NYC Region Reels From Ida Devastation

You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube. Search Bloomberg Global News. Virus headlines, Tim and I just covered a little bit of them. One thing that stuck out for me, Tim, medical experts who advise US regulators on vaccines, they're really chafing at what they perceive as political interference by the Biden administration in the review process of booster shots. I have to say it's a little

bit confusing for me. It's confusing about booster shots and also confusing. Okay, which are the vaccines or which is the vaccine that has been fully approved versus one that has emergency use authorization? What does that mean? For employers who can mandate shots exactly. I think it's really confusing. So let's get some clarity back with us as Dr Peter alper And he is VP at the now publicly

traded Doximity you might recall it. I p o back in late June, is a professional medical network for physicians. He joins us on the phone from Austin, Texas, and he's been a great voice for us to reach out to during the pandemic. Dr Alpern, how are you. I'm doing well, Thank you, thanks so much for having me on. Well, it's good to have you back with Tim and myself.

Tell us a little bit about well, provide us some clarities basically, because it does feel like we're getting a lot of different information about UM, the vaccine and boosters. How do you see it. What's the advice that you and your colleagues are giving out to patients? Yeah, so UM. I mean the core advice remains the same, which is that we advise everybody you know, for whom the vaccine has approved, which is basically everybody twelve and older to

go ahead and get their vaccines if they haven't done it. UM. And we have seen an increases in the number of vaccines over the past several weeks and people getting vaccinated with respect to boosters UM, So at this current moment, the boosters a third shot is to be clear, to clarify what it is we mean by booster has been approved for people who are have sort of certain, you know, compromising conditions, and that can either be that their patients

who are living with cancer or that they're on medications which can suppress their immune system. But other than that, uh, it is currently not recommended that people get a third shot. UM. There is talk about on September that people can start to get their booster shots for people who got the shot very early, which is mostly people who work in healthcare.

The clock. The clock is taking though to September twenty and I'm wondering what kind of guidance you would like to see from the FDA or from regulators about who should get it, how long they should wait to get it. If they got Maderna, did they get a booster from biiser? Is that okay? If they got j and they got two shots of a lot of information out there, what is going on like the rest of us very much await and see I I understand the frustration, but I do know that the folks at the CDC and the

other federal regulatory agencies are working hard on this. I do suspect that what will happen is that people will be recommended to get a booster, likely of the same shot that they had before. And I have started to read things about suggestions that patients who received the j J vaccine will receive another one as well. But you raise a very good point. Um, you know there's a lot of data out there too that people need to

sift through. One of the things that we've seen, Um, certain hiptoximity is just the explosion and medical information, and so providers are hungry for for clarity like like everybody else. Um. But there is, in fairness a tremendous amount of data. So again that it remains the same thing. Be safe, Um, make sure that you're vaccinated the first time. But I suspect that these recommendations will come out quite saying Hey talk Ralfer, and I got to ask about flu shots

because here we are. I was at the pediatrician with my son earlier this week. The pediatrician said, Hey, we got flu shots in do you want to get one for him and I said yes, and do you have any for me? And he said we do, we have extra h And I got my flu shot already. What

are you hearing right now about flu season? And what would you say to people who are don't even have that on their radar at this point because we've been so focused on COVID and last year was so mild when it came to flu season, I just put it on my to do that. Thank you, Carol, Absolutely great question, and you so you're absolutely right that last year's flu season was mild, likely because people were really washing their hands and people were distancing. So important point masks too,

maybe spread part of masks as well. Maybe yes, masks as well. Absolutely, um So, a lot of the precautions that we were taking and continue to take in a lot of circumstances for COVID are very helpful to prevent the flu. And as I was going to say, is it flu is path by touch much more than certainly than covid, which is large emission cannot be transmitted that way. In terms of getting a flu vaccine, um, it's absolutely a great idea. It's always a good idea to get

your flu vaccine. Every year. The flu is a significant cause of morbidity and mortality, meaning that it puts people in the hospital and can even lead to death and those who are elderly or having certain compromising conditions. So I'm glad that you got your child with flu shot, and I'm glad that you've got it yourself. Hey, listen, just got about a minute left here. You guys have some new stuff that's going out. Tell us about your residency navigator too, because you're a public company in our

audience is interested in public companies. Uh yeah, well, thank you for that. Um so. Yeah. So one of the things that we do with Toximity is we have a variety of tools and features that help physicians at all stages of their career. And one of those features is the Residency Navigator, which is a tool that helps those younger physicians, the ones graduating medical school and choosing their training program, which is required of all doctors so that

they can get licensed. Uh. They it's a that we provide that helps them choose the program that's the best fit for them depending upon what their career goals are. We update that with the latest data, and yes, that just got released a few weeks ago. So we're excited when we're seeing great wait and there's a couple's match twenty seconds. Is this like Tinder the medical version? Just

quickly cool? That helps. There's a tool that helps those physicians who have met their partner during residency or some prior time, who are both physicians, to be able to find a location that can support both of their career goals. And so if one is a surgeon and one is an internal medicine position, they can both use this tool to find the best place to go. Makes perfect sense. I have friends who you know, had to fly every weekend to see one another when they were residents because

they are residents thousands of miles away. Is it like swipe left first surgeon, swipe right for an intern. I don't know. I'm not a doctor. Not on a platform. Dr Peter Apron, always get to hear your voice, Vice President Doximity on the phone from Austin. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes to m on Bloomberg Radio. All right, Hurricane I do not thank you, the fifth largest hurricane in our history.

