How China Influences Hollywood

movie business. Yeah, it certainly does. It's been pretty remarkable how quickly China has been able to get to to build out. It's it's version of Hollywood in China, and it's something that Eric Schwartzel, Hollywood reporter at the Wall Street Journal, dives into. He joins us right now on the phone from Los Angeles, Eric, how are you. I am happy to be here, Thanks for having me. Congratulations on the new book, Red Carpet Hollywood, China and the

Global Battle for Cultural Supremacy. Your book opens with an anecdote about a group of executives from China coming to the United States all the way back in well not that long ago, two thousand and eight. They were there to to learn from Hollywood executives, some of these executives having run companies that are, you know, a hundred years old. Um, how quickly has China been able to build out, Uh,

it's movie business, it's entertainment business. Since that time, it has done in about a decade and a half what it took Hollywood a hundred years to do. I think a lot of listeners might be familiar with the concept of technology transfer that we see in a lot of sectors when it comes to China. The the idea of being that if you want to invest in China, if you want to do business in China, you might need

to show them how it's done. You might need to hand over airplane blueprints or partner with a state backed company that might want to learn how to sophisticate their operations. Well, the same thing happened in Hollywood and the movie industry. As Hollywood moved into China, China started to observe how Hollywood operated, sometimes in a literal classroom like you referenced, and sometimes just by hiring talent and bringing them over

to show them how to make commercial films. And since then we've seen the Chinese film industry just take off and movies they're routinely grows upwards of five six hundred millions dollars in China alone. And now we're trying to see also this sort of final leg of the race, which is exporting those movies abroad as America has done

for decades as well. You know, it's interesting in a day when we're reporting Disney earnings, I think about the role of these big global companies, including a Walt Disney, their role in in terms of um helping out China. Maybe move forward when it comes to movie making, how do you how do you think about how do you write about a company like Disney and their role in all of this? This needs a fascinating case study because it's spent the past twenty five years going deep into China.

At one point, Um Bob Iger, the former CEO, described the Shanghai Disneylands Park as the best opportunity for the company since Walt Disney himself had bought land in central Florida. I mean this was a country of one point four billion people, a lot of whom had children, and a lot of whom had only children. So I mean, if you're operating Disney's business. You know, a nation of a bunch of only children is about this a dream scenario

as you can get. Um. However, we've seen some of that sex success turned into something of a liability because there is a massive theme park in Shanghai, and there's another one in Hong Kong, and the movies do exceptionally well. However, it's just gotten trickier to do business there overall, not just because under shi jing Ping, doing business in China has grown more opaque, but also because in some cases it has put Disney at odds with its own American government.

Well what does Disney had to give up in order to operate successfully in China? Well, I mean, so let's start with the theme park in Shanghai. Disney is not a majority owner of that park, like a lot of other business ventures in China, it had to partner with local firms and give them majority ownership. So that means that I think about forty is owned by Disney and the rest is owned by companies that are local and

state affiliated. And there were other issues with with disney strategy, the first being that you know, in the mid nineties nineties, when Disney first started looking at building a theme park in China. Chinese officials wanted it right away, and Disney had to say, whoa wa wa. You know, there's a reason we only have four or five of these things in the whole world. We don't just build a theme park when someone asks for it. We have to start start to seed affection with children. So they beg their

parents to take them to that theme park first. And they initially wanted to get the Disney Channel onto Chinese airways right. Government officials in China said no, but they did have other more creative ways to introduce Chinese children to Disney characters, including for a time a string of English language school right that would teach the airtsees and the Disney characters. Eric, we're going to come back continuing

the conversation we're talking about. Eric Schwartzel, author of the new book Red Carpet, will continue in just a moment. I want to get right back to Eric Schwartzel, Hollywood reporter for The Wall Street Journal, also author of the new book came out yesterday. It's called Red Carpet, Hollywood, China and the Global Battle for cultural supremacy. Eric joins us on the phone from Los Angeles, Eric, I want to talk about Maverick's jacket, and I'm talking Tom Cruise

