Impact of COVID-19 on Nursing

Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, ol Bloomberg dot com. You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. Incredible Health is a company that connects hospitals with nurses and other healthcare workers. So let's talk about what our next guest has seen through the pandemic and what the future may look like to protect vital healthcare workers. Dr Iman Abusaid is CEO and

co founder at Incredible Health. She joins us on the phone from San Francisco. Dr abus Aid, nice to have you here with Jason and myself. So tell us a little bit about what you have seen through the pandemic and kind of where we are right now. Yeah, thanks for having me. Um. So, what we've seen is we did a pretty in depth study of nurses throughout April over fo nurses and we also analyze the data in

our database and what we're realizing. What we're seeing is that nurses are having a very difficult time with this pandemic, and the preexisting issues that already existed in this industry like staffing, shortages, burnout, and stress are continuing to happen. Um over to only two percent of nurses have said that their facility was very prepared to deal with COVID nineteen and so knowing this businesses as well as you do, both the sort of the the practice and the logistics

of it, as well as the economics of it. Uh, doctor, I was like, how did this happen? Was it just a matter of unpreparedness? Was it just this the size and scope of it? What do you owe it to? I think it was both the shock. It was a shock to the health system, it really was. And uh, you know, when when of nurses are saying that they don't have the adequate personal protective equipment to practice safely, you know that's that just shows a lack of preparedness

and the shock to the system. Now, I know that hospital executives are scrambling to fix this UM, but it's still a problem. So you're saying it's still a problem.

It's still a problem. So where is the breakdown? I mean, you understand this world, and and you know, Jason and I've had a lot of conversations trying to understand, you know, the supply chain, and everybody talked about shortages, and we had federal officials saying we're doing everything we you know, we're getting all the equipment everybody needs, and yet there doesn't seem to be the case. What happened. Was it a case that we needed a federal initiative UM and

didn't get it. Yeah, I mean I think all around, whether it was the hospital industry itself or government, it was just a lack of preparedness is quite shocking here. And it wasn't just about this is not just about personal protective equipment that's lacking. I mean even the section control protocols that hospitals needed to put into place that we're not clear guidelines coming from the CDC. So each hospital had to scramble to put their infection control protocols

in place. You know, it's interesting, Dr Z. You know, we we've also talked a lot to you know, as Carol mentioned sort of the heads of hospital systems and sort of how it's going to be for consumers of healthcare and how we may interact with doctors and and whatnot. Differently going forward. How's it going to change the nursing business? I mean, you have a you have an MBA from Wharton, You've been involved in startups, you worked at McKenzie like,

you understand the business side of this really well. How does the business of nursing change going forward? Okay, so even before the pandemic, there was a massive nursing shortage. Our our health system needed another There will be we will be one million nurses shorts by. It is one of the biggest skilled labor shortages we have in this country. This pandemic is expected to make it even worse because our demand for healthcare as a country continues to go up.

Now we don't see that changing after the pandemic either. This is generally a group of workers has underappreciated, overworked, and there are simply not enough of them. And so we'll need to continue doing whatever we can to increase the number of nurses in this country. What does an average nurse? I hate that saying an average nurse, But what does a nurse make today? So the national averages around eighty thousand and ninety thousand dollars for a hospital nurse.

In states like California, it's a bit higher, like a hundred and ten or a hunder twenty dollars average. So why aren't people going into nursing Um? Number one, it's a very tough profession and it's it's a challenging job. Um. The second is that nursing schools don't necessarily have the capacity to train more nurses. There are always huge weight lists for entering nursing school and they're still challenging to get in. Also, the training of nurses is not is inadequate.

