Online Detectives Take Aim at D.C. Insurrectionists

much for joining us. How are you this afternoon? Hi, thanks so much for having me. I'm doing fantastic. Thank you. Good to hear. Take us, Take us into what the last fourteen months have been like for you and and and for Moody Health. I mean, give us an idea of just how much business has increased because of the pandemic. Well, we've seen a dramatic increase of users and patients on

our platform. Obviously, during the pandemic, when things were shut down and people were staying in, having access to virtual hair as well as virtual health and well being support was critically important. So the pandemic has really um skyrocketed us and really expanded our our platforms significantly over the last fourteen months. Dr dr do are you are you offering vaccinations? No, we're not. We're a truly virtual not

even hybrid exactly. So we are a virtual platform that offers virtual care with every type of practitioner you could possibly want, so you can really get a holistic approach everything from traditional primary care to mental health, to complementary alternative life coaches, nutrition, as well as a streaming service and health memberships that allow a holistic approach to getting

the support, guidance and tools you need. I'm really curious about the holistic approach because one thing that the pandemic has done, among the many things, is that it's shown us the disparities between many different types of people in the US and around the world. And indeed, we've seen those with higher COB comorbidities suffer worse fates when they

do get sick with coronavirus. And I'm wondering if you can speak to the way that you perhaps think that we may start to actually think differently about taking a holistic approach to medicine. On the other side of the pandemic, it's such a critically important issue right now. You're absolutely right, people are really looking at their health from a different perspective.

You know what we're seeing at MOTI Health and really within the industry of health and well being care is a higher level of interest and attention to preventive health and wellness, including mental health, and the pandemics really created a significant amount of stress and emotional strain on so many who are now also in need of mental and

emotional health support. And you're completely correct when you're talking about the need for a holistic approach, more inclusive um abilities and access to people of all different backgrounds, and that's one of the reasons why a virtual health platform is such such a timely and important need right now

within the industry. So having virtual access really does create more accessibility to people being able no matter what type of income, level of background, that you are, being able to have access to whole person care to really optimize your health and well being, not only during the era of COVID decreasing risk of getting COVID or becoming extremely ill from COVID, but also on the other side of the pandemic, to really optimize your health and well being

so that you can experience health, wellness and really thrive as a human being is so important. But there is still this technology technological gap between many people in the United States, and we saw that really play out when it came to the way that people were scheduling and given access to vaccines. There were many people in the US who didn't necessarily have the technological know how in order to schedule those appointments. And I'm wondering how you

account for that with a telemedicine service. Absolutely, yes, I mean I can relate to that. I had to assist my own parents try to schedule their vaccinations. It was, unfortunately, you know, a system that was rolled out very quickly. It was an emergency um you know response, and so it wasn't necessarily set up in the most accessible way to those who are elderly or those who didn't have

access to a computer or a smartphone for example. So when it comes to platforms like ours, um, really all you need is Internet access and it's as simple and easy to use as something like a Facebook, right, So being able when it comes to health technology to make it more accessible, it's not only about having access to the physical platform, right, So that's Internet connectivity, but you really have to be designing the user experience for people

of all different technology levels and skills, right, So, in order for those who are older to be able to use these types of um future more futuristic or the direction that we're moving towards in healthcare and well being using more virtual, using more high technology, we've got to build that out and create that with the user in mind and really meeting them where they are at their technical and skill set levels and being able to help

them to have access in simple and effective ways. Dr. Do we only have about twenty seconds left, but give me an idea of some of the questions that you and your team are getting now as things start to

open back up and vaccinations continue to roll out. Twenty seconds. Yeah, so for those who are already fully vaccinated, we're seeing that, you know, the idea of getting back to normal life is really exciting, and the question that we're getting a really focusing on preventative measures to stay healthy moving forward is a higher priority than it was pretty pandemic, and so people are really assessing it what it means to be healthy. Yeah, aly, emotionally right, I can certainly I

can certainly relate to that. Dr Rachel do As, board certified doctor of Natural Medicine, also CEO and co founder of Moody Health, joins us on the phone from Los Angeles. Well, there are a few ways to get to space. You can, of course, become an astronaut. You could pay millions of dollars to hitch a ride, or you could be Jeff Bezos, who said earlier today on Instagram of all places, that next month he's going to space when his company, Blue

