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You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio.
One of the things that we did notice was Apollo Global Management Shares Trading hire today. This is after the company posted record annual earnings beat Wall Street estimates as higher interest rates powered growth at the credit focused alternative asset manager.
Apollo, though, took a more muted tone than some of its peers on the prospect for private equity exits. Principal investing income from selling private equity assets will fall below the multi year average target of one dollar per share in twenty twenty four. That's according to CFO Martin Kelly, who said that on the earnings.
Call, all right, one company we wanted to zoom at though for an updead in all things private equity, and for that return to Antoindrie, founder and chairman of Tiago. It's a placement agent best known for assisting private equity firms with fundraising, and since nineteen ninety two, the company has raised and advised clients and more than fifty billion dollars in capital. We're getting that from its website, but we've got the man here in studio here in our
Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio, Antwine. Nice to have you here.
How are you?
Let's start big and broad though. How does the environment look this year when it comes to private equity?
It's we are going back to reality. Right after Q zero interest rates, etcetera, etcetera, We're going back to flight to quality. Mostly it's obviously tougher out there. It's tougher for exits, as you've been saying. It's also tougher on the investment side because credit is lacking. So we are, I think, going to what I was what private equity was in the early nineties, right, adding value to businesses and being smart about.
Investing discrete discretionary of course.
Yeah, So does private equity thrive in an environment like that?
Not all of it. Some of it was just you know, riding the wave, I guess. And these guys are in trouble because things are now tougher for those who know their way within the difficult environments. It's obviously great times. They can buy great assets at cheaper prices, they can have less competition, and they can think about you know, great growth bands.
How are you thinking about using leverage when it comes to buyouts right now, just because interest rates are so much higher.
I think it's it's obviously part of the game, you know, leverage. It can leverage, can can make people rich. It can also hurt or kill. I think you have to use it with a lot of you know, skill, and that's what most of these guys are doing right now.
What do you make of though, kind of it's all about private credit right now? Do we continue to see I feel like, you know, traditional Wall Street is saying, wait, I increasingly want a piece of that. How does that impact the market? How does that, you know, impact some of the conversations that you're having with the clients you deal with.
Most LPs are indeed interested in credit. That I mean, you go to them, they don't really want to know about private equity or VC growth, et cetera. They're all interested in credit. I guess up to a point, at some point there will be probably too much available.
And money tracing too many things.
Of course, unlike everything, you know, it's supply and demand. And when there's a you know, too much supply and not enough demand, you're in. You're in. You're in, You're in trouble. Does it.
When you say trouble, though, does it mean that it results in that we see assets being build up in terms of valuations, and so there's going to be fallout.
Yeah, and it's going to mean less less. I mean performance is probably going to be hit. I think it's not. It's not there yet, right, There's going to be a few years where the asset class is going to thrive. But at some point, I mean, things go back to the mean.
Hey, we should know for everybody who has not necessarily been keeping up, Hulhan Loki is acquiring Triogra. The deal is expected to close in the first half of the year. What does this look like for for your life? What does it look like for the business? I mean, this is a big deal.
Do you go on vacations.
I'm not yet dealing. I'm not yet going on vacation. The deal is not closed yet. We are we have signed an agreement. We are basically done, except that we're waiting for regulatory approvals. So we should be done, as you said, in the next month. For the time being, we operate as two different businesses. But at some point, yes, we will become part of a big machine, which is great for us. Lots of new opportunities in this huge market.
Can you give us some details of the agreement?
Can I say, no, you want I'm afraid I'm afraid this was this is still something we are not talking about. Maybe when the deal is done, maybe, I mean that's also that's also something they need to agree to.
Maybe you could tell us what the tie up of these two companies means for your business.
Uh, it means it's really one plus one equals three maybe more. Ours strength are their weaknesses. Their weaknesses are you know, the opposite. There's I mean geographically and business wise. We bring a lot of stuff they don't have. They bring a lot of distribution power to us. They have thirty five offices, we have five. We're not in Asia with Triago, which at some point I guess would have become a problem. So we're now much much stronger. I mean, we will be much much stronger.
But there is something to write being bigger, like I think at some point, because there is so much competition that when you can be a house that offers a lot like as you said, there's not a lot of overlap, there's power in that, and there's something about increasing your presence physically that makes it easier.
Absolutely, absolutely, I think is this There's going to be more consolidation in this space for that same reason you want to be a giant or nothing.
