Fed Looks at Possible U.S. Digital-Coin

You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. So Tim totally bummed me out by talking about the latest variant. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm sorry, Bush. Gotta brush up on your Greek alphabet, so you know, start practicing funny not funny whatever the next letter is. Lot's going on, so let's get to it.

Um And just for those of you keeping track, as we are always at bloom byg Global Cases, when it comes to COVID top three hundred sixty six point nine million deaths past five point six million, and the vaccine more than ten billion shots and ministered Tim around the world, Well, let's go to Dr Ian lust Bader, clinical professor of Medicine at n y U Lane and the Medical Center. He joins us on the phone from New York City,

as he does on most Fridays. Dr Let's bet I want to start with what Caroline I were talking about just a couple of minutes ago. This omicron sub variant be A dot two, appearing to be even more contagious than the original fast spreading strain. That's according to UK health authorities. We do know though, that vaccine booster shots remain an effective shield. How are you reading into this? Well, we talked about the possibility of more mutations and this

O macron variant definitely Happy Friday. By the way, guys, thank you is a is yay we got here, we got here, we made It is definitely a split off of the original O macron or maybe sort of coevolved with it. The genetics are are slightly different than uh some of the other mutations that we've seen. The good news is it appears that people who have had O macron will be resistant to the b A two variant.

Uh So that's good news. It also it does seem to be maybe slightly more contagious, and we can talk about what that means, but certainly not more lethal. So overall this does appear as viruses overall tend to mutate, tend to be a little more infectious, tend to be a little less lethal because viruses are more successful if they don't kill their host. So I don't think this is a meaningfully worrisome development in a way, not completely surprising.

We're seeing some uh indications in California, Texas, Washington of the B two strain, more common in Europe, in Denmark and certainly in the United Kingdom. UH. And it may replace just as O macron replaced delta. The B A two strain may replace h O macron. But at this point it is not killing more people. And basically the same approach that we're using, whether it's a vaccines, you know,

masks are very reasonable. We have a medication ever sheld for I mean to compromise patients, which is becoming somewhat more available. It's two shots their monoclonal antibodies. So for people who are really at risk, they should talk their to their doctor about this because that is available for prevention, not just treatment. How are you doing? You still sound still just a cold or I'm I'd say I'm n bettery voice still not a hundred percent. Uh, it's interesting.

We were not really seeing sort of long COVID symptoms from omicron. But but who knows, you know, with UH will have to track these things further out. I'm feeling fine. What about you? How are you doing? I'm fine. I never had any symptoms. Um, I had a million negative tests, including my PCR test which I took on the same day that I took a rapid that that rapid came back positive. Maybe you had Who knows? Tim? And Dr

Lester thinks I know. I don't think I had it, but I don't know, and I'm continue to get tests. You know, now, i'd just be careful, so um, hey, I wouldn't. I wouldn't worry at this point. I'm not right. I gotta just live life. We all do, but just carefully. Hey, do you think it's a given ian that we're going to get a fourth vaccine dose booster at some point?

There aren't fering it into Israel And certainly for people who are really at risk, the elderly having significant problems, I mean, no compromised, it probably is not going to be harmful. It's very unclear. Four doses of alpha for really O macron or b A two very unclear how protective it will be and how long that protection will last. So if you're at risk for ninety days, think about things like eversheld, which is astras eneca, think about early

packs LVID. We do have that of available for people who are at risk who do who test positive and have mild to moderate symptoms. So there are various options available. The fourth vaccine um I think is less well proven, certainly than paxlovid, which lowers hospitalization and severe illness, you know, so that is certainly very reassuring. Hey, I'm wondering dr less better about masks because we did learn that in

