Live from BNY Mellon Pershing Insite

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All right, Well, when financial advisors need help, that's why they come to Orlando and the Bnymeil Impurshing Insight Conference. We are live from the World Center Marriott in Orlando at the event, and I'm so delighted to have back with us. Is Stephanie Pierce, chief executive officer of Dreyfus, Melon and ETFs at bn Y mail in Management here on site and joining me and Matt on BusinessWeek.

It is so great to see you again.

Great to be back.

I want to talk about because you guys have some news, but I promised I was going to start there, But actually I want to say, what do you make of the environment this year versus last year?

It's a very different environment, it is, right, I mean, I think this year we're looking at a situation where clients have been burned. Right, last year, nothing worked so hard, right sixty and forty both sides of the trade didn't work, and even though markets are up this year, people are still reeling from what happened. What could I have done differently?

To do, which is a perfect conversation. We're going to dig into that, Matt and I with you in just a moment. Tell us about some of the news though that you guys, because you do use this platform to kind of talk about what you are doing to help financial advisors.

Well, we're very excited today because we have a big announcement. So Bny Melan has just announced as part of our Pershing X initiative, the Pershing X Wove platform, and as part of that, which literally just happened in the next room, as you know, as part of that behind the curtain of Wove is B and Y Melan Precision Direct Indexing S and P five hundred, which is bringing the best of B and Y Melan's institutional indexing capability to financial advisors for the first time.

So unpack that. What does that mean?

So direct indexing is one of the fastest growing investment advisory products in the marketplace, to a kind of north of twelve percent a year, maybe more than that. There's predictions of how big this will get over the next number of years, rivaling things like ETFs and other things.

And they're so active or passive. It's passive, but it is passive.

But what's interesting is so you have all the kind of tax benefits that you would have in other tax efficient vehicles and good kind of you know, cost effective investment management, but for an advisor it allows them to sit on the same side of the table as their client and customize for them a solution that has kind

It's a separately managed account.

Matt come on in in the conversation.

Well, it sounds like the perfect way to do your own I hate to use the term esg right because people it's been sort of politicized. But you can put your own money where your mouth is effectively, or you can do that in collaboration with your financial advisor and make investments that you feel comfortable with, Investments that you feel comfortable.

With you can I mean, I think at the end of the day, what advisors are trying to do for clients again is sit on the same side of the table with them and figure out what's important to the client. And we know taxes are important, we know costs are important, and we know that clients and the different segments that they serve have different preferences. Taxes are part of that, but not the only part. And so these strategies allow you a level of flexibility and customization.

Essentially, think of it this way.

You're like last year, right where the markets did not only nothing, they did nothing good, right, but at the end of the year you could get this tax benefit of tax lost harvesting along the way. Then in a year like this, year where the NADAC is up you know, double digits, right, and there may be some gains that are associated with that.

With some of your actively managed.

Muta funds, you can use those losses booked in your direct indexing account to offset gains and other parts of the portfolio. So where an advisor can really add value is to not only do asset allocation, but asset location with their clients.

Right. So these are.

Less efficient strategies over here, and these are more tax efficient strategies to put them together and you can wipe away.

A lot of tax bill at the end of the year.

So that's where these have become credibly valuable tools for advisors to deliver value to clients.

So is this for you a better solution than having an in house fund manager or create an active ETF for you or one that could be actively traded traded.

Well, two very different things, right. This is solving for something different. This is providing for clients if you will beta exposure in core parts of the portfolio at a very cost effective you know price, and then they can

Stephanie, could you could you build an ETF that has active ETFs inside it?

Could you build a direct indexing portfolio with active etms? Is that what you meant, met Yep, Yes you could, Yes, So you can put any security inside these things. Of course, you know, we don't want to get too fancy and too complicated because then it becomes very difficult to explain.

All wrapped up in one bundle. For the client.

So we think that's really delivering unique value from our company. We call it one bny melon in terms of how we're delivering to clients. So, Matt, you could do all those things, but again we want to keep it simple and elegant for clients. The way I think about it is the active solutions and the passive solutions can work together in a portfolio to create both alpha at a cost cost effective manner, but also a tax efficient solution.

