This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing you the latest news from the world to business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com.
You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg clovel News. All right, let's get back to COVID and the virus. Tim. We've mentioned some of the headlines, the US recovery from the latest COVID nineteen wave taking hold cases dropping or poised to start falling in the vast majority states. That makes me hopeful. It makes me hopeful as well. Also, the f d A is leaning toward authorizing half dost booster shots of the
MODERNA vaccine. And we're also seeing that an anti viral drug from Murk appears to inhibit several major COVID variants, including the highly contagious delta strain. That's according to early stage data. It's really interesting stuff going on. So let's get to our daily check on COVID nineteen. Dr Amy Compton Phillips is back with us. She's president of Clinical Care at Providence Health System. She's on the phone from Seattle.
Remember we've told you this before. The first known US case of COVID nineteen was confirmed in Washington State at Providence. That was back in January. She and her team were the first to know this and really have to deal with it. The hospital is part of a massive system, uh and it includes about fifty one hospitals clinics. It is huge, so they see a lot and as I said, she joins us from Seattle. Dr Compton Phillips, So nice to have you back here with Tim and myself. How
are you. I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me today. So what are you seeing when it comes to COVID nineteen cases treatment? How would you assess the current situation when it comes to our fight against this pandemic. Well, you know, it's great that we're finally seeing a little bit of light at the end of our current tunnel that we've been going through. You know, we keep thinking it's the last tunnel we have to hit, and I would love this to be the last one.
We still do have in some of our markets, particularly in Alaska and in the eastern side of Washington State. UM crisis standards of care, So we're not completely out of the woods yet, But then explain what Explain what that is for people who aren't familiar with that yet. Crisis standard of care. Yeah, Crisis standards of care is
what you don't want if you go into the emergency room. UM. It means that we really are beyond our capacity to help people with all the cutting edge care that you normally used to that we are either having to use UM and the kind of the mnemonic that we use this spaces, supplies and staff, So UM spaces. We're using places for care that don't normally take care of patients. So we might be using conference rooms, for example, to
put patients in. UM supplies, we might not have every ventilator that we need to put people on if they're breeding sails, and instead we'll start using alternatives like high blow oxygen. And staff means we're using people to extend the skilled staff we normally have two staff I see us. For example, so we might have one ICU nurse that's supervising to other nurses that came in from an outpatient clinic that don't normally work in an ICU UM, but to be able to extend what we typically do. Crisis
then crisis then absolutely. It's like I said, it's not what you would want for you or your family, it's not what we want to provide. You do what you can when you have to. So and I thought it was so important what you said, seeing the life at the end of the current tunnel. And I do feel like every conversation we have, the caveat is well depending on COVID and depending on the trajectory of this virus, because we just don't know. UM, what optimism do you
hold on to? What worries you? So the optimism I have is we now have seen around the globe countries that have been able to get things under control, even in that they of delta. And the way they're doing that is with the layered containment strategies we know work, so really really pushing on vaccines and vaccines um that
that allow us to get back to life. So in countries where they for example, like over in the EU, where they're requiring proof of vaccination to go out to dinner or into museum, vaccination rates have increased and they've gotten control of the pandemic. When we do things like use masks and congregate settings, particularly in places like schools, it works. When we increase a ventilation, increase social distancing,
it works. So I do believe that if we actually put science into practice that we would get control of this wave and have it be the last one that we have to deal with. One challenging thing to hear, and I think for many people to hear right now is that yes, we can get it under control, but it requires a lot of sacrifice. I think on an individual basis, like you know, we haven't seen family and over two years, for example, we're not playing on flying
because we have a young child before he's vaccinated. So it's it's like this new normal. Even though we can keep it under control, it's it's it's not something that I'm you know, we're all wearing masks around the office, like it's not great. Yeah. And the really interesting thing is over in the EU, to look at Denmark, for example, they're back to normal. They're not wearing masks, but it's because they did the work to get it under control, rather than having to keep going on um with with
the containment strategies. As soon as particularly our kids can get vaccinated, it really will allow us to get back to normal and we won't have to do all the layer containment. It'll just be contained now. The challenge we have is the misinformation that is stoking anti vaccination fears
is really really traumatizing for communities. We have doctors and nurses that are you know, zipping up body bags again in our I see us and then go out to their car and find a flyer on their windshield saying that vaccinations cause and then choose your misinformation um fact um, and that they will be held accountable and that they're
contributing to genocide. So it is incredibly challenging for our people who have been putting their lives and health and families lives on the line for the past eighteen months, to be seen as the problem rather than the solution to the pandemic. That has got to be difficult. I want to get back to our guest. At this hour, it's Dr Amy compted Phillips. She's president of Clinical Care at Providence Health System. UH still with us on the phone from Seattle. Dr Compton Phillips. Let's talk a little
bit about pregnant women. It's something Tim and I have talked a lot about. I know are friends who are thinking about getting pregnant. There are those that are pregnant who've been vaccinated. There are others who don't want to get the vaccine ahead of it. Um, what can you tell us? There's lots of research and information being put out there. There is lots of research and the great news that the vaccines are safe and effective and pregnant women.
