Fed Policy During Coronavirus Outbreak

on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You can also listen to our radio show weekdays at two pm Eastern only on Bloomberg Radio. Now. One story that struck um my. We struck me earlier and really caught my attention about government's finally getting the message that they're going to have to run exponentially bigger budget deficits to keep economies afloat as the coronavirus brings the world to a sudden halt.

So there's lots of scrambling going on. I do want to talk a bit about the economy and what we're seeing. Diane Swank certainly friend to Bloomberg, Chief economists at Grant Thornton. She's on the phone from Chicago. Diane, good to have you here. YouTube. We you know, we were talking earlier about folks who have seen a lot of different cycles, market cycles, economic cycles, user we have seen several Where does this stack up. There's just nothing to compare it

to the extraordinary, just absolute stop and economic activity. That's nothing that there is any precedence for. I mean, the losses that we saw a compound during the height of the crisis. We're still done over the course of weeks and months, not literally overnight, as cities were shut down. Um, we're shutting down manufacturing, in the service sector, everything all at once, and there's no ability for many consumers to actually go out and spend, even if they do get

these stop gap measures. That doesn't mean the stock gat measures aren't absolutely necessary. We can't stop recession from coming. Um, we do have to go through this virus induced recession, but we can keep people afloat in COVID tainted waters that allow us to have a better rebound once we can ramp up again and the outbreak has abated. And so Diane, let's talk about the FED because obviously, you know,

we were to come up with almost a metaphor. You've got j Pali sort of running through the arsenals that we're opening every cabinet that he can, taking out every weapon, what's been the most effective? What else does he and the team need to do here or can they do well?

You know, it's interesting the UM up ed piece written by former FED chairs Bernacki and Yellen, who actually, you know, have the value of hindsight and knowing exactly how bad a financial crisis can be, suggesting that the FED, you know, reopen UM, revisit Congress and restart the long term asset backed lending facility program that allows them to lend more aggressively and get credit to households and businesses, but also asking Congress for permission to UM actually buy in the

corporate bond market, which is seizing up. They have the value of high indsight and knowing the actual you know, we don't want this health crisis. It is already metastasizing into a financial crisis. We have to stop that. And UM the FED is going to need a lot more latitude. And actually their wings were clipped in the wake of the cry this because Comngress didn't want them to have that latitude. Well now you want them to have a

lot more latitude. So literally they can start using the three D printer to print up a new arsenal of tools to deal with an intervene and credit markets where they belong. To keep the oil of the market machinery sort of in there. Without it, the market itself well sees up, the entire economy will see up. Credit markets are the oil of the market machine. So keeping that machinery of the market as well as uh the economy running, Diane at this point as much as we can. At

this point. During the financial crisis, we got an unbelievable amount of coordination. I felt along all different branches of the government, of central banks, of bankers, I really felt like the global community we saw come together. Are we seeing that necessary coordination that we need to combat this on a health level as well as a market level and economy level. Badly, I wish we had a lot more coordination. I mean, first of all, we have fewer tools,

um than we did back then. You really had a sense that all or as are in the water globally to try to get us from turbulent waters to land. During the height of the financial crisis, the coordination has you know, we've seen you know, a lot of breaks in our coordination, and that is showing up in not only are dealing with the crisis, but how the crisis have sped from country to country. And I think you know the thing we always forget is we all have

a common enemy here. We have to fight this global phenomena that there's a health crisis together, and the common enemy is the new coronavirus, the novel coronavirus. And doing that collectively testing, increasing the number of tests, being able to take lessons from countries like Korean Singapore that didn't have as bad of a disruption from the viral outbreak and the surge in cases as we're seeing elsewhere, including here. That's important because this is not the last time we're

going to have a pandemic. We have to get the lessons from this and move forward. Diane only got about a minute left here. Uh, when will we see the full economic impact of this? I know that's a really difficult question, but when will we start to at least get the sort of parameters or some sense of our arms around it. Any modeling that you guys are doing, We're doing lots of modeling, and um, it's really hard because you get a decline in GDP that has a

disproportionate decline in jobs. And you know, we're looking at something close to right now high of you know, close to seven on the unemployment rate um. And then as things come back, um and that's almost over seven million jobs just close to financial crisis. It could be more than that because of just the sheer magnitude of people that are literally overnight losing jobs. Um. That is what's really hard. That is not you know, the magnitude of losses in GP don't compare to that because, um it,

