Herd Immunity Only Way Out of Covid

You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. I love Fridays for a lot of reasons, but one of the reasons. One of the big reasons is that we get to catch up with our next guest him. Yeah, it's Dr Ian LUs Bader. He's clinical Associate Professor of medicine. He joins us each and every Friday from n y U lingo in a medical center and joining us on the phone from New

York City. Dr LUs Bader, how have you been thinking about this week? Because there are a couple different stories playing out. Yes, vaccines are increasing, but we are also seeing hotspots emerged in places here in the United States, like Michigan, for example, UM, how do you how do you look at those pieces of data that kind of conflict? For sure? Happy Friday. So I think afore we're continuing

to make progress. We're certainly up to at least twenty of the population now that have been vaccinated, and I think we're inching towards her community, which you know, hopefully over the next month or two that combined with people who've already had uh COVID nineteen infections, hopefully we will get closer to her community. And that's really the only way I think that we are going to stop UM not only this spread, but stop some of the mutations

that we've been seeing that are are serious concerns. Hard to know why. There is some specific pockets like Michigan that are seeing a bit of an upsurge. Part of it probably is temperature, meaning we think is the season gets a little warmer, there's a little less viral activity. But I think overall we've made UM would progress. There's still some vaccine hesitancy. I'm not sure in Michigan effects related as well as the weather, but I think we

still have some concerns. Although I think they were starting to be light at the end of the tunnel. So Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan has asked and called for Michiganders to suspend social activities voluntarily for two weeks. She's also asked the federal government to prioritize additional vaccines to the state to help spread to help stop the spread

of COVID. There are those the right moves because there there isn't really general scientific consensus on this, because even if more vaccines were to get there, the period of time it takes for the vaccines to start working, when the virus just sort of do what it does naturally in that period of time. Yes, you're you're You're exactly right. I think there is a multitude of reasons to really

vaccinate as many people as possible. I think we're seeing overall, despite a few concerns here, and they're very high vaccine safety and very high vaccine efficacy. And now we're really broadening out the ages and availability, which I think is important because young people certainly can be a reservoir relatively asymptomatic,

So I think that that is important. Uh, And you're exactly right, even though you closed down for two weeks, even if you started vaccinating everyone, Uh, it takes really at least two weeks to begin to get some antibody response, and we do certainly know patients who get COVID in between their first and second shots. So I think it's helpful. I think one could argue, you know, how helpful it would be really to do just a two weeks shutdown, and you always have to weigh that against economic fallout

in consequences. But I think getting more vaccine and getting it into people's arms will certainly make a positive impact over the long term. Over the short term, you're right, it may not make a significant impact. Hey, dcrlis Bader, I'm curious how concerned you are about the concerns about

Astra Zeneca's vaccine. France pulling the vaccine as a second shot for those under fifty five who have already had their first dose, and then the EU their drug regulators start a review to assess blood clots and people who received J and Jay's COVID nineteen vaccine. I mean, the message has been we're going to need multiple vaccines to get over this. So when you see those kinds of stories, how troubling. Do you find them, uh, somewhat troubling, but

not very troubling. Basically, we do know all of the vaccines are quite efficacious and have a low, not zero, but a low overall incidence of side effects. I think they really need to do more due diligence and find out if those clots really are related to the vaccine. When you're vaccinating millions or hundreds of millions of people, you can always correlate UH deaths or neurologic issues or clots.

I mean, this happens in large populations. The real question is can we tie it specifically to the vaccine or not? And I think we need to wait for that data, and it probably is reasonable to take a little bit of a pause while you're clarifying that. But certainly the other vaccines, the fiser Maderna vaccine generally are available. We've

not seen any significant problems with those. I would be a little surprised to to really believe or see data with clotting because they use um kind of an old fashioned technique of this viral vector where you have this benign virus that introduces the UH important part of the spike protein to to generate antibodies, and that's worked in the past without any significant, you know, complications, So I think it's a concern. Um, I agree, maybe taking a pause.