San Francisco. They have removed it into our mask mandate for offices and gems that still people have to prove that they're up to date on vaccinations and boosters. That starts February one. Uh, what do you think that's gonna the spell for New York City, New York State, and other areas of the country. So again, depending on the kind of mask, how you wear it. Uh, there are so many variables that it's very hard to really get

hard data, you know on this. I think certainly for kids in school, we we do think maybe that's had a negative impact on socialization and other areas. I think if you're overall healthy and there's no mask mandate, if you're insecure, certainly where it. If you're someone at risk, if you're immuno compromised, if you're elderly, I would take every measure possible to reduce risk, which would include wearing a mask, even though we know they're not all right. Well,

take care. Always nice to check in with you and stay well. Dr Ia las Beta, Clinical Professor of Medicine at n y U Lango Medical Center. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. So among the most read on the Bloomberg Today. It is a Bloomberg exclusive exclusive. It's about how Wall Street had a briefing from the Body Administration on possible sanctions against Russia. Tim Yeah. The story

written by Jenny Stain, Catherine Dougherty, and Hannah Levitt. Hannah joins us now. She's Finance reporter at Bloomberg News. She's on the phone from New York City, Hannah, you and our colleagues right that city Bank of America JP Morgan. They're among the firms that are involved in discussions the US and allies are hoping to prevent a Russian invasion of Ukraine. What did you learn and and and really take us into it. Hey, you guys, thank you for

having me today. Happy Friday. Um. So what we're what we heard and what we reported is that, um, the Biden administration held discussions were really consulting uh, these big banks to make sure that you know, any any sanctions wouldn't um disrupt the global financial system. And so what we're looking at here is Russia is really integrated into

the global financial system. UM. So it's less you know, how will study group be impacted or how will there be more going to be impacted or something like that, and really more so, uh making sure that the government understands the full range of consequences for you know, any actions or set of actions that they may take. Well. And it's interesting too because I think you think about the global banks and I do wonder about the relationship

they have with maybe some of the different markets. Uh, what is kind of the ties between Russia and the US Banking Committee industry. Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, so like, of the three biggest US banks, City Group is the only one that even breaks out it's exposure um to Russia. And you know, those those assets are really just I think it was point three percent of its total assets. So it's not you know, you're not talking some kind of like outsized exposure on behalf of

the US banks here, um. But that's not really the issue. It's more, you know, the the interconnectiveness of of the financial system as a whole, and when you're looking at things like you know, the Swift payment system, which is considered the nuclear option here, but if you cut off Russia from something like that, it's how does that impact, you know, the way business gets done in the way

that thinks facilitate that globally. That's a really good point, especially when we you know, you think about how all the conversations we've had about the global supply chain, and there's a global financial supply chain in terms of how things work around the world. The other thing I think about is I wonder how the banks are thinking about Europe's relationship with Russia, whether it's an economic impact of things to to break down. You know that is Europe

obviously more directly impacted in the United States in that form. Yeah, well definitely. And you know all of these big banks have global exposure, and when you're looking at I mean I think I was just reading that. I think when uh, when Western nations threatened Russia's access to swift back in, one of their finance ministers said it could produce Russia's

GDP by like five percent in a year. So you know, when when you think about these consequences, um, you know, not just in Russia, but then still over effects to you know, those countries that are closer geographically like you just mentioned. Um, then you're looking at that question of you know, global growth and how that impacts the banks.

And also you know when you think about your talking about volatility of the markets, which this week has been you know, crazy as it is, but then you think about, you know, if if there's all this uncertainty around that, will people be on the sidelines and all of those occasions. Well, and there's the traditional big banks, right, and then there's also like a master card. I know you guys cite

the CEO in your story. I mean they talk about it being a substantial and strategically important market for them. Mm hmm, yeah. I mean that that really goes back to the whole the payments thing, in the payment system of the whole. So what do what do banks and financial institutions do now now that they've been briefed? How do they how do they prepare for such a situation. I mean, you know that it's it's a back and forth.

It's not um. You know, I think that the the administration my senses, wants to learn from the banks as well and the people whose job it is at the banks to understand the potential outcomes. So you know, there's there's some back and forth there. But you know, at the end of the day, banks have had to deal with sanctions before UM and that's really the point of these conversations is for them too, you know, be able to determine they had forward as well as the administration.

And real quickly just got about twenty five seconds. Who's more worried the bide administration about spillover or banks more worried about spillover. That's a good question, you know, I do that that's a great question to be continued. Hey, great reporting and it's a Bloomberg exclusive and it is among the most read on the Bloomberg and what's been a crazy cra cray week kind of love it. Thanks so much, Finance Report ut Bloomberg News on the phone

in New York City. You know what I love about what she said to is just it's a reminder when we have spoken so much about the connect connectivity between supply chains, but the financial supply chain is so connected. Yeah, and it's not something that you can really visualize, but

it absolutely is. I mean, think about the fact that all these companies and their earnings are talking about cross border transactions and we take it for granted, right that this stuff just works so seamlessly, and that's not always the case. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio.