Even after nursing school, getting appropriately trained in a specific specialty has a lot of limitations because it's very expensive to train in nurse. And so you're obviously in the business of technology and using technology to maybe help eliminate some of these bottlenecks. How does it work, how does it work going forward? And how can technology help us here. Yeah, So in our case for incredible help, we work with over two hundred hospitals across the country, including top academic

medical centers like Stanford and Cedar Sinai. And what we've done is, really we've automated entire processes of hiring and screening using software. So we've automated the screening of the nurses, we've automated the custom matching to specific employers that meet their needs. Um, and the end result is hiring happening in less than thirty days instead of it taking ninety days, which is the national average to fill a nurse position today. Wow. So how how much of an impact is that? Making

only have about forty seconds left here? Yeah, So what we've already seen, I mean, um, it's in what we've seen in the survey is that for the emergency department and intensive care and nurses, it's they're higher getting hired even faster in nineteen days these days because of the pandemic. And so we see this acceleration continuing to happen and technology and hiring continue to be adopted across health systems

in this country. Really some great insight, Yeah, really good, really good, And I think under reported candidly the shortage that we're talking about, great work. We really appreciate it. Dr Iman I was eight is co founder and CEO of Incredible Health, joining us on the phone from San Francisco. Fascinating background she has working at Mackenzie and n b A and has worked for a COASTLA backed startup as well. Really interesting, Like puls together, it comes at it from

so many different perspectives, right, so fascinating. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. So, Jason Kelly, don't you remember that bloom Bloomberg Business Week cover. I think it was last October. Everything is private equity right now. I think you had some some involvement in that. I did. I do remember that. I remember it quite well. It turns out it was fairly pression and unbelievably powerful and important story in the

magazine this week. Heather pearl Berg wrote it. Max Chafkin edited it. He is the features editor, of course of Bloomberg Business Week. Here to tell us all about it. On the phone from Queen's mc hammer. What's going on, Hey there, how's it going? This is a big story. This is it's a long read, um and pretty intense. Tell us what Heather and you guys found when it comes to private equity and the medical business. So as you said, you know, pe private equity has you know,

sort of been all over our economy. And of course, the healthcare industry is you know, one of the biggest or maybe the biggest um industry in the US, and so so probably woudn't surprise you that private equity investors are are in there. Um. What Heather did is she looked at a specific field, dermatology. Um. It's it's it's definitely not the only field where there's a lot of

activity here, but it's one where where it's sort of everywhere. Uh. Some people think as many as ten percent of the dermatologists in America work for a private equity firm or work for a company that's backed by a private equity firm. And what's interesting, you know, kind of when you get into it, you start to see some of the ways

that our healthcare system um isn't working particularly well. And you know, one thing, one of the stories we've seen and Heather gets into this in the in the piece, but one of the stories we've we've seen with the coronavirus is you have these e R doctors who are being UM either laid off or furloughed at a time when everybody in America is focused on healthcare. You know, you think watching the news that this would be a great time to be in healthcare. But it's it's it's

of course a terrible time. And it's because of the way these companies are structured. They are you know, they're stretching away where they need past that and growing really fast. A lot of them are very leverage. And when you start not having um electric procedures, when when demand for the services goes down, that that's when things start to break down. And and and there are some of these kind of UM stories that really seemed pretty terrible. Well,

and it's interesting. So you know these dermatologists, right, dermatology practices, I mean they were not deemed essential correct through the shutdown. Yeah, no, it's it's all very much gray area and and stayed in local laws. They're all they're all sorts of differences. Um. But but the lead anecdote in the story, which is very memorable, is of one of the bigger chains in

the country. It's it's a large dermatology chain in current California, which you know, right at the height of the crisis, was basically calling people up and telling them to keep

their botox appointments, among other things. And and UM. Heather listened in on a sort of assume conference that was held for the industry, where where the CEO of the company UM sort of explained himself saying, at you know, this is just like a grocery store where if they're selling flour and meat, it's not like they're gonna stop selling candy. And so the analogy would be, like, you know,

operating botox is like UM selling candy. And you know that obviously makes sense maybe from a business point of view, it's it's these these companies definitely need to keep revenue if they want to survive. But but of course, many doctors, and this is a conversation that's going on everywhere I can talk to doctors feel very uncomfortable with this. They feel like they are being asked between sort of profits

and UM traditional medical ethics. Well, and I think that's a really important point Max that Heather dives into pretty deeply into the story, which is, you know, there are some workarounds, and private equity is about nothing if not work arounds in terms of able to being able to

structure deals in certain ways. Mean, this is a business, the health care business that the American Medical Association, I believe essentially says, listen, this isn't just your regularly your regular old sort of like P and L that you're managing here. And yet they sort of found a way through these uh managed companies to to basically buy these

things up. And they're only sort of getting bigger, right Yeah, they're they're only getting bigger, and and they probably continue to get bigger because because the economy is so bad right now and these practices are are failing um or close to failure, and you know, big private equity firm comes in with a lot of money. You know that's going to look perhaps more attractive than it did before.