It's a risk benefit versus you know, having other people not be vaccinated. But I think it is reasonable to look into that, although I'm skeptical that will pan out. Hey, just quickly, thirty seconds and then we'll come back and talk some more about FISER today, just about an hour or so ago. Uh, they're looking for US approval to EXPA in the vaccine vaccine for emergency authorization. We're talking about for adolescence now, Um, that's a big step forward potentially,

Oh yeah, huge. I think it's it's important. Look, we've been giving kids vaccines, even hepatitis B vaccine, you can't start kindergarten. So this sort of vaccine fear and young people I think is not really well founded. Obviously we don't have you know, years of data, but I think it is reasonable, and I think there are complications, some complications rarely with young people, So I'm I support the

twelve to fifteen. Basically, if we vaccinate a large group, we will decrease um mutations and overall gets a heart immunity, and I kind of want to do a town hall with you because I got a couple of quick questions and then I want to move on to stress in Wall Street. But question is can you mix and match COVID vaccines? We don't really know what we think you

can and there may be some benefit to that. UM. We're not in that position yet, but certainly for other countries that hopefully we'll come off rate with who need extra vaccine if we wind up having extra UM, if they've had one, it's probably very reasonable to give a second dose of another vaccine. Hasn't been well studied, but theoretically fine and probably will work out very well. All right. Second question, researchers identifying five new cases of double mutant

COVID variance in California. I feel like I'm watching a crazy movie. What what does that mean? That is concerning? And this double mutant variant has been seen in India extensively. It certainly means if we're seeing five or more cases here, there are probably a lot more that are not found.

The problem with not reaching her immunity quickly is that you get variants, and you get the more the virus replicates the more mutations, and these mutations are more aggressive, easier to spread, and maybe somewhat resistant to the vaccine. So this something is something that needs to be watched. Potentially is quite a concern and hopefully more cases will not be found, but this could be a real problem. Okay,

another one for the lightning. What happens if you don't know that you have COVID, like you're asymptomatic, and you get a shot for the vaccine. Do we know what happens? Probably not much. It may not be as effective where you may have more side effects such as some fever, it chills. There's certainly no danger to it um and it probably will just boost your own immune response, which is fine, all right. Last lightning round wealthiest countries getting

the vaccinine vaccine and vaccinated faster. You know, we keep talking with people about the concerns about that. What do you what are your thoughts on that? You know, it would be great if life were fair, and it would be everyone wants to feel and control. Humans like to feel, uh, they hate change. They love to be in control. And this pandemic has certainly disturbed that. I think it's reasonable for the countries that have developed the vaccine and funded it,

you know, to get it. But unless we really do share extra for example, with Mexico into our southern border that really has a very little vaccine, and around the world, all we're going to do is prolong the infection for everyone. So I think it's in everyone's interest to collaborate and share. But I do think it's reasonable for the countries that have paid for it, you know, to get it first, but certainly not to hoard it. Okay, I didn't mean to stress you out with that, but speaking not at all,

you're so good. But speaking of stress, uh, Wall Street, we feel like all of a sudden, we've seen a flurry of stories. Real Bank of Canada and Toronto Dominion Bank they're giving employees an extra paid day off this year as the pandemic is showing signs of worsening in Canada. I mean, there are concerns about strength, you know, early first time junior investment bankers, you know, telling that you know, the firms are saying you don't have to work on

the weekend. Wall Street stress, Um, you're you know, do you feel like companies and the world is thinking differently about how stress impacts us as workers. I think so. I think companies are thinking a bit differently. They're hopefully thinking more about their employees. This has been a very stressful time. They're documented increased stress, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, fatigue. You know, humans don't like change, they don't like to be vulnerable. We do a lot of things to pretend

we're not vulnerable, even though we are. And I think it's reasonable for companies to make some accommodation. On the other hand, people have to sort of step up and say, you know, life is challenging, let's help each other, let's collaborate, Let's be nurturing to each other if we can. Um But stress comes along and there there will be other problems along the way, and I think we have to, you know, accommodate, but not make people assume that life

is going to be easy. Dr Las Beta. We only have thirty seconds left for this, but do you just leave us with a little tip to help us de stress for the weekend. If people are starting to feel burned out getting the fourteen months into this pandemic one, I think people should feel encouraged that we're getting closer to her community, nurture yourself, socialized very important to socialize

either with distance outside six ft exercise. The weather is getting nicer, take your vitamin D and I think there is light at the end of the tunnel and we do have to hang in there a little bit longer. Thank you. We appreciate that. I like to end on that good, good idea and good advice. Ian, Thank you so much. Dr Ian los Bader, clinical professor of Medicine at n y U Landown, on the phone in New York City. I have to say, is it's gotten warmer, Tim,

that has given me some optimism. Yeah, you know, it's been great. It's just going on walks after work or later at night when it's like not too cold out. It has helps so much. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, there's a story in the magazine this week. It's about the big pharmaceutical company that was out in front in the race for a vaccine, Tim until it wasn't.