Right, And I'm asuman clients come to you. They want a lot of things that they can play with or work with. Hey, you have shared with us your ten outrageous predictions for private equity in twenty and twenty four. What's your most outrageous?
So I've seen some of them, you know, in the past. Some of them did happen, so maybe not so outrageous, you know. I guess the most outrageous is probably Carla Iken and Nelson Pels buying all the distressed funds out there. I think I put the forty billion number in there. There will be lots of fallout from funds. There has to be some some cleanup, and there aren't many players doing that already. So these guys or similar entities could probably do a lot in that space.
Hey, one thing I was really surprised to see on your predictions for twenty twenty four was Amazon creating an online private equity exchange, this so called category killer. Carol and I've spoken about the past couple of years. The idea of private equity. You know, private equity providers want to access to people's farrow one case. They want to make this thing. You know that just not just high net worth individuals have acces too. What do you mean by Amazon doing this?
I think the asset class needs fluidity. A few years ago, it wasn't really needed because the retail investors were not playing in that game. Today it's a complete different story and they I think these people especially need to know that there's a way out, right.
But that's one of the reasons why returns have been good is because it's you get that high return in exchange for locking up your money for you know, ten twelve years.
Yeah, but you can still get a very decent return even if you leave the show, you know, in the in the in between, right, And that's that's an option, it's not. I guess that most people stay where they are, and ninety nine percent of the paper, the private equity paper, stays where it is. Trades account for roughly one percent. My bet is that, especially if such tool exists, you know, we may go to five percent.
Just got about thirty forty seconds left here. I love this one though about Michael Jordan, Serena Williams and Blue Owl Console Private equity, sports investments, I mean sports private equity. Man, it's a love affair.
Prediction prediction, don't this one could happen.
Thirty seconds here, This one could happen.
This one could happen. I don't know about the names, I don't know about the people. But there's private equity on sports, as you said, is a love affair. And there's a lot to be done in the space. And it's still pretty you know, it's I mean, there's much more to be done compared to other sectors where most of the action has been taking place already.
There's something to you on AI, which I love. AI hits turbulence in private equity, back to acquisitions. I love that because I feel like, maybe take some of the froth out.
Maybe it's an art not as science and human beings are still needed in the space.
Come back soon, let us know. Thanks are going Antwindry and this was fun and interesting and engaging. Founder of Triago joining us here at our Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. I'm Carol Masser along with to the stand of it, this is Bloomberg. Well not sure if this has been on your radar. But cases of syphilis, which yes, was once we're once on its way to being eradicated. Our soaring in the US. Numbers are hitting levels not seen for seventy years. Is according to the CDC, the Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention. So think about it. Cyphilis at one point was on its way to be knocked out completely.
Well, it's a different time now and it's kind of startling. More than two hundred thousand cases were recorded in twenty twenty two. The latest figure show that's up seventeen percent on the previous year. If left untreated, Carol, the disease can cause blindness and even death.
All right, For more on this, we turn back to doctor Ian las Bader, clinical Professor of Medicine at NYU Lango Medical Center. He is on Zoom in New York City. Great to have you here and great to be talking with you, Doctor Les Beater again, I hope you're well.
Everything is great. Hope all is well with the beautiful Carol and handsome Tim.
Oh well, thank you very much, good very much. You will keep coming back after that. No, we're doing well, just trying to keep up with kind of the newsflow. Having said that this, you know, speaking of new use flow and headlines, you know, we are always interested in various health issues. This cut us by surprise, tell us about what's going on when it comes to syphilis in the cases that are increasing.
So we really go from macro events, geopolitical events, Powell interest rates to the micro, from macro to micro. Syphilis has been around for centuries and STDs have been around for centuries. Syphilis is a small spiral bacteria called a spiral keep really goes through several phases. After an acute infection, it goes through a primary and then secondary phases. It
can become latent where really there are no symptoms. And I think that's the biggest issue in those several phases after that initial physical contact where there may be an ulcer Asrah Shanker, and the rate is going up. We have rates of STDs going up two point five million cases all told, chlamydia area syphalus, herpes. Now, syphilis can be asymptomatic after the initial ulcer, and that's really the problem is that we need to screen people better for this.
