You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stenovic on Bloomberg Radio. So you know all of you been listening and watching throughout the week. We've had a focus an honor of birthday that is
this Saturday. All this week we've been tapping into our climate, talking about sustainable food production and agriculture, eliminating food risk and as a result, helping to reduce the massive negative contribution that agg and food waste make to climate change. Waste generally, you know, Maddie, it is a big risk to our planet. We all make a lot of garbage and it's just really hurting us.
No, it's so true, and I think there's a lot of misconceptions about recycling, and the Recycling Partnership has some thoughts on how we can all be better stewards of our planet. So here to tell us all about it is the CEO of the Recycling Partnership, Keith Harrison, joining us in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. Thank you so much for coming in person to sit with us.
It's great to be here today, loving this.
How are you doing.
Oh, it's been beautiful day in New York City. I've been walking all around glad to be here.
Well, we were so excited to have you in person with us. Give us like the top line here, recycling does it work?
So worth the effort, also worth the effort of improving it. Recycling Partnership is a nonprofit and I built us nine years ago because I knew we needed a better option. We needed a better system in the US, and that's what we're after.
We'll go backwards because I remember growing up in our grade school, we did paper drives all the time and my family, we you know, stored our papers, tied them up and brought them in, you know, a huge station wagon full of papers. What is it that hasn't been working? Because we've been doing this for a long time.
We all have.
Offices where we separate out garbage. Go to different states and they separate things multiple ways depending on the state that you live in. What hasn't been happening? So take us back there and give us kind of a snippet of what's going on.
We all learned about recycling in third grade. We understood that it was good for the planet, good to do. Put your your bottle, your can in the bin take your papers back for the drive. So why are we still talking about this? Well, I have a quiz for you. You're ready, Okay, I'm ready. How many recycling programs are there in the US?
Oh my god, I have no idea to.
Nine thousand different recycling programs. So when you're like, why can I recycle that here but not there? What happens? Why is that nine thousand? Now? I bet a lot of people listening to this story think about supply chains, thinks about business. If we pull back and we understand, like, what is recycling? At its core? It's a feedstock for manufacturing. What feeds feedstocks starts at nine thousand different points. That is a really tricky supply chain. So when we ask
ourselves why isn't recycling working like we want? We have to ask have we really built it? Or has it organically grown? The answer is a second, Right, it's grown over time?
Is it basically because states could do what they want, cities could do what they want. Is it just a simple as.
Nine thousand different do what you want? And that's the way that we work.
Right?
Communities are different. We travel from one place to another and some do some things better than others. And we've put recycling on the backs of communities, and I think it's time to ask should they be paying for that? Is that their job? We all want it to just work better? So what would make it work better? Well, there's an important role for policy to play here.
So what would be the dream if you got to be, you know, the president tomorrow?
What would it look like?
I have written that down. I think about that a lot. So what does good recycling look like? It means a couple of things. One everyone can. Right now, forty million American families cannot equitably recycle. They have to drive it, they have to pay more. They just can't do it that forty million households. So one everyone can. Two everyone does, and they know what to put in. They trust it. They know what to do with those yogurt cups, those boxes. They understand.
We don't. I still don't know whether I'm supposed to rinse them out. I still do it.
And you feel stressed out about it?
Right, I'm really serious, Like I'm like, oh, this isn't going to be recycled, so like you know, but so.
So in the future, everyone can. Everyone does, because you know, clean and dry in the bin, don't overstress about it and what goes in. That's the goal of what we're working towards. But we're not there yet. We can go deep. What is your question?
In the but clean and the dry does everything that should that is divided up, that is clean and dried in the bin? Does it actually get recycled?
That's the big question, and I think that's on the mind of public. Can I trust that this is worth my effort?
And can I ask you? Can I just tell you why? Because our kitchilll and team wrote a Bloomberg BusinessWeek's story I think it was last month. It tracked Plastic Bag's two thousand mile journey across season continents quote revealing a nether world of contractors, brokers and exporters and a messy reality that looks like a less like a virtuous cycle and more like passing the buck. Those were the words of our Kitchiel who wrote this story. It was incredible.
So it didn't go where we all thought it.
Was going to go. In that case, it did not go as smoothly as anyone would want it to go. Is that the ideal? No, So in the system that we design, everyone can everyone does, and we know the fate that you can trust that it turns into something new. So for every one story of things not going well like that, there are a zillion stories of things going well. Yogurt cups turning into car parts, cans turning into more cans,
plastic bottles turning into carpet. But the public here's one story about that, and they think, WHOA, I've been tricked. And everyone is so careful, you know, has their ear open for a trick right now. So it's a scary time. So why did that bag turn out that way? I think it's because we don't have a system. We have this loosely connected, highly dependent network that we think of as one thing recycling, but it's actually a whole bunch
of stuff. Now, the fact that it left the US to go get recycled somewhere is that innately bad noe? Not at the not necessarily. There's lots of recyclables imported and exported, just like there are purses imported and exported everything, So recyclables function like that too. But do we need more oversight into how things are designed for recycling, how the systems are run, and who pays for them. One hundred percent. That's policy, and that policy.