The reason that's great news is because moms and babies are at real risk from COVID. That particularly with the Delta wave, with the increased contagiousness of this particular germ, and the fact that it is affecting so many young people. We have seen, um, you know, one is too many.
We have seen so many women who have come in pregnant and have either lost their baby because of the blood clotting that COVID itself causes um and then disrupting flow to the placentas of them the baby doesn't make it UM and or moms themselves because of the mild immune suppression you get from pregnancy itself, not being able to fight off COVID, and then you know the whole O, B, G, Y N trying to decide do we deliver this baby early to try to save mom's life or what do
we do? It's just a horrible thing for pregnant women to get severely ill from COVID. Preventing yourself with the shot is absolute, literally the best course, but it's not something that many pregnant women are doing. Only of pregnant people have been vaccinated, lower rates among Hispanic and Black people. How do you get that number? Why, why do you think that's happening? And how do you get that number up? Well?
I think pregnant women are women who are even considering pregnancy, are always really really worried about doing anything that might put the baby at risk and appropriately So it's why why so many pregnant women I know um are are hesitant to take a tile at all, much less anything else. And and so I think having been appropriately cautious is
absolutely the right thing to do. I don't know that women know the fact that the risk of COVID while pregnant is so much higher than the risk of the vaccine that we have a lot of data now, and I know this vaccine is reasonably new. But when you do a new vaccine in billions of people literally across the globe, you get data very quickly, and we know that this vaccine is now safe and effective for pregnant women and tificantly more safe than getting COVID is when
you're pregnant. Getting that word out is hard, and so it is part of the conversation um to to help ensure that we do get the word out. So are O, B G y N s are are beating the drums were in, the papers were beating it. The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology ACOG is making sure that it's known.
CDC is putting the information out. And still it takes really one on one conversation with women to know that the best thing they can do for a safe and healthy pregnancy is get a shot dr one thing I want to do. Playing Devil's advocate, We've only got about forty five seconds. Here is there's somewhere, say we'll wait a minute. We don't know the data. We don't know when a kid is five or ten, whether there's some complications or something. What do you say to that? And
I am playing Devil's advocate a bit here. Yeah, I'd say that delivering a baby to term and being able to raise that baby till their five or ten is a definite benefit rather than having having a complicated pregnancy that doesn't go to term because of COVID. Alright, we're going to leave it on that note. Always good to get your time with you. Please stay safe and we wish you well you and your team. Dr Amy Compton Phillips, president of Clinical Care at Providence Health System, on the
phone from Seattle, Washington. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Oh my god, we're already talking about this story. We've been talking since it hit the terminal this morning. It's the cover story of Bloomberg Business which happens to also be the big take on the Terminal. It's about insiders winning trades. When I read in, I mean I just I was reading in this morning. I usually scan.