It's not just a disease of over fifty five communities in Florida. We see this across all groups, in young people and gay men, in heterosexuals, so we really have to screen for it. A pregnant woman have to be screened as well. We're seeing an increase in neonatal syphilis, which can be very devastating for development. So it is very concerning the number of cases two hundred thousand year just of syphilis alone. Easily treatable with antibiotics, bicillin, penicillin
which is easily available. So the key thing really is screening patients, asking people when they come in, ask your doctor, can I have an SDD panel says for HIV IT tys for a syphilis diarrhea test for hepatitis.
Doctor Lesbater, I'm surprised to hear you say that it's easily treated, because we know it is easily treated based on the medications. But aren't these medications historically, at least in the last couple of years, haven't they been in short supply. I mean I'm talking about penicillin. Then bisillin as well has been in shortage.
By bicillin. Bysilin is a certain form of intramuscular penicillin. Okay, Typically you know a big syringe in the butt, which may be why people get a little afraid of that. Yes, you're exactly right. Recently supplies have been short, that's no reason. There are other alternative and oral medications that can be used. That's really no reason not to be tested, and for physicians there are other options. We also have infectious disease specialists.
If you get a positive result on a blood test and you're not sure, refer to an infectious disease specialist so that the patient gets the right treatment. All pregnant women, young, sexually active people, but even older people should be tested if they're single, if they're sexually active. Really, there's no reason not to screen everyone on a regular basis.
Why wait, so, why are we seeing in increasing cases?
Well, I think they're a variety of reasons. Certainly, when people were let out of the gate after COVID, everyone was sheltering in place. In twenty nineteen and twenty, we've really seen an explosion people going out. I think we've dropped our guard. People are not using condoms or barrier methods. I don't think people are really thinking about it, and I think sometimes doctors are uncomfortable to say to young people are old people, How do you feel about doing
STD screening? Usually if you bring it up in the office, patients will say, sure, it's an extra vial of blood, that's fine to do. So I think it's a combination of patients not asking and doctor's not asking, and I think there's been more contact, and I think Tim, you're right. Because of a little less availability, doctors may have been reluctant to test for it or treat for it. The problem with syphilis is people can be asymptomatic and spread it.
Unlike anna rhea or chlamydia, where typically you have painful urination or a drip. Syphilis after the initial infection, maybe asymptomatic patients don't even know they have it. They can present non specifically fever, rash on the hands, swollen lumph notes, so it can be tricky to diagnose.
Doctor Lesbater, I'm wondering if sort of this big shift has happened in recent years with the way that people think about this stuff. You know, when I was growing up, HIV was a death sentence for people. And the incredible advances that we've seen in treating HIV and making it so essentially live people are able to live with HIV
at this point, very long and healthy lives. I'm wondering if we've seen if that is part of a shift in terms of how we think about STDs as a society, that we're no longer sort of scared straight with this stuff.
You're so right. I think that's exactly the case. I think it's off people's radar internationally and globally, there's something like seven point five million cases of syphilis. Forget the other SDDS, that's just syphilis seven point five million globally, So people who travel, people who may have encounters overseas,
we really need to raise it on the radar. And you're right now that HIV rates are coming down and it's more treatable, we give patients at risk pre exposure prophylaxis, so once a day pill for HIV to reduce their ability to transmit it to other people or to acquire it. So you're right, I think our guard is down with the more traditional STDs because HIV is more manageable these days. We really need to raise awareness, and it's good that you guys are raising awareness.
So what would you suggest to individuals listening and thinking, Okay, how do I kind of incorporate this into my own medical care and make sure I stay on top of this.
You know, once a year. There's no harm if you're sexually active, or more frequently than that, certainly, if you engage in high risk behavior. Every time you see the doctor a couple of times a year. In addition to whatever testing PSA cholesterol, ask to have them put in an STD panel which tests for hepatitis, herpes, gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, and if any of those are positive, early treatment means better treatment, less likely to transmit it to someone else.
And if you have atypical symptoms a rash or fever, swollen lymph nodes raise the possibility, there's no harm in doing a blood test, and if they're positive then it's eminently treatable, usually earlier on. Later on it's harder to treat.
All right, Well, some good advice and something to think about when we go, you know, in terms of just your own healthcare. Hey, listen, Ian, thank you so much. Always appreciate getting some time with you, doctor Ian las Bader. He's clinical professor of medicine at ny U Landgown Medical Center. Joining us on Zoom from New York City,