Stephanie, what's the constructive conversation around active right now?

Right?

For so long?

Passive just work so long that we all question whether or not active was even a strategy for the future. We know that that is, certainly we think about it differently now, So how do you guys think about it?

Because I was listening to you with a Paula.

That's still the case because the cues have outperformed every growth fund manager over the last five years, ten years, or fifteen years, and that's pretty passive.

That's a good point.

It does.

So now what Carol, referring to earlier, We're still fundamentally big believers in active management, and in certain areas.

Our funds are active, right, Yes, So for our ETFs.

We have seventeen ETFs, the two most recent ones are active, about half were active, half are passive, and the two most recent ones are a classic example of where active works really well, which is thematic investing. About of the one hundred and twelve billion or so of thematic ETFs, about seventy seven percent of them are passive.

So we think we're bringing.

Something really different and unique and Carol, as we were talking earlier, one of these is BKIV, which is bny melan innovator as ETF.

So think of it this way.

If you look at the last fifteen years of the S and P five hundred, about about fifty two percent of the securities that we know as S and five hundred stocks have actually disappeared from you, not just from the benchmark, would have disappeared as companies. So what this product is trying to do, the Innovator's Fund, is to think forward in terms of who are those companies that are disrupting the way we live, the way we work, the way we play, the way we do things.

Is this the Kathy, I'm afraid to introduce this because Matt's going to go crazy on me, But is this kind of the Kathy would effect to some extent, right, making us think about, Okay, what are the companies, the futures, the trends you know for the future, the trends, the technologies.

Well, I'm not going to comment on anyone else out there, but I will say that this is an area that we've been focused on for many, many years, never in an ETF before, so we're very excited to bring it.

But this is an area where we want.

Investors to have the ability to think forward and have access to companies that are going to disrupt the companies that are in these spaces today. And statistically, like I said, we know that if half of those companies disappear, that are the companies we know today. You want to be thinking forward and having a part of your portfolio invested in that. So, Carol, the other one just while I'm while I have the mic here yep, well, jo.

Just how do you hedge against I mean, being early is the same as being wrong, right, So how do you hedge against that you don't want your product and end up looking like Kathy Woods Mathew Woods.

So, Matt, this is why we think about having a portfolio.

Right.

We talked about direct to next thing we talked about thematic ETFs. You don't put all your eggs in one basket, you know, it's kind of like biotech investing, right. You want to do it in a portfolio construct because you don't know how it's all going to work. So the thematic ETF is a component of an overall portfolio.

Right.

The other ETF that I wanted to just quickly mention that we also launched a couple of weeks ago, which I have to say makes all fifty two thousand people at my company, particularly the women.

Incredibly proud to work.

Here is a B and white Melon Women's Opportunities ETF. And the thesis here, of course, as we all know, is that companies to do the right things by women in terms of recruiting, retaining, promoting, and supporting them to be able to do it all actually perform better than companies who don't do those things.

So here we actually have.

A component of philanthropy to the product, where we're giving ten percent of net profits to Girls Inc. To support the empowerment of girls starting at age five all the way up through high school and college, and the rates of graduation and empowerment of those girls is pretty powerful. So it's a good cause that we're contributing to, and we're really excited about it.

What have been the flows into these funds?

I know they're new, they're brand new, so too early to come by care Okay, okay, we've just say to them. But I will say the interest is really high. And back to Matt's point, I think you know you were talking earlier about market levels. I think we're entering at a pretty good time, right, markets have been are all over the place, So.

Why do you say that? What do you think? We only got about forty five seconds left.

Look, I mean I think you know people are really uncertain. I mentioned, you know, people are trying to figure out what to do. Their sixty forty portfolios didn't work last year.

And give me a hard time when I said we're trying to see if we find a are finding a bottom. He's like, look, the S and P's up twenty percent from that October low, and I'm like, well do we buy it?

Well, look, I mean here's what we know, right, we know, you know interest rates, you know, short term rates, thirt five percent?

Cash is sexy, as.