In the new issue Bloomberg Business Week gets out and in it you'll find a story about one crypto company, it's founder and why regulators are keeping an eye on it. The story by Zeke Fox, financial investigations reporter at Bloomberg News. He joins us now to talk about his story. It's about Celsius also joining us as Joel Webber, editor at Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us on the access line

from Brooklyn. Celsius is eighteen percent yields on crypto. They're tempting and they're drawing scrutiny, Joelso, is is Celsius a bank? It takes your crypto? It's not regulated as a bank. What is Celsius sounds great? And yields um definitely catch attention. And for for a long time it's been people who are willing to lend crypto to Celsius and get those returns um and increasingly it's making uh some regulators take notice too. Uh, Zeke, how do you get a team

percent yields? So the pitch is really compelling. It's the celsius Is founder Alex Muschinsky. He says, Listen, it's not hard to get a team percent yields. It's actually the big banks are robbing you. They take your deposits, they go out and invest them. They make lots of money and they but they don't give you the profits. Meanwhile, if you send your crypto to celsie Is, it'll go out and invest it and it'll pay you five percent eight percent even depending on which crypto you send them.

Well okay, so so what do they then do with your crypto? Yeah, I mean that is the question. Celsius says that they have these profitable ways of using the crypto, the main one being that they can take the coins that you sent to Celsius and lend them to big traders like hedge funds, who will use them to make

really profitable bets. And these traders they have trouble borrowing money elsewhere, so they're willing to pay a lot to celsie it and Celsius can keep like a little sliver for itself and pay out the rest to the depositors. So it sounds like so it sounds like a win win pretty much. I mean, the when I heard the pitch the it, I mean, that was my question, Like

what's the catch? Because in general, if someone is paying you a high interest rate, it's because you know they're taking some sort of risk with your with your money. And that's what I set out to investigate, because while Celsius says it's really transparent, it doesn't give out any sort of financial statement that shows exactly what it's doing with all the money that it's collecting, and it's not

regulated like a bank. Even though the basic proposition is pretty similar to a bank, it's not really regulated at all. Um But in recent months a bunch of state securities regulators have started looking into Celsius, and so has the Securities and Exchange Commission, which is saying that maybe by doing what it does, it's breaking the law and offering people what are essentially investment products that the SEC should

be overseeing. So if if that were to happen, if the SEC then does have to oversee these products, does that somehow ruin Celsius's business model or could they change their business models so they adhere to regulatory Uh well, I guess it here to regulations. You know, it's a good question. I mean, they've been growing so fast. They got up to billion in assets last year, more than quadrupled. I don't see why it couldn't go on with regulation.

But the regulators would want to know exactly what they're doing with all the money, and they might have to disclose it to users. Um So, I spoke with a lot of former employees of Celsius, and what I found was that the company is definitely taking some risks with this with this money. So if there was more transparency, it's unclear how the users would react. So so as he talked to us more about Mashinsky because he's got u sort of an online you know, you mentioned those assets.

How many people are watching him and tuning into his programming where he where he's you know, basically pitches his services. Yeah, I mean he's the founder and he's like the number one pitchman for the company. He's at every cryptoconference, he live streams every week. And I mean, just one example of something he said is the beauty of Celsius. Of what Celsius managed to do is that we deliver yield. We pay it to the people who would never be able to do it themselves. We take it from the rich,

and we beat the index. That's like going to the Olympics and getting fifteen medals in fifteen different fields. After he said it, he dabbed and brushed off his shoulders. Um, and he's, uh, he talks like this. It sounds like he he makes Celsius sound like kind of like a multi level marketing type business opportunity more than like a bank account. But he has all these fans like Celsius users. He calls them selsie ms. He says, there's more than

a million of them. These users will right in and be like I put my life savings in Celsius, like I quit my job. I'm making so much money off Celsia. UM. And it seems like Maschinsky really feeds off this energy. And he's, uh, he's fifty six, which is old by crypto standards, and he's he likes to say that he calls Celsius money over i P, as if it was like, uh, the revolutionary technology voiceover i P that, like you said,