you don't have the same kind of reaction function. The models you have to break them because you have this extraordinary disruption. But you can also have a very rapid ramp up after we get through the crisis and learn even with anti viral drugs and better testing and better average, better technology of how to mitigate the effects of the outbreak, we could be able to see a much bigger ramp up later on. Well, and I think you're pointing about, this isn't the last time we're gonna be dealing with

these kinds of situations. So we got we we really have to figure out the playbook and really prevent it. Uh. I know how to be prepared for Diane Swamp, thank you so much. We know this is a busy time. Diane Swamp, chief economist at Grant Thornton, joining us on the phone from Chicago. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Let's

turn now to the medical side of this crisis. Lisa Romano joins this, chief nursing officer for Cipher Health on the phone in New York City. And Lisa, great to have you with us. And I should say, like anyone in the medical world, we really owe a deep gratite debt of gratitude. Uh two, So thank you for all the work you're doing. Help us understand the screening side of this and the testing side, because that is at the core of making all of this better. Right, Yes, yes,

thank you for having me. Uh. I can tell you that, uh, you know, COVID nineteen continues to progress rapidly, you know, seeing increasing number of cases, and we know that there are steps to take to protect yourself. But at the end of the day, UM, it is essential that we perform screening before anyone comes into the hospital h for any procedure or any visit. UM. We need to keep the healthcare providers safe UH so that we have people

to take care of those that are sick. So the screening that UM we are looking at, following you know CDC guidelines and also now working UM with many hospitals in the US that are taking care of patients with the virus, is looking for stems like a dry cough, fever greater than a hundred point three UM, and shortness

of breath. UM. The good news is that most patients UH do recover from infection with COVID nineteen, but we do see patients at a point that they start to experience symptoms of UM respiratory distress UH, you know, difficulty breathing that they do need care. So screening is essential UM. And then following that up with testing. And we have seeing that there is more availability of lab testing now UM, not quite as UM easy to get yet, but certainly better than it was last week at this time UM.

And you know part of that laboratory testing is actually getting test results to do and you know that has been a challenge for clinical providers that are baby taking care of SURGE. So give us an idea though, because I do think there's so much still confusion among the communities across America about should I get tested? Should I not get tested? In terms of science, So what is

this program? This reach you screening program? You guys, it sounds like are the screening program encourages hospitals and healthcare systems to actually reach out to the community. Yeah. So our our program uses telephone technology that allows the person who has been called to actually interact via the phone or by text message, UM using prompts, and we can

do the symptom checker asking those questions. UM. And if they do answer a question in a way that it triggers a you know, positive symptoms screening, it is escalated to a live person. So it's essentially triaging patients. And at that point, UM, when the you know, clinical provider calls that patient back, they're able to say, UM, we're going to reschedule your procedure or you can seek care

in this location. UM. Telemedicine has become very valuable during this crisis, where you know, you can through a you know, telephone screen, computer screen, actually see the doctor. So, UM, screening is essential. So how worried should we be about the numbers? Just spiking so dramatically here, Lisa, as more testing comes through. UM, I have been a nurse for thirty two years. I have never seen anything quite like this. UM,

and I will say that I am concerned. UM. I think that part of the reason we're seeing this very dramatic rise, I mean literally from yesterday to today is shocking. Right. There's currently the CDC is saying there's seven thousand, thirty eight cases in the US. UM is that we have more testing available, right, So some of that is that we did have these patients before, we just didn't know

that they had the COVID nineteen virus. That said. UM, what we've learned from looking at the progression of the virus in other countries is that the escalation continues and it continues to ramp up. And there's that bell shape curve that everyone sees on television, you know, trying to you know, UM, trying to flatten that out. UM. The best way we can do that is through this now

trendy word of social distancing. Uh, you know, but that's difficult to do, so, you know, I mean, I think, I mean, everybody should do their best, and we should absolutely try to do that, but there are some people that do need to go to work that you know, do need to go out, do need to go to the hospital. So only the healthcare providers and that where you need to take measures, right, you know, protecting yourself. Well, we really appreciate your time, UM, Lisa, thank you so much.

We know it's a hectic time for you as well. Lisa Romana, she's chief nursing officer at Cipher Health. UH here in New York City. You are listening to Bloomberg Business Week on this Wednesday, Carol Master along with Jason Kelly, both of us broadcasting from home, as are our next members of our team. Vernon Silver's Projects and Investigations reporter at Bloomberg News. He is on the phone from Rome.