We heard Present Biden saying that just about an hour or so ago, making its mark tim from New Orleans and the Gulf Coast all the way up to the Northeast. It's coming at the same time we're seeing extreme weather play out, not just throughout the United States, but throughout the world, with flooding in Europe and uh, extreme weather in California in a drought that's just gripping the West.

All right, we want to talk about all of this because climate change, we know, is also impacting the frequency and ferocity of storms. Here with more on that is Bloomberg News Sustainability editor Eric Roston joining us now on the phone in New Jersey. Eric, first of all, I hope you and your your family are safe. Hi. Yeah, thank you very much. We're We looked out a lot of people in northern New Jersey and in New York and the region had real serious flooding last night, and um,

you know, our thoughts are with everybody who's suffering through this. Yes, we as well. Um, you know the storms, the type of storms where they're hitting, what they're doing. Tell us how you know, you guys cover sustainability, you cover climate change. How does climate change impact what we're living through? Right? Now when it comes to storms and weather patterns, climate

change is exacerbating everything. It's making terrible things worse. Basically, the we've had, you know, projections for many years that are now really beginning to come true. Heat Waves are hotter and longer and more frequent. Tropical cyclones like hurricanes in this hemisphere are becoming more intense. There is there's a very direct relationship between the temperature of the atmosphere

and the amount of water vapor it can hold. Every degree the temperature rises, the air can hold about seven more water vapor and it comes down when when conditions are as they have been for Hurricane i'da through the Gulf of Mexico up through the northeast as we as we saw last night. So we've expected this. It is

as terrible or worse than we expected. Um and it leaves us with this very strange um I think situation, which is we're having these terrible weather events, and we know that greenhouse gases are driving a lot of the uh, you know, extra damages we're seeing. So that's that's where things stand today. Eric. It's it's it's puzzling to me at the same time because we're seeing these extreme weather events.

While we're also seeing companies come out at least during the United States and certainly in the European Union with really ambitious climate goals. But these goals are years out we're talking, and I wonder how much worse things are going to get before they start to get better. We have yet to turn the hide. Carbon dioxide emissions in the atmosphere, that's the most important greenhouse gas continue to rise. Even though they took a big hip, a really historic

hit last year, down by like five or six percent. UH, it's still negligible. UM. So all of these UH pledges are super super important, and I think in most cases there's not reason to doubt the genuineness of the goals or the motivations to achieve them. UM. But you're right, they have yet to become actualized. In most cases, there is enormous progress in renutable energy as we see just like year after year, the games are phenomenal, even though

they're still not fast enough. UM. But this is this is an economy in transition that we that we have now we a global economy, and transition just got thirty seconds just quickly. Eric. I mean, we talked about inequities. It does feel like those countries, those cities that are wealthier are going to be able to figure out solutions faster and better than others in terms of surviving climate change just quickly. Is that fair? That is totally fair.

It was the subject of a feature we ran earlier this week that I drive everyone's attention to uh fortunately and to leave on a hopeful note of many many life saving opportunities and keep waves and other events are not income dependent. We can save lives without rebuilding cities from scratch. Thank you so much for coming on. We really wanted to check in with you today. Eric Roston, Stay Safe, Sustainability editor at Bloomberg News, joining us on

the phone in New Jersey. Yeah. Important to check out that future too, available at Bloomberg dot com. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes, tim's Enovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well this week it is

a special double issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. It's the City's issue and the cover story the issue is about Mark Lourie, who Tim amassed a fortune building e commerce sites, several of them, and he's on a new mission investing that money into building a privately run city. He shared that vision with our own Joshua Boosting. He did, and Joshua Brewsting joins us now he's technology editor at Bloomberg Business Week. He's joining us on the phone from

New York City. I think a lot of listeners and readers of Bloomberg Business Magazine might remember Lorrie from the cover that he was on a few years ago when he launched jet dot com. That was the way that the world found out about Jet dot com before Walmart a couple of years later bought it for more than three billion dollars. But Joshua, before we get into this, just give us some background about who Mark Laurie is and really what he's trying to build after building these

e commerce sites. Sure, yeah, thanks for having me. Um. As you said, Mark Laurie has had a successful career building e commerce websites. First, he built h the company that ran diapers dot com, which he sold to Amazon, worked for Amazon for a bit, left and built Jet dot Com, which is basically an Amazon competitor, which was

bought by Walmart. He then ran Walmart's e commerce UM division for about the last five years, but Almost immediately upon getting to Walmart, he started talking to people about this plan to build a city from scratch. Basically. UM that his current plan is for it to have eventually about five million people. That would be forty years from now, and obviously a lot would have to go right to get there. UM. And he's just starting to lay some

of the groundwork for what's a pretty audacious project. Is it going to happen historically? Um? If you look at what other people who have had come up with similar plans like this, I think the answer would be no. Um. There have been a really steady stream of these utopian city building projects over the years. UM. I talked to a professor at McGill University who studies them and says that there's about a hundred and fifty such projects underway

right now. UM. But she said she couldn't really point to a single one that had fully succeeded in its goals. Some of them do have some people, but they never quite get to the heights that they're aiming for. Joshua. A few months ago, you got some time to to really sit down with with Mark Laurie and and really get his vision, which you lay out so clearly in the cover story of this edition in Bloomberg Business Week.

