J&J Shot Increases Hesitancy on Clot Risk

You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Let's talk a little bit about what's going on with the visor, with the Visor, with the virus um Visor and BioNTech. They do expect to deliver more vaccines to the European Union this quarter

than currently targeted. We're seeing, you know, some things go on when it comes to different vaccines and getting them rolled out, rolled out, Denmark becoming the first EU country to drop astro zenneck astro Zeneca's vaccine. So it's kind

of a back and forth here. Yeah, And as far as those numbers, we repeat them each and every day and they change globally cases of sur past a hundred thirty seven million death six seating two point nine six million, but vaccines continuing to tick up more than million shots given worldwide. You and I each getting one, I know, well my second one at the end of the week. Oh, I'm so glad to hear Friday Friday. Hey, let's get our daily check on COVID and the vaccine roll out.

Great to have back with us, Alyssa wraps she see of the healthcare solutions company, Surgical Solutions. She's back with us on the phone from Deerfield, Illinois. Alyssa, nice to have you here with him and me again. How are you pleasure to be in touch with you both again? And I too? Am one shot in different from the last time. We feel is different? He doesn't feel different totally. Well, okay,

so tell us what you're hearing, especially with your healthcare workers. UM, I am curious because of the J and J vaccine, there's already a fair amount of vaccine hesitancy out there. How does this make that potentially worse? There's no question

that makes it worse. And I agree with Nate Silver of five thirty eight Fame that the statistician that that that he's worried that hesitancy you'll get more people kill than actually getting the vaccine, because sticks out of cases out of seven million is by no means statistically significant. As terrible as it is that anyone had an adverse reaction, but I am concerned because J and J the one and done was such a convenient thing to do and such a good thing to do for many healthcare workers

and others alike, and college students. I know a lot of college kids. That's how they got it. Yeah, not also for the people who are the elderly, who have potentially more depressed immune systems, it was not necessarily as rough or lethal. So it's really unfortunate. Obviously, I don't know if I agree with the decision to pull it in order Nate silver it is what it is. It

does increase hesitancy. The only silver lining in spite of that is that there's been such improvement on distribution that I've talked about with you all before and how challenging it's been, and finally we're seeing more vaccination appointments at Walgreens and cvs and Sans clubs, etcetera, just like we had forecasted that would be a great solve. And so at least there's more There are more places to get

vaccines if and when you already more being produced. So even if it's limited now to temporarily exclude J and J, at least there are more places you can get it

if you want. Is there any silver lining that that that we can look at in the sense that this is not just a story about J n J, but it's also a story about Fiser, BioNTech and Maderna, given that so many of those shots have been given and there haven't been those reports of those serious adverse reactions and tim there and efficacy once their minister, I'd take it one step further and say, these are cadillacts of vaccines and if you can get them, you're incredibly fortunate.

Go do it, and and you know you're already getting almost eight percent immunity with the Fiser shot after shot one, which is a real big deal. To your point, it feels good to be vaccinated, it feels good to be freer. So I do think that's really really a positive look. I gotta say, I'm just like nodding in agreement here. I was such a relief for me to, you know, close to ten days ago at this point, to drive out of that CVS parking lot with that band aid on.

It felt like a way it had been lifted off. You know, we're in this pandemic and like this is the first step and most important step to get out of it. Well. And I'm going to add on to that that this past week that are a week ago, we had a little scared at our home and it was a false positive, but nonetheless we went through the quarantine again and my daughter was requested in her bedroom. But I have to say my husband was fully vaccinated.

I had one, she had none. And we're thinking, oh my god, we got this far, and we were really stressed out about it and grateful that we ended up all testing negative and everything's fine, but it's a reminder to me all of a sudden, I said in my head, I'm so glad I've got the vaccine. Can't wait to get the second one. Well, and it's really amazing that, you know, we are very fortunate still to feel this way.

