanks for having me back high, Katie and Uh. I appreciate the invite, and thanks for having me on the darkest day of Yeah, it's getting getting lighter from here on. So that's the good news, right. Um, as far as fundamentally, I mean, COVID is improving. UM, I think most of us a lot a year ago say that it had been probably in the rear view mirror. But it is improving. And you know that it was the economy was, and a lot of other things were in complete chaos on

the way into the pandemic. And now we're coming out of the pandemic maybe, I think, at least slowly. Uh. And so I don't know why people are surprised that it's chaotic on the lay out, but you know there there is some chaos, but there's you know, supply chain is improving. I mean even the semiconductor people are saying that today, and most big corporations are saying that. And inflation is a problem, but um, you know, maybe it's not. It might not be here to stay. So wait, I'm sorry,

are you glass half full of glass half empty? I can't tell am I what I'm sorry, glass half full or glass half empty at this point, glass half full, glass half fall. But people would tell me I've been class half full of my whole life. So um. But I mean, commodity prices will take care of themselves. They always do. And in fact, the CRB index, which is you know, it's index, are like nineteen different commodities that

we use all the time. It's down from a tie in October, and it seems to be going in the right direction. Um. And labor, you know, labor is they're flexing their muscles right now, which they can, and I don't blame them, but union labor is still it's only like of all the jobs in the US, So you know, the union wage pressure isn't what it used to be. So the evaluation of the market isn't cheap um anyway it slice it. But earning should grow pretty well next year.

I mean, the estimate for the SMP is like two thirty bucks, so you would think the SMP could go to without you know, some other big surprise coming and hitting across the face. And Dave, I want to talk more about inflation because you mentioned I mean, if you look at results from Micron from Nike just in the past twenty four hours, therere maybe some signs that the

supply chains are un snarling themselves. But the fact that now we're dealing with a Macron that we could see more variants to come, I mean, does that introduce the possibility that supply chains come under even more pressure and maybe that feeds into inflation. UM. Well, good question, Katie. I don't know. The earlier today you had someone on that was talking about how the UM the movement that you know, I attracted People's movement and all that in Asia and how it's been going to up and up

and up every month, which tells you. That kind of tells me the supply chains are probably improving and not getting worse, so and I think they will. And as far as variants go, I mean, we're going to have it seems like we're going to have more and more variants all the time. Um, But we're starting to learn

to live with that. I mean, in the Midwest anyway, the malls, you know, they couldn't find a parking lot at lunch today, and or parking space and the parking lot at lunch today, and office buildings there may be not full, but there's quite a few people in them. So it seems like we're learning to live with all of this. Um. It does feel like we understand, We've seen the playbook, We've got some tools. But I'm curious, though, Dave is, all right, where are you putting money to work?

From my understanding, you guys, you know, are really leaning in big time when it comes to industrials, names like snap On, like commins um talk to us a little bit about that play right, So our firm, we kind of focus on downside risk of a stock versus the upside potential UM and in one of the strategies when you're mentioning, we combine the div it into Chiever's index, which is the fifty or so stocks that have raised are diving into every year for a decade at least,

and then we score them with these downside resk risk metrics, and then we buy fifty stocks and we reconstitute the list twice a year UM and right now and so the stocks kind of fall through the funnel that we don't necessarily make conscious decision to buy certain groups or anything. But right now half of the positions are industrials UM, which to me is interesting given the fact that there's been so much uncertainy of the market, so um, you know,

right now. And then over and above just buying the stocks and holding them, we do an option overlay using SMP index options to UH. We use set credit spreads and add a little bit of income like three four basis points a year. So right now, the industrial I think, are very cheap. If you look at the x l I which is the spider for the industrials h that chart. If you look at it, it's been building this bay for months and months and months. Uh. And the industrials

as a group have a pretty low forward pe. And the ones that I had mentioned to you, snap On Cummins a b M Industries, which is a stock not a lot of people have heard of, all have really low pees forward pees like in the you know, thirteen fourteen twelve kind of area. Um, and and if not really if, I mean, I think it's pretty evident that the global economies are starting to chug back to life in a pretty good way. Um, the industrial should continue

to pick up steam. And Dave just quickly curious how you feel about tech, because I mean, I don't think anyone would accuse that sector of being inexpensive or chief, but it just seems like you can't keep that sector down for too long. Yeah, the big tech isn't all that expensive quite honestly. Some of the small to the unprofitable tech, I guess you might call it um you know, the ones that don't have really earnings those have those got really expensive and they've been falling back to earth

pretty rapidly. But the big tech, you know, I mean the big ones that everybody you know, the uh, Microsoft and the Google and Facebook and those kind of things, those are not particularly expensive right now, and they're continuing to gain market share and make money. And they've got you know, bazillion dollars of cash on their balance sheets, and they're buying back stocks. I mean, that's another thing that supports the market, is is the stock buybacks at

the end of the third quarter was the biggest. You know, there's an all time record. So corporate executive has got a lot of heat. And but it's it's certain it's certainly what makes stocks moves. And whenever we see it, you know they cross, whether it's on an earnings announcement or other, you definitely see a lot of action on the stock when when they talk about buybacks. Hey, listen, we've got to run. Dave, thank you so much. Happy

New Year's Stay safe. Dave Gilreathi's managing director, chief investment officer over at Innovative Portfolio. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News