Joel Weber is editor Bloomberg Business Week, on the phone in Brooklyn, And this is all about for and in your story, Um, really an important story to read, and it talks about what happened in Italy specifically, and you talk about that there really was a huge denial that was going on and now we see kind of how this virus is playing out there. Talk to us a

little bit about your story in the magazine this week. Yeah, I mean What was amazing is to realize as this unfolded was that we and Italy were going through something that people have gone through an epidemics through centuries, which is the first do you think that it's somebody else's problem and you know, just elbow it away, as as the head of the big hospital in Milan who deals with these things says, And then next it's next door and it's like, well, my neighbor has it, and then

you have it in your house and it's like, well, it's not a big deal. And then finally you're you know, you're totally wrecked and you're all sick and everybody dies, and then oh yeah, that was a problem. Um, and this is exactly what had happened here. And talking to people and seeing, you know, even what was going on social media, it looked like people in the UK, or in France or certainly in the US were only two weeks behind us in that process. And so vernon what

are the lessons? I mean, I feel like we are all in the United States looking to Italy with a combination of terror and anticipation and also desperately one to know what, if anything, can we do differently? What lessons are to be learned here. I mean, one thing to do is is to take seriously, you know, any anything that you that you hear, even if it's not required. And one big change that happened, and this is a slow process through through a week of people suggesting things

and then requiring things. You know that the north of the country being locked down, the south of the country being locked down. At some point if things go in this direction, you're going to want to be pretty much completely locked down and um well supplied and following the rules.

And one thing, one thing that was really clear is that when there were rules, and again you know, totalitarian tendencies aren't things that a lot of people like, but when there are rules, it makes a lot of people happier about knowing that everybody else is going to be following the rules and they don't have to be self conscious about following the rules about what's going to be healthier,

uh for everyone. And the other thing that that came out is that it's a kind of a filter to see what sort of people surround you, whether they are people with empathy or people who are only thinking for themselves. It's there's a lot that's going to come out on the other end of this about discovering who you are, who you're you know, neighbors are, who who you're you know, who your friends are, and who the people in your

community are. Get to that end, you know. I just think UM a lot of when we read this story, when Vernon filed it, I think we were It was like a punch to the gut in many ways, because it was like, this thing is coming, you know, and we were able to see, you know, see it in advance, and you start to, almost on a personal level, attempt to do some things that could help UM. But I think the thing that was profound to the story and why I just encourage everybody to read it on the

terminal or in this week's forthcoming issue or online. The thing that really stuck out is that there's human side to a catastrophe like this that we can't overlook. And the fact, the takeaway that I think just struck us and literally provided a sense of awe was that. And Vernon, I would love to hear more from you about this. But at six pm every evening, romans are opening their windows and singing together out their windows. UM. And if that doesn't give you some chills, and maybe even a

tear in your eye. I don't know what will yeah, I mean this is this is one of the things that we already were in a routine at six pm every day of hearing that literally the death Toll, where a man from Civil Protection would come on TV and say, this is how many people are in facted, this is

how many people are dead. Um. And about a week after everyone started watching that, um, once everyone got shut in, they started this new tradition of everyone going to their windows at six pm and singing and and it depends on the neighborhood, and it depends on if there's you know, a ringleader who's going to strike up something or has a guitar and or maybe turns to speakers of the

stereo out the window and and get things going. UM. But it is a battle that's constant of people to sort of fight the sadness and the melancholia that's that's always hanging in the air. But there are those moments that make you think, all right, we're gonna pull We're

gonna pull through it. And having you know, this is like a natural disaster, and having covered things like like hurricanes, there's a certain sense of hope, Um, that you get where you think it's gonna be really really bad, and very often because people take the right decisions and do the right things along the way and stick together, a lot of time ends up being a lot worse than

you thought it would be. And that and that's you know, that's how I you know, I see this coming out partly just through the character of Italians and how they've come together with this. What I found striking Vernon too, and just listening to various coverage and just folks how they're lining this to going back to World War Two, like the bombings of London where people had to kind of really hunker down, you know, lights were off, everybody

was in their homes. Um. But it is you know, and even the President I think talked about, you know, bringing in the Department of Defense. This is a war, it's a health war, but nonetheless it requires something that I think for many of us have never seen before. Yeah,

and I think in the war comparison. There was a moment where the film The Garden of the Finsy Contini uh came to mind, you know, as I was watching my kid playing tennis and part of um, you know, while getting the death toll numbers coming in a part of what that film and the novel have, you know, as a central idea, is this thing where this family that has you know, World War two encroaching on their lives and they will soon perish, continues playing tennis and