You couldn't put it on. I could not. I was sitting there with my coffee and just kept going because, UM, I don't know, there's just it's a fascinating story, it really is, and it's a cover story for insight into something that I don't think a lot of people know about it and understandably, um it's a little wonky too. Let's let's get into it. Joe Weber is editor at Bloomberg Business. We Ke's with us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Liam Bond is Projects and Investigations reporter for
Bloomberg News, joining us on the phone from London. Joel, Okay, insiders, that's right, how are they defined? So? UH gonna be careful here because there's a I can I can hear my my legal counsel on my on my my shoulder advising on how to say this. So, uh, corporate executives get some privilege information, right, and some of that information is obviously non public because you know, helps them do
their jobs. But it also turns out that they have some special abilities to like trade, and it also means that those trades get disclosed, so eventually we get to see what they do and that's long been known. And what's really interesting about the story I thought was also that now there are like websites set up to like track and rank who's the best insider at trading and
you can subscribe and you can subscribe three dollars a month. Um. But a new artier also, you know, it gets to some the heart of capitalism is like is somebody getting an unfair advantage over the rest of us? So, so Liam, what's how does that breakdown? And and how is this? How is this legal? Because it is? Yeah, so so I can look like the kind of Um, the stories that dominate, like financial coverage inside of trading always like
rears its head like it was. It was really big in the eighties with Michael milk Un and Bowski and then again you know when you have Sack Capital and pre Berra and stuff. But the thing is like the stories keep coming, but the issue never goes away. And I think fundamentally the reason for that is that the law in America around inside of trading is just really
shoddy and isn't really up to the task. Um. So, for example, there's no crime of insider trading in America in the same way that there is in the UK or another place. Um. What happens in America is that you have to charge people with securities fraud UM, and
it's all done via kind of case law. There isn't an insider trading statue, even though people are pushing for that UM, and essentially that really raises the bar but behind bringing these cases because to prove frauard you have to demonstrate this thing called scienter, which is like criminal intent. So you have to demonstrate that this inside the trade and use their head inside instivation and liberally set out
to take advantage of it UM. And the problem with that is that even though you can sort of see, well, the CEO keeps getting very lucky, they can turn around and say, well, if you look at the information that was in the public domain already, you know it was pretty obvious that the shares were going to go up, or you know, I just had better ability to judge what was already out there, and it's very hard to
prove them wrong. And if you think about like normal insider trading cases that you think of like the fat capitals of this world, and hopefully if you're a secuty, you'll find some email or find some witness, whereas in
this it's really just all going on in the executive's head. Um, So, you know, I spoke to a bunch of you know, x SEC folks, ex prosecutors, and they all said that these cases are just absolute pigs and that's why they're largely you know, it's almost like an unprosecutable crime essentially, meaning that they're not necessary isn't necessarily a case there you're saying, well, it's just incredibly hard to demonstrate wrong
for criminal prosecutors. Yeah. Liam, What I found so fascinating about this was that even you know, some government lawyers who you talked to question how much damage the executive trading really causes, which makes me think it's like, wait a second, is it really is it a victimless Yeah, that that really struck out to me about this story. So explain that because not everybody thinks this is necessarily
that bad. Well, I think that's the thing that really appealed to me about the story is the kind of moral and for esophical questions that it it raises. So you've got someone like Free Berrara, who kind of made his name as the Sheriff of Wall Street and he brought down all these insider traders, and then a load of his cases ended up having to be quashed because just down to this you know, function of this kind of squiggly law and the case law. But he would argue, look,
it's about fairness. Like fundamentally, um, you know, elites in society shouldn't have an advantage when you know, trading our financial markets over other people. And even if the losses are small or they're disparate and spread out, that's you know, fundamentally the principle at stake, where other people, particularly economists, so around and say well, actually, you know, by trading, these guys are helping making markets more efficient because they
make disclosures. People can look at the disclosures and ultimately it kind of helps wheel the grease the wheels of capitalism. And therefore it's a bit like you know, I sort of make the analogy of of of like drug enforcement. It's almost like an unwitnable thing. So prosecutors will be better off just ignoring it all together and accepting that this is kind of part of parting of the way that the world works. So the picture side this is it's also rather timely because you know, we have new
new chair in SEC. There's been some shatter in d C. What what what has been that chattering and where could we see this this conversation go on the regulatory front. Yes, so there's two. One is at the higher level political legislative level, where they're talking about actually introducing inside of trading statutes and rules which would have a quite profound impact.
And then there's the more kind of rule based stuff that's going on at the SEC where they have actually talked about and it looks like it could happen quite quickly reforming. One of the main culprits of this whole story, which these kind of the will tend be five trading plans and basically what it is, if you're an executive and you want to sell your stock, you could enter a plan with like a third party that says I'm going to trade x amount of stock over this period
of time. But the problem is these things are kind of right with loopholes and um, you know, it's been various kind of research showing how how vulnerable they are to abuse. So it looks like at least on that side of things, on the trading plans thing, there could be some movement. But again, the way that the law is written, my you know, my understanding of people are spoken. He says that there's only certain things they can do.