We like to say, no, you know, giving everything all run for its money, everything else and run for its money. That being said, as we know, if we think we're into heading into potential slownown or even a shallow recession as.

Vince reindhard or economist things.

Yeah, you know, we know that equities tend to lag right in terms of fixed income fixingcome tends to do better kind of inter recession. Equities tend to do better as you're coming out, as you bought them and come out. So that's where I think that from evaluation perspective, we're an interesting place to enter with these ETFs right now because valuations are pretty.

But interesting, good versus interesting.

I agree with that.

So great to check in with you.

Thank you guys.

Be well.

Stephanie Pierres, chief executive Officer of Dreyfus, Mellen and ETFs at B and Y Mellon Investment Management on site with us at the B and Y Melan Purging Insight Conference. Lots more to come from me in Orlando, Matt back at our New York headquarters.

Stick around, folks. You are listening and watching Bloomberg Business Week, and this is Bloomberg Radio.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch US live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or watch us live on YouTube.

We are live from the World Center married in Orlando. Are at the b and Y Melan Purging Insight Conference. I'm Carol Massler here in Orlando. Matt Miller back there at our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio in New York City, and our next guest. We're going to talk about a bunch of things, Matt, because we have M and A activity because she was on a panel a breakout involving what was going on with M and A, and she also talked about talent and the war in talent. So

It's big out to day, It's Melon Pershing. Welcome. How are you great? Doing great? So let's start.

You did do two breakouts. What's really cool about this event is it's finance professionals who have so many questions about different things and everything impacts them. And I always say that everything in our life has a business element to it, a market element to it. Whether it's public or private, it all comes together. So let's talk specifically.

But we do see deals happening.

How do you think about the M and A environment and what did you want to convey to the groups here?

So in our little world of arias and advisory film, so I was certainly seeing a shift in the types of M and A deals that are happening. It's nothing particularly new, but bigger deals, a lot more strategic deals, a lot more minority investments. Gone are the days of the small elderly advisor is selling because they have nothing else to do. Now it's really I'm selling because this is the right strategic decision for my firm now before I get too far gone in my career. And I

Well you're talking about in the advisory firm, right among advisory firms, is does it get more complicated? You know in terms of I don't know some of the issues that are coming down. We talk a lot about AI, the role of technology, or does it make it easier to be a part of a group.

I think it makes it easier.

When we look at technology and the evolution of how technology is used. It used to be we bought technology to replace a person. Now we're hiring people to help enable that technology. And the technology has broadened, it's gotten more complicated, and we need more thoughtful technologists to run those You can't do that if you have fifteen people who need to be part of that fifty hundred two hundred person organization. And so M and A is really

Matt, you want to come on in.

So, Lisa, are you saying that this market is there's no longer a place for independent advisors and smaller firms.

Well, I didn't say there's no longer a place, but good try there. So no, I think there's always going to be a place for smaller independent firms. There's always going to.

Because we have a guest coming up later that's going to talk, but it's independent.

We have lots of great clients who are continuing to be independent, and that's great.

There's a place for all of that.

There are end clients that are always going to want that I know this person because I went to school with them, or they have been on my street or you know, my families use them for years. And then there are those that want the big brand and the flashy names and that, and that's okay. There's a market for everybody, and as our industry matures, we have to be able to provide a broader spectrum of services to a broader spectrum of clients. And this is allowing that to happen.

I am curious when it comes to clients specific Oh go ahead, Matt, go ahead.

I was just gonna ask, you know, if you if you want to provide those services, a broader array of services and serve a broader array of clients, how is it finding the talent to do that? I mean, is it is it difficult right now? Or is that difficulty only reserved for like, you know, giant hedge fund managers.

No, I say, every firm that I've worked with in the last year has said I'm hiring, And whether they're advertising for those hires or not, they're all hiring. And we're no longer hiring for senior people. They want junior power planners, they want the three to five year experienced advisors, and they want the back office and the operations people.

The great strategy but kind of an expensive one.

No, well, I mean not really because the cost of hiring someone and training them and bringing them on at least then you're bringing on revenue too, right, right?

