Pfizer’s Promising Early Vaccine Data

dot com. If you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. All right, we do want to focus in on, of course, the virus today. We really have some highs and lows when it comes to COVID nineteen. We of course have talked about the COVID nineteen vaccine being developed by Fiser preventing more infections in a study. So that

is definitely the good excuse me, the good news. The rough news, of course, being cases in the US topping a hundred thousand for a fourth day, bringing the nation's total close to the ten million mark. So a lot going on. Let's get to it with Dr Josh Sharfstein. Weis Stein for Public Health Practice and Community engagement at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health of Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg,

of course, founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Sharfstein joining us on the phone in Baltimore, So nice to have you here with us. So you wake up and see these headlines about fiser and you think, what, that's great news. I mean, it's certainly great to see this kind of promising data. We know that it's got to be validated. People are gonna look at it. We know they're you know, even have to be more safety

data collected. But you know, the big question before now was whether or not evidence of an immune response was really evident that people wouldn't get the disease. And that answer appears to be yes. But the vaccine isn't just giving people antibodies, it's actually protecting them from getting sick. I mean, this is huge, this is massive. At the same time we talked about this, Dr Charfstein at the top of our broadcast, that an important development, right, It's

kind of what we've all been working towards. But we kind of need to slow down because it of course means now we have to kind of make and produce and manufacture the vaccine and create the quantity that the world needs. Well, the first thing is to make sure the results bear out. You know, there will be a chance for the Food and Drug Administration to really look

at the data. There will be an independent advisory committee that will look at the data, um, and you know that those are really important checks to make sure that we're dealing with it's an effective vaccine for the for the population. Um. The good news is though that the company has already started making the vaccine, So it's not a case typically you might wait to see the review of the data and then you'd start making it for

in quantity. But um, the companies here and the other companies too, they're making vaccine so that if it turns out the vaccine works, you know they have it right away. And so the company is projecting maybe ten million doses by the end of the year, which is you know, it seems like a lot, but of course it's not enough for you know, the world or the United States. But it's a pretty good start. It's not ten million

doses two years from now. You know, they've really been working very hard to get this going, and so it creates, you know, the opportunity the other you know, part of the good news here is that the protein that is the target of those you know, it's sort of the the key aspect of the vaccine um is also targeted

by other vaccines. So I think there's some optimism that if this vaccine works, that the other vaccines which are in late age clinical trials, will also work, and that will mean we're not just dealing with scaling up one vaccine, but maybe a number of vaccines, which hopefully all will be very effective. Right, And as you said, we need to get through all the safety steps to make sure that. I mean, key to this is people who want to take it, and I do wonder the more that we explain.

I mean, there are people who are just anti vaccinations, and that's kind of a group that has felt that way before COVID, But there are people who I think because we've seen this process politicized that it's it's made

people a little bit nervous about taking it. You know, what confidence do you have in terms of the steps that are being taken on a safety level that ultimately the vaccines, vaccines that are out on the market will be safe ones and ones that should be taken by all Americans or those that you know, as many as

it can can be. Well, I think that the Food and Drug Administration put out some very reasonable standards for safety, and that's why the company is still collecting data for safety UM to really make sure there at least a couple of months of very good safety data showing a very safe vactin and you know, so that does give me confidence, but it's also important to realize that vaccines are going to be given to a lot of people and there may be UM different kinds of safety UH

signals that come up over time, and so it's just as important to continue monitor for safety and monitor for the data and effectiveness and be able to adjust the vaccine program as that changes over time. If you have very strong safety data at the beginning, it's going to be very helpful to saving lives, but you're still going to need to keep an eye on safety even as UM the you know, the number of cases come down.

We're gonna do some news and come back. But just in about forty seconds, is there anything in terms of vaccines given to older people versus younger people. Um, is there any difference in terms of the safety or the ability for an individual to to deal with it? Does that have anything to do at the age? Well, that's a great question, and that's one of the reasons that the data really needs to be reviewd carefully to look

to see if there's a difference by age. There haven't been childs and children yet, but you know, um, people younger adults versus older adults. It's a really important question because the older adults are really at risk for serious at the highest rest for serious illness and death, and so that will be what the FDA looks at, will be what the BBC looks at when they're determining their recommendation.