They can't completely solve the problems in the way that they'd like to without ripping up the rule because and rewriting the hole inside the trading law. But there is an advantage. Let's be fair, like an insider, whether they just soak up stuff as they work around the office, is uh fair to say that they soak up a
certain amount of information. There's got to be a little bit of bias in any trade that they do potentially, and you know, maybe maybe that's right that you get rewarded for that for doing such a good job, right or maybe not? And maybe this is something that we're going to hear more about. I love love, Love Love This story Must read Bloomberg Big Take cover story of Bloomberg Business this Week. Joe Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week.
Here in our studio, Bloomberg News Projects and Investigations. Reporter Liam Bond on the phone in London. Check it out. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, meet George Jetson. Maybe a little bit um not really really, but are you ready to welcome in Amazon's astro robot? Me? I don't know, are you know? I'm actually not? Okay, that's sorry, all right? And really what is it for?
And that's exactly what our Bloomberg News technology reporter Matt Day is asking in his latest story. He joins us on the phone in Seattle. Matt, good to have you here with Tim and myself. So tell us a little bit about the astro robot. So. Astro is a little foot and a half tall kind of a touch screen on wheels, um Amazon that it can follow you around, it could meet the family, It can do little security
sweeps in your home. And if it comes to a lot of the same voice activated shops and capabilities that people would note from their their Amazon smart speakers and Alexa devices, Well, what is the need for this? Right? Like? What is what is the problem this is solving? That is a great question, and if you read the initial coverage since Amazon's launch yesterday, everybody is asking that question. Um. Amazon, for their part, says, you know, home security is a
key capability of this thing. You know, if if you're gone, you can have it stream video of your kitchen or whatever to your smartphone. Um, which is in keeping with a lot of Amazon's pitch recently there if their home devices is it's basically a home security thing. Um. That's there's that off to that. But aside from that, there's not a whole lot um that this can do that you know, your your smart speaker can't already do or you know, if you might not need to be get
done at all. Okay, and just did at launch just to you know, be devil's advocate here I went. I had the same reaction when the first Alexa device came out years ago. I saw the video that Amazon put out and I was like, what is this thing? And that thing ended up just being an absolute home run for the company. Is there any kind of feeling like that, like, Okay, this could be a sleeper hit or this is like Amazon just throwing something against the wall and see if
it sticks. The Amazon's position if they think it's ripe enough that they want to try, right, Like just as they could put into the world a bare box you know, Echo and Eleca device that couldn't really do much at launch,
it might evolve into something else. They're kind of planting the flag here, and I think, um, you know, you're you're right to raise the echo example, But that's that's definitely the optimistic take from inside Amazon is that we think the tech is good enough that there's gonna be home robots. We might as well be there in some form or fashion and see if we can, you know, frankly, help customers figure out what to do with the thing. Well,
and maybe it's the first step. I mean, we've all remember Boston Dynamics, right, and those incredible robots that can that are lifelike terrifying, whether it's the dog, Yeah, terrifying works too. But you you you wonder about kind of where this is all going, and whether it's Amazon or other companies. I do feel like the world Matt to some extent is slowly moving in that direction. I mean, we don't mind that we've got a robot that vacuums are floor floors or or rugs. Like, we're all in
on that. So it's not too unusual, right to kind of stretch a little bit that at some point we might have some robot that's moving around in our house, maybe checking on kids, maybe checking on elderly family members. Maybe I don't know, you know, I'm not quite sure where this goes. I think nobody is. But we're really going to have to decide how comfortably want to be with surveillance, which is one theme that Amazon to keep talking.
