Investment Opportunities for Oceans

this morning. I think it was in the New York Times about a baraga storms that's resurrected what was once the largest body of fresh water west of the Mississippi River long time ago. We're talking the ice age, so setting the stage for a disaster to spring and upending agriculture. We know that there is so much going on when

it comes to the Earth's ebbs and flows of water. Yeah, and it's it's just I mean, just the Mississippi River alone, like the supply chain issues that could cause the amount of people whose jobs rely on Jeff Sin will happen right exactly exactly, And it's just it's so critical to watch and there's so much to talk about. So that is why we've got our next guest here to speak with us about the ocean, specifically coming back rejoining us, we've got doctor Deborah Brosnan. She is head of the

international scientific consulting company that bears her name. The firm addresses environmental risks and climate change. She's a marine scientist and environmental risk expert. Joining us on zoom from Antigua, Doctor Brosnin, thank you so much for being here. First of all, just tell us about why you are where you are right now and what you're doing there. So believe it or not, I am out here in Antigua and Barbauda because we're working on exactly the issues you've

been talking about. How do we create more resilient coastlines, how do we create more resilient communities. And what we're doing is we're leveraging nature. Carl reeves break ninety five percent of a wave's energy and they protect the shoreline from storm search but they also keep stand on the beach,

which helps tourism. So we are doing a major ref restoration project with a man called John Paul Gagoria called Ocean Shot, and we're also restoring dunes to provide a barrier, and in doing so, we're providing training and local jobs as well. So that's why I'm out here, because we're advancing those projects and it's very exciting. Yeah, No, Jambal Djoria,

I'm interesting. So what I want to ask you, as someone who has done a fair amount of diving and seen how our coral reefs have really been ruined over the last decade or so, tell us what you're seeing. First of all, like where we are when it comes to coral reefs around the world. We know, we hear the stories about the Great Barrier reef and the bleaching of the reefs. So talk to us about kind of where we are and how we can get our way back.

So I think it's fair to say that we are in a fairly dire situation with coral reefs, and coral reefs have been declining. There's an estimate we've last between thirty and fifty percent of reefs already and that we may lose another thirty percent if we don't intervene. So around the world, and I've seen it in my lifetime too.

When you go on the ocean. One of the areas we're working on only two percent of the stony corals are left on the reefs, so two percent cover and that pattern has been repeated time and time in different parts of the world in the tropics. But what we are seeing, and here's where the good news comes in, the situation is bad enough that people are really understanding that we've got to start taking action. So we're seeing

action in several places. One is in trying to grow resilient calls that are resilient against temperature rise, for instance, and several groups are doing those. We have resilient calls called Beta as a company that's working on them. So people are investing literally investing money in growing resilient calls that can then be outplanted on two weeks. We ourselves are actually building reefs that will provide all of these

services I spoke about. And so we're seeing around the world and interest in restoring coral reefs, but not at a small scale, at the sort of industrial scale that we need to be intervening. So both corals and the restructure itself, we're seeing a lot of effort on that and that is the hopeful sign. So we're starting to see in some places a caral to begin to come back naturally, but a lot of it to a human intervention.

And on that human intervention, can you talk about man made coral reefs and to what extent those can be effectives as kind of a replacement for the real thing. I think we've got to be honest and say we're going to have to help nature, and that means doing manmade coral reefs, and they can be effective. We've studied coral reefs enough to know what's the secret source, and basically that is the structure of the reef itself that

it looks like it kind of looks like Manhattan. You know, there's a penthouse for certain species and the basement for species like lobsters. So when you create a reef, you want to create all of these different all of these different habitats, basically, all of these different layers, and that creates the opportunity for biodiversity to come back. And so

we know how to build those now. We also can model the effect that they have on maintaining sand on the beach, so we know where should we put them, how big should they be, how why should they be. So we do have the science and technology. What we need now is both the investment and the action to do it. How quickly does a reef come back when