phone calls over the Internet. And he likes to say that he invented voiceover i P, which would make him like a really important inventor in the history of the internet. Um. However, I looked into this. I talked with a bunch of people who worked on voiceover i P and they say Maschinsky did not invent it. That he he did have an early voiceover i P company, but he didn't invent the technology. Um as. And it makes you wonder write

with someone else to kind of put that out there. Hey, you did talk to, um those that were formally employed at that company. I mean, I guess it's a great profile and a deep dive into maybe a company people don't know about. What was your takeaway after your reporting and writing about this? To me, I think that, as a do professor told my co writer Joel Light, there's no free lunch. If if Celsius is paying you a lot of money, they have to be taking some risk

with it to earn those returns. And maybe you trust Celsius to take your crypto and invest it, but maybe you want some more information about exactly what they're doing with with the money before you decide whether they're to invest with them. I mean, I found that they had given at least hundreds of millions of dollars to a guy to invest in Defy, So they were like taking the user's deposits and sticking them on these de five platforms.

And the top money manager for DeFi left in a dispute that wasn't disclosed, and they lost a bunch of money in a hack. Right, So it seems like you know, you're definitely there's some risk involved. Just let the depositor or I guess not depositor be aware as wide open. Hey, we gotta run Seek, Thank you so much. Seek Fox. He's financial investigations reporter at Bloomberg News. Check out his story.

It's in the finance section of the new issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine, on newsstands, on the Bloomberg and online at Bloomberg dot com slash business Week. Joe Weber, have a great weekend, editor of Bloomberg Business Week. Catch Joeb, Me and Tim. We're on the weekend show up Bloomberg Business Week and catch out on Bloomberg Radio at eight am come Saturday. This is Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim

Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. We just talked about Goldman saying that investors should be skeptical of the narrative that rising adoption of cryptocurrencies must translate into higher prices to we have that going on, and it's kind of good to keep that in mind when we heard what was it about a week ago the Fed taking a key step in weighing the creation of its own digital currency UH, a move that the FETE said could help ensure the U S dollars dominance as the central Bank rapples really

with the fast growing fast growing private crypto markets and coins issued by other nations. Right, there's this whole thing going on globally. Yeah, let's talk about it with Dorothy G. O b. She's of council at Jones Day. She joins us on the phone from New York City. Dorothy, how are you hi, Carol? Tim, thanks very much for having me on. Great to have you, Yeah, really great to have you here. Let's talk about the FED considering a

central bank digital currency. UM, what are some I want to start with the pros here, because this is something that you look at closely. You have a good understanding of this. Why would the central bank want to do this? Yeah, Tim, it's a great question. And UM, so as you as you mentioned, the FED has come out with this report, uh last week, and it's going to be examining specific use cases and UM, you know, both the benefits and

the challenges of issuing a central bank digital currency. I think that, um, the pros or the potential pros of CBDC central bank digital currency really depend on, uh, the particular use case, UM, the way in which the CBDC could be used in a given set of circumstances. So, UM, some potential benefits could be uh the the greater efficiency and in payment systems, more efficiencies and cross border payments, UM, better tools to fight financial crime UM, and and also

the potential again for greater financial inclusion. Those are some of the benefits or the potential pros of a CBDC. I think, UM, you know what the FED is doing now is um examining these potential use cases and trying to think through whether a CBDC is the right tool um to realize some of those uh some of those issues. So what would a cbd C do you to the average Joe and Jane on main street? Well, UM, again you know there there are a couple of different models

of a CBDC. So one is could be institutional only and so that would be for use um between you know, payments between financial institutions. So um, not much impact to the average consumer on the street there UM any efficiencies there would be realized really between the institutions. Now, if there were a retail CBDC or one um uh in which the public could participate, UM, you know that could that could again have the potential for greater financial inclusions.