Is that continuing?

Yes?

Absolutely, It's interesting because then how do you juxtapose this against you know, we talk often about the labor market still is really tight. How do you kind of think about the more broader labor story versus what your guys are seeing in your industry.

Yeah, So for those of you who are here at INSIGHT today, we have sixty five students here this part of our student experience program that we've been doing since twenty sixteen. We're trying to bring more and more students to the conference so that advisors can meet them and hire them and bring them in. There are about one hundred and thirty universities around the country that offer CFP designation programs. That number continues to grow, but those students

Well, Matt, you and I've had conversations right with guests about the importance of financial literacy and starting really really early.

Yeah.

I mean, if I were the boss, we would start that in elementary school. If not, you know, maybe middle school. I wonder, Lisa, when we see a bunch of pretty decently sized banks fail, or when we see you know, a UBS takeover at Credit Suite and they've got to dispose of some assets, have you been able in the last few months to find some good deals out there? Have you been able to pick you know, up talent or systems that are useful to you?

So at Pershing, we've been hiring a lot of people. Our business continues to evolve, and we are hiring from all kinds of places in industry and out of industry. And the advisory firms that I work with, same thing. They're bringing people who heard somebody this morning talk about how they hired somebody out of Microsoft to help them run their IT infrastructure in an advisory firm years ago that never would have happened.

And you don't see any of that slowing down.

No, No, I mean the consolidation just continues to gain momentum and create more new and different ways for us to do business and so have clients and create more value for them.

I am also curious that in terms of I'm listening to you, it's funny a second conversation here during our broadcast, and it sounds like a lot of optimism.

I mean, based on what you're seeing.

We Matt and I spend time with our TV colleagues and just with all of our guests, you know, kind of batting around, are we going to miss a recession? Are we going to see a soft recession? Based on what you're seeing and the demands of the clients that you all work with, and then just your fight for talent, what does it tell you about kind of the broader economic outlook.

Yeah, I'm definitely not the economist, but these are like important factors. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think you know, with these students that are coming out of programs, there's enough jobs for all of them. And even in a recession, that's a time where it end investors you and need our advisors more than ever. So it's up to the advisors to be creative, to think about the profitability of

Does AI just make this even crazier?

So we've got a couple of firms AI. So actually we were just talking that about this with one of our firms last week at a different conference, and her next hire is somebody to do AI for the firm, not because they know what they want to do right, but they know they need to do something right.

And they don't want to be left behind, right, So just to check it out.

What a pleasure, lovely to see, so good and great to attack both of those worlds they definitely like tie together. Lisa Crawford, she's director of a director and head of business Consulting at b and Why Melon Purshing joining us here on site at B and Why Melon Pursing Insight Conference, Listen and watching Bloomberg BusinessWeek. I'm Carol Masser here in Orlando. Of course, Matt Miller back there at Bloomberg Headquarters in New York City.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business App and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

We are delighted to have with us Trey Prescott.

He's director of business development at the Atlanta based Registered Investment Advisory Advisory Services Network, and he's joining us live from the World Center Married in Orlando at B and Y Melon Pershing Insight.

Nice to meet you.

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.

It's a pleasure to have you here. And you're going to talk to you because it is interesting.

We just had a conversation about, you know, investment advisors joining forces. Tell us about what you do because you really help independence, right the opposite advisors.

Go I'll sit in a very fortunate seat.

I get to work with advisors from wirehouse banks, broker dealers and really telling them the best ways to go independent. And if I'm lucky enough, they'll come over to our firm and Advisory Services Network. But we enable them to self brand and we take care of all the back office and they can manage and prospect their book.

So they're kind of right.

They stay on their own, right on their own, are dealing all of it, with all their back office yep.

So they they create the brand, they manage the money. It's their book of business. But they're just aligning that independence through our firm as a member of ASN, and we do all the billing, compliance, operations, all the all the day to day minutia that they have no.

Interest in doing.

Why do most come to you.