Origin launches its first passenger carrying mission. Let's get right into it with Ed Ludlow, who's auto reporter and covers all things space and technology at Bloomberg News. He joins us from the Bloomberg nine six am studio in San Francisco. Ed, you know, when you think about going to space and and and and hitching a ride on a rocket ship, you maybe earth saying, Okay, well I'll do it, but I don't necessarily want to be the first one. Jeff

Bezos not so much. Yeah. I mean, you know, his Blue Origin company have done fifteen consecutive successful tests, but all of those tests have one thing in common. They didn't carry any humans. Um, So I was joking a bit earlier with our colleague Matt Miller. I don't know whether it's a case of putting your money where your mouth is or your mouth where your money is. If you know what I mean. This will be the debut passenger flight for Blue Origin. You have to understand what

kind of emission it is. It's an eleven minute trip up to the Common Line that's around sixty two miles above Earth a hundred kilometers. It goes through that launch sequence that we're familiar with with Blue Origin and SpaceX, where it takes off and over the series of a few minutes, the capsule that the rockets carrying separates. It has a brief period in low Earth orbit where it then kind of falls back down to Earth and land safely with a parachute. So it's not kind of deep

space expiration we're talking about. It will be Jeff Bezos, his brother Mark Bezos, and then the eventual winner of an auction, and that the bid right now is at two point eight million, but it's open until mid June, at which point it becomes a one off live auction. The highest bid wins, so you'd expect that number to go up right two point eight million to go to space. It's like a bargain it does in plus to get a little FaceTime with Jeff Bezos, right right, exactly. And

I'm wondering specifically about the billionaire space race here. Richard Branson has has Virgin Galactic. Of course Elon Musk has SpaceX. How significant is it that that Bezos is the first among the billionaires. It's significant, and it's a complicated story because all of those companies, Virgin Galactic, Blue Origin, and space X, they all have slightly different long term aims and they also have different success so far. So as I said, this is Luor Origin has done fifteen consecutive

successful tests, but none of them carrying humans. So Jeff Bezos will be the first billionaire into low Earth orbit. But if you compare that space x is ambitions and what they've already achieved to day, they are significantly ahead. Right They've done more than a hundred five flights using Falcon rocket, They've done around fifteen test flights with different heights and static fire tests with Starship. Their ambitions are

much greater. By the fourth quarter of this year, they want to do a multi day trip with the CEO of Shift for payments. For example, where he and some other passengers will literally go into orbit for our period um, if not longer um. You know, they they aim to do space excess is to do a lunar orbit by three using starship. That lunar orbit by space X is even more ambitious than NASA's own ambitions to get real

astronauts to the Moon. Um. And and then in the middle some way you have Virgin Virgin Galactic where their billionaire owner Richard Branson should be the first passenger sometime later this summer. But that's a different kind of trajectory that that that vehicle takes. It's more like kind of taking a leap frog from a commercial or jetline and aeroplane into very lower for bit um. So you have

to kind of put that into context. And what's the ultimate goal for for Blue Origin and how it's different from SpaceX and from Virgin Galactic. Yeah, it's actually very much the same. I mean, their business is split up in the same way that space X is that they have the payload side of the business rockets that carry things into space for third parties, and they have the

space travel, the space tourism side um. You know, for SpaceX is part a lot of what we see when we do these launches on a weekly basis, that is Falcon carrying Starlink satellites or it's carrying payloads for NASA like last week. But their ambition is very clear. All of that stuff is secondary to human travel to Mars. Elon Musk has been really consistent on that, and it may be some time away, but he says that that is the mission statement for SpaceX. Last question, if given

the opportunity, would you do it? I would. I have the same answer this every time. I actually respect Elon Musk who says that he would happily die on Mars, just not on impact. That's his his quote, right, So he wants to make sure that the technology works to get their safely, and he doesn't dine at crush landing. And I would like to see some success before I signed day. I'll be behind you. That's Ed Ludlow, auto reporter at Bloomberg News, joining us from the Bloomberg nine

six am studio in San Francisco. Well. A story in the upcoming issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine focuses on what are called the sedition hunters, amateur Internet sluice who've turned Washington, d C's insurrection on January six into the ultimate online man hunt. Joining us now is Politics editor for Bloomberg Business Week, Amanda Hurley. She's on the she's from joining us from Washington, d C. And David Yoffie Bellini, legal reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us on the phone

from Washington. A man, it's hard to believe that it has been five months since the insurrection. And one thing that that just stands out to me about it is how much video footage there was of the event, watching it play out in real time here at work and then also afterward. And it turns out that this army of internet sleuths has used that footage to focus on finding and then sending to the FBI those who were responsible. Yeah,