And that's why it's it's really important to realize that it's not just you know, we have a vaccine and we don't have a vaccine, but all of these individual questions add up to its strong vactine strategy. So in our first block, Dr Sharfstein, we talked about really some of the positive news surrounding the FISER developments today and the end to end a COVID nineteen vaccine On the flip side, because I feel like it's been a day

of highs and lows. We're watching cases in the U s topping a hundred thousand for a fourth day, nation's total close to the ten million mark. I was talking to as I mentioned UM, the head of a pharmaceutical company saying, get ready for some pretty dark days come this winter here in the United States. How do you see the next few months playing out when it comes to COVID nineteen. Well, this is a really difficult time. And it's not just a number of cases. It's a

number of hospitalizations. We have places in the country where there are no hospital beds for sick patients and they're having to build new hospital goals or airless patients out. Those regions could grow. Um, the healthcare system could really be pushed to the limit or pass it in different parts of the country, and then deaths are increasing. So this is a really difficult time. I think the vaccine announcement, if nothing else, tells us that we're not um stuck

in this situation forever. We The more vigilant we can be, the more we can do now to fight against the virus. Those are lives that we're saving, because if we can get a safe and effective vaccine and be able to distribute it. Um, then we want as many people to make it to that point as possible. So hopefully it is a little bit of the you know, the inspiration for people to continue to wear masks, to continue to distance to protect themselves and others to not go to

big indoor parties. And and and if if more people can realize like, look, all I gotta do is make it a few more months, um, you know, into one and maybe we can all put this behind us to a really robust vaccination efforts, then um, this would you know,

will help people? I think through this time. I can't tell you how many times I have that conversation at home, um, with my daughter seventeen, and actually with family members who you know, when we even think about doing something together, it's like, I've come this far, why would I risk it at this point? Um? What is the difference about

the cold though? Does it make it tougher? I mean, obviously it makes it tougher that we've got to be indoors, right, and if we're collecting indoors with other people, that it just increases our chances of potentially of getting COVID nineteen. But there's there also something just about um the virility of the virus of COVID nineteen during colder weather. I think nobody really knows that for sure, but probably there's

something there. But the bigger issue is that people are together indoors, and we know now a lot about how the virus is transmitted, and you know, a lot of people indoors without wearing masks. It's like rolling out the red carpet for the virus. And you know that obviously the big problem with this virus is that it can it transmits when people don't know they're even sick. And so you know, you can think you're totally fine and lo and behold, you know you've gotten a lot of

people infected. I mean, we're now on our third outbreak at the White House where they're testing you know, everybody all the time, and it's not helping because they weren't i think, taking you know, all the precautions in addition to doing the testing. So everybody's got to realize, like, not even a negative test should um make you feel competent. Um. I know that there's some parties where people say we'll

just get tested and come to the party. That is not a excuse to not wear masks could be distanced because people can really get sick. You know, you mentioned the White House, you know, President elect Joe Biden announced a new thirteen member Coronavirus Task Force. We heard about it, um and earlier today and certainly over the weekend as well.

That's January. And I do wonder what you're thinking about as you watch, because the federal government is so important in this process, and I know that there's without getting political concerns that we really haven't had um an or organized you know, unilateral strategy when it came to COVID nineteen. Um what needs to continue to happen until we get to the next administration and what does the new administration

need to make sure that they do come January? Well, I think right now it's great that the president of active created a scientific group that's going to not only advise him but also helped educate the public about the critical things that can be done to reduce the spread of the virus in this difficult time. I'd like to see a lot of cooperation between the transition and the administration, you know, I think that's going to be very important.

We're really in a battle against the virus, and we you know, I don't want to have a really abrupt, difficult transfer power in the middle of all that, because it'll just slow down what we can do to save lives. So I think that's gonna be important. You know, the Biden transition has a series of priorities that are on its website about the coronavirus, including making sure there's an uprotective equipment for people who are essential employees are in healthcare,

making sure that there's a national testing strategy. Those are very good priorities, and I think, um, the you know, the important thing is going to be to be prepared to start executing those priorities as soon as they're able to take over. Yeah, it's certainly a full plate. Um. Dr Sharfstein, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time.