Most because they hate compliance, they hate operations, they hate billing, They don't want to deal with the sec They want to do what they do best, and that's building their book or prospecting those new clients. And you know, unfortunately, and fortunately we're in a we're in a great space right now for the independent rep. But most out there they don't know what's good for them and they don't know or have a proper education is what's available to them.

I want to bring my co host Matt Miller in in just a moment. But how big has the network gone? Because you said you've been doing this for thirteen.

Years, this will be my fourteenth year this fall.

I did five years on the operations team and sales on the other side. So we get to work with a number of different reps. And as of right now, Advisory Services networks almost seven billion in about forty five states, and those advisors roughly are a ten million dollar upstart. At our largest shops about four four hundred and fifty million. So it's all across the board and we service a lot of different entities.

Matt, come on in.

Yeah, I'm just wondering if your advisors are then more independent than they would be at say, I don't know, like amor Prize or PREW or any of the others like that. What makes them so independent? Do they not have any proprietary products to push.

They are on our eighty but they are self branding as a member of our firm. Adv is a brochure supplement, basically saying.

If they're on our RIA or if they're their own RIA.

But generally, I mean those reps coming over to us, they are looking for an independent space where they can manage the money, they can pick and choose the products. We don't push that type of stuff. We're an independent IE platform, meaning we're doing all the day.

To day minutia of the RIA.

So we're not pushing product, we're not pushing brand, and we're not pushing a five year, ten year lockup or upfront money. It's a straight independent service platform for those type of reps who want to create their own brand, sell for the highest multiple down the road, but also maintain that independence and open architecture for as long as possible.

All right, So Matt, you wanted to follow us?

Well, yeah, I mean, how many people are leaving bigger firms to come to you and where are they coming from? Is there something specifically that they all share that they all don't like about having to work for you know, another boss, another boss.

That's a very long conversation right there.

What I will say is that last year I spoke to one hundred and eighty four groups in total meeting. If you've got ten million in AUM or over, they were generally qualifying US as an independent RIA platform this year alone. This morning actually I spoke to my one hundred and fifty fifth group already. If that tells you anything about the space, A lot of those reps are

So I am curious about the financial advisors, and you've been doing this for so long. What are you seeing about the individuals? What are some of the demographics. Are they getting younger, are they getting older? Are they getting what?

It's amazing how many entrepreneurs there are in the industry. Most people that you think about in our industry are at a wirehouse and a you know, with a bear and the bull in the front of it. A lot of people out there, they want to create their own practice and they want to create their own brand, and that's what we answer for. Demographics wise. Look, I'm a family owned firm, family owned company. My dad started us fourteen years ago as an offshoot from our consulting practice mainstay.

It's getting generational.

A lot of advisors are bringing in their sons or daughters to help answer for that next generation of clients. But that also makes it sticky. A lot of reps are liking that. I right now, you may argue with me on this. I see the industry getting a lot younger and a lot more hip as to the technology and tools that are available to them now and going independent. Ten years ago, someone thirty thirty five years old probably.

Never thought about going independent. So we're trying to answer for that diversity as well. Diversity as well.

Yeah, we had well we were talking with Lisa Crawford just a moment ago from Pershing and she said, you know, if you want to have a really broad, deep and complex technology offering, then you've got to have, you know, more than fifteen people in your firm.

Do you disagree, No, I don't disagree.

I mean, look, we're a different type of firm right here, and that we are a full scale RIA. But if you do want to be a single man or woman practice with one hundred million under management, you can do it.

It's hard. Yeah, it may not be.

The best use of your day dollar and overhead, but you can certainly do it right now. And as long as there's aria is like us coming out there, more and more advice is going to go independent.

You know.

One of the other things that Lisa Crawford talked with Matt and me about too, is you know, the hunt for talent, the talent wars. What about the talent war for you all in terms of the back office operations right that you've got to support for all these registered investment advisors who want to go independent, but they need someone to take care of kind.

Of that stuff.

Well, we're hiring right now.

We're looking for two to three reoperations, two to three compliance people.

It is. It's a war out there right now. Generally we're having to pay up. We're having to pay up right now.