That company is Astra Zeneca. Joel Weber is an editor, is the editor of Bloomberg Business We excuse me, Jolly

joins us on the remote from Brooklyn. Jeremy Keane is the futures editor at Bloomberg Business Week, and he joins us on the phone from Turkey, Joel, what happened with Astra Zeneca well is one of the most interesting stories I think UM in in the pandemic because there was this collaboration between Oxford University and Astra at that at the start it really looked like it was gonna be the first vaccine out of the gate that people would

be able to use. And and the beauty of this particular vaccine, of course, is that it is really cheap to make and does not require refrigeration, and so from the get go it was viewed as this great hope because it would be basically the world's vaccine um it. As the UH trials went along, the Astra Zeneca started to have some unforced errors and that's led to where we are now, which is that the company has been

sort of mired in and confusion and hesitancy. And the ultimate is cure is that UM a vaccine that does look to be effective. And there has been recent news about UH some current concerns about UM clots that should be taken seriously. But but the pluses continue to outweigh the minuses. Um, yet we we could end up prolonging the pandemic because of the hesitancy around the vaccine. So

so Jeremy was the guiding editor on this story. UM, Jeremy, I'm just curious to you as as you got into this, Like there was so much There's been so many stories about astro over the past several months, and like, I think this was the best read that pulled it all together. And I'm curious to you, like, what what were the things that really stood out to you as you were

editing the story. I think you know, for me, joll it was the sense almost as it's I hesitated to the author of tragedy because like, this is still a good vaccine, you know, like they they're the the Affrica series lots and pretty good at being very good, I would say, in the mid seventies. UM. And the you know that the clotting is something that you know, governments

are clearly taking very seriously. UM. But it becomes hard to kind of separate what, um, you know, the story of the vaccine from from the cauldron of the pandemic and all the things that you know they were doing as the front that were really that they they were trying to do something under immense pressure. The world was, you know, shutting down everybody. You know, people were dying

really quickly. And the company in partnership with UM, you know, with the University of Oxford that you know, they set terms that were designed to have the vaccine be not for profit. There are so many good intentions that that went into it. And you know, it's true that they had a lot of unforced dairs, but even some of those unforced errors are difficult to separate in a way from UM you know, just from from the way that things are perceived during a pandemic versus the way that

they might have been perceived outside that context. You know, like those trials we're so closely watched and you know, yeah, right, well, you know, Jonathan, how much of it was I mean, jeremy, excuse me, how much of it was that this was you know, it was a partnership. It was kind of complicated. I mean, Oxford was, you know, I think starting their trials, it was recording this story, you know, when Astra came in, you know, so it was kind of a complicated relationship.

I feel like from the get go, and also this is the first vaccine, right that Astra has done. That's that's correct. They have they have they had a flu um treatment. I believe that that was pretty much the only the only thing that they that they had really done in that area. And you know, they definitely had a very good reputation heading in under under their their CEO.

You know, they'd really gotten a good reputation for putting uh, you know, drugs, particularly cancer drugs, getting new treatments on the market. Um. But when they came in, you know, like Oxford had already been working on this, they had already begun plans for UK and Brazil and South African trial, so they took over that part of it, and then you know, Astro said, okay, well we'll we'll work out

the US trial. And so you know, right at the very beginning, there was there wasn't one trial protocol that was going on everywhere, and you know that that makes a little harder to kind of explain what you're doing and to keep track of things and to tell your story, to tell the story of what you're what your vaccine

can do to the public. Well, speaking of that, what is the potential consequence of these blunders over the past few months from Astro's enco when it comes to the global rollout here, because this is this was supposed to this is what was supposed to be a vaccine that was really supposed to help prevent COVID in many people around the world because it's so much easy to transport than the m R and A shots from Visor and moderna Joel take it away and go ahead, Jeremy Well,

