Deliveroo’s Debut Shunned by Investors Over Labor Practices

or Bloomberg dot Com. You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. During a White House COVID nine Team Response Team briefing earlier today, CDC Director Rochelle will Lyndsky explained why Americans need to remain vigilant in fighting the virus check it out. This is a critical moment in our fight against the pandemic. As we see increases in cases, we can't afford to

let our guard down. We are so close, so very close to getting back to the everyday activities we all miss so much. And that, of course, was ADC Director Rochelle will Lanski earlier today. This as there's many virus and vaccine headlines again, and we just had one just a few minutes ago, crossing the Bloomberg France starting a four week nationwide lockdown on Saturday. That is coming from

their leader at Emmanuel mccrowna. And of course just a reminder that there's parts of the world that are still seeing um the numbers really troubling. Yeah, despite the progress that we've made here in the United States, much of the world remains unvaccinated. Dr Ian LUs Bader is clinical Associate Professor of medicine at n y U Lanego in a medical center, joining us now on the phone from New York City. Dr LUs Bader, it it's always great when you join us. Thank you so much for taking

the time. Let's get right into it and talk about what's happening in Europe, as we just learned from Carol France starting a four week nationwide lockdown on Saturday. The big question I have is is this the direction that that we're going in here, considering we're starting to see cases creep up as well? I don't think so. And Happy Wednesday, Tim and call hopeball as well. Definitely, there's a number of countries around the world that are seeing

a rise. Fortunately we're not seeing a big rise in the United States, but and we've done fairly well. A lot further to go in terms of vaccinations, but frances uh in a bit of trouble, Poland, part of the UK, and certainly other countries like Brazil, even Mexico. So we're seeing a number of areas and I think they will relate to probably one of three or four different reasons. One is vaccine availability. We've been fairly fortunate here that

we've purchased a large number of different vaccines. They're all fairly effective, and I think the availability now is even greater. So I think we've had that many countries in Europe have been either hesitant to take vaccines, and some of them relate to I'll take this vaccine, but not that you know, another vaccine there is suspicious about astra Zeneca or gsk or or fiser has a preference. So um part of it is um, the availability of it is

vaccine hesitancy. Part of it as a lifestyle if there are more social country and they're not really following barriers six ft and so forth, if they're more social. But also some new strains that be one one, seven has a higher transmissibility. So if you're dealing with um a population that has not had a lot of vaccine, and you've got a variant that is more transmissible, in other words, one person can infect instead of two or three, potentially four or five or six people, then you're going to

have many more problems. So mm hmmm, are we likely to have a fourth wave because of people who might not be taking the vaccine, are putting it off, and because we're seeing a COVID nineteen strain that as it mutates, are very As we see the variants and they're higher, as you said, a higher transmissibility, are we likely then to have a fourth wave? Well, I think that's what the authorities are worried about, and I we could do a better job at addressing people's vaccine hesitancy. There are

people who who are concerned about taking it. There are a lot of rumors unfortunately on social media and on the internet that are really misinforming people. And I don't think it's enough to say we have to keep our guard up and we have to you know, get everyone vaccinated. I think we need to directly address some of the concerns in terms of safety. Uh, and in terms, we just had FISER data that showed very high efficacy in

kids twelve to fifteen. I think we need to broaden our availability and really kind of address populations that are concerned, why they're concerned, and can we have the experts UH from the CDC or other infectious disease specialists kind of really spell out what people are worried about and why those concerns really are not so valid? Dr Spader? Are we still seeing people change their thoughts around getting the vaccine in the sense of what we saw early on

December January, especially with with with healthcare workers. Maybe they were hesitant, but then people inside their social circles insteade, their families started getting the vaccine their friends, and then that sort of change the way that they thought about it. Is that still happening very much so when I think you've hit on a very important point, which is people need to share with others that they've had the vaccine, that they did well with it. There are always some

mild side effects. I think some people are concerned about, you know, potentially longer term UH side effects which were really not seeing um or this report about clots and so forth, which really didn't pan out either. And I think the best way to reduce vaccine hesitancy is to have people in a peer group socioeconomic group, your friends basically say hey, I did fine, you should get it as well. Uh, And we're not seeing that as much as we should. We talked about the Fiser vaccine it

protection for kids ages twelve to fifteen. That was in a study that the company released the data for early this morning. Dr LUs better. It doesn't get any better than right, yes, really encouraging data and in order to really reach herd immunity, which unfortunately is the only reasonable way we're going to end the pandemic. I know many people talk about therapeutics and so forth, but really having to have people get the infection and then treat them

is is a very cumbersome way. So vaccines really are the key. And having a efficacy in this young population that is certainly exposed to in social settings and so forth, um and can harbor the virus who have a little