Dr josh Sharfstein. He's VISTINE for Public Health Practice and Community Engagement, director of the Bloomberg American Health Initiative at Johns Hopkins University of course, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. This is Bloomberg Business Week with

Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. So we are definitely starting to hear more about a Biden white house, the players involved, the people who may take some of the top spots of his administration in the meantime, What might Abiden white house be like and what economic policies might he pursue all bloom Burg business Week Economics editor Peter coy he writes about that, He writes about bonomics and returned to normalcy. Let's get into it with Peter. He joins us on

the phone from New Jersey. Also with the s Bloomberg business Week editor Joel Webber, He's on the phone in Brooklyn. We're looking forward here, Joel, trying to um and and part of this was, like, you know, the one of the scenarios that we had to uh kind of plan for last week was you know, eventually and ended up

coming on Saturday. You know, what, what what does this country look like under President elect Biden, and more specifically, what does it mean for business and the economy and and for that you know, Peter ko Um, you know, definitely raised his hand and said I think I know, uh, and we said, oh, please tell us. So, So, Peter, what's your what's your thesis for what Bidenomics means for America. Well, it comes out of what we know about Joe Biden,

his long history in Congress and Senate, and his personality. Uh, and the circumstances the country is in right now. So you you step away from all those things and you come up with a fairly centrist person in a country that is divided. Um, he did win, but if there are a lot of people, the Republicans that are likely to control the Senate, there's a lot of people out there who voted for him who mainly were voting against Trump,

and more for personality reasons than policy reasons. So he doesn't have like a strong mandate A and let me do it. Biden's way number one and number two. Um, number two is that even if he did want to advance a strong Democratic platform, Mitch McConnell is very likely to retain the position of cinema jarity leader won't let him the same way he blocked Obama's agenda when Biden was a VP. So I gotta say, Peter, love your story.

As always, we always learned so much, but I do wonder so as to point out, you know, divided Congress and a Republican Senate with the Democrat in the White House could be good for the markets the corporate profits, right, but what does it mean for the economy and economic policies. Yeah, well, let's first start out with why the stock market seem

to like it. Um, you might have thought that because the the chance of a strong stimulus fated a little bit, because the Republican Senate might have given a big if Trump had gotten reelected, might have voted for a big package just to bolster their man. Less likely to do so if it's a Biden white house. Uh. Similarly, there would have been a big package if Democrats had taken the Senate and Biden at once, and with divided government you get probably less stimulus. That's a short term thing.

But it could be that what was happening the financial markets were looking ahead to the prospect of smaller tax increase than they would have had if the Democrats had taken the Senate, which seemed like a real possibility for a while there. Peter, can we also talk about taxes?

What what do we expect from Biden on that front? Well, well, we can say what he said he wants to do, which is insulate people earning less than four hundred thousand dollars a year from any tax increase UH and raised the corporate income tax rate, which was cut under the Trump tax cut from thirty five. The right was on the world's highest. Well, there's a lot of loopholes in it that made it effectively lower in there, but still

that headline rate was quite high at twenty one. It's it's right in the ballpark, maybe on the low side among the other rich industrialized nations. Biden is talking about putting back up at twenty eight UM, so splitting the difference between the old one and the new one. It's also talking, by the way, for people in the New York metro area who are listening to his program, lifting the cap on the assault on deductions to make it

that would be a break for people. Can I just say having um embarrassed, but filing on extension, just getting it done. It'll be interesting to see if we have some changes and from one of those blue states where we were impacted certainly when it came to some of those local taxes. You know what's interesting is, you know, you say Trump did get a lot of things done, even if you didn't agree with how he did it. So what do we need to think about in terms

of those things that he did get done well? Um. One of the things he did was he got um tougher on China and the absolutely a lot of tariffs. And there are a lot of Democrats who think it was time to get tough on China. The thoughts the Obama administration, which Biden worked for, of course did not do enough, but they don't necessarily agree with the way Trump went about it. Um. What what Trump did was

trying to basically it alone. So he didn't just take on China, took on the world, and that alienated a lot of allies, the Japanese, the Europeans who could have been on America's side presenting a united front against China. And so one of the things Biden is almost certain to do is to uh you know, bolster America's role in the World Trade Organization, uh see about entering multilateral