So for example, UM, people might be less uh likely UM to go and cash their check with UM, you know, and pay high fees uh um uh for paid a lenders or other you know payment services UM. And the potential for those kinds of um of benefits to the consumer uh population, I think is one of the things that the FED is looking at in thinking about CBDCs. I will say it's a very important time because as the FED has put out this report, they have put out a call for input from the public, from UM,

elected officials, from other stakeholders UM. And so to the extent that people have a view or an interest or a you know, a voice in this discussion, now is the time to get involved. Now is the time to make your views known to the Federal Reserve. They've opened this period for comment uh and so people with an interest here should take advantage of that the comments or UM. You know, the FED is going to be asking for comments by may. Hey, Dorothy, I'm wondering because you you know,

spend so much time in this space. Well, what do you think the right move is from the FED? If you were advising the fat Yeah, I think the Fed is doing exactly what it should do. It is um taking its time, you know, the FED is is certainly not the first in this process. There are other countries and other central banks around the world who have been looking at this, uh, the issue of central bank digital currency, and are further along the road, uh, you know, than

than the US is. But I think the FED is acting appropriately. They are being very deliberative, They're being very careful, um, and trying to gain a broad consensus. Um. And you know, the intent is not for the FED to sort of act unilaterally here. And in fact, they've said that they will not move forward without broad consensus and broad by in from the public, elected officials and other stakeholders. And

so that's the right move I think. Um, you know, they they as others have said, and I agree with, they don't have to be the first, but they just don't want to be the last. Well. And that's the point, right, I mean, there's no kind of ignoring or looking back. You have to look forward at this point because other nations are moving forward, and I think about something like China, right, the US has to keep up. Well, that's right. China is a very interesting example. Um. They are well down

the road to the digital lawn. Um. And you know, have a pilot and um uh and have been made a lot of progress there. Another interesting example is Sweden. UM and Sweden is interesting because the you know, the percentage of transactions that actually use cash physical cash UM is much lower than it has been in the past. That's not UM. You know, there are the same parallels with the decline and the use of cash. It doesn't

translate exactly here to the US. So different countries have different motivations for looking at this, looking at the issue of CBDCs and and what the potential benefits might be. But but I do think the FED is UM is taking the right course here in in being very deliberative UM and UM and really looking at all of the issues for what could be a very significant impact and

change to our financial system and our financial infrastructure. All right, well, great to get your inputting added to the narrative that we've been having in the conversation. UM, Dorothy, thank you so much. Dorothy go Ob, she's of counsel at Jones Day on the phone in New York City. Interesting, really interesting stuff. Don't want to be the first, don't need to be the first, but don't want to be the last, right exactly, all right, you're listening to Bloomberg Business. We

kids Friday and this is Bloomberg. Yeah, but you let me drive? No, no, no, who's right? Please, I'll do gravels. I want to drive. It's good question drive. This is the Drive to the Clobell on Bloomberg Radio. Just got about ten minutes left in today's trading session, getting ready to wrap up the trading day. We are seeing buying into the clothes. We are at our best levels of the session, more than two percent gain on the SMPS Charlie mentioned two seven percent higher on the NASDAC. Thank

you Apple, but also a lot of other names. And the dad right now up about one and a half percent him. So we're definitely seeing um bullishness into the closing bell. He certainly think you Apple, and you're right to say a lot of other names because of the more than five stocks, because there are more than six or high or only seventy seven lower right now. Quite a change from what we saw earlier in the day. That's an interesting tone, uh and sentiment going into the weekend.

So let's see what our next guest has to say. Dave Donna Beatie, and he's chief investment Officer of CIBC Private Wealth Management. They've got about ninety six billion in assets under management. He joins us once again on the phone from Baltimore. So, David, has been quite a week in a year where we have kind of had quite a week after week after week. To see potentially a positive close on this Friday, in a week where we had the FED meeting and a lot of volatility in

the markets and also some big earnings. How do you read it? Well, I think it's it's certainly good to see up a strong bid to close the week here as the the SMP kind of struggles to a draw for the week. Uh yeah, I think certainly the uh you know, Apple earnings reports, sort of the bellwall, whether of bell Weather is reporting so strong helps and uh you know, perhaps some some short covernment going on. So

but but still a tough start to the year. Okay. So, so you're not saying necessarily that it's a bullish sign that the sentiment is changing, No, I don't think yet. I think we're at a back and forth market here. We've had a uh you know, a pretty meaningful pullback, which you know, I think makes some sense if if you look at the drivers of the great bull market rather than we had in one when the market more

than doubled. We had these, you know, three incredibly strong tail winds monetary policy, fiscal policy, and a huge earnings recovery. And you know those tail winds are evaporating right that the FETE is marching toward rate hikes. There's not gonna be any more fiscal relief pack of just coming. And earnings are coming in fine here on the fourth quote of reports, but we know they've been slow this year.