less symptoms. Sometimes this really is key data and hopefully we'll reassure people in terms of safety, certainly efficacy, and I think we need to ramp this up and and ultimately distry rebut it that's really the key thing is getting the vaccine eligibility for really more people and ultimately younger people is the way to to move forward. Hey speaking a key data research also, I think it was

out just this week to uh, there's a study. It's kind of a growing part of evidence suggesting that the vaccines, these are the vaccines by maderna advisor, not only reduce the risk of getting seriously ill with covedanteam, but can prevent catching the virus in the first place. In other words, I we can't be hosts even if we're vaccinated. That's

also key. I agree with you completely. You know, many people are concerned or one of the excuses for vaccine hesitancy is saying, look, even if I get the vaccine, I could still harbored in my nasal firings and transmitted And that never really made much sense to me, because once you have antibodies, it's much less likely. Of course, you've got blood flow in antibodies in your in your nose and nas of fairings. So you know, there's probably a few people who may have that, you know with

studies where they swab you after a vaccine. But the evidence to me is building greater and greater that the vaccines will really make a big difference also in decreasing transmission and acquisition of getting it. But yet, for example, we have about twenty five hundred people in the US that have had a vaccine about we're growing about thirty three out of a hundred in the UK, but only about eight out of a hundred, only about eight percent in Europe, which I think is why we're seeing this

rise in cases. Well, we're seeing the rising cases here. We have to address that. Well, I want to talk about that a little bit because in the United Kingdom, where the vaccination campaign is a few weeks even a month ahead of where we are in the United States, um, Israel significantly ahead of the United States as well, cases

and deaths have really really dropped. When does that happen here? Like, what do we know about the inflection point that happened in those countries and when that starts to happen in the US. Well, the numbers in Israel are are certainly encouraging, are closer to like seventy percent of the population or

seventy eight out of a hundred. So that's really when you have heard immunity, and and and the numbers show that it's hard to know here because part of her immunity are people who have already had the virus, and we think those antibodies do stay around for a while. So I think our numbers, I think our herd immunity is higher than the I'm guessing we're probably closer to fifty. And I think that that number is close to the sixty or seventy that we really need in order to

sort of break viral transmission. So I think we're close, But I think, as the CDC says, we're not there yet. Um hopefully in the next few months and well before the summer, hopefully we will reach those numbers where we will not have to have the same restrictions. But and do we know how long we stay protected from bodies vaccine means? Is it months? Is it a year? We don't And I think that's a really good question, And people ask me that question too, They say, well, why

should I even take the vaccine? I don't know how long it's protective. We do have studies out certainly six to now going on maybe twelve months that do suggest there is protection and people may need a booster. We don't really know, uh, And certainly if there are more variants, is possible you may need a new strain booster. But I wouldn't really worry about that at this point because

it's hard to measure T cells. And we do think that immunity may be longer even than than antibodies, but the antibody levels are high and they do last for many months at least. Look, I gotta say, I'm not so concerned about the idea of getting a booster. It's it's what I do each year for a flu shot, So why not just throw the flu shot in with a booster for the COVID shot. It's and look, I know that not everybody gets a flu shot, but perhaps that will change. Do we get T cells out of

these vaccines just quickly? We think we do, yes, absolutely, and that probably provides much longer lasting immunity than the actual tighter of the inner bodies. But with all the studies, the antibody tigers are high, higher than the natural infection and last even longer. So I think there's a lot of good data and we need to address that. Well. Always good fun, let's talk about the lab lee listen

always good information for me. I was thinking, I can't wait to where we're in a world where we can just go wherever we want with Dr LUs Bader, because we discover so many different Maybe do it in the studio, and do it in the studio, all right, Dr Ian LUs Bader, Stay safe, Be well, Clinical Associate Professor Medicine at n y U Landgoing Medical Center. On the phone in New York City. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio.

So we are hyper focused on President Biden's tune, a quarter twillion dollar US infrastructure plan. He is expected to announce it in about I think ninety minutes from now, and reporting for Bloomberg Business Week is national course by that Josh Green, He wrote and notes that the infrastructure boon risks adding to the President's immigration woes. It's another side of the story that we hadn't thought about. Yeah, and like everything else, it is much more nuanced than

meets the eye. Joel Weber is editor at Bloomberg Business Week, joining us on the remote from Brooklyn. Amanda Colson Hurley as Politics editor for Bloomberg Business week Joel Josh makes a great point in this piece, makes a lot of great points that the focus really has been on on on one thing, this idea of a surge at the border. But there's a reason why people are coming across the United States border with Mexico. And at the same time,

it's not necessarily as many children as people think. Yeah, I thought what Josh did that was really interesting when in this was just like take it sort of two steps further than than at least my brain was was already going, which was, you know, this infrastructure bill that we expect Biden to announce big money. It will mean that there will be a big boost to the economy. It also means that the humanitarian crisis, immigration uh struggles that we've seen on the border could only get amplified