You know, new devices with cameras and microphones on them, and you know that's that's great as long as you trust the company and faith and what's gonna be done with that data? But you know that's that's not something we traditionally had in our owns. Well, what are you
hearing about that? Because it isn't It's interesting with younger generations sometimes I feel like, yeah, I don't want people watching me, and then you know they're on their phone constantly with cation services, and yeah, you can find me wherever you want to find me. Um, Increasingly you walk into an office and you've got badges and different things and cameras throughout that are tracking you. You know, Uh, we see increasingly in the United States. You see it
a lot over in Europe or the UK. There's cameras outside everywhere, certainly over in China. So, uh, isn't that just kind of the whether, however you feel about it, that's kind of where we're all moving towards and there's a big chunk of the retail public that will tell you, you know, yeah, they're taking all of my data. Anyway, you might as well just get the cool news services.
But I think what we've seen in the last couple of years of companies like Amazon and like Google that do a mass a frankly great frightening throw v intol on us. They know they have to take this seriously. At least so they have seen I don't know whether we could call it a backlash, but enough of a ground towel of concern among consumers that they have to at least pay proper lift service of privacy and then
ideally you know, yeah, um, listen to us on it. Hey, Matt, I gotta ask you about other Amazon announcements yesterday that we saw from the company. The company announcing uh, it's a Halo fitness service that competes with Apple and also competes with Peloton's app. We saw Peloton stock take a hit yesterday. I take us into everything they're offering. So Halo Fitness. You know, for a long time after Amazon
released as Halo Band originally didn't have a screen. Um, folks, Speculative Courses is going to go into health and fitness tracking and loan behold it is bone Behold, it does have a screen on on the second version of the device. UM. Amazon's hoping this is all going to be enough a package to get to subscribed to pay a monthly fee um something like four bucks a month to um to activate all of the sort of health tracking benefits that
they say come with this thing. Um. You know, Halo was another Amazon for I think I kind of mixture used at launch, So it makes beteen whether it gonna be a big market for it. But certainly Wallster's taken through hey match just quickly. So how much does any of this move the financial needle or have the potential to at Amazon, be it the robot or fitness it
is unclear. They don't release a a lot of data on it, but you know it's it's part of a long term play to just keep us all engaged in their system and you know, ideally buying some more stuff in the retail site while we're at it. Astro a robot for you, Matt Day, Oh, I don't know. I'm not sure I can afford one at launch a thousand bucks or if you don't buy it at launch, right man, Yeah, that's training and when is it going to be obsolete? And if you want like pedigree or a name for
a specific name, you have to pay even more. Nowns Obazos is you know he's he's no longer CEO of the company, but maybe he should have brought one to space a few months ago. Stay tuned. Yeah, brother for that one. Matt Day, thank you, technology reporter at Bloomberg News on the phone from Seattle. You know, we all left at Elon Musk when he was going to try and disrupt the car industry, and look where we are. He disrupted it and everybody's really following in his path. Hey,
but he doesn't have that robot out yet. Remember what happened at the announcement a few months ago. It was like the person dressed up as a robot. This is a real robot. That was kind of funny. I felt like it was at Momon Chance or something or what is that called I'm roam. Yeah, but you let me drive? Oh no, no, no, no, this is not a twin. Please, I'll do the riding gravels. I want to drive. It's a good question. This is the drive to the clobe down on the blue Bird Radio. So just about ten
and a half minutes left in today's trading session. It is time for the close Carol Master along with Tim Stanovic, and we are seeing stocks taking another leg down there off their highs and lows of the session. Mixed trained, little change on the SMP up about four tens of a percent on the down, down about one tenth of a percent on the NASTAC Charlie breaking that down for you as well, looking forward to our drive to the close.
Guest Coast James Chuck Mark is back with us, partner and technology analyst at the asset management from Clock's Clockwise Capital, and James is back with us on the phone from Miami. James, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you so still in Miami? James? Not not moving back to New York yet. I was just in New York about a month ago for some meetings, but um kind of permanently in Miami. From the frezealable future. You're one of the one of the many, then help me make some sense
out of the market trade. It feels like things are getting a little tired there. We're definitely seeing more volatility, especially when it comes to some of the big tech names. We took out the ninety day moving average this week, or definitely below the fifty day on the S and P five hundred, But we are bouncing off and just hovering at that ninety day. We talk about, you know, dip buying and so on and so forth, but it feels like that's becoming a weaker and weaker trade. How
do you see it? Sure? So at the beginning of this year, obviously there was a lot of concerns around inflation and what's going to happen with interest rates and when it said going to temper um, and it appeared that the market is seeing that those fears are coming
into fruition. Now the question I think that investors are asking themselves is this something that is a prolonged thing or a sustainable upward trend that's going to move against the market, against technology stocks particularly, or is this something that's a temporary phenomenon where we have supply constraints and will be able to go through it and see some
positivity on the other side. So a lot of the I think the moves are being exacerated by algorithmic trading, But at the end of the day, that's the question that a lot of investors are asking themselves, including us, what do you think is it permanent or is it temporary?