continues acting as if everything is is normal, when in fact they don't realize yet that it's that it's war. And it wasn't until you know, recent days that in Rome certainly the people realize, like you know what, it's not cocktailer or anymore, it's it's it's coronavirus time. Yeah, amazing, amazing. Well, it's a terrific piece of reporting. We always count on you, Vernon for these types of really really important stories, and you give it to a straight as always. Vernon Silver,

one of our top reporters. Joining us from Rome. Joe Weber, the editor of Bloomberg Business Week, joining us on the phone from Brooklyn. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Let's head down to Washington now. Josh wynd Grove is their White House correspondent for Bloomberg. Joining us from the White House

a busy day, to say the least. This administration really on the front foot at this point, trying to stem at least the market reaction and provide some reassurance to consumers and businesses out there. Josh tell us the latest obviously the big thing that a lot of people are going onto our check showing up in people's mailboxes. How realistic is this? Where do we well? I think it looks like it's going to slide into the third bill.

The Senate looks poised to vote on the bill that already passed the House while they figure out what to put into the next one. That means, in other words, the big sort of big money items to stimulus stuff, including those checks. Look at they look like they're going to roll into the next piece of legislation and be a few days or more away. What we know the administration is asked for is two rounds of checks, two fifty billion per round, so five billion total sent directly

to people. The exact number sort of dollar value, is both up in the air and looks like it could depend on your situation. For instance, are you lower income, you might get more. Do you have kids? You might get more? So it's still up in the air. There does appear to be bipartisan support on it. Uh. The administration is also asking for about three hundred billion for small businesses to sort of bridge themselves. I guess one

way or another through this if they can. Any one of us walk down the street of a major city right now knows what's coming down the pipe right now for restaurants, bars, shops, all these things, they're facing a bit of a long spring without revenue, and well for bigger corporations, including fifty billion for airlines to try to get them through this. So really a lot of moving parts on this. President is also meeting shortly with nurses on the response and is really ratcheted up the wartime

language today. That's been a bit of a tone change on Trump thing we're at war with this virus. I have to ask you, yeah, we are totally at war. I feel like that is the new kind of how do you get your head around this? The thing I want to ask you, josh Um. I think there's an urgency to get programs done to help individuals, to help certainly the small business community, whether it's restaurants and others. Um. But when we're dealing with big business companies, big publicly

held companies. There are lots of questions, um. You know, I'm sure you've heard the stories about, you know, why do we bail out the airlines that when they got this big tax break, they didn't use it to maybe all the safety net for themselves, but instead they did buy back. So I do wonder what's the balance of an urgency to get things done quickly because there are folks in small businesses that really need some help right now without doing maybe the wrong thing in terms of

rescuing you know, publicly health companies. Yeah, I think absolutely we're going to hear push back on that, um. And I think that's why they're trying to pair it. In other words, it's not just a bail out of the the airlines, um, but also you know, paired with those checks of people. But you know we're all we are hearing Republican opposition UM to that already. And uh, forgive me, I'm just asking there's some new fact that's the world Ye a Canadian airline. My old jobs as suspended service

here as we've been on there. But moral hazard, right, you know, you bail at this industry and then we have another crisis, and then so what stops the government from bailing them out? Like where do you draw the line? Absolutely, absolutely, there's calls, for instance, that if you did stalk buy backs, or if you get a bail out, you should not be able to do further stalk buy backs. And right now Trump really hasn't commented on that, but I think

absolutely could be sensitive to this. One of the weird things in this is, you know, he's talking about five billion to people. That is, that is the president seeking election will sending checks to people, and you might, for instance, think that those checks are absolutely necessary, but also be

uncomfortable with the political dynamic of this. He also doesn't want to, you know, go into an election years looking like he just bailed out a bunch of his buddies, and you know, in in companies that acted irresponsibly in the as of some people by doing these stalk buy backs, and then the cupboard is bare when things took a turn. I mean, anyone who's watching what in particular these airline stocks have done. Boy, you know so, I think I think it's an open question right now, absolutely, and we

just don't have it. We don't have clarity alright. Well, scout has arrived home in Carol Master's house. But I don't questions a bail out. I'm just gonna have some questions. Uh So, Josh, I gotta ask you because you gave me an opening. You know, you and I got to know each other when you were you know, covering Ottawa not Washington, And I do wonder you know the moves today on both sides of the Canadian US border, Uh,

