This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. There's a long long way to go when it comes to diversity and inclusion, certainly in Hollywood. McKinsey's out with a study about just that,
looking at black representation in film and TV. Shoining us to talk about it is McKinsey partner Sheldon Lynn joining us on the phone in San Diego, along with Nina's Shaw, attorney and founding partner at black Light black Light Collective, that's coalition of black Hollywood executives, and she is on the phone in Los Angeles. Sheldon and Nina. Nice to have you here on Bloomberg. Sheldon, let me kick it off with you tell us about this study. Hi, Carolyn,
and thanks for helping me. Sure excited to be here. Yeah. So you know, we did this work um for a confluence of the factors, and I would say there were three main ones. Number One, there was the real lead, so film and TV happens to be among the worst performers university across all a your American industries. Number Two, we felt we could add a net new contribution on the existing body of work, in particular around building the business case. What is the value at stake from a
failing to pursue diversity inclusion in Hollywood. Number three was where Nina and the Black Hair Collective came in was we felt there was a real path to change here working with our folks who wanted to drive change forward. So that's a bit of a context around the court. We'll need to come on in on this and we're gonna dig into some of the results of of what the mckensey research found out. But you know, I've been
reading some of the interviews you've done. You've talked about being in the entertainment space, being a talent lawyer where you've often only been the are You've often been the only black individual in the room when there's something going on. Yes, well, first of all, Sheldon, thank you so much, and Carol gred to be here. Yes, UM, you know, I think that's the entertaining industry as a whole. UM. Often UM is viewed in a light of being a bit more
progressive than its numbers would indicate. UM. And I think that's that's that progress that those progressive notions are real. UM. I don't want to in any way imply otherwise, but but often it just doesn't match up. And I think the wonderful thing about this study was that it really dug in and it took a look at the numbers, and I think the number that stands out for all of us is this notion that ten billion dollars in annual revenues every year is being lost as a result
of the lack of diversity in the business. And that's something that should appeal to all of us as as something that can be cured. Right, Like we often have conversations here that above and beyond being the right thing to do in terms of diversity and inclusion, there's often a business cost Sheldon by not having that diversity. Yeah, absolutely, and Nina said it right. So the headline was that there is a ten billion dollar opportunity here for us
to pursue diversity inclusion. And it came from what we found, you know, quite surprising for a well established industries, a set of factors that were in effect suppressing the market the true market for black lid content in three important and although surprising ways. The number one was on distribution. So we found that on average it and the film was being shown in thirty fewer countries versus a white LID project, even though the black LID projects made more
per country. And the second thing, from our return of investment perspective or a I, we found that black lid projects were receiving ten less in marketing allocation even though they were making more UM per dollar spent at the box off, specifically sixteen cents more per dollar spent on marketing. And perhaps the most heart breaking part of the equation in terms of market inefficiency well the fact that only four percent of the projects coming out of Hollywood were
accounted for by black treatings. To find us having black marieters, directors, producers, creators behind the camera, which again is on a sounding number when you think about the population average of thirteen point four percent. So those factors together combined to the big number ten billion dollars in lost value and that's just from black representation. Yeah, pretty dramatic. Still with us is McKinsey partner Sheldon Lynn. He is joining us on
the phone in San Diego. Nina Shaw with us attorney and founding partner Black Light Collective. It's the two of them together have come together put out this mckensey report, partnering on it, and it's all about diversity, equity, and inclusion when it comes to the film and television industries. Nina, I want to get bring you in here because you did work with them on this big time. The goal of their part was to humanize black lives. Tell us
how you did that. It wasn't just statistics and numbers, it was real people that you got to. Now we're we were fortunate, um within the ninety or so individuals who formed this loose coalition, the Blacklight Collective, you have literally hundreds of years of experience in the entertainment industry um. Uh, people in the representation business like me, but also people in the production business. So I thought that we lent an incredible perspective as people who work day to day
in this industry and have done so for many years. Uh. And and our collective action as an as a group is really indicative of the kind of collective action that we need to see within the industry. I think the report. One of the report's conclusions is that this these are tough problems to solve if they're being done within insular organizations, that it's going to take a collective action across many of the businesses in the industry to really address these solutions.