We think it's temporary. We think we The analogy we make is this is a classic traffic jam where you know, this was somewhat self inflicted by closing out the economy um, but what as we reopen it, there are going to be constraints in terms of getting distribution back on track on the supply side, and also getting stocking back on track. So that's going to take time. We think it's going to be um it could last you know, several quarters,
potentially longer. But there is um brightness on the other side of it, because at the end of the day, the supply and demand will we calibrate. The only caveat that we make outside of what we do, which is predominantly technologies on the energy side, where the inflation that you see there um could be more prolonged than the rest of the sectors. But if you're looking at the predominant drivers of the market, technology of being at the forefront,
which is inherently deflationary in nature. We continue to have a very bullish posture over the near term as well, as the longer term. What you said about inflation really mirrors what we heard from J. Pow, Christine Leguard, Andrew Balley of the Bank of the the UK Bank a Bank of England, i should say, and B of J's Kuroda at that ECB form. They all talked about inflation really dominated the discussion, and they basically said, it's a
supply chain constraints. The problem is, you know, everybody feels in the dark right now because we don't know what the next leg of the pandemic. We understand the current leg, but we don't know what the next leg is. Having said that, you look at technology, what have you been buying? What have you been selling? Sure? I think right now what you have to do is move up in quality.
You know what you saw in the the initial part of the reopening that people were willing to move down balance sheet and the lower quality names just to get that reopening bump. But at this point, given the lack of visible visibility that we have in terms of the duration of these impacts, not that it's going to be prolonged, but how long will actually laugh um, you have to
move up into higher quality names. And secondly to that, you have to expose yourself and get get exposure to the themes that are going to dominate the next cycle. We're moving toward a centralized world to a decentralized one, and every company that you analyze it will this company, given the direction that the world is going into, the direction that society is going, Will these companies be more
relevant in several years times? And they are today? So with that in mind, you know, we really have exposure longtime exposure in in data management and data security, companies that are involved in the next wave of social interaction with the metaverse, and and the companies that bridge the gap between the analog world and the digital world of via logistics. What's the metaverse company that you're focused on? Facebook would like it to be the itself to be
the metaphorst company. We heard that from Mark Zuckerberg in the most recent earnings called what are you betting on? Sure? Sure? I mean Facebook? You know, we have a position in that UM and we think that there's going to be an integral part of it UM just given the the number of people that they serve UM. But we're looking at more UM as far as the next gen, bigger opportunities are concerned with the more your play entities like
roadblocks and Unity. We have a small position and Unity software. UM, so that's the one that we're playing right now. You also like, from what I understand, CrowdStrike holdings. You like Uber, Amazon, Square, YEP, Square, and Snowflake. UM. You know all those tackle the big beams in the future. You know, we're moving to the cloud. Cloud Strike helps you secure that moving to the cloud.
Snowplank stolps you manage that. Square is just disintermediating the card networks and financial institutions and Unity we talked about in Uber Amazon tackled the whole US again. Is there just quickly we just have about thirty seconds left here. Is there a tech name that you think people are still plowing into, a big tech that you're like, m it's done. The one big tech name where we're starting to second guest ourselves, and this has been a long
term position is Apple. We are looking at it with greater scrutiny. Now. Obviously the growth opportunities are still pervasive. They're just given their proliferation of their devices. But when you look at the economics of the business, UM, it's predominantly going to be driven by their ability to continue to buy back shares versus more littlebust growth on the
top line. So that's one where we're kind of second casting in terms of how much of a position do we really want to have in this into the next chapter. It's something I talked about with Kathy Wood, who said Apple's great, but ARC is about new technology and she was looking forward, um, always looking forward to. James Chalkmak comes on with us. He's partner in Tech analyst over Clockwise Capital on the phone from Miami. Thanks for listening
to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube. Search to Bloomberg Global News.