that's right. Um, as you said, there was no no shortage of footage as well as photos and social media posts from that day. Uh So, you know, it was so much raw materials for these uh you know, amateur sleuth to dig into and UM to to kind of try to you know, piece together and cross reference as they were trying to create their own picture of exactly what what happened that day. And UM tried to kind of identify some of the people responsible. David, how successful

have these loosely affiliated group of people been. I think

they've been very successful. I mean the way I became aware of these efforts as i'm I've spent a lot of my days pouring through the arrest affidavits they're released every time somebody's charged for their involvement in the Capital riot, and you periodically see the FED reference the sort of online man hunting effort to these sleuths in those official court papers, you know, saying you were able to put together evidence to identify this person because so and so

on on Twitter made this discovery. And so that's a sort of powerful testament to how successful these groups of them. Well, as you point out in the piece, David, they don't have a perfect record when it comes to trying to identify people online. And you include an anecdote in your piece from the Boston marathon bombers, and it's one that I remembered as well, of suspects being misidentified, Um, what have they done to try to alleviate that risk a little bit? Yes, So I think as these sorts of

crowd hunting efforts has sort of grown in maturity. As the Internet has evolved over the last decade, you've seen people sort of develop rules of the road for for these types of initiatives, and so some of the main Twitter accounts that kind of organized and Mollies sedition Hunting work urged their followers not to actually post the name of anybody online. You know, if you work out their name, report that directly to the FBI. Is what these groups advise.

And you know, of course, there have been moments over the last few months where you know, sedition Hunters a deviated from that and have misidentified people publicly. It's impossible to control everyone, but I think over overall, um, the group has done a pretty pretty good job of stopping misidentifications from happening and sort of channeling these efforts in

a more responsible way. I mean, what is it that that motivates this this group of people, Well, it seems like they have some of diverse motivations, um for some of them, you know, honestly being edelduce and during the pandemic, uh, you know, it was part of it. People were at home, uh, you know, kind of cooped up. Some people were out of work, and this was a project that they could really threw themselves into UH. And you know, obviously people

felt UH. I think many of them felt a strong motivation towards justice and the sense that you know, they wanted to see these people brought to justice. And I think one of them said, you know, not just a token group either. You know, we want to see some everyone responsible brought to justice. UM. So you know, some of them feel I think angrier or more passionate than others,

but it's it's a mix of motivations. David I was surprised to read in the piece the reaction that one of these online sluice had after he used technology to identify a podcaster from from Washington who was later charged for his role in the siege. This person pleaded not guilty UM, but the person who identified him had some some sympathy for him. Yeah, I think that. I mean,

that's a I think that's an unusual reaction. First of all, I think that most of those tradition hunters doing this type of work probably don't sympathize that much with the people that they're turning into the set. But I think that particular case kind of illustrates the sort of intimacy

of this kind of kind of work. Um. You know, when you're when you're tracking somebody online and learning as much as you can about them in order if they're out, if they're actually the person in the photo, that's a kind of sort of intimate experience, and you might get a sense of them as a fuller and more you once individual than you would if you just you know, read the court papers describing what they've done on January

six the capital. So I think that's a little a little bit explains what was what was going on there. It's also certainly the case that you know, these people, the sort of online slews, you know, under understand that you know, there were bigger forces at play motivating the people who went to the capital, and a lot of them way more blame at the speed of President Trump and his his allies and they do it, you know,

at the individuals who actually showed up. Um. So, I think it's that kind of combination of factors which produces that sort of, uh, surprising reaction. David, you mentioned that the core papers that you look through sometimes cited, uh that these folks who have spent so much time online trying to identify these insurrectionists, and I'm wondering how law

enforcement officials feel about that. UM. I think they're they're grateful. UM. I mean when you talk to the FBI or the U. S. Attorney's Office in Washington working, they're constantly baying the drama need tips from the public. We need the public to help us as much as they can to identify these people because this is an investigation of really unprecedented scope, and there were so many people who showed up at the Capitol that day. UM that you know, any any

help the government can get I think is really appreciated. UM. You know, obviously the government has investigated resources that an ordinary person doesn't have. UM. But there were still so many people involved in the investigation so complex that that the help of this sort of cloudsourcing, that's what is pretty important. I mean, I just want to end talking a little bit about UM. What the vice president of the A D. L or In Siegel told David Um