So those tail ones just on the strong, and we started from a level of fairly high evaluation, so a bit of a pullback is not terribly surprising. You sell like somebody who's seen a fair amount of market cycles, and understand, the market goes up in the moody and right, and the market goes down. And we all love to who have seen a fair amount of market cycles like to make comparisons to other moments of either volatility or

instability or big selling or big buying. Um, how, I don't know, how do you kind of put this market cycle in perspective to some of the other past market cycles that we've seen. Are we still in this market cycle? I know we've had technically corrections. But how do you see it? I think I think what you look for in terms of cycle comparisons is because it's very relevant to where we're headed. How do markets behave when the

FED pivots from very easy to less easy? Right when when I go from a period of very low interest rates to saying we actually need to start to tighten. And um, we learned a couple of things from from history. First, markets are more volatile in general, both stock and bond markets, and we certainly are seeing that already. Um. You know, the record for the equity market, though, is that it does reasonably well during the early phase of FED rap tightening.

You heard the old adage it's not the first FED hike to worry about it, it's the last one. A lot of truths to that, and the numbers bear it out. So the FED doing an interest rate hike or even a few this year does not mean that we're headed for a bear market in the short term. We actually think the bull market U gets knocked around a lot this year, but but but survives mainly because we're going

to continue to have economic growth and decennings growth. But um, you know, corrections are just going to be a part of the landscape, which they of course, who are not last year Dave, How do we know when we hit the bottom in one of these corrections, if the sell off can and use after this week you be honestly, I mean, the truth is, you never know when they

when the absolute bottom is. I think what you have to do is, as a stock picker, um is, have you have your candidate lists companies you'd love to own for the next the next three to five years, uh and and the price at which it makes sense to own them. And you know, one of the things that happens when you get these market pullbacks is stocks you didn't think you'd able to be able to buy at the right price suddenly you can. So I think it

makes sense for investors to be to be opportunistic. M And I guess I would say if if sentiment gets too barish literally where people are starting to price in a bear market, that isn't a buying opporgin because I don't think that's how things are going to transpire. Yeah, it does feel like to some extent market cycles, I don't know, especially when they dip back, that we we recover much more quickly. I don't know. Maybe I'm maybe

I'm just reading wrongly into some thing. But how do you see it if we do ultimately to a recession. We're watching Germany right Europe watching it, uh, in terms of kind of getting very close to that point. Um, do you think it is something that is protracted or who knows? One of the reasons why it seems like we recover more quickly off of rough periods or bear markets is that um. While the FED may not admit it, they are more responsive to market conditions and market behavior um.

And and so we've tended to see the FED come in more, more quickly and more dramatically to try and provide liquidity to markets, and which begins the healing process. And we're sort of headed towards the the other end of the telescope there. Now the FED feels there's too much liquidity in the system, and inflation numbers bear that out. This year, you know, the way in which they withdraw that liquidity UM is going to be key to the market being able to continue to to put through. Like

I said, it's going to lead to volatility. Inflation is not going away, UM. But we're starting this FED tightening cycle from deeply negative real interest rate. So there's a way to go before policy is actually restrictive on credit. And well when do you know when that is? And again that's another timing question. But you know, you did tell our producers that the first FED hike is not a problem for equities. It's the last one that's that's the trouble. So just in thirty seconds when what do

you mean by that? Well, just that at some point, as the Fed continues to tighten um, they reach a tipping point where they begin to uh, you know, lead to money being costly, that the price of money goes up UM and begins to restrict the flow of credit. And that's you know, the old saying that the um you know, bull markets aren't killed by time they're they're murdered by the Fed. Um. Again, we're a long way away from that, but we have to watch the pace

of FED activity. It's not an exact science. The FED will tell you that as well. Their do it, and it takes a while for to kick in and and it's very easy to uh potentially overdo it. Hey, Dave, thank you so much. Nice to get your thoughts Dave. Donna Beady and he's chief investment officer at CIBC Private Wealth Management on the phone from Baltimore. Thanks for listening

to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News.