I think we should say, and it's it's probably an important point that they're not everything about this industry is bad. I mean they are, and what they what they'll say when you talk to them, is that they are expanding access for people. You know, one one upside of growth is that is that you know, these practices are fanning out.

It's it's potentially you know, more convenient for patients. Um. Also, you know a lot of people have talked about how how hard it is to be a doctor in America, and and you know, helping these doctors get paid a little bit more money. You know that all sounds like

a good thing. The problem is when you get these um sort of private equity roll ups where they're they've already cut a lot of costs and then all of a sudden they try to do like another roll up, you know, taking two uh two sort of large groups of merging them together, and you basically, you know, according to the sources, to talk to lots and lots of doctors. You know, that's where you start running into problems. Well, and I love there's a quote and they're about serving

two masters. You can't serve patients and investors. So it gets a little tricky and complicated. It's a great read, and as Jason mentioned, there's a lot of information here, so highly recommend everybody check it out in the magazine. Max Chafkin, features editor at Business Week, joining us on the phones from Queens, New York. Thanks Max, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so let's get back to

the world of economics. It's where we started the show at the top of two, with the FED releasing the minutes from its latest meeting, and those are must reads at this point as we try and discern what happens next, especially when it comes to monetary policy in this crisis. Let's break it down with our team, Alex Harris Pond. They are the Long Island Ladies, the Long Island Ladies, Guys, Queens Queen, the Queen's Queens, the Long Island Queens Queen.

All right, we're gonna do that. Alex Harris Fond, reporter for Bloomberg. She's on the phone from my island City, Queens, Lanish electrovic and yours economist, Bloomberg Economic. She's on the same island, the Island of Long So, Elena, I want to start with you. What what you here? What do you see in those minutes today? What's the most important thing we need to take away? It's it's pretty close actually in terms of geography. But yeah, for the for

the minute, two things really struck me. So first is about the state of the economy and how much policymakers are concerned about the medium outlook. So this struck us when the statement was released already three weeks ago. But the minutes provide a lot of detail about policymakers concerns about long term unemployment. So if people lose jobs and stay away from work for quite a long time, they

will lose skills. So they already are talking about this in the minutes and about how much uncertainty there is. UH they're about future economic outlook, So that's one thing, and another thing is um UH what the policy tools discussion. So policymakers obviously reiterated the message that we heard from them in recent public remarks. The minutes noted that they are committed to using its full range of tools to

support economic growth. So that includes que policies, that includes lending programs, and they and ready to adjust UH and adapt those existing facilities to better tailor them to business needs. So what was really interesting in this set of minutes is how they would like to reinforce forward guidance. This is a very powerful tool that said UH used in

the past. They used it extensively during the financial crisis, and they would like to either introduce some sort of outcome based approach when they tie uh, the path for policy rates to some sort of macroeconomic variables such as the unemployment rate, and or they can do date based approach when they just say, okay, we're gonna keep the rates slow until some future date in time. So they

used both approaches back in the financial crisis. You know, some of them were quite successful, some of them were probably not. Uh So it's not very clear that you know, these are the ideal tools, but there's a lot of discussion among policymakers about how to reinforce the message, so to say, open mouth operations from the fifth Alright, so let's bring in Alex Harris. And I'm curious if you're more interested in the FED or that twenty year bond auction.

I mean, it seems like inventors are very happy to buy up anything that the US government puts out there, whether it's twenty years or thirty years. Uh, you know, real quick on the twenty year if you know, obviously this is the first twenty year auction we've seen in thirty four years, so it's hard to draw any sort of comparison. But you know, when the Treasury was debating about you know, fifty or a hundred year bond, and you know, dealers and other people in the community, in

the financial community kept saying, no, no, twenty year. You know this this is a good time that you're going to get that interest from the pension them, from the life insurers. Um. In terms of the minutes, you know, some of it is you know, Elena mentioned uh policy, you know, it's full range of policy tools. But I think we need to just quickly mentioned what they did