that it could potentially set up a dangerous precedent here. UM. What did he mean by that? Yeah? I think, UM, touching on what you and David were talking about earlier. Uh, you know about the potential for misfires, right and for um, you know, putting uh, people's personal information out in the public domain. Uh. And you know, because of the unreeldy power of the Internet, you sort of never really know

what's going to happen. I mean, um, and uh, it can definitely expose people to risk, whether they're you know, guilty or innocent. You just have to be really really careful about that. Well, it's a fantastic story and it's available in the upcoming issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. Amanda Hurley, Politics CD at Bloomberg Business Week, David Yoffi Belny, Legal reporter for Bloomberg News. Well, barely a week after the murder of George Floyd last year, soft Bank created

the Opportunity Fund. This was a commitment to invest one million dollars in companies led by underrepresented racial minorities. And here we are a little over a year later, and SoftBank has already allocated half of the cash, and the company anticipates creating a second fund by the end of the year. Joining us now is Sarah McBride, venture capital reporter at Bloomberg Knew. She joins us on the phone from San Francisco. Sarah, I was just reading from your

your story right there about SoftBank's Opportunity fund. What are the companies that it's so far committed to supporting. What has the bench and they are super diverse. UM in its portfolio are tens of companies from all around the country. There is a healthcare UM company that I spoke to for my fund. There's UM a company that UM developed software people operations called Gather. There are some education companies, really anything you can imagine in the diverse venture capital funds.

The difference being that all the founders represent UH minorities that have had trouble attracting venture capital traditionally. Yeah, and these are these are minority entrepreneurs traditionally, as you point out in your piece, have have rarely had access to to seed capital. UM. You have the statistic that is absolutely startling here of those who receive venture capital from the years sixteen, only four two percent we're black Hispanic

that's according to a Harvard Business School study. Does it look like that it's getting any better? I have to stay. Given all the initiatives that started last year, it has to be getting better. UM. The reason I looked at this a year later was I wanted to make sure that wasn't just talk that all the people who had come out and promised to focus on this issue were in fact doing so. And I'd say that spending down or allocating half of a million dollar fund in a

year is a really good sign of progress. They weren't the only ones, they were just the largest. And I checked up on some of the others that also appear to be following through on their promises from last year.

So I think a difference is being made. And soft Bank told me I spoke to a partner shoe THEATA who's uh taking the initiative on the Opportunity Fund, and he told me he thinks the biggest difference can be made at the seed in Series A stages, in other words, the very earliest stages, and that by giving money to such young companies, they hope that it'll make difference down the line. So I think it will only be able to measure success in a few years, but there's a

big effort. Yeah. And as it goes with venture capital, right, the idea that is is and and look, and this is the idea of venture capital is you you support a lot of a lot of companies early on in their development, and by definition, many of them will not work out, and it's the home runs that end up being grand slams, right exactly. One of the more interesting firms that I spoke to UM comes out of Atlanta.

It's called Collab Capital, and it's led by investors including Verry Gibbons, and he was taking a non traditional spin on venture capital and saying, look, the problem with under investment in black run firms isn't just the companies that aspire to be unicorns and grow into billion dollar businesses. It's also just regular business this around the neighborhood. They're

having trouble getting capital too. So he's for his firm taking a look at companies that may be aspire to just have a few million dollars in revenue too, and also allocating money to them and just accepting some of the companies in my portfolio will never grow to be unicorns, but we need those companies to which I thought was a great approach. His fund is fifty million dollars. You also allude to the possibility of creating a second fund by the end of the year. Talk a little bit

about that. Yeah, So UM at Sauce Bank, they feel that it's going pretty well that they're making a difference. They've found all these businesses to invest in, and they want to raise more capital to keep going down this path. So they can either get that just from Sauce Bank or work with other companies that also have this commitment. And so there exploring opportunities now and thinking about should we bring in other corporates or other interested parties, should

we keep just doing it on our own? And I think these we'll have the answers to these questions by the end of the year. Yeah. And I wonder too about other venture capital firms UM another venture capitalists doing something similar. You talked a little bit about those, right, So UM there's for example, the Collapse Capitals that I mentioned. And then there are some other initiatives. Lawrence Lenahan out of New York is UM running funding just for UH

black entrepreneurs who are interested in fashion, for example. That initiative is going ahead. There's UM to find. There are a bunch of others as well as initiatives to focus on getting more historically black colleges and testing in these funds, some of which have really good returns and endowments of these institutions haven't traditionally invested in adventure, so it's happening