you deploy these efforts. It's a slow process, so calls grow relatively slowly, but in the right conditions we can get growth of a few of several inches a year, which is with a lot of calls, that's actually pretty good growth. That's why we need to actually build the reef structure itself, so we give the call a foundation to growth, so we actually get the reef back a lot faster. So within a few years or even immediately undeployment, we can start to see the benefits of reef and

over time we build up the biodiversity. If I can just follow for a moment, I do wonder, with rising sea levels as we build these reefs, is it a case that we're going to have to kind of increasingly be building the reefs closer and closer to what was land but is now new rising sea levels? And can you keep up or can we as a world in

society keep up? Now that's a good question. So I think what we when we think about restoring coral reefs or building reefs, We have to build reefs for the future, not for what the reefs is not for what our conditions are today. But if we get one for sea level rise, where a three foot sea level rise, where do we need those reefs in ten years, in twenty and fifty years time. So we build the reefs, We start the reefs so that they will be the kind

of reefs we need, you know, through climate change. And can I back up like completely here, doctor Brosnan, because I wonder if you can just explain maybe one example of how coral reefs impact our environment in a way that in everyday listener or viewer would be able to understand who may not have had a touch point with coral reefs rest research previously. Yes, how many of your listeners like to walk on the beach? I'll put probably everyone.

And if you're walking on a tropical beach, the sand that you're walking on is sand that was made from a coral reef, from the erosion of the coral itself. Secondly, the reason you can walk on a very beautiful tropical beach is because the reef itself keeps that sand. Not only makes the sand, but then it keeps it on the beach. So every time you go and lie on a tropical beach, say thank you to the coral reef.

No actually said no, it's so perfectly said. So when you talk about a reef to coming back, you said a few years. So is it five years? Is three years? Is a ten years? Yeah, it depends on the longer the reef exists, the better it gets. So if you build the structure of reef and you put the reef out, and if you plant calls on it's a For instance, we have coral nurseries and we're growing calls just like you would growth ball plants in a nursery, and then

we plant those called out on the reef structure. So now our reef is starting to come back quickly because we're getting fish and we have carls. So effectively we have a reef. We have a functional reef. But over two years, five years, ten years, into the next hundred years, the biodiversity on that reef, if it stays healthy, will increase,

the fish life will increase. And so within I mean we're seeing within four months, we've already seen in one of our reef modules, twenty five species of fish have moved on to this reef that we build. Now that's amazing. So and these fish aren't there. The calls are doing fine, so the system is beginning to regenerate. All we had to do was give it the fighting chance and give it a reef in the habitat. One thing I wanted

to ask you, doctor Brosdon. In the notes you shared with our producer, you noted that the ocean economy is worth up to six tillion dollars a year, employs three hundred and fifty million people worldwide, but less than one percent of the ocean's value has been invested in sustainable projects. Express shocking, Yeah, tell us why that is so shocking. Well,

I think it's for two main reasons. One, people look at the oceans as a high risk investment because everything you do in the sea tends to cost more money, and there has been a sense that we're disconnected from the sea. The other is that when people do invest in the oceans, are contribute to the oceans. It's been mostly in philanthropy. But even then, philanthropy investment on the oceans compared to other systems has been incredibly low. So

the oceans literally have been neglected. You know, they cover seventy percent of the planet. If there were a country, they would rank seventh in terms of GDP, and yet we have put so little funding into them. The news is, though, I think that is beginning to change and it's starting to pick up speed. But it's not just about reefs, correct, And I don't mean just because reefs are so important. I get that, But tell us if you know, you had your druthers and you could, you know what else

needs to be done in your view. So I mean, obviously we've talked about this, the investment in nature based solutions in the ocean, which can be mangroves, and our mangroves supquests for four times more carbon than even tropical rainforests, so they have a climate value as well as the fisheries value. So investing in nature returns dividends for the planet but also for communities in terms of fisheries and jobs.