What is it that motivates Mark Laurie to do this, What is he concerned about, what is his thinking around this, the philosophy around this. MH Yeah, interestingly, UM, I sort of figured that, you know, a guy coming from the tech industry wants to start own city that mostly what he'd want to talk about are a ton of this vehicles,

drone delivery thing like things like that. I mean sort of like touch think if I think I want an ice cream cone in my hand and it just appears like that exactly, And he did talk about that a

little bit. But like the thing that he's really interesting is this model of landownership UM, which was first floated by an economist named Henry George in the nine which is basically the idea that you could um hold the all of the all of the land in a city in a trust and instead of allowing people to own their own land, they everyone would be leasing the lands from this central trust and the income from that from that from those leases could be poured back into social services.

And now Laurie thinks that this is a way to deal with inequality, which he professes to be his main, uh, his main incentive in trying to pursue this project. Um, it was a little bit jarring to to hear this from a guy as he said in his forty four million dollar Penhals apartment and explained it to me. Um, you know, but that is really what he seemed lasor

focused on. Sounds like a really nice apartment. By the way, what I will say is, and we're getting ready to talk with David Rubinstein, who has a new book alt called The American Experiment, and it's you know, conversations he's had as America has continued to evolve and innovate and change on some really important issues. And I do think we are at this critical juncture when we look at some of our cities that are struggling and have struggled so much in the last year and a half, and

you do wonder what happens going forward. Will the infrastructure ultimately come from the federal government and maybe change some of those cities that have been struggling. You know, do we have an opportunity because we could work from home, we don't have to work in major cities to reinvent the cities and towns that we have out there. So, you know, as crazy as it might be, Josh right, like you do, wonder does Mark Lori maybe have something

that maybe there are ways we can do things better? Yeah, I think that there. Um this, there's a couple of themes that come up in a number of these sort of technology driven utopian city building ideas, which I think are rather valid critiques of the way that cities work. Now. UM, I think Lori is correctly identified the fact that inequality is an enormous problem UM and is causing really a lot of strain on on the capitalist system in the

United States. UM. Also, if you have something like autonomous vehicles, you want to cut down on car use. Generally, these are big transformations of a city, and it's very hard to get things done in cities there. They tend to really grind down due to inertia politics. UM, there's a lot of there's a lot of reasons why things can't happen, um and uh and so yeah, I think that those

those are good diagnosis of the problem. Whether you'd be able to do something like that by starting a new um, I'm not sure that's any easier, um, But you know, I mean it's certain tempting to give it a try. Where does this fall on his his list of priorities? And and and also when when he thinks about what he wants to be known for. I mean, this is a guy who's bought a steak in a pro basketball team, as you're right, he's learning the basics of his new

Steinway Grand piano. He's got this team that's working on this new reality show. He's invested in EV talls. Um, where does this fall on his list of priorities right now? I think, well, I think the EV talls in the city kind of work. Two v talls are electronic vertical takeoff and landing vehicles basically flying cars. Um, I think

those might fit into the city. I think it's right to wonder, with all these other things going on, do you have this like sort of crazy project out there if you're devoting what your time to it like something that's basically impossible anyway, Like can you do it of

your time? That seems like a valid critique. His His response to critique, which obviously I raised with him, is that well, starting now, there's not much to do with the city project, but over time it will become everything he does, and he'll sort of, you know, move towards devoting all of his time um to it. Um. You know, I think it would have to get to a state uh much different than it is now to justify that. But that's just twin. Well, there's so much detail in

your story and it's a great read. It is the cover story of the double issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine on newsstands, on the Bloomberg and at business week dot com. Joshua Boosting, thank you so much, Technology editor at Bloomberg Business Week. As we said his cover story on Mark Laurie trying to create utopia, Carol, I've interviewed Mark Laurie a few times before and during jet it's just like a normal guys almost good. Yeah, it's it's

so interesting to hear about this grand vision. Yeah, we'll speaking of grand visions David Rubinstein and his latest book. We'll get to that in just a moment. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so grab your drink of choice, Uh, settle into a comfy chair. If you're driving, pull over because we've got a great guest.

Our next guest talks with all kinds of leaders from all walks of our lives, the household names, the exacts, the innovators, the warriors, the up starts, the artist, and from those conversations, he's written a trilogy of books, How to Lead on Leadership. The second, The American Story, was all about the American history, UH, and the book's title, The American Experiment, Dialogues and a Dream is his third book in this series. So it's great to have joining us. UH.