because of that. So so Amanda's bring you in. Um, how how is Josh able to connect those dots? Yeah, I mean the way that Josh connects them is really looking at um the you know, economic prospects in both

the US and in Mexico. UM. One of the Yeah, one of the things that's kind of been missed or overlooked in some of the coverage of what's going on at the border is that although there's been this um quite pronounced increase in uh families seeking asylum, there's also been a steady increase since last year in the number of uh, you know, just kind of soul soul adults not traveling with families, not seeking asylum, just crossing the

border for for you know, economic opportunity, um. And a lot of those adults traveling alone are are also Mexican. And so what you know, what Josh says is that, um, you know a lot of these migrants are drawn to uh, you know, opportunities in the US as the US recovers from the pandemic. Uh, you know, with vaccination going pretty well here, with jobs coming back, it's it's an attractive prospect. And Mexico, you know, on the other hand, has been hit very hard by COVID, as has the US, but uh,

you know, vaccination is not nearly so far along. Uh. And also the Mexican government has not provided uh, you know, a generous relief at all. Uh. It's taken more of a kind of austerity approach. So those kind of factors, I think, for for some perspective, migrants would would tip the balance to uh, you know, maybe maybe trying to go to the US. This is one of those stories, as you said at the top, Tim, it's like just the facts and that this whole idea of this data.

Two of those apprehended recently are single adults crossing the border from Mexico into the US Mexicans. The thing that's interesting about this, Amanda to first of all, is getting those statistics and kind of understanding exactly what's going on, UM, but also understanding that adults are looking for jobs they don't require maybe you know, as much handling as obviously kids would who are crossing the border from Mexico into

the United States. Oh, that's right. And uh, you know, one of the things that the Josh Green notes in this in the story, uh is that obviously, you know, higher numbers of people making that crossing, uh, you know, would be a logistical and potentially political you know, a headache for the Biden administration, but not the same way as UM, you know, unaccompanied miners or or families. In terms of UM, these are not people fleeing persecution you know,

back home. If if they end up being deported, it's uh, you know, it's not a humanitarian crisis of sending them back into danger. So um, some of those logistical and complications and political risks are not, uh do not rise to the level that they would um with the family asylum seekers. So given that, we expect the economy to start to do and continue to do pretty well here in the United States. Unclear how the economy in Mexico will do, but as Josh points out, there significantly behind

the United States when it comes to inoculating the population. Well. At the same time, I'm wondering about potential tools that

the White House actually has for fixing this crisis. What are those, Amanda, Um, Yeah, I mean if there are certain policies you know that it could try to pursue, um, you know, the Trump administration had suspended temporary work these is um, it could bring those back, um, you know and kind of generally open up some of those legal paths immigration that have been have been blocked for a while.

I'm part of what, uh, what we're seeing with the increase in unauthorized immigration is um kind of overflow from what you know otherwise might have happened in legal channels. UM, you know, divide administration could even kind of offer assistance

to Mexico with vaccination. You know it could um write uh, you know, when we have a surplus of vaccine, I guess we already do, you know, divert some of that to Mexico and that would help revive revive the Mexican economy in terms, so then people would have more opportunities

at home, right. Something we talked to Nobel Lauri h Joseph Stiglets about recently about how the developed world has to help out the developing nations on a couple different levels, but you know, first and foremost helping them get COVID under control and sharing those vaccines. Folks, thank you how much. Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Webber with us along with

Bloomberg Business Week Politics editor Amanda Coulson Hurley. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. So among our most read stories in the Bloomberg includes this next one, uh, not delivering in its first day of trading as a public company. We're talking about Delivery holdings collapsing, Tim and its London public debut. Investors abandoning the food delivery startup and that's

because of its labor practices, among other things. Yeah, really interesting story happening, and it's not one that's necessarily playing out in the United States. And that's what's so interesting to me about this because investors here don't really seem to care about those But it's trending high. It is. It is, Oh, it is. What I mean, those investors don't care about it with American companies, Yeah, exactly, that's what I mean. That it doesn't transfer, Yeah, it doesn't transfer.

Diana Gomes is consumer staples analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us on the phone from London. Diana, help us make sense of this because what I'm what I'm getting at here is that E s G is something that investors talk a lot about here, it's something that banks talk a lot about, but at the end of the day, it's not part of earnings, and investors look at earnings.