And that's in the first step in that of course, is acknowledging that that these problems exist and that they have to mend its financial impact. And we're so grateful to Mackenzie for having done the work that really allows us a launching pad for wheel change. All right, and sit tight for second, guys, I just want to bring a headline crossing the Bloomberg terminal. The CDC Advisors reaffirmed
backing of J and J vaccine authorization. So again we knew the CDC was meeting today, they were again ten days at the use of that drug has been halted here in the United States. But the CDC advisors coming out and reaffirming their backing of the J and J vaccine. UH, that's emergency authorization for here in the United States. So we now once again have another drug UH and vaccine specifically that can be used against COVID nineteen here in
the United States. UM, let me get back to talking Michelle, then lenover at Mackenzie, Nina Shaw of the Black Light Collective. Nina, let me just follow up corporate America has had a tough time. They're doing better, but when it comes to senior positions in particular, whether it's women, whether it's black individuals, whether it's minorities, you know, they seem to increasingly still or at least, I should say, continue to get left
out of some of those senior positions. And many would say that until we have that, it's going to be hard to kind of approve it or improve it all along, um, you know, all along the employment chain, if you will, do you agree? Is that the same for Hollywood and TV? Yes? Um, you know, the lack of representation, really the underrepresentation off screen, the underread representation and leadership roles absolutely holds us back. Now we've seeing progress. You see more people on screen,
and that is a good thing. It is still not as as good as we would like it to be, but we must not forget that those games that we're making in front of the camera need to also be um, also be had behind the camera and in the c suite.
And one of the things that people say to me when they read the report that really knocks them out is that how the entertainment industry is actually behind many other sectors of the UH economy in terms of its diversity and inclusion, because most people, when they are asked to guess at which are the most diverse sectors, would put us much higher in that in that in that
chain than we really are. So this has been this this report has been great because it really, um have made concrete that which many of us who work in the industry always knew to be true. Right if there's something too when you put out the numbers and show it how it really is versus just um, you know, general observations, Sheldon, let me ask you to about stereotyping
and bias nous within Hollywood and TV. Part of the report talks about, you know, the creative limitations that are imposed on black talent that you know, I think there is a stereotyping going on in terms of roles. We see that going on, right, UM, tell us little bit more about that, absolutely, Carol, you know you touched on it before, Um. But one things we're able to do with Nina and the Black leg Collective will really get into the lived experiences and to be fear on credit.
A lot of work has been done on the topic of the versity in Hollywood. So doctor Hunted U c l A doctor and Christina roman At U c l A and Dr Stacey Summit USC has done a fear
bit of work. So we actually came in and tried to add to that, and one was really digging into the lived experiences of black professionals and I think we found, you know, across the many individually, Dad, I think we divie would over fifty professionals in depth in addition to the broader Black leg collective, and we catalog Carol forty five pain points all the way from how you get an internship, getting paid well enough they can take that internship,
to getting an agent, to getting your projects stereotyped, to the visions on certain around things like you're in makeup, the perspective on what your public is worth based on what market it will and we're not selling. So all these pain points add up again that this massive value destruction and what I would you know, point people to is the real loss potentially around the creative art form.
How many additional great projects from black credits could we have had if we had these conditions that negated these fortified pain points that black professional space has been navigated the industry right, Well, yeah, there's a quote in the in the research one creative executive saying, quote, when studios are looking for black content, they're looking for Wakonda or poverty, with no in between. And then talk about black actors who have to say, who explained, I have to take
stereotypical work because that's what's out there. But then when I when I take those roles, they say that's all I'm capable of. So it's this vicious cycle, Nina. One thing I want to get to before we leave. We've just got about a minute left here. What's the black
tax i? It represents something that we see across society. Um, And it's unfortunate this notion that you have to work harder, essentially pay dues at a certain level before you can get to just even an even playing field, and that makes entry into the into the entertainment industry in particular
extraordinarily difficult. Um Sheldon alluded to the fact that many of the entry points are in jobs that don't pay a living weight, so that immediately restricts the number of people you can come and if you are not from a background, and you don't have a family or other means of support during this time, you find yourself unable to compete, and then you look up and people who started with you are far ahead of you because they didn't have to take a second job to support themselves
doing their first job. They sent that time at home reading scripts and and and networking and do the things that advanced them in their career. And I can think of several examples. Well, you know, I hope we can continue this conversation in the future because I think it's great that you guys have put out this research and now people have something that they can work off of it, because now it's got to lead to hopefully actions to make a change. Mckensey partner, Sheldon Lynn, thank you so much.
Nina Shaw, attorney and founding partner at black Light Collective. This is Bloomberg