on both ends. So that speaks to your point of whether or not soft Bank is going to tap its outside connections to raise the money or or use the part of the coffers that it already has. Right so, soft Bank is one of the biggest companies in the world. It has unlimited coffers, so it could just keep funding it itself, or it could bring in other corporates, which could have strategic advantages for the companies that enter the

um fund that they're backing. Because right now, these young companies I spoke to a couple of them are just bowled over by all the doors that soft Bank can open for them, mostly other companies in the soft Bank portfolio, and if other corporates were doing that to it could be great for some of these we'll talk a little bit about that because you know, raising money, especially from soft Bank and hear the venture capital reporter here at Bloomberg News, so you're the best person to speak to

about this. It's much more than just a venture capital firm providing funding to a company. Venture capitalists make introductions, they connect them with other portfolio companies. They can help get them really good employees. I mean, what is the role that a venture capital firm takes? Right? So I spoke to a company called Vitable, which is a healthcare startup based near Philadelphia. So for this founder, it wasn't just the cash. He spoke to me at length about

the introductions soft banks making. So Vitable is trying to create more access to healthcare insurance for people who don't have a ton of money to spend on healthcare, and they are using online healthcare and home visits by healthcare providers, so creating a network of providers. The bank was able to introduce him to executives from the insurance company Lemonade, which is also in the soft bank arena, and they spoke to him about insurance and building up insurance programs.

He got to speak to go Puff, the delivery start up, about creating a network. And also one of the investment partners at the Opportunity Fund is Stacy Brown Philpot, the woman who used to run task Rabbit, so he got to speak to her as well. And um, that's just invaluable for a young company. Yeah, and I encourage everybody to check out Sarah's piece. It's called SoftBank Fund puts fifty million dollars in Black and Latin X. Let's start up.

Sarah McBride, He's venture capital reporter for Bloomberg News. She joins us on the phone from San Francisco. Call the journal. Yeah, but you let me drive? Oh no, no, no, no, honey, please, I'll do the right vel. Ex I want to drive, Just drive, baby, good questions trying. This is the drive to the Globe Commune. Thanks, we'll drying us down on Bloomberg Radio. Indeed, it is three forty nine on Wall Street, just over ten minutes until the markets close on this Monday,

June seven. Tim Stanebeck with Bloomberg Business Week and joining us now as Jay Littman, the co founder and president of Ethic, approximately one billion dollars in assets under management. Jay joins us again on the phone from New York City. J It's great to have you back on the show. How are you doing to I'm fantastic to be here. Thanks for thanks for joining us today. Um, you know, June kicks off Pride and we wanted to have you on the show because Ethic is a sustainable asset manager

and you're doing something in on ear of of Pride. Month, you're helping investors allocate capital toward companies that are supporting lgbt q I A plus communities. How are you doing it well? Here at Ethic, we work with investors to help them align their portfolios with the biggest priorities that they feel matter to them. So that can be things

like climate, deforestation, human rights, racial justice. But LGBTQ plus is a huge priority for so many of our investors, and so we use data to understand, you know, fundamentally, which companies in our portfolios are either hurting or helping this community, either through the way that they treat their employees or their communities, or through the products that they sell and how they actually go about selling them to

the broader world. So we look at a number of different issues and factors to understand which companies are going to be on either side of that equation and then look to build a portfolio to reflect that. So, what

are the companies that do you support this? Well, it's companies that are making an explicit commitment to actually putting things like antidiscriminatory behavior in their policies and procedures right that as it currently stands in the US, over half of the state in this country don't actually provide explicit protections for the LGBTQ community, which means that it is actually up to companies, many of the companies in our portfolios to actually come out and explicitly tell their community,

their investors, their employees that this is something that they prioritize, and this is something that they are going to put in their documentation to ensure that bias in the hiring, firing process, in promotions, in compensation is not something that's going to be taken on at those businesses. And what are some companies that aren't doing this? I mean, can you talk about individual companies that you find that would

not meet the rubric? We don't typically name specific companies in this format from a compliance perspective, but we can talk about a lot of behaviors do no, of course, I mean it's not just you know, the internal policies with employees. You know, what we seek to understand is all of the behaviors that companies actually have that can

again help or harm this community. And you know, some of those things are more obvious, like antidiscriminatory policies and procedures, whether they have protections for domestic partners providing equal benefits whether they have um, you know, additional benefit to the trans community for additional medical coverage that may be required. But there's also you know, things that these companies do that might seem innocuous that are highly important to you know,

solving this issue. Right, So something like data security and privacy, right that may seem really unrelated and it may seem really innocuous as related to this, but if you think about the fact that you know, ten to twelve or fifteen countries around the world actually make it punishable by death to be a member of the LGBTQ community publicly, it means that individuals in those countries are most likely living private, most likely keeping this part of themselves secret.