trade deals. He's not likely to roll back the tariffs on China um that Trump put on any time soon, because he would want to see you know, you want to get something for any anything you give back, and China is not likely to budget a lot either so don't don't expect the temperature to cool a whole lot between the US and China under a Biden administration, let alone the issue that the Democrats will push a lot

harder on the human rights angle. So, Peter, you know, we might have you know, a less confrontational tone about many things traded among them, and we might see America renner the Paris climate of cor We might see you know, even even additional help for middle class Americans. Um, there's this other note that you read about, which is, you know, we could also just have like somewhat of a return to normal. Can you remind me what normal even looks like?

In thirty seconds? So, Peter, long time, isn't it. I'm just saying that, Uh, you know that. But Trump was has been a chaos president. Even people who support him say that is it's not just coming. So is that? Uh? In some ways that's his m O and he thought it worked for him. Biden is not that kind of person. He's the middle of the road. He's a prison with gravitas.

So I would expect some more calm coming in the next four years, a little a little namastay for everyone who's out there, I'm just going to put it out there, all right, Peter koy. Um, Like I said, we always learned something when we talk to you. Bloomberg Economics Editor Peter coy on the phone in New Jersey. Joe Webber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week, on the remote access from Brooklyn. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Kirol Messer on Bloomberg Radio.

So four thousand people walk out at noon on January twenty, and not four thousand walking. I'll say several hundred walking because it takes time to process people. It's taking control of UM, you know, a hundred federal agencies, UM, National security, homeland security, UM. There's a lot of things that have to happen, and it has to happen seamlessly. Yeah. That was from our conversation Friday with Chris Leu, former Deputy Secretary of Labor under the Obama administration. He's now a

senior fellow at the University of Virginia Miller Center. He was Chris was executive director of Barack Obama's two thousand eight transition teams. So he understands what it's like when there is the changing of the guard, and that really is our top story at this hour about a Biden white House, but also about the changing of the guard the White House is President Trump uh is expected to be gone come January, of course, and Joe Biden and

his team go in in January. There's a lot going on, So let's bring in Bloomberg News Politics editor Wendy Benjaminson on the phone from Washington, d C. So, Wendy, we're going to talk about what a Biden white House looks like, because we know we're getting more and more on that. But man, what a Monday? What a weekend? What a weekend? Did you sleep at all? Um, a little bit last night, maybe for the first time and in the week but yeah, no, it's it was. It's all great. It's always exciting to,

you know, be part of history. And that's one of the what happened over the weekend. Well, it does certainly feel like and today is an interesting one. I feel like we're talking a lot more about what a Biden white House looks like ultimately. But before we do that, we had some changes in the Trump administration. Mark Asper

is out. Yes, it appears that um, the President, Donald Trump by tweet fired Asper, the Defense Secretary, and we placed him with someone who works at a different national security agency, Chris Miller, And UM, it's not we're not even sure that's possible. UM. But it's all very you know, reminiscent of UM of the last four years. I mean

Asper Secretary. Asper did not go along and publicly did not go along with Trump's UM request for the invoking of the Insurrection Act, which would allow the US military to operate against Americans on American soil. UM. It's rarely used, I think the last time, I mean it came up during the Civil War obviously, UM, but the UM but he refused to go along with that and put out a statement saying so and I guess um the president was waiting until to see what the election was, but

decided to fire him anyway. Does this happen a lot? I mean, after let's say there's an incumbent um loses his second term, or even someone in their second term. Did they and just to start to clean house and make changes at this point in the game. No, they people. That was not an easy setup. It was a really pure naive question, you know. But what's normal is that these people, you know, they see the writing on the wall.