I was just gonna say quickly that and to be clear, like you know, it's still doing that in places that you know there. But the consequences, of course are especially with the you know the report that just a couple of days ago, um, you know, the the the European Regulatory Agency, the British Regulatory Agency can come out and discussed a possible link between the vaccine and these blood clots and you know, we're talking about an incidence. I

believe it's for every million. Was the figure that that the UK I'm not mistaken them up with, and you know, so that you can talk about where that lies on the continuum of risk. But they're all these people are also still saying like the benefits of taking it far away the risk especially in the elderly where the incidents of clotting seems to be lower, and also UM and also because the risk of of what happens if if

you catch COVID is so much higher. So you know, that's all still that that part is still true like that, you know, they still want to be getting this vaccine out there into the world. But there's also the problem of course that hesitancy. UM. You know. We one thing that that that's discussed towards towards the end of the

piece is that UM. You know, you have people coming out and saying this is partly a public relations problem because people see these mistakes, these the and you know, these the reports about the clots come up and people die away from taking something that the world needs people to be. Yeah, I think that that confusion part is the ultimate um uh unforced air. Right. Had this uh collaboration gone more more smoothly, UM, we probably would have had a vaccine that people would not have had any

hesitancy about UM. And instead we've inserted a modest amount of head fakery into this whole thing, and that's just leads to confusion. And you know, the number one thing is we're seeing um around the world is like, you know, this is still a very lethal virus. The mutations UM we we still don't undersstand. And the more people that get vaccinated, the more protection that we have. So the

hesitancy is really just impeding it. So the fact that this goes from first to last, and then I have to say, like, you know, the kicker of the story of just like from astros in Eco's perspective, they wouldn't even probably done this if they were to do it all over again. I just think really kind of sums it all up. Not easy to go from favorite child to problem child, that's for sure. Hey, Jole, thank you so much. Joe Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week, Jeremy Keane,

the Features editor of the magazine. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich on Bloomberg Radio. All right, Tim, so you remember the story we told everyone about a few weeks ago as a Bloomberg exclusive is broken by one of our reporters. It was about to start up Varcada and thousands of its surveillance devices were hacked into. We are learning more though about that company, including about the fat boys culture

that rained there. It's our most read story on the Bloomberg. Yeah, and for a good reason. Uh, it is a fantastic story. William Turton is a Bloomberg New cybersecurity reporter and he joins us on the phone. Now, William, I'm glad we're getting to talk about this again. William was on Quick Take with me a little earlier in the day to talk about this story. What did you learn about the culture of Vercada and hey, how perhaps it was connected to the problems that the company has had when it

comes to its own cybersecurity. Thanks for having me. So we spoke to you know, eight current and about sixteen former employees who told us that, you know the company in some ways, it's comparable to a frat house, you know, particularly as sales t the sales team was really focused on profits in scale um and in the course of doing that, they threw a lot of parties, even parties during the pandemic. But they also mislead their customers. They told them they made them promises about the security of

its products. It just simply weren't true. They told potential customers that Ricotto Commerce are virtually unhappable. They would tell customers that Ricotto was an M I T slash Stanford company, which is not true. Just the co founders are alumni of and my team Stanford. UM and so you know

this culture. A lot of employees said that, you know, when the hack eventually happened, they weren't that surprised because, you know, for a company that has so much valuable kind of insight and it's essentially running just kind of a massive private surveillance state. Um, they didn't take a lot of care to make sure that the privacy and security of cameras were protected. And yet they have some impressive investors Sekoya Capital. Yeah, yeah, you know, they've raised

ten millions of dollars in center capital investment. They've grown extremely quickly. They've gone you know, they started in essentially no market share to now being one of the biggest

players in the market. Um. And and that is because you know, they had such a massive cash infusion, right um And so right, it does beg the question where was the oversight, Where was uh, you know, the adults in the room basically to make sure that you know, saying the company wasn't run like this in a way that you know, people told us they felt like they were bullied, women felt like they were degraded, um um.