David Rubinstein. He's host of Bloomberg Wealth on Bloomberg TV and Bloomberg Radio, and of course you know him as co founder and co chair of the private equity from the Carlisle Group. He joins us in our interactive broker studio. Thank you for joining us, My pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. It's really wonderful and I feel like you are someone who talks with so many

different people, different points of view. UM, we were wondering about the last couple of years, with everything going on, how that kind of has shaped who you want to talk to and how you were thinking about this book. The American experiment. Well, generally, I'd like to talk to people who are willing to say something, as you know from being an interviewer. Uh, if you watch the Sunday talk shows, sometimes you say, why do these people go on these shows? Because they don't want to you want

to say anything. What you want is somebody who's willing to say something and say something they haven't said before. That's the best interview, right, And so I'm always looking for somebody who is willing to be engaging and doesn't want to just spar with the interviewer and not say anything. So you know that's that's a challenge, but that's what I'm trying to do. And you always want somebody that people will listen to and want to hear. So if I got an engaging guest but nobody's ever heard of

that person, it may not be as effective. If you can get Jeff Bezos, you know, you know that's people want to hear from him, so truely, so you want somebody has a name and it was willing to engage. And some people are great and some people are not as great, and you know you've just figured out during the interview. But we think about what's happened with the pandemic, the capital riots, um, the inequities, George Floyd. We could

go on and on. There's it feels like a decade or two decades of history have happened in the last year and a half. How is that, David shaped kind of your thinking and putting this book together? And again, the voices you wanted to get to, each one has

a different thing. The January six event um, I do talk about it extensively in the book, and I basically say it was a severe stress test for America and America one and I dedicate the book to the public servants who protect our democracy because remember, we had sixty five lawsuits that were filed to overturn the January to overturn the election, and none of them actually prevailed, none of them got very far. All the judges basically complied with what is the rule of law, and they basically

didn't act political. So I think we learned a lot about the importance of the rule of law in this country. We also learned a lot in terms of the and of health care in this country. How it's so unfair that people are her minority status or or are poor. Really we're suffering disproportionately because of COVID because they don't have good health care to begin with, and they don't have access to the best health care. And it's a sad situation. But it also made me think about this,

my mortality. I'm seventy two years old, and when you're seventy two, you had a chance of you got this disease that you could maybe not survive. And we now know that six the people when on ventilators didn't actually come back out of the ventilators. We were putting people ventilators thinking was helping wasn't. So we learned a lot about how to treat people. But suppose I had gotten this and I went on a ventilator, I probably wouldn't be here now. So I learned a lot about my

mortality and thinking about it. And the result is I'm rushing to get more things done because I now realize, hey, life is very sued and something bad could happen very quickly. And so that that's been something that I've been thinking a lot about. It's like the Hamilton's right, I'm running

out of time right concept. As you point out in the book, the American experiment has been relatively short at this point, and I'm wondering if you could contextualize the way that you think about what happened over the last year, year and a half as to what extent it really stress tested us, because you do you do make note of the judiciary essentially saving the United States, not the lawmakers, because you do call out in the book the lawmakers,

the senators, and the members of Congress who voted to overturn the election. They are still in power right now. Yes, And I know many of them, and privately they will say to you, well, I had to do that, or I knew it wasn't going to really prevail. Sure, many of these people were you know, I live in Washington, I host I host a series uh in front of

Members of Congress once a month. With COVID ending soon hopefully I'll be resuming that, and I know a lot of members and so forth, and you know, privately what they say is, um, well I had to do this and they didn't really believe in it, but you know, and so forth. Some will say that I'm not going to go and say who said that, but clearly it's

a very political situation. It's just the saddest Part of the whole situation we now face is that we've politicized the government so much so that the country's really unable to move forward very much. We have people who don't want to wear masks, who think that it's a good thing to force people not to wear masks. In effect, we we we you know, a sad situation in many ways when you think about it, that school children whose teachers want them to have masks are being told they

aren't supposed to have that mask. Bad situation, and people are dying because of this. When did debate become like a bad thing? I thought that was what kind of the routes of democracy? We're all about, this whole idea of having different perspectives and hopefully talking it through and

getting to a better place. When I worked in Congress and nineteen seventies and in the White House, uh, there was obviously political disputes all the time, and obviously this was after Watergate, but people thought eventually, you've got to get something done, and so you had bipartisan legislation. Now, if to be considered a great legislator used to be you were good at bipartisan legislation. Get people on both

sides to work together now to be a great legislator. Um, you're probably somebody that is good in only getting your Democrats or your Republicans to support you. And members of Congress now spend so much time raising money because they want to raise money for their campaigns or to want anybody from challenging them, and they have to spend their time in the case of members of the House, to

raising money. And the money and the Internet and social media has just divided the country in so many ways that I find it interesting when I host these dinners, so many people say this is the most interesting thing that members feel they're doing. In Washington. They can have a dinner when nobody sees their meeting with somebody from the opposite party cause there's no press there, and they can talk to people from the opposite house, which they

really do because they rarely have conference committees anymore. It's uh, you know, look, I also recognize this. Every generation ten thousand years back and so forth has always said, well, in my time it was better, and now it's not as good now. George Washington's father allegedly told him, well, your dinner generation are not gonna achieve anything because you

guys are not hard working or whatever. Well, the truth is, every general, every generation tells the younger people, you're not gonna be tough enough, You're not gonna be surviving enough. An ultimately civilization goes forward. So sure, they're they're challenges. Now. I'm not happy with many things that have happened. One thing that did happen, though, uh, during all this period of time, it is the is the George Floyd murder. In that case, the thing that struck me was this,

we've been through. I lived for the Civil Rights Revolution, We've lived for the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act, and so many things that have been done, infirmative action, other things. But this one murder crystallized for people in this country the fact that we are still discriminating in so many ways. Just think about it. All the people that have been lynched over the years didn't seem to

have the same resonance as this one murder. Maybe because it was on TV, maybe everybody saw it, Maybe because people saw it was so ridiculous the way it was handled. But we've made some progress obviously on racial relations. And I'd say in the book that while we've made a lot of progress, on racial relations and and and gender equality and other things. We still have a long way to go. The rhetoric that is in the Declaration of