But we're also we're seeing how many fifteen twenty thirty year veterans are being let go of their current firms for the younger generation. But that's opening up seats for us to bring on those type of veterans of services independent reps that.

We have, which you know we typically are.

This will be the first year that we're doing an actual internship, but with that, we are looking for those veterans in our industry to help service our independent reps because that's what they expect right now.

Yeah. Interesting, Trey, thanks so much for stopping by.

Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate you.

Guys, appreciate it.

Trey Prescott, Director of Business Development and Advisory Services Network. Here onsite at BNY Mailing Purshing Insight Conference in Orlando.

This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio.

Matt, we recently talked without Bloomberg for sixteen and it was about collectible collectibles market and how it was cooling kind of coming off the pandemic and if you think about alt investments. It is things like cars and you know, art, but it's also real estate. It's also private equity, it's hedge funds, it's a lot of different things, even cryptocurrencies. So we're going to talk a little bit about that right now and really that importance of women being in

Welcome, Welcome, Thank you, Carol, Thank you for having me.

It was a long introduction, so forgive me no problem.

But it is interesting because it's you know, there's your kind of Plaine Vanilla right market investing that we talk a lot about here at Bloomberg.

Matt and I certainly do.

But when you think about the alt space, and it is things like art and so on, but it's also real estate, it's private equity, it's a lot of stuff. First of all, can I start broadly, sure what you're thinking about that space right now?

So that's actually a great question.

We had a panel this morning about why alternatives now, like why is important for you to have some spectrum of an alternative investment in your asset allocation? And really the key themes that came out of that panel, which are the same things that I agree with, are given all the market volatility that we've seen in the last.

What has it been, year, eighteen months?

Two years?

You know better than I have, it's so important that you have some type of strategy in your portfolio that's uncorrelated to the market, that helps you provide downside protection. And I really think alternatives can do that and do do that for investors, whether it is private credit, or art or real estate or hedge funds, which is what I'm focused on.

Okay, So before I bring that in, so which is the alt investment space? Because we spend some time at MILK and also again another year where it was all about the private markets and private credit in particular, in terms of when you look at this environment and if you're trying to hedge some of the volatility, where is it that you think investors or where was the conclusion in that panel that people should be in the alt space?

Where's the interest? Where's the opportunity?

Excellent question. You know, there was not a consensus in terms of where the opportunity was. I mean, they echoed the same things that.

You just had everybody said crypto.

No one said crypto, actually, but everyone you know, there was definitely a lot of interests, which is what we've seen in terms of private credit, private debt.

People believe there'll be opportunities there as well.

But then there's also opportunities in the more liquid alternative strategies, so hedge funds maybe that are market neutral and allow investors to kind of hedge out some of that market risk. There's certainly you know, interests in that as well. So I think it kind of is wide, you know, in

All right, come on in, Matt.

So in terms of hedge fund performance, do you find it to be consistent? Because I feel like there are years when they're up big and there are years when they're down big. But you know, the OG hedge fund at least the idea the word should mean that if the market is down a lot, you don't lose as much. And if it's up a lot, maybe you don't gain as much, but that's what you pay for. Gain as much, but that's what you pay for.

So, Matt, excellent question.

You know what I always tell people when we're doing sessions like get Insight or other conferences, when we're talking to investors about the importance of alternative strategies, it's really in these kind of markets where a hedge fund manager should really be proving their worth, right, That's where they demonstrate why you want to have them, you know, their strategy, their investment style in your portfolio, because that's really where

Right.

So it's these types of environments where a hedge fund managers can really prove the are worth so to speak, and really demonstrate why they add value.

So what do you think the strategies are, Well, what are the most popular strategies right now?

Strategies right now?

Oh, excellent question.

That would actually be a good question for our kind of capital introductions teams who are more focused on that space, I think that they're again they're seeing kind of a wide interest from the investors that we that we work with our investor relationships. Again, depending on liquidity preferences, you know, the type of structure people are looking for. You know,

We see a lot of opportunities.

Is private credit is still a great idea, you know, as we see if as we see credit really start to tighten up right now, as we expect more and more firms to go bust, is it really the best idea to go into that privately rather than play the public markets the public markets.

