These sees Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Stenovic on Bloomberg Radio. I have to say, Damian, we were thinking about this. One of the conversations we've all been having following the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank was the uptick in social conversations ahead of the bank's takeover and how that might have contributed to the bank run on SVB. It's just kind of part of the narrative.
We're living in this increasingly digital world with NonStop data collection everything we do, everything, we buy, everything, we say, everything, we think right, and we willingly contribute to contribute to it, or don't even realize the data dump that we keep doing. I came across one measure the world generating some two and a half quintillion bites per day. I don't even know what quintillion is. It's just gigantic. So with that
in mind, let's bring in our guest, Nita Farahney. She is the author of the Battle for Your Brain, defending the right to think freely at the age of neurotechnology. She's Professor of Law and Philosophy at Duke University, founding director the Duke Initiative for Science and Society. Delighted to have with her here via zoom Endorament, North Carolina, Nita Welcome, Welcome at TI Blomberg BusinessWeek. Carol Master with Damian sasaur So tell us about what is the Battle for our
brains It's been waging for a while. First of all, it's so nice to be with you here today. But The Battle for a Brain is a book that talks about the next step in data commodification, which is commodification of our brains. So that's already happening in many ways, as all of the different platforms that we that we're on crete psychogenic profiles of us. But there's more coming, which is the coming age of consumer brain wearables. People are used to wearing already fitbits or Apple watches that
have sensors that are embedded in them. What they don't have yet, although some people use them already, our sensors that track their brain activity and decode what's happening in their brains. And that's what's launching now is multifunctional devices like earbuds and headphones and watches that have neural interface pick up into code brain activity. Yeah, some of the items you address in the book, I mean for me. Wait wait wait wait wait, you're telling me so far. Wait.
So if I put on earbuds, bows, earbuds or something, you're telling me they're picking up brain activity. Not today, but they will so the you know kind of next Basically, like every major tech company from Meta that is coming out in early twenty twenty five with a watch that the primary way that you'll interact with their AAR glasses is neural interface. It'll pick up brain activity as it goes for your brain down to your rest or um.
You know, companies like Neurable have headphones where they've partnered with a major headphone manufact actor, like your bows headphones um that's in the cups that go around the ears. They have sensors that pick up brain activity. And you know, the kind of goal for most of these companies is to make neural interface the kind of primary way that
you interact with the rest of your technology. Like eventually you might not need a keyboarder or a mouse, but until that day, right until that day, you'll be able to track your brain activity for focus and attention and mind wandering and helpless metrics. Things that you couldn't do before suddenly will become possible and will also become possible for companies and governments, And so the battle for your brain is the kind of rush to this field to
see who can really hack and track the human brain. Sanita, you mentioned brain biometrics and deciphering, you know, all that all that's going on up there, you know, But some of the items in the book that you mentioned, I mean, it should create out a minority purport, you know. I feel like Tom Cruising talking about arresting individuals for even contemplating murder, not even committing it. I mean, if that were the case, I mean, I've been arrested a long
time ago. But I mean, how far away are we from having technology that can effectively read people's minds? Well, what I say to people as a defensive what you think your mind is right? So if you think of your mind is literally the inner dialogue that you're having, I think it's a long ways before these types of
technologies will decode that complex thought. But already with the technology today, your basic emotional levels, your reaction to everything from pictures of political candidates that might be able to suss out what your political biases are too. If your mind is wandering when you're at work and your employer asked you to wear one of these neural devices that track your fatigue levels or your attention or your engagement or your gordom. That's already possible today, and the technology
even enables probing the mind for information that's there. And so you mentioned the Minority Report, which I talk about it in the book and I always talk with my students about but it's already being used by law enforcements around the world to interrogate criminal suspects for recognition of a crime scene detail or a murderer weapon or something
like that. So it's really one of the things I hope to do with the book is to just document kind of EXAs ample after example of what's already here and how much of the brain can already be decoded, and how much of it is already in use already. So within a technology, there's the good, the bad, and the ugly. What's the upside to this? It can't all
be bad? Or is it all? No, No, it's really not all that I mean, right, So, first of all, I think in the hands of individuals who have control over their own brain data, suddenly the one area of our bodies. That's the most important aspect of our well being.
Our brains becomes accessible to us, so you know your ability to actually start to track brain metrics and metrics of well being in health, and to know what's happening in your own brain, including by the way, how well you pay attention or focus if you're working from home or working in the workplace, or what your optimal hours are, or how you meditate effectively to bring your stress level
it's down. There's a lot that these technologies can do to empower individuals, but it all depends on who has access to what's happening in your brain, how is it used or how is it misused, And that's the kind of balance that we really have to be striking. Now. That's what this book is about, is a call to action to say we're standing at a fork in the road.
There is this major inflection point at the deployment of this technology as all of the major tech companies come out with these products and devices, and we have choices to make that could set the terms of service in favor of individuals to make it something that's empowering, not the dystopian or rebellian possibilities on the other side, NITA are people using brain biometrics to handle real world problems and diseases. I'm thinking dementia, Alzheimer's. Are there new technologies
and treatments that are coming to market that can impact that. Yeah, there's some really promising ones. There was in the research for the book, I came across a company in Israel who are in clinical trials for the possibility of detecting epileptic seizures an hour before they occur. That could be incredible for people to suffer from epilepsy or ability to
be able to use it for depression. There's already some companies that are using it to provide low levels of electrical stimulation that can be transformative or neurofeedback for people who have ADHD. They can use the devices to be able to train their brains to have better concentration and focus, and in some head to head studies against using drugs, the neurofeedback is very favorable. Well. So there's a lot of potential health applications and ways in which this can
be transformational for humanity and good ways. There's just also the dystopium possibilities that we have to safeguard against and those aren't minor because you know what you think, what you feel. It's so fundmental to who we are. Having that inner space of mental privacy and freedom of thought is so critical that we just can't get it wrong this time. We can't know what trade or brain war I feel like right? Well, But but you've always thought
you had that at least right. You thought you at least had your thoughts right right in a related topic. So then how do you because you obviously study, you know, I feel like falls under your purview when you think about the work that Elon Musk is doing with neuralink, and he wants to build this brain chip interface it can be implanted that might help disabled patients ultimately move or communicate again, or restraint vision. How does this and we've got about a minute left, how do you think
about that? So you know, I have a chapter dedicated to these implanted technologies. And while I think it'll be a long time before a healthy person will choose to have implanted neurotechnology, it's just not safe enough for somebody who doesn't need it yet. The possibilities already are transformational for people who have everything from neurodegenerative disorders like als, to be able to communicate again, to being able to
move and have independence to interact with other technology. I'm very bullish on what those companies are doing and developing and how thoughtfully they're trying to develop the technology. There's real risks, but there's huge up in that space and it could be incredible for so many people. I have to just say, my brain hurts a little bit because I'm trying to understand there's a lot going on in our world, and I'm thinking that the government's listening to
me through my earbuds. No, it's fascinating. Nita. Hopefully you'll come back soon and we can continue this conversation. Nita Farahney. She is Professor of Law and Philosophy at Duke Law School. Her book out is The Battle for Your Brain, Defending the right to think freely in the age of neurotechnology. I do feel like when it comes to the brain the human body, were you still learning so much? Oh? Absolutely? And Carol, hopefully they're not listening to my brain and
wondering how I'm going to cheat on my taxes. I'm sorry if you're still listening. I would never do that.