And if they are living privately, and if they're living um, you know online and being this part of who they are online, then if that information is hacked, if it is leaked, then it is a matter of life and death. So what companies actually have good enough data security and privacy to protect this information and ensure that you know, this community in those countries is actually protected and safe.

What about investor demand for a product like this? So what was it that that that made you realize that this was an opportunity for ethic Well, you know, really important part of our process in working with our clients is going through a really rigorous experience that we call the values mapping exercise to understand which issues matter to our investors, because so much of what we do is

personalized to each specific investor. And so what we do is we create like a mission statement or you know, a map of what it is that people are actually prioritizing. And you'll see some issues come more than others. You know, you see climate is very popular, you see human rights, racial justice. But what we found is that lgbt Q right, lgbt Q plus rights is a fundamental human rights. This is you know, um, this is something that so many of our client have actually told us that they do

want to prioritize. And it's also an issue that we hear at the company prioritize from a personal basis. So we made it a priority early on to actually think about this issue at a systemic level, looking at the issues that are really important, like antidiscriminatory policies as we discussed, but also looking at the additional factors like dates, privacy, like firearms, like these other behaviors that matter so much.

I know, from a climp compliance perspective, you probably have to be very careful in in in what you can say. But but can you take me into and take our audience into the way that you think about different themes and and potentially new themes that you would come up with for four portfolios or products. Yeah, I mean, you know,

the themes is interesting where to put it? Because you know, if you were to be a sustainment investor ten years ago, fifty years ago, a hundred years ag, the priorities change, right. So in the last three or four years, we've seen issues like deforestation get a lot more popular because of the increased prevalence of wildfire. Right last year we saw racial justice get a huge amount of demand from our client base. But that was something that we had prioritized

since we founded a business. And so what we do is we provide additional resources into thinking about how to address these things at a systemic level by looking at how you know, companies are actually interacting with these issues, either making them better or either making them worse. Right. So, again, with an issue like LGBTQ plus rights, we're looking at you know which behaviors that might not necessarily see the obvious, but a truly systemic are actually going to support this

community with something like racial justice. Again, we want to look beyond diversity and inclusion, which is very important. We want to look at the systemic issues like private prison like predatory lending, like environmental racism, to see which companies are truly actually going to make the situation better or

worse as it pertains to the theme. You know, play your question, hey, j I want to just take a step back and think about the market and have your your comments on the market in in a bigger way in that weak Now that we've touched on, what what you've been up to at ethics since we last spoke. I'm wondering what you make of where the trade is and where the trade has been happening over the last

six weeks or so. Our colleagues at Bloomberg News spoke to Jennet Yellen yesterday and she said that higher interest rates would be a plus for the US. What do

you make of that? Well, I think that you know, the theme that we see, whether it's in the last four weeks, six weeks, six months, six years, is that investors are being more intentional about their investments, and they are demanding more information about how their portfolio is going to be affected by either these idiosyncratic market events or

just longer term themes in the economy. Right, is there going to be an increased idiosyncratic impact based on you know, the larger part of the portfolio, or are the companies of portfolio going to be more impacted by an economy that is driving more towards relieable energy, more towards the

systemic shift and our people positioned correctly. So for us, it's about you know, having that intention with our investors to recognize that they can put personalize their portfolios to potentially insulate themselves from the risks that come from an either those short term events for the long term offense. But we're just seeing investors being more demanding of intentional portfolios that are actually going to be insulated from them, rather than being you know, more passive and kind of

staying in traditional index investments. For example, did you just in the last twenty seconds, are are you at the point where you're openly communicating with companies about what they need to be pushing pushing for internally, So our investors are able to participate through you know, proxy voters engage with the companies that are in the portfolio, and that's a really important part of the process that we provide companies. But you know, we did just cross a billion dollar threshold,

which is very important to us in our community. But as we continue to get larger, we're going to be engaging more, especially as we have more weight and assets behind us. G Leman, it is always a pleasure. J is co founder and president of Ethic proximately a billion dollars in assets under management. He joins US from New York City,