Independence and the rhetoric in the Constitution is wonderful. What we've been spending two thirty years trying to live up to that rhetoric, and to some extent we've made progress, and some extent we haven't. And what I say in the book is that we have these genes, these gene is are part of us, the belief and the rule of law, the belief in equality, belief in the power of voting. And we've been trying to make sure that people um kind of honor these things that are part

of our genes. And sometimes we do and sometimes we don't. The rule of law is a gene that's so strong that it prevailed in the January sixth situation and and the and the post election fight. And I think that was good in many other countries. And you've had a leader of do what was done here. I think you could have had a military takeover. Yeah, it could have been much closer. I I wonder, David, about this sense of optimism that you have potentially after writing a book

like this. I do think there is this collective despair over the last eighteen nineteen months as this pandemic is played out and we try to get to the other side of it. And here we are sandwiched between extreme weather events. You know that they're affecting the entire country, whether it's drought or hurricane or fires. Uh, trying to get our kids back to school. After writing this book and speaking to these people and looking so closely at

the history of the United States, are you optimistic? I think most people who are asked that question will say yes, because nobody wants to say no, I'm pessimistic. It sounds bad to say I'm pessimistic, and I'd be lying. If I said I was pessimistic. It might make news to say I'm pessimistic. I am optimistic about many things. The young people are so creative. We are solving some problems like global climate change. We're working on some things. Racial

relations are getting better than not perfect. But uh, if you weren't optimistic, you'd be hard to get through life. If every day you were so depressed you couldn't get through life, you know, what would you do? So I'm optimistic and I've had been fortunate in my life to be be able to be optimistic because of good things that happened to me. But generally I'm reasonably optimistic. I've just been worried about some things that we could solve that we don't seem to be solving as quickly as

I wish we would. Let's talk about some of the conversations ken Burns, Medline, Albright, Um, juliep Or who I don't know is necessarily a household name, Um Alter, Isaacson, David McCullough, some of the things Rita Morano, Um, some of the conversations that stood out. And obviously they talked about very different topics, the different topics of thread. But I guess well, ken Burns talked about Vietnam. And it turns out in Vietnam, the political leaders knew all along.

They knew all along that we had no chance of winning that war military. It was really a political um exercise, which was disappointed because we lost fifty eight thousand men and the Vietnamese lost millions of people. UM. David McCulloch did a wonderful job of explaining how nobody took the right brother seriously in this country. They had to go to France to kind of prove um that they could they could they could fly. Another reason why we love France, right, UM.

You know, so Rita Moreno is an incredible story and a woman from Puerto Rico who was not taken that seriously as an actress because she was from Puerto Rico, she was given kind of Latino Latino jobs, but she turned out to be an Academy Award winner and she had an interesting life. She lived with um, a very famous person for quite some time, Marlon Brando and I think eight years or so, and then try to commit

suicide because he was unfaithful. And then she recovered from that and obviously went on to now win an Emmy, a Grammy, uh, every other word Tony that you can win. So she's um quite impressive her and now we're still performing at A eighty nine. She was at our Boston Pops event and she's a spitfire. Got to meet her and she's unbelievable in terms of her energy. You also talked with m Walter Isaacson, and I think innovation is something we spend a lot of time here, uh talking

about around the table. And you know that governments, the complicated relationship really between governments and innovation. We're seeing it once again. What did you glean from that conversation? Walter points out in his book really focus on the Innovators, a book right before the Codebreakers. Codebreakers, a new book about a woman that won the Nobel Prize for effect discovering crisper Um. And and that's a great book as well. But but the Innovators is about all the people that

have changed our lives. Who invented the micro processor, that transistor, the smartphone, the internet, all the things. How could we live today without the internet? How could we live today without smartphones? All these things? But now these all came about because of smart people doing things that people said couldn't be done. And Typic as part of the teams. There are very few geniuses. They're discovering things by themselves,

he points out. Usually it's a person working with somebody else, and usually they're building on some something that somebody else actually did before them. But the most important thing is our country has been a country where we've been strong because of innovation. We are the country that innovates. We're reinventing ourselves all the time. Why aren't people in Europe

inventing great companies. Like with companies we have, you don't see as much in Europe or in other parts of the world as we have been seeing here right now. The technology that's dominating the world, certainly outside of China is American technology Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Um, all these companies are American companies. Why don't we aren't we dominated

by European technology companies or Middle East technology companies? Because Americans have innovative style and we really incent people to do things innovative here. Wait, I gotta follow, So what do you think about what's going on in China right now in terms of really clamping down It feels like any innovators well in China, I think what's going on is the Chinese government is trying to make it clear to everybody that we, the government, are the most important

thing and not the innovators. And so I think there's a concern that sometimes you get entrepreneurs whore worth a lot of money there, their cult figures themselves jack Ma on the equivalent, and they kind of rival the government leaders, and the government doesn't think that's appropriate. So the government

is doing some things to constrain this. We'll see whether the impact is to have people not be quite as innovative, or whether people will try to take more money offshore, or or or entrepreneurs will come to this country and not go back to China. You don't know yet. Will it prevent those China? And we're talking, of course, with David Rubinstein, his new book is The American Experiment, also host of Bloomberg Wealth here at Bloomberg Radio and TV