Is that something that you would hope for at the federal level or where do you expect to see that shift?
Well, right now we're seeing it at the state level. Four states California and Colorado, Oregon, and Maine have passed extended, well even bigger extended producer responsibility. And so what that means if you're a producer a company that makes packaging, you are responsible for putting money into a kitty that makes sure that the system in that state can take it. And there's variable fees, so if it's designed for recyclability,
you pay less. If it's not, you pay more. But what it's doing is shifting the economics to say, one, we need a better system, two we need a stuff designed for that system, and the economics of it need to deliver the returns both for the planet and our pockets.
Keith, I want to ask you, Oh, I'm sorry, good.
No, it's it sounds like the pain that is on the company, not the consumer.
Right, we're shifting. We're shifting that. We're saying, company is not just enough to design it to be recycled. Company, we need you to be there to make sure that it actually happens, and and and putting.
How do we do that though as a company.
Well, it's it's through a network. This is why I think the Recycling Partnership is pretty interesting. So we're a nonprofit and we're funded almost entirely by corporate entities, and a lot of times you could say, wait a minute, then who's calling the shots here? But I think we need more nonprofits like the Recycling Partnership because we were designed to insist and assist. Now what does that mean?
When a company makes a pledge to recycle more? We say, great, we want to help you do that, but we don't we know that that's not your subject matter expertise, that's our So we're going to insist you get there, and we're going to assist help you do it. We bring in subject matter experts. So I think you need transparency, you need data, you need open books to really see that the material is going where it should be going in the recycling system.
Do you feel like and we're talking with Keith Harrison, CEO of the Recycling Partnership here in studio. We've got about a minute and then we'll come back and talk some more. But I do wonder you know ESG certainly under the microscope and for good reasons. As we try
to really create more transparency, are we moving? Is there a will to move towards greater transparency when it comes to things like recycling, whether what a company is doing, and really the impact of understanding versus just you should be recycled. We create products that can be recycled, but you know once it leaves, you know, a company or manufacturer, it's out of their hands, right.
I think that that call for transparency is across the board, and it's not just how is a product design, but what's the system there and how do you follow? Just like you said earlier that they follow those plastic bags, we follow it all the way through and make sure what we intend to happen happens. And that's how you present prevent greenwashing. But that's also critical to a healthy system, which is what we want. Recycling will protect the natural resources.
We all need this to happen, but it's calling out for better controls and better oversight.
We're going to continue this conversation because I am curious about what are the conversations you're having with companies because they can do a lot but again, if you don't have one kind of big system, it's still going to be tricky to really provide the efficiencies and the impact. We're going to come back with Keith Harrison. See you have the Recycling Partnership here in our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. I'm still not sure our do I runs everything.
I think we need to ask a couple more like do's and domes in the next In the next go around here, we'll bet well, we'll tease that.
Ahead for people.
We're back with Keith Harrison, the CEO of the Recycling Partnership, and in the break we were talking a lot about those instant delivery grocery services. I use Instacart, there are plenty of them. But your groceries, Keith, they come in those reusable bags that are supposed to be great for our environment. But we were saying, I am personally drowning in these reusable bags. I know that's an incredibly privileged, privileged position to be in, but what do I do?
So? I think this is the very nature of this conversation. Right, people want to do the right thing, but it's pretty easy to say I don't want to choose the plastic container, So I'm going to choose paper. I don't want to use the single use bag. I mean use the cloth one. But then the sticks actually get higher when you get up up the chain on heavy duty materials, and so the responsibility of making sure that you do something is
there with those reusable grocery bags. I would have to look for a donation place for that.
But I think the so I guess the question is like, have we exchanged a bad problem for an even bigger problem.