Maverick here. This book is full of so many great anecdotes. I had no idea about the controversy or self censorship surrounding this patch here, but explain the story and how self censorship is embodied in what Paramount has done for the reboot of Top Gun. Right, it's one of the most iconic movie star costumes of all time, right, the the sunglasses and the leather jacket that Tom Cruise wears in Top Gun from the nineteen eighties, and when crew sued it up for the reboots that I think is

now coming out this year, if not next year. It's been delayed a couple of times because of covid um. People notice a key difference on that jacket, which is that the flag patches that were on the back had in the eighties included the flags of Taiwan and Japan,

but in this reboot they were gone. And the reason why I discovered is because Chinese financiers who were helping pay for the film pointed out that those could be a problem because a Taiwanese flag implies that Taiwan is its own country, a geopolitical stance that Beijing disagrees with, and tensions between China and Japan have always been charged, and so maybe while the costume designer was at it,

they should take that patch off as well. And so suddenly you had this movie that in thees symbolized frankly Reaganism on screen, you know, raw raw cinema instead bending to Chinese rules without China really even having to say a word. That is as I think one of the striking things about China's relationship and influence on Hollywood is that we're at the point now that China doesn't even really need to say anything for Hollywood executives to know

what lines not to cross. Well, you also write in the book audience in China are reminded every time they go to the movies that what they're about to see has been approved by their government. And you know, one of the things I think we praise or or embrace big time is that when it comes to art in in so many different forms, including the movie industry, that that is an opportunity for directors, writers, producers, actors, actresses

to put out lots of different points of view freely. Um, it's very different in China, but American companies, global companies have agreed to kind of play by Chinese rules. Is that fair? Absolutely? And and the business behind it makes it something of an economic no brainer for a lot of the studio a chiefs because the Chinese box office has grown so quickly at a time when the US

box office has flatlined. Maintaining access to that market is really about maintaining access to growth and to get into the Chinese movie theaters, as so many studios want to do, they have to pass censorship by Chinese Communist Party officials. So every major movie that is trying to get into Chinese theaters has to be first viewed and approved by

these Communist Party sensors. So that means not just removing you know, maybe something little, some little detail that or a line of dialogues of Chinese sensors don't approve of, but also just avoiding whole topics altogether, like Taiwan or Tibet or aspects of Chinese history that its leaders would

rather not see on screen. What is lost here when it comes to self censorship, when it comes to making sure that movies that are made by American studios don't offend audiences globally, or I wouldn't even use the word offend, but adhere to to what that government sees as its own values. Well, you loud to this a little earlier, and I think it's I think it is a change

for what we've come to expect Hollywood to do. I mean, since the nineteen sixties and seventies, Hollywood has been the industry that is supposed to push the envelope and sort of stand as the American industry of free expression, and increasingly, especially in a global marketplace, that has not really been possible. And so not only do we see certain political concerns or stories taken off screen, but we also see really

um and undercutting a certain representation um. You know, for instance, in China, storylines involving gay characters are all but forbidden. So that's not going to fly in major blockbuster movies. But I think in general, what we're seeing is that for the first time in hollywood hundred and twenty year history, it is not making movies with Americans first in mind, but many times with Chinese censors. Wow, So how do

you you report on this world? How do you kind of put it up against the increased tensions that we're seeing between China and the rest of the world, and certainly between the United States, and being in an environment coming off of George floyd In and the pandemic where we're saying, wait, there's inequalities, there's inequities, there's a lack of diversity and inclusion, and there's racism out there. You know, corporate leaders, you need to stand up. We all need

to stand up to make it a better system. How do you cross that with what you write about? It's you know, it's it's it's the tension that I think has also enveloped entities like the n b a UM, which has also waded into Chinese politics and based similar criticism. You know, it's sort of like, where's this? Is there an hypocrisy there that that actors or athletes who are so willing to engage on social issues domestically won't engage

on them when they are Chinese. Uh? In nature? I think that I think that hypocrisy has really rubbed a lot of consumers and politicians the wrong way. And as tensions between the US and China rise, and I'd also say, maybe even more importantly, as awareness of human rights abuses in China rise, then I think these companies and these athletes are these actors are going to have more to

answer for. And we have yet to see what that public pressure leads to, because so far, anytime there's something of a flare up, it fades from memory rather quickly. And I think the calculation for a lot of business leaders has been the pr hit at home will fade faster than any punishment I face in China. So just take the pr hit as long as you can maintain access in China. Well, I don't know if that dynamical ship. Well, just look at all the corporate sponsors that are over

the part of the Olympics. Such a timely conversation, We really appreciate it, and good luck with the book. Eric Schwartzel, Hollywood reporter at the Wall Street Journal, on the phone from l A. Check out his new book, Red Carpet Hollywood, China, and the Global Battle for a Cultural Supremacy. This just crosses so many different conversations and themes that we're having right now.