not talk about was negative interest rates. So I'm hoping, and I think a lot of people in the financial space are hoping that this puts the negative rates discussion to bed. You know, FED funds futures implied rates were back in positive territories. So I think people are like, okay, debts over so. So the fact that there was no mention of it, you know, I think it was key. You know, there was also a brief mention of yield curve control, which is where they would cap rates at

some point on the curve at a certain level. Um. You know, and and someone had sent me some commentary and you know, this could be a way the FED could be seen as sort of expanding committing to an unlimited expansion of its portfolio. Um, you know if they if they do end up going that route and I don't they put that that to bed yet. So so there's something to it there and something to be mindful of. We listened to you know, members of the f MC

come out and speak, you know. And then the other thing is at least for the friend and those those funding market wants. Um. You know, the SILMA manager Lowly Logan, laid out the rationale for why they didn't feel the need to move that interest in excess reserves rate higher, and participants were sort of split during the last meeting, you know, as to whether or not they were going to do it, and it seems like, um, they're like, yeah, we don't, we don't feel a need to. We're okay here.

But you know, one of the things if I could ask them anything right now in relations in regards to that age, okay, well, if you don't feel like you do, feel like the bottom of the range is pretty well protected. And why did you make them move higher? You know,

why did you make the tweek in January? Because something was not necessarily adding up for me and I would be curious to know more about you know, why January warranted such a move right now with rates of the zero lower bounded doesn't All right, guys, listen, Thank you so much. Really appreciate you weighing in on some of the day's news, including those Fed minutes. Yolanda Slet. You have a senior US economist at Bloomberg Economics on the phone from Long Island, New York, along with Alex Harris

also weighing in on that twenty year bond auction. Bond reporter at Bloomberg News from Long Island City, Queens. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. So, Jason, it was pretty hard to find an investment haven, as we know, as the financial markets were selling off right initially because of the virus.

And yet Emily Chason writes and our weekly Bloomberg Green Segment that while not many s G fund managers their mission was necessarily to protect investors from a global pandemic, it turns out maybe a lot of their funds did. So let's get into it. In our Bloomberg Green Segment, Emily is sustainability editor at Bloomberg New She joins us once again on the phone in New York. So, Emily, tell us a little bit of about this story this week.

We we often talk about E s G funds and their mission, and I feel like over the last decade or so, we know that you can kind of have an E s G mission and also get performance. But it sounds like you found out that even during this market downturn caused by the virus, that some of these

E s G funds actually outperformed maybe some other investments. Yeah. Well, so it's interesting because E s G portfolio managers for years, if you talked to them, they say, you know, there was a market downturn in that quarter, and we actually outperformed in it. So they've actually sort of bet on resilient companies even though they were kind of planning for a climate crisis or finding, you know, managers they thought were good and adaptable, using E s G sports as

a proxerty for that. They turned out that they had also sort of bet for this global pandemic. So when you look at UM portfolios and indexes overall. Black Rocks did a really interesting study this week where it found that UM in the COVID nineteen crisis, E s G indexes outperformed. And if you look like eighteen when there were market downturns, like of E s G in bexes

that performed. So there seems to be a pattern here, right, And yet Emily, you know there's not a lot of available inventory out there for the regular old four oh one K investor to really get into these investments. Why, well, this is what you've sort of damaged it. This week in our screen newsletter was why the d S funds that are providing this downside protection are missing from your

four oh one k fund? And it's a little complicated. Um, Bloomberg does have an E s G fund in it's four one k, but very few companies have done it because they're worried that they're compromising returns for that. But now now that's not really the case anymore. If you

look at you know, how this performed. And this is the first big test for a lot of the S funds that only about a s G funds actually have a five year track record UM that are large G s G funds, So UM, this is the first big test, and they seem to be providing some sort of economic benefits. So I think people are going to wonder why they're

not in there for own plans. It's a great question, right, But wasn't I felt like for a time, you know, especially when E s G funds were kind of newer on the on the environment or the investment um you know, landscape, that they didn't always perform as well. But we've seen things change, especially as more companies, you know, your big companies, your sp companies have really kind of embraced E s