I think we have. And it's all rooted in the we want to buy our way out of this or we need We're not we're looking for the quick fix when really what our society relies on is convenience and serving busy people. Every person listening to this show right now has a million things going on between their company, their family, their next steps, and they don't need to be spending time worrying about do I need to rinse my peanut butter container or do I just put it
in the bin. And that's why that's why the recycling partnership exists, is we're trying to pull together the public and the private sectors and overhaul this whole system. So this public doesn't have to think about recycling all the time. The system exists. The system exists, so you can just
recycle without thinking. And here's how you get here. Okay, One, you pass legislation that you changes the economics, that communities aren't carrying the bill, carrying this on their backs, that they're not paying for this, that the economics are paid for by the same companies that are producing it. Make that whole system better organized, to make sure that what's designed for recycling is recovered. So we're going to not just hope for the best, but we're going to make
sure that it's designed and recovered there. Now, we did a report. We answered this question, what would it take to fix the US recycling system? Now, how do I define that? Can people recycle? Do people will recycle? And is the infrastructure there? The price dig seventeen billion dollars? What we can find seventeen billion dollars And here's the deal, thirty billion dollar return, A thirty billion dollar return in resource conservation and US jobs. I think that's an investment
we can't afford not to make. And you know what, we could do it in five years and talk about something else. What would you like to talk about.
Well, what I'm curious is would you go to Washington or talk to somebody in Washington. Is there any will to do something like this? It's not expensive, but I'm just curious.
So I've worked in recycling for twenty five years. I ran a recycling program, I worked for the state of North Carolina doing grand Site. I was a contractor with Boozellen working on EPA stuff. So I've worked all across the different sectors. And what I found is that everyone wants the same outcome, just make it work, but everyone wants it for a different reason. And so we need a marriage counselor like someone who's saying, this is what
our words mean. And for the first time though in this twenty five years of working on this, it's only been the last two three years that federal policy makers have been saying, hey, what's my role in it? And I think that's great. So there is a huge role for federal policy because, as I said before, break four states have passed state level policy. But that's a hodgepodge approach that's better than the nine thousand different programs we
have now. But think about what happens if we have one one where things are designed for system things are recovered, and we get to address things like equitable access, the environmental justice component of equal services.
So is the marriage counselor potentially the EPA and or the SEC. So you kind of dealing with publicly traded companies that there's a component that they're measured on, which is something we talk a lot about when it comes to environmental impact and kind of doing it right and recycling certainly could be a big part of it, probably should. And then the EPA. I don't know, like, how do you see it that it plays out.
I think there's a there's probably a lot of marriage counselors here. The Recycling Partnership as a nonprofit is one that pulls together the public and the private sector, big company, small companies, every human in this country. But I think there is a role for regulation. There is a role for standards. I'm really interested in data. How do we
measure progress transparency for the flow of material. You know, I'm keeping an eye on the UN Global Plastics Treaty that's going to be a legally binding instrument to align for some common standards. I think that if I was running a company that made stuff, I'd have my eye on that because it's gonna have what is that? So,
the UN Global Plastics Treaty. I'm headed to Paris next month for the second I incs that the International Negotiating Committee of this globally binding Plastic and Plastic Pollution Reduction Instrument. And what that means is we can't just keep trying to solve things here and there. We need to have a common approach across countries. And so will the UN have something that's really his teeth in it? That's yet
to be seen. But what is happening is that companies are paying attention of do I want to wait to be told what to do or do I want to do that now? And that's the questions we get. So we work with nearly one hundred major global companies that either make stuff we use every day or sell stuff we use every day, and they are aligning on common goals.
What are they doing? What is the biggest change you're seeing that make?
So the biggest change is that they're understanding it's not just what they do inside their four walls, but what they do outside of their four walls, meaning what happens to the bags inside your apartment or what happens with your paper that your family makes, that it has somewhere to go. So the biggest shift I see is our companies who are saying, Okay, I need to make sure that the infrastructure is there. Otherwise my goals will not be met. Not because I didn't design something, but because
those forty million American families just can't do it. If we can't do it, then don't tell the public to do it.
So is it going to mean ultimately we continue kind of doing what we're doing, but just amp it up and maybe there's more divisions of plastic glass I don't know, and then and then there is a place and just got about thirty seconds. I'm just trying to well.
So out of ESG, you know, the thing that worries me most out of ESG is just this hot pot of opportunities where people are throwing money at, you know, venture ideas here and there that don't ladder up to system change. I think we have to stop and pause, use things like federal policy and the UN Global Plastic Streaty to create consistency and shine a light on measurable transparent parency for change.
Can we do like biggest mistake consumers make.
Oh quick, all right, I'm right, oh the biggest Yeah, well I think, uh, let's do some real fast so pizza boxes. Put them in caps on bottles, leave them on, clean and dry on your materials, but you don't have to run them through the dishwasher. And the number one thing is, if you're in New York City, you use bags to recycle outside your apartment, but in most places in the country, don't bag your recyclables inside your cart.
Leave them loose. That's the best way to make sure that those all those beautiful recyclables get turned into something else.
Just throw them in a can and just empty.
Just throw them in your recycling bin, your recycling cart, keep them empty.
Really cool stuff.
Thank you, come back after.
Paris Harrison, CEO the Recycling Partnership here in studio