Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Well, the debate over remote work seems to be back, at least I don't know. We kind of keep hearing some things. It could be here for years to come.
At least that's the subway was empty this morning for me.
I see it certainly well.
And this is the middle of summer ninety week, going to work when it's really hot in New York City. I don't know if that's what it is.
I don't know.
He said a funny week.
Last week was a funny week. I thought last week was until September?
Is funny until September Bloomberg Actually earlier this year, they pointed out, though, that we would kind of continue to have this debate. This was after President Trump added fuel to the remote work fire when he called federal workers back to the office full time. He might remember that, and that followed similar moves by JP Morgan and Amazon, And at the time it did renew some of the tensions between those in favor of in person work and the cohort that been working remotely. Or with a highat
hybrid arrangement since the pandemic. So curious to see what our next guest has to say because he knows something. You know, it's actually a lot about this.
Mark Dixon is CEO of International Workplace Group. It's the Flexible office company that owns the Regis brand. Mark. What are we all doing? Because Carol and I we never stopped coming in.
A little bit.
I did a little bit.
You were from home a little bit. We were said, we were told to you were told to go home. I started in the fall of twenty twenty and came right in, Yeah, you were. What is the reality from your vantage point regarding work from home hybrid?
Look at this isn't basically the sort of debate about work from home hybrid is sort of not missing the whole point of what's going on. So what's going out on is the workplace is changing into a platform where companies who are the customers, they're the ones paying for the workplace. Not all of them, but a lot of them want to have much more flexibility, in particular in these volatile times.
You know, AI, what's he going to do to blah blah blah.
Hard to predict the future hard to go into permanent space. So companies want flexibility. They want it off the ban sheet, not on the balance sheet. They want op x, not capex, and they want to be able to find workers anywhere in the country. And that is what is happening. It's a strong move by corporate America, and it's a worldwide move where the real estate becomes less of something about leases and much more about people using a platform flexibly.
So waat, so help me understand. So a lot more hybrid going on, even though we've got some big, well known companies saying it back to work, I mean give us, give us.
Yeah, it's not about back to work. This is sort of a trivialization back to the office.
Excuse me, yeah, yeah.
Back to the office and backs of work.
We're providing offices throughout the United States two thousand buildings by the end of this year, so pretty much anywhere.
You want to work, you can go locally and work.
This is about people not wanting workers, not wanting a waste two hours a day getting to and from an inconvenient office. This is about technology allowing sort of platform work to be a reality. So look, we're in the office business So we have one point four million offices worldwide today, and so we're very much in the office business. But we're in the office business near where people live and in New York City. You know, this isn't about you know, the only work he's done in the United
States in New York City or Chicago. It's done all over the country. So this is about allowing people to work productively. They can do it at home, but it's quite difficult for most jobs, some jobs to home. A lot of people need an office to be productive, and it just doesn't have to be miles away.
That's all.
For a period of time after the pandemic, when you thought about the relationship between workers and managers or workers and companies, the workers had the cards or had the leverage because it was tough to find employees. That that relationship may have shifted in recent years as the labor market has softened a little bit, as that isn't as tight as it was before. Who do you view right now as having the leverage?
Look, companies always have leverage because they're the ones paying the salaries, they're the ones paying the bills. So what's driving the change is it's much it's a much lower cost to support someone near where they live than to get them to come to wherever you are. So, you know, companies, this been driven by companies, not by the workers, just
to be clear. So companies want to save cost in particular today, and they absolutely want flexibility with you know, you have to say, probably many of the things you're talking about.
It's a volatile world.
It's harder to predict what the next few years are going to look like alone trying to commit to five or ten years. Hence, so they want flexibility, they want to minimize capital investment, and that's what's driving It's not sort of this idea that somehow workers have got leverage. You know, if you ask workers, a lot of them will say, yeah, look i'd love to work near to home if i can. Some will say yeah, I'd like to work at home. But all of them want to be productive.
You know.
And it's not a sort of this sort of very polarized argument where it's a pull and push. It's a general push by corporations to have a much more effective, lower cost, more practical working in part for their people.
So Mark, when it comes to the real estate model, the commercial the office real estate model, is it going to be then in your view from what you are seeing your vantage point, that it's more about not company x y Z building this massive headquarters and then maybe you know, satellite offices around the country. It's more about maybe having a headquarters somewhere. But then they're more likely
to rent space from you. Is that increasingly what you're seeing, and so there will still be demand for office space, but you will be someone who owns more of it than maybe company XYZ.
We don't own any of it, just to be clear, so don't no, we don't. We operate it for landlords. So landlords also can see the future. It's a technology distorted future where you can work from anywhere we all can. And so you know, the demand has changed, you know,
that's that's the reality. So we work for building owners to convert their buildings and put them on our platform to make them available for people and companies that want to buy what they need when they need it, for the time they need it with you know, a simple you know, half a page agreement. Not there's no leases. Okay, So it's a modern it's the modern picture of real.
Estate like ubrization right of office space.
Almost yeah, absolutely, so you have a good picture. We only have about thirty seconds left. You have a really good picture of demand for this stuff, which I think we can use as a source of data on the economy, at least anecdotal. How would you describe demand right now?
Very strong.
I mean, look, we're growing. We're adding one thousand buildings a year. We expect it will be fifty percent more next year.
You know.
That's that's that's demand for you. And you look that revenue birth so on. That's that's that's how you can see it.
Interesting stuff always always, Mark Dixon, thank you so much, CEO of International Workplace Group. By the way, there are ADRs that trade in the US. It's a three billion dollar market cap. They're up about forty five percent year to date. You take a look at the stock that trades on the London stock has changed up about thirty five percent year to date. So investors definitely interested.