And where you know, with the oversight to make sure a massive hack like that that you know, probably all of the company's reputation for a very long time didn't happen. Can I just say it's an incredible work of reporting by you Ryan Gallagher, Sarah McBride and Brody Ford, because you guys, I mean tell us about it you talked to because you get into very a lot of specifics. Um. Certainly what as anated with me was some of the things about video footage of female employees being passed around

among male colleagues, who then offered graphic comments. Um. Tell us who you talked to to really kind of confirm what was going on, because these are some big charges. Yeah. So you know, we spoke to uh, current and former employees, and you know, I will say we did speak to some people who defended the company, but you know, even the people that we spoke to who defended the company could not deny the reality of the culture for product. Right.

But you know, the company has said that they're making changes, they're they're trying to make it a more inclusive and equitable workplace. UM. But you know employees have not seen that change yet. UM. You know, we we spoke to people who are currently so employed there and and you know they've said, not much has changed. UM. So you know it's it's it's gonna be interesting to see what

happens with the company moving forward, William. When you when you dig into histories of of Silicon Valley startups that are now big companies, you often do find time and instances where they were frat like environments. And I brought this up earlier in our conversation. Reading your story today, it really reminded me of what I read about Uber and Travis Kalenik in this god mode that allowed so many employees to actually see where specific customers were going

in Uber at any given time. Is what happened at Vracada so much different than what has happened at so many other Silicon Valley startups? Right, right, I mean, a god mode is such a good compacter because it's so uh, I mean, it's it's almost exactly the same. Right. There was a feature at admin at Ricata called super Admin that allowed hundreds of its employees to view the live speeds or archived videos of any of its customers. And that's also the hackers got in through one of those accounts.

And you know, initially I think some people try to say, oh, well, they should secure those accounts better so the hackers can't get in. And the response was, no, those accounts should not exist, that ability should not exist. And now Ricata has gotten rid of that feature and they have new process whereby customers have to kind of manually grant Forcata access to its cameras. Um. So you know, it is it's a it's a great question, Like it is kind

of preparable to a lot of the cultures here. But you know, at the end of the day, this company is in charge of tons of surveillance cameras, so you might expect, you know, a little bit more decora and professionalism and like kind of understanding the weight of the responsibility they have. Well, even Sekoia Capital what their most

prominent investor. As you kick off your story, they had a pretty heated conversation it sounds like with Vercata after this hacking came out about like shut off the cameras to us, Yes, I mean this was one of the most remarkable moments for us when we were reporting the story. You know, in the wake of the hack, Forcata was having these weekly webinars with the CEO where they would

answer questions from customers. And not only was the koya uh an investor in the company, you know, they also used for Cata cameras, right, and so it was kind of incredible for us to see one of their I T employees on that call asking, hey, um, how can we make it so Racotta employees can access our cameras.

I mean, that was a really stunning moment. Honestly, in our reporting what happened at the Casper Mattress store, and you only have thirty seconds, a drunken sales party that was in part a scavenger hunt ended up inside of Cusper Matress store. Many drunken employees were wrestling, taking pictures closing on the bed, so much so that a customer service person in the cast Re store called the Ricotta customer service line to ask them to bring someone in

to knock it off. And they knew they were doing that because we're all wearing for Catta merchandise while they were in the store. Listen, unbelievable. You got to go to the story. There's so much detail about what was going on at the company. But I also to be fair, Um, you did also ask Raccata to address all of these issues. So it's all in this story because they have certainly responses to the concerns about how it was being marketed and what was going on inside the front Great piece

of reporting. Another great piece of reporting because we Turtin broke that initial hacking story for us a few weeks ago. William Turton, cybersecurity reporter at Bloomberg News, on the phone in New York City, Brother, a journal Yeah, but you let me drive? Oh no, no, no no, no, home honey, please, I'll do the riding drivel. I want to drive, Just drive, baby, the questions trying. This is the drive to the globe.

Give me thanks. We'll drying us on Bloomberg Radio. All right, we've just got about nine minutes left in today's trading session. We're getting ready to wrap up the day and the week. And this is a week where we have seen quite a rally. Tim, Yeah, we really have. Um. You hear the numbers from Charlie just now. The SP five higher by seven tenths of one percent. Right now, the dale higher by eight tenths of one percent and weren't trading

near records. Yeah, and we're up big time, almost two point six percent for the week overall on the S and P. So let's get to it with Danta di Oria. She's co chief investment officer the publicly held invest NEET PMC. She joins us on the phone in Connecticut. Um, Dana, nice to have you here with Tim and myself. How are you good? Thanks so much for having me. I'm glad to be here. Well, Quit great to have you here too. Uh. It's been an interesting week. For a while.