So investing in nature is at first. But the other place we can start to look at is renewable energy. Our oceans can really both in terms of offshore winds, which is a very big area people are looking in right now. Food security basically seaweed, seaweed based food supplies. I think fiddle as Fish got about thirty four million in funding just recently, so food supply, energy, provency questration.

All of these areas are right for investment. And the other is transportation, and we think about it, most of our goods are transported by the sea and associated with transportation, shipping releases eighteen percent of pollutants. So what we're beginning to see is a lot of companies and a lot of investors thinking about other ways to create more sustainable shipping, to have more like electric vehicles. General Motors is one

case in point. They invested one hundred and fifty million to acquire a mistake in a company called Pure Watercraft that makes electric engines for boats. So really, you know, everywhere we look, whether it's energy, whether it's food, whether it's nature itself, whether it's jobs the ocean. It's probably one of the most investable systems resources that we can

look at. But the upfront cost is pretty high for investors, and that's not something investors often relish the opportunity for if they don't have a strong sense of what their return can be. But you say that the concept of the ROI for investors is just not understood. What would you say is the biggest thing that investors are messing

up in that calculation. I think investors are often looking for what I would call a traditional return on investment, are looking for a quick in and out, and often with either renewable energy or in the ocean, that investment tends to take longer. Where that is changing is in the field of what's known as impact investment. So impact investment investors are looking at getting a return on investment, a financial return on investment, but also a quantifiable other return,

which could be carbon sequestration as well. So we're seeing investors look at they always want a financial return, but also seeing if there's an added value which balances out the financial return. So I think looking at the investment a little bit differently. Z Risking is really important for investors, and we're beginning to see that being done in two ways.

One is this partnership, So the un Capital Fund, for instance, is partnering with private sector and for investors that the risks because the un Capital Fund will often be somewhat film through big or provide funding that gets investors over the hump of basically de risking the initial stages. So we're seeing some of that, and oddly enough, if you

think about Biden's Inflation Reduction Act. He's put three hundred and sixty nine billion into climate tech, and some of that obviously is for the ocean and also renewable energies. That alone, that incentive, that government incentive, that government policy, if you like, has been enough to make a lot of industries think about investing in these kind of climate checks, including the ocean. We see it in the oil industry.

They're suddenly taking it seriously. The risks are not as great. Really, do you feel like there's definitely a difference, you know, I think about the stories with microplastics and I think, my gosh, is it just too late that it's just so insidious? Like how do you get that out of the system. But now do you feel like the tone, the tenor not only the talk, but the actual investments and actions have shown that people understand we've got to take care of the oceans. Yes, I see it changing,

and I see it changing rapidly. And where I see it changing is it's not just in the environmental community. I see it changing in the investment community that are looking at the oceans obviously to the lens of investment, but as they start to invest, they're also really aware that the healthy ocean means healthy humans. It means they're

children are healthier. So the oceans are almost leading the way in this investment that provides return but also gets thinking about the kind of planet we want and the kind of future we want to leave our kids. I see that happening, and no one's giving up on the money. What would you say is the single biggest mistake that you see consumers make who mean well and want to protect our oceans, but might be a misunderstanding about what we can do to make a difference. And we have

about forty seconds here. I think the biggest mistake is thinking you can do nothing. A lot of consumers don't do anything because the problem looks so big, the oceans is so big. The biggest mistake is to do nothing. The best thing you can do is do something. Take a step. Whether it's not using straws, whether it's not using plastic. Every everything you do makes a difference and it all adds up sunscreen, like all these different things.

You know so much to think about and so appreciated and good luck with your work, doctor Deborah Bronson, thank you so much for coming back with us. She's head of Deborah Brosen and associates marine scientists. As we said earlier, environmental risk expert joining us from Antigo where they're working on restoring the reefs. But you do think about it, like, if we just don't get this under control, I know,

then what we have to we have to do. I mean, it is it is the biggest issue I think, you know, it is the thing that outweighs all the other things because if we're not here, what are we going to do? Exact exactly