pretty striking. Help us just in in a minute or so sort of synthesize everything that's happening between the two countries, between the two leaders. Yeah, I think Trudeau is able to do things a little more unilaterally than Trump is with the way the government's work there, even though he's got a minority. And what we saw is he rolled out about totally eight about three percent of GDP. What Trump is asking for something a little a little more than that in scale, but whether he get it gets

it remains I'm clear. Trudeau also has existing programs that he can fire money into the economy more quickly than Trump has. So I think Trudeau has more levers and we're seeing him use them more quickly, although later than Trump did. But Trump now is in other words, they're both kind of waking up to it. But Trudeau so far moving more quickly than Trump to contain this. And we saw in particular the closing or restricting of the border to leisure travel today. It's an open question as

to which leader wanted that more. All right, Josh wynd Grove, thank you so much. Great insights from the White House, and uh, tapping your home country as well. Always appreciate your insights. You are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Alright, let's get a sense of what is happening in the markets today, another huge swing. Yanna Barton, co director of Growth Equities at Eaton Vance. She joins us on the phone from Boston. Uh, Janna, what do you make of

a day like today? Well, it's not a good day, lots of red. But I think the most important point is the long term investors. This is certainly the time where you should be sifting through the rubble. The headlines will get progressively worse. Um, you're going to hear of continued shutdown of retail outlets, spikes and incidents like we talked about withdrawal of INKS guidance in a couple of weeks.

But headlines don't make good long term investment decisions. So well, we can't have in a direct precedent to us distancing social distancing. We do have a record of what it looks like on the other side, and consistently long term investors have made money in the market. If you're holding period is greater than days or even weeks. So for long term investors, they're great opportunities and dislocations being presented.

I gotta say, yeah, I'm not a market timer. I don't believe in it, but I've got to say when I'm looking at the S and P five hundred down almost thirty percent this year, that I think, you know, there are folks that they're saying, Man, I could have just you know, put everything in cash earlier in this year when we hit a record, We had a decent

gain already for the year and been safe. Like what is the balance between Because I've Jason, like you know both, Jason, I've done this for a long time, and I understand the idea of long term investing. You can't time the market, can't get in and out. But there is something to be said. Certainly the big investment as will tell you something to capital preservation also before you get smacked in a market downturn like this. Absolutely, and again, you know

you bring up a good point. Listen, I'm a large cap growth manager. My job is to be fully invested in the market. So for folks that are sitting there with you know, excessive holdings that are on the riskier side of the equation, I totally hear what you're saying, and that's the importance of diversification at all times. But I will also say, if you're looking on your equity side of the ledger and you're thinking to yourself, where is the value in the market, you know, versus other

safety assets like fixed income. You look at current SMP levels of twenty undred here, and you've got an earnings yield that is approaching seven percent, approaching an excessive five uh that's significantly greater than ten year. Your treasury is here at one percent. So I hear what you're saying, and I'm not saying all in, which is why you

have to be active. But I think this is when you're deciphering, Hey, within consumer discretionary, I've got stocks that are probably down more than forty five off their fifty two week highs or higher. Maybe there's an opportunity there, and that's all I'm saying. Alright, So, Yana, you know one question that I think a lot of investors have, especially people who are paying attention to the political or the or the governmental and policy headlines, I should say,

is this notion of a bailout. And you know, some industries may get bailed out in all of this, some may not. That's going to be a topic of pretty strenuous debate. It feels like they're in Washington. How do you factor that in when you're starting to think about

sectors and names. I think most of us would agree that the word bailout has sort of a very negative association and now lexicon only because of the last time we went through this, there were only a certain number of industries and companies that we are bailed out, right.

I think what you're seeing here, the fiscal response that is on the common coming in every minute, is really trying to balance that capital side of the equation with as the main street right, individual um individuals that are going to be hard hit if they lose their jobs or can go out and do everyday things right. So it's striking that balance and it will be very difficult. I think companies UM and profitabilities of companies is going

to be extremely important. Cash on hand, access to liquidity UM and credit markets that will continue to be important, both on the corporate side as well on as well as on the individual UM investment side. So UM it's striking that balance. But I will have to say, and I think you will agree, that the policy response, both on the monitory and the fiscal side of the equation has been extraordinary and I think given the market fluidity that we're and and the unfor seen events we're dealing with,