We were like hohm, looking for reasons for you know, there were days where we were up a little bit, down a little but yet by the end of the week we've seen a pretty significant move to the upside. Here. What's the macro backdrop here? Yeah, well, I think, um, we're seeing a lot of good indicators and um, you know, across the board, so consumer sentiment is up, obviously, consumer confidence is up. We had a great jobs report, as

you know, added um sixteen thousand jobs in March. Um p m I is up, so uh really kind of across the board, there's a lot of good indicators, and of course we have the COVID checks kind of hitting, so it makes sense that it makes sense that that stocks would follow obviously. So what do rails this though? I mean, we we've talked about this throughout the show today,

just what we've seen so far this year. For the week Carol mentioned the number for the year, it's up nine percent, Dow up more than NASDAK up more than seven point seven pent, Like, what what do rails this rally? Here? Well, we do have the specter of earning season coming and um, you know the newly released tax bill proposal, and so I think you know, we do have obviously all of this monetary stimulus. But at the same time, now the market needs to grapple with what what does it mean?

You know, these these corporate tax increases, And I think you're getting more and more detail kind of coming out on this and analysis is happening, and it will definitely be interesting to see as earning seasons off, what companies have to say as they start to look and say, okay, what does this mean for you know, our dividends are our buy back capex that's that are right? Even are hiring? So I think, um, what potentially derails it is sort of analysis and kind of a stinking in on what this,

what these tact pikes could mean. It's obviously a very ambitious bill and um, you know that that kind of getting priced in which I don't think we've quite seen yet. Hey, let me ask you, Dana, because investment provides a lot of support for financial advisors software tools, and from what I understand, your footprint is around million investor accounts. So what are we seeing those investor accounts? Where is new money being committed? What kind of growth are we seeing

in terms of new funds being committed to investing. Yeah, so well, just at a high level, money is going into equities. As you can imagine this last quarter with the interest rate increases, fixed income kind of really took a hit. So we know, just at a high level, equity are seeing in flows, um, fixed income maybe some

some decreases. I will say an individual investor accounts that are guided by advisors, they they're not as pick to move maybe, um, you know as some of the retail assets that are you know, direct directed brokerage, because the advisor is they're trying to prescribe some discipline keep you to your plan, right, if you're a sixty forty, trying to sort of keep you in that sixty forty And if after the last quarter that we had, you'd actually be if you were rebalancing, you'd be um buying, uh,

you know, you'd be buying in the reverse because of course you had a loss in fixed income, which is which is unusual. And I think a lot of people now getting their quarterly statements and looking and saying, wow, I lost three hundred basis points in my fixed income? Are are you know, kind of grappling with that a little bit? But ass are there to provide discipline and you know, well, let me ask you about this because

we've had a lot of discussions here on Bloomberg. A lot of people are asking, you know, at the sixty forty portfolio is no longer good enough, especially if you take a look at what's happened in trade shoull fixed income over the last decade or so. It's been hard to find yield. So sixty forty or is it still That's what you guys are seeing in terms of the investor accounts at people and financial advisors, they're still playing

it kind of traditionally safe. Yeah, it'll be it'll take a lot to move that right that a d percent. That's a topic of conversation, um, and you know, are there ways to get better yield? So certainly more interest in private markets. I mean obviously you're looking then at a credited investors, qualified purchasers, but to the extent that you know you're in the high network space, definitely looking at private markets and alternative options to say, okay, can

I diversify that fixed income position? I mean, if you're in a sixty forty, you think about the chunk of money right out of your overall investment that you're putting into something that's really low yielding. Return isn't great. And now of course, as as I mentioned, you're you're even seeing losses. You know, the story had been well at least at least at least it's a mattress, right and now it's not even that So so yes, percents, there's questions about that. I think, um loquid also as well

for not credited. Listen, Dana, we gotta run um, but really appreciate your input today. Have a good week in Dana Dioria, Co Chief Investment Officer of Investment PMC. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube. Search to Bloomberg Global News