and co chair co founder of the Carlisle Group. But it's interesting, David, do you think it will prevent China from being um kind of a global presence when it comes to innovative technologies, which is what President Gas said he wants to be. It may have some impact, but right now, for example, what is up in the air is who is going to dominate technology and the around

the world of the next ten years. Is it going to be the American technology companies or is it going to be Chinese trying right now, the Chinese technology companies have largely been successful in China. Google and Facebook really don't quite operate in China. They have their own equivalent there. But have China been able to take Alie pay Uh and financial um or Ali Baba outside of China that much,

not so much, or the same with Bai Do. Now the only one that's really become a major force outside of China is Byte Dance, which has TikTok, but it

doesn't operate all in China. It really operates outside. But over the next ten twenty years, twenty or thirty years or so, there will be an effort by the Chinese to say, let's take our technology companies and use them in Europe, Latin America, the Middle East, and who will dominate what we have two internets or we just have one internet and and it's not clear to the extent that we weaken our technology companies in this country. It may be that we won't be dominant around the world

as much as we have been. But you think about it. You go anywhere in the world now you can turn, you can use Google, you can use Facebook. You can't go use Bai Do or or Alie pay anywhere in the world. That may change unless you're in a part of nowhere, one of the blocked uh David, given what's happened in China over the last few months, would you be hesitant to deploy capital there to to invest there at least for the near future. I am an investor in China, have been a long term investor there my

firm UM as an investor there. I personally invested there UM, but without thinking forward over the next few years. Given what's happened over the last few months, there clearly are going to be some constraints on growth and valuation. So, for example, UM many of the companies that have had some constraints the financial transaction is one and where the valuations come down because they're not going to go public

quite as quickly as they were going to. I still think though, you've got a population of one point three billion people and a gigantic market, the biggest market in the world, and the country is becoming increasingly wealthy, and therefore people are recently spending money. We operate a number of companies there. We operate with our Chinese partners and McDonald's in in uh in China, and clearly that's a growing business doing well. So I wouldn't be hesitant to

invest in China. I just be hesitant to do things that the government isn't gonna really like. You've got to be very careful and make sure you know what the government will tolerate and not the book At the very beginning you include the preamble to the Constitution. If you could sit down with a forefather today, who would it be and what would you want to know? Well? I

waits that one second. I would just say that, interestingly, we had white Christian property owners men who are founding fathers, right, if we had a new constitutional declaration independence, who would those people be? It wouldn't be all white men right or property. We'd have presumably women, We'd have minorities. Would we get a different constitution? Will we get a different

declaration independence? Probably would Um. If I can have dinner with any one of those founding fathers, I guess it would be Thomas Jefferson, just because his rhetoric is writing style is so wonderful, And I'd ask him how come you never made a speech as presidently made one public speech. If you asked, uh Water Risings, he would say he'd like to have all the people he's written about, he'd

like to have dinner. I think he would say with Benjamin Franklin, because he's so creative and so brilliant, so many ways uneducated by traditional standards, but now any have I think if I could have dinner with anybody that's ever lived and aman who's an American not currently live, it would be, without doubt, Abraham Lincoln. It might be the greatest American of them all. Kept the Union together, Uh, freed the slaves, though not as quickly as some people

would want it. But he was an incredible person, writer, credit speaker, and and I just like to ask him this a lot of questions. And it's interesting phenomenon. You and you and I are all in the interview business. And this is a business where it's just rebalytively common. Now it's not unique to be an interviewer. Right, lots of people. You know, everybody has a podcast. I think there should be a bumper secret and says if you

don't have a podcast. Everybody kept their own podcast, everybody got there on TV show, everybody's got their own radio show. But this is relatively new. For most of organized history, there were no interviews. So we have no interviews of Shakespeare, we have no interviews in Crea Patrick, we have no interviews of Abraham Lincoln, George Washington. I wish we could go back and interview them. I thought about doing a book interviewing what these people would have said if I'd

interviewed him, that's a great idea. So I got to say to William Shakespeare, No, will Um, why do you think it is that people think you didn't write these plays? Or did you really write these plays? That's the truth? Or Cleopatra? Who was a better love with Mark Anthony or Julius Caesar when you land these interviews? Yea, for Henry the Eighth, why why didn't you just get a prenup instead of chopping off the head of your wives. There's a lot of great questions we went. We want

to know the answers to number four. You did get some fantastic names for for this book, you know, including Ken Burns as we talked about, Matlin, Albred, John meetch Um, Billy Jean King. Uh. Who did you reach out to that you couldn't get? Who said, I'm sorry? Who's this? David Rubinstein? I don't have time kidding? No, Look, some people do not like to do interviews, and some people are more more complicated to get a hold up and so forth. So I um on this particular book, I

have not interestmented so did this way. I have not yet interviewed Elon Musk, I'd like to do that. Um. Water Isaacson is writing a book about him, and that presumably will be the source of a lot of information on Twitter. A few weeks ago left talking about that. I talked to Water about it and he's very happy spending time with him now. And Ellen is Uh, I won't give away all this, all the stories there, it's

gonna be. It's gonna happen absolutely, um, And I would say that, Uh, I'd like to interview I have an interview Mark Zuckerberg. I'm on a board with him in China. I've been there when we talked to him a couple of times, but I haven't really interviewed him, and I think that'd be interesting. I had a chance to invest in that company when my son in law to be was at Harvard and he said investment company. I said, it's a dating service, and dating service never get anywhere.