They're highly professional, highly thought after people. They know there's going to be a lot of competition, and they all start looking for jobs on their own. Um Traditionally, the White House does um it. The incoming administration ask for a lot of holdovers resignations, and then decides to rehire the ones that wants to rehire. That's usually when the same party takes over. But no, the president doesn't usually fire people that they know we're going to be out

in seventy days anyway. Yeah, well, what do you think is going on? Or what do you here? I shouldn't say think what are you hearing in terms of what's going on in the Trump White House right now? We certainly are. We're all reading in over the weekend about kind of some tensions between people in terms of how they thought the president should should move forward from here, And I do I am curious about the outlying kind

of legal questions concerning the counting of votes. Right so, that process continues, and this is a process that you know, Republicans say, and that a lot of people seem to agree that he has every right to ask for a recount, He has every right to make sure all the ballots are counted, but anyone who looks at the numbers objectively sees that there are not enough left outstanding ballots for

him to make up the difference. He is down by at least five million votes right now across the country and in key states, even where it's closed, there are not enough votes outstanding to to change the outcome of the election. Um, and even Republican secretaries of State in the states are the people who run the elections in the states, are saying there is no or no evidence of widespread voting irregularities and nothing that would change the outcome.

So there's a lot of people in the president's inner circle who are saying, you know, we're going to fight this out and we're going to file all these lawsuits. And Rudy Giuliani was its landscaping company in Philadelphia holding a news conference, and yet there are people in his inner circle saying, Okay, it's over, you lost, let's go. Yeah.

It's kind of interesting. Yeah that landscaping company. UM, I think it was one of the most uh something that was getting an awful lot of buzz over on social media, certainly over the weekend and uh certainly today. Hey, so I do wonder what about those Senate races, so that we've got to wait a little bit longer, correct to get the outcome. Yes, Um, this happens in a lot of Southern states, particularly whether if someone doesn't get fifty percent of the vote at the top two finishers then

go to a runoff. And um, in this case, we have to wait till January five. And the outcome of those does depend does I mean the the party control of the Senate does depend on the outcome of those races. So, UM, there's a lot of nervous people. There's probably a lot of money going down to Georgia. Um, there's going to be a big fight. But Georgia, even though it looks like Biden one Georgia, it's a pretty conservative state overall, and it really could be that, Um, that they will

end up voting for Republican senators. But it's anybody's guess right now. So what does this all mean for? Right? So we've got we've got to wait to see who actually is in control of the Senate. Um. And I do wonder if you're getting any indications of how quickly some kind of stimulus measures, whether it's before January, do we have to wait till after January. What are we

getting on that front? Because I feel like that's the second leg to the COVID nineteen news that we got today from Fiser that will kind of give some support and lift certainly to the economy. And just got about thirty seconds. Then we'll come back and do some more. Sure it's a very good point, um, anybody's guests. I mean, there are Democratic senators that are saying, Okay, we see the direction of the country's going, let's let's get a stimulus.

Though Ms McConnell is having an availability today, we'll see what he says. But I'm my guess is the mood isn't there among Republicans? All right, Wendy, I knew you guys, you have all been over all on it in terms of looking what Biden White House looks like. So let's go through some of the names. I mean, is it gonna be kind of like Obama two point oh? In some ways it is. There will be very familiar faces. Um, there will be familiar names. Um, it won't be a

complete uh you know retread. He's taking a lot of different people, and he's thinking people who had slightly you know, who were maybe under secretaries in the Obama administration who will now rise to the front of it. He has also committed were not committed. But he is also we think, planning to make history with some of his cabinet choices, putting women in at Defense and Treasury, to cabinet agencies that have yet to seen see a woman at the top.

Can I just say, reading this story over the weekend, I was like blown away and like, wait, a woman, A woman, a woman like you know, is that Joe Biden? Is that his team, is that Kamala Harris or a little bit of all of it, A little bit of all of it, but I think it's I think a

lot of it is Joe Biden. But one thing to keep in mind is that the names floating around for chiefs of staff, for the people who will be closest to Biden in the White House, just like under Obama, are going to be uh, you know, largely white men

from what we can tell. So there will be the counselors to the President, of domestic policy, chief the chief of staff, those sort of jobs that um, you know, these are just people who are talented and experienced and um uh and in their jobs and they happen to be white men. But then um, but you don't need to make but very they don't become household names either. But you know, a Defense Secretary Michelle Flornoy is at the top of the list for that, or Treasury Secretary