G ways. Yeah, there's kind of been a transition from socially responsible investing of the days of yore that it was just kind of finding companies that they didn't think we're bad and taking them out of the portfolio, like tobacco or hall weapons. Right. But now E s G is much more focused on risk management, which is a good downside protection strategy, and then also they're more focused on using all this information in those new e SC

data to find opportunities. So a lot of U s G funds are much more heavily exposed to tech and huscare, which has actually outperformed in this latest crisis, and they're under exposed to fassis fuel which you know, we thought oil go to zero, so that was a good move. And Emily, we're always fascinated between you know, some of the connective tissue in terms of what types of investors are drawn to these types of investments. Uh, Millennials were

always concerned about them. You know, I have a millennial co host and Carol, and you know I worry about her um, you know, not being exposed as much too for one case. You know, these are the things I worry about. But in all seriousness, like, millennials not so much into retirement savings historically, right, Yeah, I'm I'm practically a millennial, but they millennials are you really are a millennial.

You're an actual millennial. But so millennials, a lot of them graduated and like into the recession of two thousand and eight, a lot of them are you know, under invested in their form. Okay, I haven't had a lot of money to say, have a lot of debt, you know, so, but millennials who do have money, a huge portion of

it is what's actually in their forum. Okay, that's a huge portion of their household investible income are really excited about e s G. They would really like to invest in it UM, but they don't have that option in the Forum one K, which is the biggest pool of

assets that's available to them for investment in this way. Emily, I do wonder if you wonder about this as well, that because you know of what we're going through right now, this health pandemic, and we're talking a lot about some of the big problems that are facing the global society, whether it's climate change or whether it's future pandemics, whether more in more companies kind of embrace E s G ways and they become you know that there will be

more offerings for E s G funds. I wonder if we're going to see that kind of on the other side of this virus. Just got about forty five seconds here. Yeah, there's been a ton of inflows actually into E s G funds, so I wouldn't be surprised that at all. And there's been a ton of news coverage, a lot of interest in the space. All Right, we're gonna leave it there. Thank you so much. Good to catch up with you. Emily Chasen, Sustainability at editor at Bloomberg, part

of the Green Team, The Bloomberg Green Team. UH timely launch of that earlier this year, because I do think we are to your point here, We're thinking about this much more holistically. We're thinking about our world as you like to say, um in all in all facets in many ways, right, and just some of the big problems.

And you do wonder you know we we just talked about was it the bite yesterday about Unlearn A bunch of other companies that are saying, come on, we've got to work together public private partnerships to tackle some of these inequalities that are in our world. Check out all of their work at Bloomberg dot com, slash Green Broom a journal. Yeah but you let me drive? Oh no, no, no, no please, I want to drive all Just drive baby, the questions drying job. This is the drive to the globe.

Give me thanks, we'll drying us on Bloomberg Radio. It is time for the drive to the close back with us as Joanna Barton, she is co director of Growth Equities at Eaton Vance, and she joins us on the phone from Boston, and I'm nice to have you here with us. How's it going. It's going well, it's there's some sun outside. I'm seeing a lot more green on my screen. Life is good. Life is good. You know.

I want to ask you something because one of the big stories that Jason I've been talking about and then we'll get into because we love to be able to talk stocks with you, but we're hearing a lot of financial firms, UM, whether it's JP Morgan and other city group you know, thinking about moving a lot of folks out to the suburbs. And I'm just curious what's the

talk in Boston about. Because of the virus UM and nervousness about commuting to big cities, you know that companies are rethinking where their offices are, and I'm just curious what you're hearing about, UH in Boston and particularly maybe among the financial sector. Well, a majority of our employees are obviously working from home right now. There isn't any talk of having alternative location outside of Boston right now.

But I think UM, many of those conversations I've certainly taken place, and perhaps the answer is UM, not one or the other, but maybe a hybrid of UM or maybe a sort of a three case scenario where you still have headquarters that are central for your investors, for your clients corporate access, but also have the flexibility of

working from home and having alternative sort of satellite offices. So, um, I think many of these options are on the table and I'm sure being discussed as to speak and Jana, as an investor, as you look at companies, many of which I think you're invested in and they sort of work through this, does it change like do you have to model differently? I mean, or is it just sort of one of the sort of softer factors that you

work in. I mean, I do wonder how we think about because you guys do I'm sure sort of intensive work on all of your portfolio, Like do you think about companies differently in terms of, you know, how aggressive they are on this, what their cost structures end up being, How radical does it need to be in for it to enter into your analysis here. Oh, that's a great question. I think depending on the industry, the real estate cost

is a different input, um. So for retailers obviously it's a very different input than for someone um like an Amazon or Google. Right, So I think it's more of a question of the overall cost structure and firms that do have the flexibility and variable cost structure because of the model of their own business and that agility that's a long term tail wind. So the more flexibility you have in your model, um better it is for you.