Only twenty two percent of the country is fully vaccinated and thirty six percent or one shot in as of yesterday for the CDC, and so we're still less of the population those of us that can jump for joy and feel like we are at least, you know, good to go for this realm. So I feel really bullish that everyone who can get it was eager to get it. Should And if it's fives room and Aaron, it takes two shots versus one for at least a period of time,

so be it due to two and just keep going. Well, listen, how's this playing out when it comes to to your staff is on the front lines? Because we have talked to you in the past about vaccine hesitancy among frontline workers, among healthcare workers, but we've also heard about data that show that when more people do get vaccinated within social circles, people start to get on board if they were hesitant

in the beginning. How's it playing out for your employees? Um, we have, as you would imagine, it's an astute question. We have had pockets of perseverance and pockets of hesitancy. So some of the hesitancy has not surprisingly detailed with states or geographies that are more hesitant in general because of their political persuasions and and where we've seen there being a lot of administration of the vaccine. Like New York City people are much less hesitant and much higher

vaccination rates even within our own firm. I think that what's interesting is is that how Corona continues to play out is also really geo focused. As factually said, it might be all along. We've got hospitals in Michigan that are already teeming with COVID patients again fearing the second variant is here. And there are other places that are like empty with COVID right now, which just isn't happening right now, and it might be too strong, but but

very low incidents of COVID patients. Well, it's gonna be varied, It's going to be endemic, right This is this is part of our world. I mean, I was talking to a bunch of CEOs this morning for a Bloomberg event and they're like, we need to be ready for the

next one because it's coming. I mean, how do you guys see what are the conversations, Unlissa, you guys are having around that conversations are get the first round of vaccinations pera, proferably with the efficacy, because then to tweak around the margins for variances with boosters is much easier than if you're starting from phase zero, and if you in and and of course if you have already gotten vaccinated, even if it is a variant that isn't perfectly uh protected,

maybe it'll be a diminished immunal response. So you just have to hope that this first round of vaccinations is laying the foundation, which I actually believe it is. Still thinking about J and J here even though this happened, you know, at this point close to thirty six hours ago, do you think this is the end of the J and J shot? Even if it if it, you don't, Okay, So even if it don't, I'm not I have no insider information on James Dan. I'm not a board member.

But they've administered six point a million doses and there were six cases and they were all amongst women who experience these low levels of blood platelets um in combination with their vaccinations. So do I think there will be necessarily additional screens and flags when you should not necessarily

get the J and J shot. Sure, but it's a it's a blood clot, you know, the cerebral venice sinus thrombosis c v s T, which hopefully they can research further and help screen better for the patients who would be a risk, or tweet the vaccine to not cause that response. But again I do agree with Nate Silver, this is unfortunately statistically insignificant. And you know, the risk of getting COVID and having it newly adverse health reaction is higher than the risk of having an adverse reaction

from J and J Lettle on anything else. So but when I and when I say and, I don't mean

that it will be permanently pulled or suspended. What I mean is, even if it does get back to the point where the agencies are recommending that it be given in States, is there a chance that that ship sailed when the agency has made this decision to make this recommendation and it ultimately lead to people saying, Okay, well no thanks to the to the J and J. Instead, I'm going to go with the MR and A shots It could, it could any other reality is we also

don't know what else is in the on the horizon to be for emergency approval. I know Astrosonica on others that have been produced globly are not popular or used here yet, but there will probably still be additional innovations yet that can continue to protect Americans from COVID nineteen and this variant or others. So I'm I'm still going to bet on the technology and the innovators. It's just

how I'm wired and what I believe in. But I do think that, you know, it's it's a tough position to be in for j J. I don't think it will be the last we see of their vaccine. But even so, whether it is or isn't, fortunately we have enough of the others being produced and so much more widespread distribution that really, you know, if people want to be getting these vaccines Aprile after April nineteen, which we obviously hope they do, they should have no challenge doing so.

There are some states that are have much higher stats than the national averages I've given you fully vaccinated some states anyone over sixteen is be knowledgeable for a long time. Less populous states, But there are states that are closer to herd immunity than the country as a whole. So let's all get there as quickly as we can. How important is it all that we all get quickly globally, get there quickly globally ALYSSA in order to really getting

ahead of this and beyond it. I think economically it's absolutely crucial, and I think pragmatically it's also really important. We live in a global marketplace and a global business enterprise, and the phony and false yet real. I guess that's anoxy more on walls we've put up in this in this last year and a half in terms of freedom of movement internationally have real consequence. I haven't been able