UM has been the right call. So I think we're going to see much more UM and that certainly is the right side of the optimistic ledger that we're watching. Well, but it's hard to be optimistic, you know. Just recapping where we are in terms of the markets right now for everyone in our listeners, S and P five hundred down a hundred nine points. That's a seven point nine

percent decline to the downside. Dow Jones Industrial Average down one thousand, eight hundred seventy four points, down eight point nine percent. Nineteen thousand, three sixty five is where we are on the Dow Jones Industrial average NASDAC down five twenty points. That works out to a decline of seven percent. So I hear what you're saying, and I know you have to invest, you know, for clients. So having said that, I do hear uh I feel like a little bit

of optimism in your voice. Yanna, Does that mean you are buying equity specifically right now? And if you what what are you buying? What are you buying? So UM, As you mentioned, capital preservation is at probably most critical component of what we're doing. We manage a lot of tax managed accounts and that's sort of in our blood right. You're constantly harvesting losses because it offsets gains and the portfolios, and what we're doing is we're upgrading the quality of

the portfolio as well. So we're doing a lot of different pair trades, you know, particularly within the industrial space, where the sicklicality and the and the impact on those companies will be the same because of the macro um driven factors there. So there are a lot of pair traits where we're harvesting losses in something and going into something else. I mentioned the consumer space, we're upgrading the

quality UM. I mean you're looking at large gap quality businesses with solid balance sheets, scale, UM, all of the advantages that we're talking about within the internet space, UM, retail space, restaurants space, you name it. We're in there because we do believe that will make it on the other side and they're going to be even stronger than today.

And I think UM in the healthcare space that has finally been defensive in this downturn, there's also a lot of UM, a lot of opportunities that are brewing on the biotech space. Again, as a as an investor, I think by nature, I recognize that there is a sense of optimists that all of us must have because if we're investing in these equities today, we have to believe that tomorrow is better than today, and maybe that tomorrow is you know, a few days out from like T

plus one. That being said, the secular growth stories that I've shared with you guys in the past, they're not going to go away. I mean now we're going to be shopping luss or more online and look at look at the implication of our daily lives on cybersecurity, remote networking, all of those things. That's that's only going to intensify and the companies that are participating in these secular growth

trends are going to thrive. They're going to thrive, and those are the opportunities we're trying to step up to because a lot of these names with higher growth profiles of selling it at a multiple you haven't seen in years. So by what right now? I can go into specifics for stocks, but I mentioned healthcare, So a lot of men device companies while they are being hit by elective procedures that are um, you know, being postponed. The flip side of it is think about you know, next gen

sequencing companies. By the way, the coronavirus was sequenced in a matter of weeks, not months as in previous stars, so companies that are providing that intel. When you think about robotic surgery again, less than five percent of all surgeries today are performed by these robotic instruments, and that's only going to increase because of the safety profile UM. And then many pharmaceutical companies that are going to be the answers to perhaps the biotech warfare that might be

you know, the next sort of warfare we're fighting. We're in one today, right, So examples, Yeah, I'm interested to hear you say that, Yana, because you know this whole notion of and we've been talking about it a lot over the past hour or so, this notion that the president is now talking about wartime footing in many ways.

I mean, we're closing border as we obviously are not in a militaristic footing at this moment, but you do have to wonder about I would think defense and an aerospace at this point right absolutely, And that's one area within the industrial space. Interestingly enough, there has been the hardest I mean obviously, UM, you know, if you look at a cup weighted profile of those companies, many of

them are off over. So I mean, I think if you think about aerospace and defense, you know, if I were to ask any of your listeners, are you're ever going to fly again? Most of them will say yes, maybe not tomorrow or in two weeks, but I am pretty sure we're going to get on the plane again. And um, in terms of defense, I mean, it's I think just the definition of what it means to be UM. You know, next gen defense company is going to change

perhaps outside of just the industrial space. So that's UM, that's one area that we're particularly keen on and I already touched on the consumer, but it's broad based and listen, it doesn't feel good. I mean the stats that you meant and I'm looking at them unfortunately tick bite tick. But you know, the greatest investment opportunities that presented when it feels the worst. So it's time to get uncomfortable with feeling the way we do and um again gradually um,

you know, nibble um at these at these levels. Yeah. No, good to hear that um optimism at least in terms of the outlook. Janna, Thank you so much. Janna Barton, she's co director of Growth Equities at EAT Advance. On the phone from Boston. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. You can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You can also listen to our radio show every weekday at two pm Eastern only on Bloomberg Radio