And I think that's part of the reason why the profitability stream of companies within tech and perhaps the next gen secular winners is so much more attractive because the sort of embedded costs a less of an overhang on them. So what do you make of where we are in the markets? And I'm just curious what what if any buying have you been either suggesting or looking at right now, especially since you know we're you know, seeing a little

bit of a rally again, uh this week. But it depends on the week, you know, in terms of the tone of the market. So where do you think we are? And I'm curious about anything you might have been buying into right now. It's interesting because I was looking at

my notes. The last time you and I spoke was kind of in the midst of the most severe drawdown that we saw in the marketplace, and we were doing a ton of buying then, which felt very uncomfortable, and I remember we had a lot of conversations about that. But the reason why I bring that up is because this unevenness that we're seeing both in terms of reopening for business and different states doing their own thing. That's

the same thing we're seeing in the marketplace. So while on the surface you see the market, albeit it's still down here today, the average company is underperforming a cap weighted index almost two times. As I look at the market here, not inclusive of the rally we had today, we have SMB down just shy of nine percent, but

the average stock is down seventeen percent. And more importantly, when you look at specific sectors like consumer discretion and you've got one outlier, which is Amazon, up over thirty percent, without which that sector would be down four Again, the reason why I'm providing this context is on the surface that looks like there's a lot of green, but not everything has recovered to the extent that we might believe it has. So like specialty retail, area of the market

that was bruised during the downturn is still recovering. So that's an area where we're interested in an unnimbling here and there um and help Gere's also an area that has been in the headlines where biotech and farma has done really well, but other companies like met Devices and life sciences have been left behind. So that's also an

area where we're sort of playing the laggards. And so what do you look for in this specialty retailer at this point, Yanna, because I feel like we are starting to see some very distinct winners and losers, or we were before the pandemic set in. And I wonder how that, how this experience or sort of looking at who's done what and how everybody has handled this changes your opinion or do you look at different things? How does the

pandemic change that calculus? Well, um, apologies for my dog there by the way, Um, I've had my two year old daughter scream on air, so that don't know. Apologies, it's good, it's good. I think home improvement is an area that's obviously topical because we had reports today of lows and yesterday of home depot and all of us is stuck at home. I don't know about you, but

I'm doing a ton of nesting. So when you see the results from loads that are coming in where you're not only seeing positive comps, but double digit comps that they haven't seen since I think back in two thousand seven, I think there's some durability to that. Right, So there's some company specific things that they're doing in terms of their constructor and margin improvements, but also sort of do

it yourself is um. You know, buyers coming back and we're doing a lot more buying for outdoor spaces and such. So UM again, home Deepot versus Lows we have a position and Lows because it's less expensive than home Depot and has lagged Home Deeper year to do. UM. So that's a company specific story. We're also intrigued by the off price retailers as well. UM. Again, all of those stores are closed. UM. I'm certainly waiting for the opening. I can't tell you how much, but that story is

not going away. And if anything, I think those guys will have the upper hand in terms of the inventory that will be stuck in the chee in US and will wait to be moved. So tjs of the world and others I think will be just fine because they have the liquidity, the scale, and the infrastructure. So there are just two examples of what is intriguing to us. But they'll be doing it differently, right, They're going to have to be with social distancing and so on. Right,

I assume it's going to be a little trickier going back. Absolutely, I think the point that you're bringing up is an important one, which is we really need to focus on multi channel, right retailer meaning you know, and maybe have showcase and demonstrated the strength you can have from having the digital presence. So ordering online is picking up at a curbside pick and whatever it is. So yeah, we gotta run, but you're absolutely right, the multi channel is

going to be important. Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, south Cloud, Blueberg dot com, or wherever you get your podcasts, And of course you can always listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News