to get my parent from France. On a very personal note, I have friends who are not being able to see loved ones with the ease in Europe, though, we need a solve globally for these vaccination schedules so that we can begin that freedom of movement and goods more easily, absolutely as soon as possible. It will be best for the global economy. Otherwise, the people negatively impact in the country's negatively impact by this are going to get even

more acutely, you know, impacted economically. We listen. We always like to check in with you about the health of the business. Speaking of economics, just give us an update about about where you are worth with surgical solutions and also what you're seeing in the healthcare industry right now

as it weather is more than a year of the pandemic. Absolutely, so March versus March, we were actually what well we'll call the in March twenty nine, even more poignantly, we had seen a nice material jump in terms of same store growth, meaning elective surgeries were back, optings were operating at the levels we would want them to be to be considered have recovered. Not again, that's not even and that's not everywhere, but that is, by and large, it

was a very strong March. Things like the major global freeze in texts, the major freeze in Texas, the winter storms, Arctic events, those that did depressed electri surgery volumes. In January, there it seems to have been a recovery. March seemed quote quote quote unquote back to normal. But you know, hospitals are still going to end up likely losing as

a whole fifty three billion this year. That's fifty three b in a best case scenario in this country, because it's been so expensive to support all of the COVID nineteen pandemic related healthcare needs. And so the good news is the Care's Act is helping keep our healthcare system in the Black. The better news is is that you know, missesses some other of invention and people are truly learning to operate as lenly as they possibly can. But it's

it's gonna be. I think Spotty will have strong months like March like we just did as a company, and I think in healthcare, and then we'll also have probably some dips if and when that those variants take us urge and we see that there are places that keep popping up, like I know Michigan is right now teaming

with Covidation. Yeah, it's been a long year, long thirteen months of somebody reminded Lissa, and you have been so kind to always find time for us and just keep us up to date on what you and your team are seeing. So thank you for us. Glad you're still doing okay and your team is doing it doing wells as well. Lista thank you. Lessen Wrap, CEO of the healthcare solutions company Surgical Solutions, once again joining us from Deerfield, Illinois.

This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Well. This week's cover story the new issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine, which will be out on newsstands later this week as well as online and on the Bloomberg terminal, is about a twenty three year old programmer, Tim who is keeping

American extremists online. Yeah, his name is Nick Limm, and he provides tech support to US networks of white nationalists and conspiracy theorists that have been banned by the likes of Amazon. Joining us now is Joel Webber, editor Bloomberg Business Week, joining us on the access line from Brooklyn. And William Turton, cybersecurity reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us on the phone from New York City. Joel, William this

is just a fascinating story. It's technology, it's a it's about free speech, and it's it's also about this this twenty three year old Joel um who is Nick lamb So Nick lay Actually, yeah, we'll let Turtain go with that one. No, No, Bill is your you did great story, Go ahead and take it away. Who's Nickolin. Nick lam is the CEO and founder of von Wa Tech, which is a technology startup that's head quartered in Vancouver, Washington, and it provides a kind of a specialized set of

web services that are key to keeping websites online. Now, you know the websites that we kind of mentioned here, Nick doesn't actually host them, but he provides an essential

service keeps them online. Significant about that is the context that the world has found itself in since UM January six right, and what we what what the U s UM experience then and the aftermath of it UM as a little bit more attention was was paid to where infrastructure internet infrastructure lies and what we saw afterwards UM was that you know, the a ws is of the world did a little bit closer look and basically kicked

a lot of people off their products. So where Nick Limb fits into all of this is that he's basically a service provider of last resort. And and so h William to talk us more about like how Nick lam became became that and why he why he feels that that's important. Yeah, I mean you're talking earlier than it's a story about technology and free speech, but it's also kind of a story about the island. Nick is someone who, you know, according to people I spoke to, is technically skilled.

He is actually proficient in providing these services and has been doing it from a very young age actually, But you know, to him, I mean he kind of stubbed up his ideology to me as if it's legal in the US, I don't care um. And you know, at one point he told me when he uh offered free services to Andrew England, who runs the white nationalist websites Daily Stormer, that raised his profile and made him famous.