That was thirteen billion dollars ago. Is there a woman that you haven't talked to you that you would like to talk to? Well, Queen Elizabeth doesn't do interviews, UM, so I think that's probably not gonna happen. But I would say I have not interviewed Uh, Mrs Obama, I've met her many times, I haven't interviewed her. You should be very good as an interviewee. I have interviewed Melinda Gates. Uh.

I've interviewed many business leaders for prominent women. Uh and in scott have you thought about I have met her, but I don't haven't interviewed I. I haven't actually asked her yet. I don't. I think she's relatively shy and

doesn't seek publicity as the way she's doing it. But if she's watching or listening right now, I'm ready to come out Seattle tomorrow and do that interview because she's doing some really good things in philanthropy and really turned the world upside down by doing it fast, doing it very differently than how a lot of other people have done it for a long time. Yes, and uh, I mean she's got I think she was given thirty four billion dollars and now it's probably worth seventy five billions,

So she's got a lot of money. We have three minutes left. Please don't go anywhere, No, just stay forever. Um. The investment environment, I don't know whether it's back, whether it's crypto. What's interesting to you right now? Well, clearly crypto is something that gets a lot of attention. It's amazing how many people are interested in crypto. Are you invested in crypto in any way? I have not invested in crypto currencies myself. I have invested in some companies

that kind of service the industry. And my standard view on crypto is when you go to Las Vegas, most people smart to know you're not gonna win there, maybe spend more time there. You're certainly not gonna win, but you enjoy it. You have the pleasure of gambling, so you pick one or two percent of your net worth and do that. Well, the same is true in crypto. Crypto you want to speculate, you don't really know that much about it. Try it one or two or three percent.

It's not harmful and you'll probably have enjoyable time. Perhaps. I interviewed for my my show on Bloomberg John Paulson recently, and he is dead set against it. He just said, this is terrible and it's going to zero. And but on the other hand, I've interviewed some other people that will come out soon who are gonna be saying, hey, I think it's a way to make a lot of money. There's one personal I be interviewing soon. Who's who's made

billions of dollars in crypto? What about when it comes to SPACs and where we are in this cycle with spacks? Are they here to stay? And look, spacts aren't anything new, They're just having a moment right now. SPACs are not going away. Um. But you have to be wary of what you're doing. You have to know what you're really doing. So spacts are a way to accelerate an I p O process And right now it's harder to raise money

for SPACs and not just a spack money. There are two types of money yet you have to really raise. You raise the riditional money for the SPAC, but then you raise money that's called a pre I p O money, which is the money to help you get public um or help the public evaluation, uh state of what you think it should be. And uh, it's harder to raise

that money right now. A lot of somebody is raising I think it's Apollo is raising a fund to invest in the SPACs that aren't doing so well and to try them on the cheap, which is an idea that I think is probably has some merit we've already gone to distress SPACs. UM, thirty seconds left here? What do you think will be the next Grand American experiment? Just quickly? Well, the next experiment that I think we'll see UM. I think probably we're going to see UM at some point.

I hope UM greater cooperation between the Republicans and Democratic parties when we have some crisis that really unites them in ways that we haven't really truly been united since nine eleven. Now we're getting ready to celebrate or mark I shouldn't I celebrate than theversary nine eleven. UM, we're gonna do at the Kenny Center on the chairman of Kenny Center. We're gonna have an event doing that and thanking our military people, but also thinking the healthcare workers.

We've got us through this more tweetent a period of time. We thank you, Thank you very much for having so much. David Rubinstein, of course, co founder, co chair of the Carlisle Group. His latest book, The American Experiment, Dialogues on a Dream. Do check it out. It's a great Still summer. It is still summer. Everyone still summer. Read this is Bloomberg Radio. I'm grom a journal Yeah, but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no, no's d honn please, I'll do the right drivel. I want to drive all

Just drive baby. The question driving. This is the drive to the globe. Give me thanks, we'll dry up. Dawn on Bloomberg Radio. All right, yeah, just about eleven and a happen. It's good to go until we wrap up the Thursday tree eating day. Definitely wrapping around, Charlie, noting that we're well well off our highs of the session. Tim, Oh, well, well I should turn my microphone on. How's that. It's been a crazy day. Maybe the producers are trying to

send me a signal. Stan you're talking too much. Well, let's get to the drive to the clothes. Aaron again and as co founder and CEO of Clear Harbor Asset Management, with assets under management more than one billion dollars, it joins us once again on the phone from Stanford, Connecticut. A great to have you back on the show. How are you doing doing just fine? Hey? Help us make sense of yeah, yeah, we are doing in Yeah, thank

you for saying that. Um, it's been a challenging twenty four hours in the Tri State areas, certainly for for for many of our our friends and colleagues, we're thinking to them. Um, Aaron, I want you to take us into today's trade ahead of the jobs report. Um, it does seem like investors are kind of stepping back and and certainly looking to what happens tomorrow. Um, what are you looking for? Well, you know, clearly there's a big

question around the jectory of employment. But I also think that we've just gone through a very strong earning season.