Leo Brandard. That's a big splashy thing. Those are very high profile people who will become household names and their women. Yeah, it's really really distinct, and um doesn't it really feels like if you think about in many ways, Wendy, the year that we've had, right and just dealing with the dual pandemic of course the virus, but also of we talked so much about systemic racism and the inequities and the qualities when we look around, you know, much of

corporate America and really still in the political world. So it looks like, you know, this could be a very big step forward. I don't know, am I over saying it or is that what it is? Potentially? Um? I think it could be. I mean, these are white women, um, and in some of these jobs, although Tomala Harris is

the vice president and that's big history making. But I do think it does address some of the inequities that the women have seen where there they are Simian, I mean, a woman of defense has been hard to do because it's always been traditional that the person would have military experience, and there just haven't been a lot of women who

have risen up in the in the military yet. Um. But the but Michelle Flournoy was was the highest ranking woman in the Pentagon during the Obama administration, and I think she ran either the budget or procurement or something where Um, I'm sorry, I don't have that at my fingertips, but she she's um, perfectly qualitified for this job. Yeah, I mean in the military, what does it tell? Does it give us an idea of what kind of administration? What kind of policies might you know, and what kind

of actions we might see from the get go? Once Biden his team step into the White House, well, I think a lot of it is going to depend on Senate control. Biden is going to, um, first name the White House jobs that the people that actually work in the White House, his top aids, Um, those don't need Senate confirmation. Those are at the UH, they serve at

the pleasure of the president and the president only. So I think he's going to probably try to start with those jobs first, um, and then partly because he wants to be careful and take his time, and partly because we don't know what the Senate confirmation process will be like. I think then he's going to between Thanksgiving and Christmas

begin to roll out some names of cabinet members. And I think if there, if it looks like there's going to be democratic control of the Senate, he might go a little further left than he would if he had to face Manch if he if this person had have to get through Mitch McConnell, and you know, they may be more moderate. What's the role of Kamala Harris, his

vice president elect, in helping shape this team. Well, he has said that she will have the same privilege that he had under President Obama, which is that she will be the last person in the room giving advice. And if if he is true to that promise to her, then by seeing no reason why he wouldn't be, there's um, then she should have a pretty big say in things. Hey, one last question, and I always love kind of what's going on behind closed doors at this point President LEC. Biden.

Is he getting all the briefings or the key ones when it comes to security, when it comes to the virus, as does Donald Trump, the president, Well, he is getting his own virus briefings from the Coronavirus Task Force that he named today. Many of these people were already advising him on the campaign. He named thirteen more today and they are going to turn his campaign promises on the virus into policy. Um. In terms of security briefings, He's

and getting those ever since he was the nominee. Okay, all right, that's how it works, hey, good stuff is always. Thank you so much, Wendy. We know your you guys are busy in the whole team in d C. So thank you so much for carving out some time for a Bloomberg News Politics editor Wendy Benjaminson. Go check out all of the DC coverage. You can find it at Bloomberg dot com. Wendy, of course, joining us from the nation's capital, brooom turn on. Yeh, but you let me

drive home, honey, please, I'll do the right drivel. I want to drive. Just drive baby, good question trying. This is the drive to the globe. Give me thanks. We'll drive up dawn on Bloomberg Radio. It is time for the drive to the clothes on this Monday, I'll be Dish Bonde is back with us, founder and chief investment officer at Centerstone Investors, joining us on the phone in Connecticut. It's so nice to have you here with us. Um. I was trying to remember, was that the last time

we talked with you was in March? Hey, Carol good be here. Yeah. I think you and I spoke last in March. I've been on the show a couple of times since then. Um, maybe I have no you weren't there, So how so how are you and what's kind of changed in terms of the market environment? Big week last week in terms of the election. We're still waiting the outcome of who is in control of the Senate. But how do you look at this market environment? We've seen

a little bit of a rotation today. Uh yeah, I mean I'm just looking at our Centerstone funds right now. We have stopped up a day, you know, But then I do remember acutely days in March when some of these same stocks are down. So the news have been

kind of extreme. Um, it's I think the environment is for us, It's it's um, you know, it's this is a kind of environment that value stocks should do well in where especially international we focused on mostly non US and UM, there's that we you know, we are so many tail winds now that we did not have. UM And ironically enough the COVID, the front those fiscal response globally to COVID has been a great has a great deal to play in that, or has not a great