So you know, Nick would care professed to care about free speech and providing a platform to those who have been centered by a big tech then he would also say, you know, as long as pep, I don't care well. And who are some of his clients, So you know, the most important client of his and one that he has actually a very close relationship with his which just

a home of Q and on um. It's where Q and on posted and and you know the people who run that website are widely speculated to be Q and Nick even went to Japan with those people to celebrate the watch of the site. And and Nick was integral to bringing this site back because cloud Flaer took the site offline after multiple Matt shooters have posted their manifestos on and they needed a replacement for cloud player. Enter

Nick Limb. He's the one who kind of revives the site and is able to keep it online during you know, the peak of Q and on and to this day. So you know what's interesting to William. I mean, there's so many aspects to this story that are fascinating and you just want to know more about this guy that's behind us this year old But at heart he's an entrepreneur, right who just it sounds like I wanted to start a business. But at the same time he's allowing these

extremists who are getting kicked off. You know, the established programs are platforms to continue to kind of go about their business, right, But but I think with Nick that's kind of the whole point. I mean, he actively speaks out these clients. And you know, Nick tried to clean to us that he has actually thousands of clients, but in reality has a small handful of clients and and they are these kind of fringe right wing web sites.

So well, William, you you actually went to Washington, Vancouver, Washington, which is just outside my hometown of Portland, Oregon, in the fall actually, so before all the events of January went down, Um talk to us about what it was like to to visit him, So you know, he actually you know, he split his time between there and Nevada, where he lives, or Arizona rather where he lives in his Bond's condo. But but the Vonda Tech headquarters in Vancouver he rents out to some of his friends from

high school. Um. You know, when I walked in, I looked on the table, I saw, you know, McDonald's spot fries and and has joints everywhere. In the backyard, there's weightlifting equipment, a shed full of servers that are mining cryptocurrencies and like four bonds. Um. So you know, they nicknamed the House of Dancer dam um. But but it is also the registered headquarters of this company. And um,

you know, I was sort of surprised. You know, I wasn't expecting much, um, but I was still kind of surprised, just the assemblance to a college dorm room. Um, and especially because Nick had initially told me that actually, you know, he has offices and sometimes his employees go to it. Turns out wasn't it his grandparents house though too. That's right according to state records. I look at the house was was gifted by his grandparent. What was his upbringing like?

Because he sort of has this image of or portrayed you've conveyed this image of growing up without money. But he was also posting photos of driving around in exotic luxury cars. There's like a lot of contradictions here. Yes, it's completely you know, Nick in our first interview told me that his kind of early entrepreneur spirit came out of a necessity to support his family. I tried to talk to his family. I tried to talk to his parents, some of his siblings. None of them got back to me.

But you know, when I found Limb's old YouTube channel, I found you know, him driving around into his dad's white Lamborghini. Um. So it wasn't exactly a story of as you told me, you know, creating these businesses in order to quote put food on the table. So well, like, let's spind this forward a little bit. Um. You know, there are there are you know, free speech rights in this country and clearly and Nick Lym has found a

way to um basking them. Um But what what kind of ultimately could how could this come down on him? Because I mean, he is walking such a delicate line here and it just feels like someone is you know, potentially in a position to to you know, elbow him out yet, right, I mean someone could, um, you know, someone a little bit more adept might come in and offer a similar service. But you know something, I was

actually surprised. But I mean the people I did speak to you said that that Lam really did have technical skill and that he was good at doing this. And you know I found tweets from him as an early teen talking about his his interest in the DOS mitigation for example. Um. You know, as far as liability, I don't really think Lim has any because he's not doing anything that's patently illegal, right. Um. You know, he's kind of just posting sites that are themselves stretching the limits

of the First Amendment. Um. But you know, I don't think he's doing anything that would be kind of patently illegal. I'm just thinking that for anybody listening, like and how you wrap up your store. I mean, it's a business opportunity when it comes down to it, you know, And he says, what you know, however you feel about free speech, I mean, this is an avenue where there's demand. Ultimately, William, absolutely, I mean this sort of practice is never going to

go away. There's always gonna be someone that feels like and that's kind of a thing that was interesting to me because we talk a lot about social media censorship and deep platforming. But then you have the question do you have a right to have a website? Even um, and you know the website's being kind of kicked off the internet. It is extremely rare instance, compared to your Facebook account geting fans, right, um, And there's always gonna

be someone like Nix second. Kind of still that board, I think I gotta say I love all the details around his background. Of course, I'm not gonna say, of course he has a crypto mining shed in his backyard. When I saw that detail was like, of course he does. Tim and I went all these different places about kind of like what happens next in his world William, Well, yeah, I mean I guess as crypto prices continue to rise,

that may be good for him. Uh you know, I'm just I'm wondering if he'll leverage his skills into something that's kind of uh yeah, you know, I don't know, let's potently harmful. Stay tuned, is what I like to say. William Turtin, such good stuff cybersecurity reporting, Bloomberg News. Joe Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week, this story the cover story of the new issue of Business Week magazine. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick

Takes Tim Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. Are you are listening to Bottmberg Business Week? Goldman equity traders feel like a record quarter amid the reddit mania who said those old guys don't know how to trade, because they certainly showed up uh this quarter. Jimmy Morgan Chase, their dealmakers helped us here in the firm's best quarter. But uh, investors still concerned about loan demand. We heard Charlie talk about that Wells Fargo beating profit estimates, so struggling on expenses,

but that turnaround story. Investors feeling pretty confident about what Charlie Sharf is doing over there Wells Fargo, as Charlie mentioned, up more than five Anton shoots us with us, back with US President and chief investment officer over at menton Capital Advisers. Back with us on the phone in Florida. Anton, Good to have you here. Uh got so much to talk to. How are you? I'm busy? I know, right, I know you can I can only imagine well let's

go through the names. Goldman investors seemed pretty happy this was all about. It seems like trading for Goldman this quarter? What stood out for you? What do you think we all need to know as investors for Goldman? I think what you need to know it's a pipeline for the investment banking remains incredibly robust and it's been really interesting the controversy it's been caused about spacts and you know,

good or bad. Uh, these companies have gone public and they all have a ton of cash and there's a two year clock kicking on them to spend that cash. So that means if you're an investment banker, you're coming up for ideas to all those hundreds of facts that have done public. And if you've closed a deal and you get the advisory that you've made a bunch of money. So, uh, every one of the investment banks is gonna be very

busy on the M and A front. Uh, just on the spacts and loan let alone all the rest of the economic even if some of the spacts come undone and they just I mean, you are we are you so confident aunt on that they're going to all put that money to work in time. They're gonna try. They're gonna try, and that's the that's the thing, right, I mean, maybe not all of them. Not talking about those investments.

I'm just saying there's a fool of money out there that really wants to find a home, and that will lead to advisory fees for firms like Golden you know my uh my table, just some smaller companies like a like a Cowan or Jeffreys. But you know, they all helped underwrite these things, and they all have relationships and they'll be on either side of the transaction. Right. It's

not just the investive BANKNCY. If you're advising the SPAC, it's the investment thank you see, if you're advising the seller. So there's lots of lots of fees to go around. And I think that the tax law changes, assuming there's changes in capital gains taxes, it's gonna force companies to go, you know what, maybe I should sell now while the capital gains taxes lower? Are their homes? That's going to be a driver? Are their homes for all that money? Though?

Uh well, there's a lot of private companies out there, right, It's not it's not just public companies, but that these SPACs have to buy there will be a city frenzy. And you're absolutely right, and in the skepticism that some of them will not be able to put that money to work, right, not are not not put to work in a feasible manner. Let's talk to A P. Morgan down one point seven percent, but I'm just gonna pull

up the year to date. It's up so far this year, even with today's pull back, some concerns about loan deman. How do you see it for JP Morgan? Well, you know, you've got a tale of a lot of different business lines here. So let's address the consumer side and the credit card I mean, you know, we basically had the Fed and the Treasury pump something like GDP into the

into the economy. You know, consumers have just gotten there their six checks, if they've got a family, they've gotten multiplayers of that, and so they've done lots of things right. They saved it. They paid off the credit card debt, so particular on the credit card side, people paid down debt and you know they'll eventually, you know, hopefully come back and spend it for the economy's sake as well as for the lenders that don't want to lend them

the money. But that's that's a line of business that there's just so much cash slashing around that people are actually paying with the cash for now. So that means it's so in other words, it didn't generate as much for JP Morgan as it has in the past. Well I wouldn't, yeah, right, I mean because the consumers flushed with cash. You know, what do you use a credit card when you don't have the cash? And so those credit card outstandings will probably rise as the year goes on.