We've had the majority of companies experiencing robust stop and bottom line growth, and markets are sort of at all time highs, at least the SMP five hundred, that is, And so I think there's some indigestion clearly in the market, but there's also sort of a forward looking process that everyone is undertaking right now, not only as it pertains to the data tomorrow, which is important and could weigh on the FETs thinking in September, but as it pertains

to growth and and our expectation is that growth is going to continue to decelerate from very lofty levels, and that the bond market has you know, really sniffed this out many months ago, back starting in March, when when yields peaked and Uh. And I think there's a concern that as as growth decelerates, so goes the market. But I'd also push a little bit back on on that

sort of prevailing view um our. Our thought is that we've already seen a significant rotation within the equity market out of sort of that process equocal move that we started to see back in mid June and play itself out when oil peaked to a more growth posture going into the non farm payrolls on Friday. You know what's interesting is I like what you said about indigestion in

the market, because it does certainly feel that way. At the same time, the world is a wash in liquidity, and our gena Martin Adams comes on consistently and says that money's got to go somewhere, and and you increasingly see it or continually see it go into the U S equity market because again, the US economy has certainly bounced back first. Uh, if you compare it to the rest of the developed markets. Uh. And that's where investors

seem to be continuing to place the bets. And I guess right now we have to figure out how long that kind of trade also continues, right, Yeah, And I think as growth does decelerate, that trend towards growth equities and perhaps more defensive segments of the equity market like healthcare, UM could could still accrue to the US market perhaps more than the UM the international developed markets. If you just look at the sort of constituencies of those markets.

We have more tech than than for example, of the Eurozone, and so UM if that trend prevails, it could just sort of accrue to the to the US marketplace. But UM. I also think that sometimes not making a big bet on cyclical versus growth is not a bad idea from

time to time, and this may be that moment. You know, we've already had this sort of front half of two thousand and twenty one, massive cyclical move higher oil, industrials, materials, banks all t outperforming the technology sector for example, consumer discretionary and communications, and in the last two and a

half months we've seen the opposite play out. In the back half of this year, I think maybe one where we continue to see that trend, but it will not be as as robust is just the last couple of months, But that's to be expected to be fair. I mean, we're only kind of came out with UM some expectations. Talking about the U S slow down the third quarter, I mean that is to be expected compared to write because the dynamic crazy numbers of growth have happened as

we have we bounced back from the pandemic. And I'm sorry Tim forgetting but I mean right that. I mean it's kind of playing out like we expected in many ways. Yeah, but if you if we were talking a month ago, UM q Q three growth was probably one percentage point higher than it is right now on expectations, and so they've come down even further. UM. And the question is will we continue to see a ratcheting down and growth expectations? UM?

I I suspect we we could. We saw the I S M data, UM, you know disappoint We're seeing growth slow in China, both sort of export driven growth as well as consumer driven growth. In fact, there is a belief that the central bank wouldn't wouldn't be moving to sort of shore up their currency, and and now there there's a belief that central bank will be you know, much more you know, incrementally duvish. So UM. That has huge implications for global currencies as well as equit markets.

How are you deploying tapitle right now, how are you putting money to work from clients? Good, good question. UM. Every one of our clients has a different sort of risk profile, a different objective, UM, different duration as well, depending on whether or not there a non for profit organization or an elderly couple or a young professional. And so we really take all of that into account UM in trying to sort of structure portfolios, and so equities tend tend to be at this sort of core of

of a portfolio. But we also believe in the idea of allocating for particular clients that you know are averse to having portfolio volatility to to the extreme, allocate to antifragile assets or assets that can uh sometimes buttress a portfolio when the economy and the equity markets are not performing well. So that could, depending on the moment in time, include gold, it could include components of the fixed income market like longer duration or short duration treasuries, as well

as investment grade credit mortgages. So our view is that UM treasury still have a role in a multi asset class portfolio, even though they are unfortunately yielding a negative level at the moment. So, for example, tomorrow's non fund Parallels report comes in and it's a two hundred thousand. Uh, We're not so sure the equity market behaves all that well tomorrow under that scenario. That would be so weak is the estimate from according to right. So if it

was an extraordinarily weak number, um, it could. Um, you know, this is how counterintuitive the market is today though. But in theory, um, there could be some market indigestion there. But on the other hand, we could see the long dated segment of the treasure market rally, and that could also afford the FED to be even more dubbish. So then you know, we could we could we could see equities in fact rally on the heels of extraordinarily weak

economic data. Right. So it's just an interesting time to be an acid all acid allocation. It's that market. It's that movie we saw for a long time. I feel like Aaron. After the financial crisis, bad news was good news. It meant the FED was going to stay easy for longer. Uh. And so um, you know I always think about this with it with the economic means, at some point we

want the economy to get back to normal. Normal is good. Um. But but the investment markets don't always see it that way, right, absolutely, and you know, we do see opportunities within within equities across multiple sectors. But you know, whether it's artificial intelligence or the renewable sector or the economy, water utilities look

still look extraordinarily interesting to us. Um you know, they're they're they're just you know, still wonderful companies in the midst of a market that's trading at twenty times forward multiple and doesn't look seemingly attractive, that are continuing to grow at um you know, revenue growth on an annualized basis, and in the question of course, comes down to price. All right, we gotta run. Hey, Aaron, have a good

holiday weekend. Aaron Kennon, co founder CEO of Clear Harbor asset management of a billion in assets under management, on the phone from Stanford, Connecticut. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube. Sarah to Bloomberg Global News