It's a really good question because I will say that for two years at Milkin, it's been the golden era of credit, private credit. And when I start to hear that, it makes me a little nervous having seen just like that, and you you know, we've seen lots of market cycles and everybody's like, yeah, all in, you get a little nervous, Especially when we were in a market where there's credit.

Concerns, absolutely, and I think that makes a lot of sense.

You know.

I have to be honest, I'm not the expert when it comes to private credit. Most of what we deal with within prime services is in the liquid markets, so I'm much more familiar with those strategies, you know. I think the people in our panel this morning, I'm sure we can give you some points from some of that discussion. Really, they had some good reasons why they thought private credit could still be positive in the next few years, having to do with the different credit cycle, you know.

They said that, and to.

Be fair, everybody I talked to you at Milkin, you know, was still all in on private credit, so they could definitely bullish. So you're you're on point, okay, good and and folks can actually taking it well then, Carol, because you're driving.

Private credit is not my area of expert.

It's another space. But it's been like so on everybody's radar. And we just had a great feature out from our Bolomberg News team and everybody can also check out the

Well as women, of course we know this, right, It's still there. No, it's still there.

Look, this is something that personally that I'm very passionate about this topic. Pershing Prime Services, Pershing BNY, Melon as a whole, we're all very passionate about this topic because exactly as you said, we believe that having diversity is so beneficial for many reasons. I mean, one of the things we talked about on the panel was that by having like a women len manager or women in senior investment roles, you actually tend to have more diverse teams.

So I think there's lots.

Of different benefits to have in diversity that people don't even think about. Whether it's the diversity of thought, the diversity of opinion, the diversity of talent that you recruit if you're a woman. So I think there's a lot of benefits to investors, and the more kind of different opinions in different representation we get, the better we are as an industry.

Yeah, I agree.

I mean, you know, I think we've established for a long time that diversity is important. So we agree, we agree, No, but it.

Is, you know, I will say, I mean right, I mean one of the things I love working with someone like Matt is we have different thoughts on things, but I also agree. Lisa like, it's amazing in the investment space. I feel like I've been in doing covering markets and things for a long time that this is a conversation that we're still having.

And I am curious.

What's the narrative that you're having with investment advisors and clients of BE and why mil En purging you know about this?

Is it moving a loss?

So it is moving along, Carol, excellent question, and to give you some hope, some optimism, it's definitely moving along. Actually, in anticipation of this conference, we did a survey of a lot of our investor relationships just to get their thoughts on the topic and what they think about specifically women led managers, women led funds, senior women investment professionals, and the data that we got from the survey was

They want to say, there is demand, there is demand.

Is a pool not there for them to drop on or what?

Well, that's the biggest challenge is there's not a huge, huge universe.

Of female at talent. But that's improving too.

I mean, we started this conversation actually at our Insight conference last year. Yeah, and in that time when we do the panel again a year from now, we've seen two very large hedge fund launches by female managers over a billion dollars. We've seen women be put into key roles at some of the largest alternative asset management firms out there.

You know, Man has a woman's CEO.

Bridgewater announced that they're going to have a female co CIO. So I think that we even though the pool might be small, it's growing and it continues to increase and be important to people.

Yeah, and I just think about the conversation Matt and I have with Lisa Crawford over at B and Y Male and Pershing about the importance of advisors going into schools and start, you know, talking to kids at a young age. Yes, for financial literacy, which is something we've all been kind of pounding the table about that to be part of education, but also you know, it says to kids, here's what you can do.

Absolutely, and we talked about this on the panel last year.

We're going to talk about it tomorrow. But I think that's so important and even for young.

Peoples that are thinking about their careers, like the financial services industry offers such a variety of different career paths and so no matter what you're interested in, you can probably.

Find some failing Just explain it all.

Right, Fingers Crost.

We're making We're making progress. Lisa, Thank you so much, tail much to check in with you. We can Ruin, Vice President, director for Prime Services Division at BNYMIL encoursing on site at b ANDYMIL Encoursing USITE conference.

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