Unless there's more more goodies for the consumers, um will eventually start spending their savings, which again another problem with for the big banks of all the banks is the entire system is slush with deposits, so h you know, people are looking at their margins going, oh my gosh. You know, but what are you gonna do with that money? I'll let money on deposit. What are you putting into bonds? Now? You'd rather lend it? That's what banks want to do. So it's the second half of the year story, I

think for the entire industry. As people work down the cash and start to borrow more money, I think earning investments are actually too low for the second half of the year for most of the industry. So given that the quarter was so good, wire investors reacting this way. Well, you know what, if you look at JP Morgan, it's beaten every quarter for the last three quarters pretty nicely, and it's been down every time. This was a record first quarter. Yeah, it was a record first quarter for

well yeah, JP Moore in Gouldment. I mean, you're gonna see see that repeated and um, you know, I think it was a little bit of seldom news and it was a little bit of my otic Oh my gosh, they may don't have long growth in the second half of the year. I mean they've are They told us they're gonna buy seven point two billion dollars worth of their stock in this quarter. Okay, that's pretty good. Um, you know, I I don't think. I I can't. I

can't poke hold that quarter. Now. The interesting thing, and I was talking a lot of traders today about this. Initial traders and you know, the banks get punished when they set aside access reserves. You recall last year I was having the same conversations on oh my gosh, how terrible things are. They're setting these reserves aside, So how can you punish them for setting them aside and then punish them again for going oh my gosh, there and earnings,

so they over earned because they released the reserves. You know, punish them one way or the other. But that's that's whice. Well, that's what I wanted to ask you. What we need to understand because JP Morgan did um release to a larger than expector to reserve release which added to the quarterly windfall. What do we need to understand about that? You just talked about it a little bit. I'm not sure anybody wants to try to understand SCI which is

the accounting treaties put in place here UM. But it's based upon a lot of assumptions and Moody's is probably the number one forecaster they used on those assumptions. So if Moody changes its economic model that has to do with things like unemployment and stimulus UM and GDP. Right, I mean, if you, if you, if you did this report last March, you know it was, oh my gosh, right, set aside a lot of reserve. The same thing in July. Now that report leads very differently Oh, you've got to

release those reserves. Right. It's literally straight accounting. That's a good point. In other words, there's nothing any tricky to it. Uh. And we're running out of time and on, but we really appreciate it and we'll get you back real soon because I always appreciate your input, your fun. By the way, your r and BUM in Financial Services Fund it is up almost so far this year, putting it at LEAs, according to Bloomberg Data, in the eighty nine percentile. Anton,

thank you so much, and on shots. President, Chief investment officervant men and capital advisers. On the phone from Florida. I'm ro Marco journal now, but you let me drive, no, no, no no, d home honey please, I'll do the riding drivel. I want to drive, just drive the questions trying. This is the drive to the globe community. Thanks. We'll drying us down on Bloomberg Radio. All right, just got about

nine minutes left in the trading day. It is time for the drive to the clothes and joining us today once again. Allen Lance, Research director of Lands Global dot Com, President of Allenby Lands and Associates. He's on the phone from Toledo, Ohio. Allen. Good to have you back with Tim and myself. How are you and I feel like interesting market environment. You know, now that we start earnings,

how are you or what are you focusing on? I guess I should ask, well, I think it's been a situation Carol, where um the rotation has been actually a positive. You know, we've seen a stall in in the fangs and they've underperformed, and the Intels and the Ciscos of the world of have perked up. And you know, you look at healthcare and techs underperformed and and one, and you're you're getting you know, strong uh as far as momentum from energy, financials and materials, and and they're picking

up the slack. And I think that's a big positive. You know, you've got you know, the the hot I p o s of Palentteer and Snowflake and him her health down from their eyes. Even DraftKings is down from seventy four to you know, fifty nine and and and I think that that's all bringing some rationality in the market. So it's not going to be all just value and cyclicals and at the expense of uh what used to lead the market. But it's going to be more of a valuation and and and in depth analysis. Uh, you

know that that makes a difference. And that's right in our Bailey Wick Alan. How are you thinking about inflation and potentially hedging for for higher taxes rising interest rates. Yeah, that's a big thing to him that we wrote about the last issue of the Lance Letter. And and I think you know we're going to see higher interest rates. Uh, and and then um, obviously higher taxes and then eventually inflation. I think everybody really has to look at getting some

inflation hedges. Um. I would look at real assets. If you look at in the seventies what happened. And I don't think it's going to be that bad. But once inflation starts, we're in its ugly head. It's it's hard to get rid of it. And and I think it's a situation where you want at least have some of your assets and in actual single family homes and actual natural gas wells. Um. You know, if you can't do that, then um, you know, um, do the next best thing.