deal of playing that. So for US, UM, I think we're doing We're sitting in a sort of the sweet spot. UM. That said, you know, we were not I mean for most of the year or maybe even like the last or three years. It's just recently that things have started to turn our favor. So what does that mean in terms of strategy? Do you kind of hold I mean one month I'm looking at the one month performance and you guys are in I think the nineties six percent

out at least according to Bloomberg data. Um, So what does it mean in terms of strategy? Do you double down? Do you sit tight? And you think? Because you know, it's interesting when you talk about the value trade, I feel like everybody keep saying, Okay, now it's it's the time, it's the time. But as I heard David Weston sand Bloomberg radio earlier. You know, if I had you know, a nickel for every time somebody said okay, now it's the time for value value names, i'd be pretty wealthy.

But it doesn't happen. So you know, what do you think will be the lasting trade here? Or is it going to be tough to tell until we get the new administration kind of settled and we get a better feel of what new policies might come down. Um? Well that I mean, you kind of nailed it, right, I mean, how long have value people have been saying, oh, you know,

it's been this many years? Sorry, value people, you know, and I saw it really interesting, Uh, some interesting figures out the day It said that from the trailing one day to one week to one year going out thirty three years, growth has outperformed values. So that's I don't there are a lot of things that sort of point to an extreme. Um, but that's that's what these moments

are made of. I you know, I just kind of separate, like, yeah, we're value investors, but you know, I really consider ourselves more like common sense investors and that seems to come and go out of fashion. But um, when you're basing it on, you know, intrinsic value of an actual business rather than like what some opinion is of something. Um. You know, we sound more often than not that over time we you know, we end up doing just fine.

It's that time element that really is unpredictable, that it could be a year, five years, you just never know. And this this one's been a long time. So I think it's what what will transpire for us UM at Center Stone will be more more related to how the businesses perform rather than what some other policy or who's in the Senate or whatever. We kind of like, look past all that stuff. Are you still all in on gold? Yeah? We do on some gold that I see today is

taking a big hit. Um, the fundamental kind of case or goal still remains. So I mean you, I'm pretty sure the Sun has said like seventeen times now that they're not going to raise interest rates until unemployments the unemployment rates back down to where it was, particularly for the minority class, and that's going to take some time.

So you can you can have a period of time where we have inflation popping up, which is going to do soon with low rates and low negative or sorry negative interest rates, or they tend to be good for the for gold and not so great for the dollars. So in our funds were UM, then this may be kind of a popular thing to say these days. So we're we're you know, exposed to foreign equities, were foreign

exposed to foreign currencies. And we do have some golden place just in case, UM that has been with me in this fund or where you know, other funds that I've managed for a couple of decades. Now. It's not not a new thing, so UM the case where it remains the same as it was twenty years ago. UM. And and but you know it will face it. It has its own cycle, so it'll go up and down. And hey, before we go, you know, how should we as investors kind of think about the international play? I

am curious. You know, we highlighted before some of the world leaders that are coming out and congratulating a Biden Harris administration. Um, there's some that we pointed out that have been pretty quiet, including the leader of China. So I do wonder how do we as UM investors kind of think about the international investment play, the global you know, investment play as a result of a new administration, especially since you do invest overseas some thoughts there, Yeah, I mean,

thankfully right now, I don't. It really comes down to just behavior and of these economies which are all turning around UM, and you know, fiscal policies which have become very very positive or at least procyclical now in Europe especially UM. And valuations from a period starting the starting point. You know, the valuations receives are or you know not a not an immaterial discount to what you have in the United States because of this blow up in the

type industry here. So the valuation cases there, You've got the fiscal head, fiscal tail winds, got monetary policy in place, UM, you know pro you know, pro investor management teams UM in markets that have just been depressed for going on three years now. So I think personally that there is this part is the opinion part of me, not the fact part of me. Opinion partly says that we're due for a long, long period of our performance now with many things in our back. All right, Well, time will

certainly tell. I'll be good to check in with you. I'll be Dish Bonde, founder and chief investment Officer at Centerstone Investors, based in New York. But he was joining us on the phone in Connecticut on this Monday. Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or at Bloomberg dot com, and be sure to check out our daily radio show at

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