But you know, homebuilders have moved up, so we're not you know, buying those are beyond our disciplined by limits, but actually owning the you know physical ass. I think it's going to be important. Another gold has been just discarded here with the um crypto craze and and um, I think it's a situation that um, you know buying uh Barrett gold or a Newmont um you know for Barret or under sixty for Newmont. Uh had a good of it end And and I think that's a nice

hedge that's easy for investors to uh participate in. See. And I think I'm not sure if I heard you clearly Alan coin base was that anywhere in your buying list today? Uh? Well, I think coin coin bases is hot, you know. And and if it's a situation where from its opening price, so you can actually get a little bit of a bargain right now. Yeah, yeah, now it's

that's something we uh bought. Um it's it's something that uh um, I was saying that rather than chasing these you know, the bitcoin and you know and coin base, uh you know that just kept on rising and rising before it finally uh you know came out. Um. You know, we're a long term discipline investors, and I'd rather take that money and and and and and buy some um income producing gold mining, silver mining type companies that are uh, paying strong dividends and and and and doing well and

being ignored. So you didn't know I was sarcastic, right, yeah, exactly. Well, I look, how how are you thinking about I don't want to call it froth. I don't want to use any of these kind of tired terms. But look, we're seeing record after record. We're seeing companies with direct listings with valuations of a hundred billion dollars that are tied to cryptocurrency. Um, how are you thinking about the opportunities to put money to work when we are seeing people

say that the T word top Yeah. I think you get to look at you know, the going back to the basics and fundamental analysis and and doing it the right way, you know. And and it's good that the spacks of you know, lest the little bit of their craze and and uh, you know, we're seeing um as far as the I P. O. S lessening and and that type of thing, we were setting ourselves up for

a bubble. Really if this would have continued. So I think that the rotational correction we had talked about initially, um, you know, is very important to the long term health of the market. But we are definitely setting ourselves up even you know, the tail winds now that are pushing the market higher or like uh the stimulus and and um as as far as uh still low interest rates, I think you know are definitely going to be negatives down the road. Is interest rates uh rise and and

as uh you know, the stimulus. Uh. You get to a point where you know you've got to do something with the deficits, and nobody's talking about that. So hey, listen, we are talking a lot about banks today. What are your thoughts on that. Any opportunities there, any interest, whether it's in the big guys or maybe some of the regional players. I really like banks, you know, start the year. I think that was one of our favorite sectors when we talked, you know, as far as a few months ago.

But really they've moved up Carroll to a point where you know, I wouldn't you know, chase him. One of the only financials that still within our buying territory high teams, low twenties is Rocket Companies. I think they've got a good technological advantage and um, you can still participate. His interest rates aren't going to soar even though they have higher and that's one of the reasons the stock is

is still at a bargain. But really the companies we talked about, you know, six months ago, like the Wells, Fargoes and and the like, you know, have just gone to points where we're would be more likely to take profits in the strength here that then buy them and chase them. How concerned are you about things getting too hot? We talked a little about your your inflation picks, but I mean, are you concerned that we are going to

start seeing real inflation? And we only about thirty seconds left? Yeah, I think I think we will see inflation. I mean we're starting to see it already with you know, food and uh, you know, and I think energy that's one of the reasons. And natural gas is one of our our our big place, you know, in that energy sector. And I think that it's a situation where you definitely

want to position now to the year from now. It's it's gonna be a hot topic, and you don't want to be chasing you what you want to be buying selectively and and and getting your portfolio's positioned appropriately now before you know, prices get out of out of hand. On in front match front all right, we gotta run. Hey Alan, Always good to check in with you b well. Alan Lance, director of Research at LANTS Global. Thanks for

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