That's what moves the company stock. And it seems like from what I've read and from what I understand about the delivery story, there are some big investors that are unwilling to actually buy the company's stock because of the company's labor practices. Yes, Hi, thank you for having me UM. That's uh, that's part to it true. That's uh, yes, you doesn't quite transfer to earnings UM. So it's some of the biggest UK asset managers came out over the last week saying this is not aligned with with our

investment practice. And yes, part of it has to do with the statues of the writers. So Deliver is a logistics focused trying to serve on demand food delivery from restaurants and also grocery stores. So it needs this big foot of writers that can um really serve the demand for for these UH goods, especially at the time where we are spending so so much time at home with

lockdowns and restrictions. So there is some concern as some of the writers may be earning much WEST and the minimum wage and and that really depends how we count

the hours. But the other point is uh, this is a profit loss in company, so it has been burning cash UH and the possible regulation changes, especially in many of the European markets where Deliver competes with the other very aggressive competitors, the regulation is changing and that will mean higher costs because it could mean UH a minimum wage, it can mean insurance UM eight holi days we've um and all that will then transfer into the learning. So it is a big risk and it's a risk that

we were reflected in their perspectives as well. Diane, I got a couple of questions, but how how likely is this too that just these types of companies which have been pandemic plays in the past year are just kind of falling out of favor with investors. We see that, and you point this out in your story. I mean door Dash is down twenty this month. Uh, you see others like that, um also just takeaway European rival, uh

delivery Hero. They have fallen this year. Is it just a case of like not so interested in these kinds of companies right now? Yes, So the story is really turning as we see the vaccinations rolling out, even if quite slowing in some countries. But the story is turning into yes, the consumer will want to do things outside house and we'll want to go dying at their favorite

restaurants and with friends and all that. So this companies rely on delivering meals from Russians at home, and that's not the demand will not be at the same level as it's right. I have to say, Tim and I had a conversation off air, and we're just like so tired of take out, Like just like we're talking about cooking. It's hard when you're working and all that stuff, right him.

But we were just saying, I'm done kind of a taking Yeah, but the hard I mean, look, it's it's a tough it's a tough thing to be thinking about because in one sense it has absolutely saved people during during the pandemic when it was like difficult to get other types of food, people who were really concerned about going outside and just thinking about the people who were the essential workers who were delivering this food, right, And that's a big part of the conversation here in the

United States. But I go back to some companies restaurants exactly and helping out restaurants. But a big part of the conversation is it's it's just not necessarily on the radar of investors the same way that it's on the radar of investors in the UK when they're thinking about out the regulatory risks. I think and and and perhaps this is some sort of harbinger of things to come in the United States. What do you think, Diana, I mean, do you think there's a chance that some of the

regulatory risk could come to US companies. Yes, I think the regulatory risk is smaller in the US, especially with the California Act. It was agreed on quite recently. That's that's required some minimum benefits to be paid, but it was quite limited so there, and it was limited to California as well. So I think the sentiment and the the perspectives are different. And that probably hurts Deliver as well because they had the choice of wing in London

instead of New York. And and well that's what I wondered to about what it ultimately does for the London IPO market. Diana, thank you so much for breaking it down. Diana goes consider Staples analyst Pepperleinberg intelligent with us on the phone in London. I'm bro Macro a journal now. But you let me drive. Oh no no, no, drive home, honey, please, I'll do the riding drivel let me. I want to drive, Just drive, baby, it's the questions trying. This is the

drive to the Globe Commune. Thanks, we'll drying us down on Bloomberg Radio. All right, just about ten and a half minutes left in today's trading session. Let's get to it with Walter Todd, chief investment Officer, Greenwood Capital Associates, back with us and on the phone from Greenwood, South Carolina. Walter, how are you doing good, Carol? Thanks for having me on today. Thank you well, it's good to have you

back with us. How do you feel like where we are in terms of out of COVID into a recovery into blank for the markets? Yeah, it's really it's really amazing to reflect back on twelve months ago. I was just looking at S and P cloes four that day and we're pushing four thousand here this afternoon. So one of the biggest questions I get from people is how do you explain this disconnect between what's happened in the markets over the past twelve months and what's happened in

the economy. And that's it's very difficult to explain until you look at the federalers are a balance sheet, and the and the US deficit, and then you can you can make some sense of it. But looking forward, you know, I feel very good about where we are kind of on the vaccine front here in the US and the outlook for the economy for the rest of the year. But ironically the market may struggle a little bit more as we reopen than it did when you know, things

seem the worst. So you kind of get that the market looking ahead anticipating the reopening, and then the challenge as you actually get very good economic numbers for the rest of this year. So a lot of optimism already priced into markets, is what you're saying, right, Yeah, I think you know that. I think there is a as the saying goes, the easy money has been made, and I think the money moving forward, or the games moving forward are going to be more challenging, going to be

more nuance. There's gonna be a lot of chop, which we've seen over the past you know, a month or so in terms of the rotation in the market. And then we've got the risks out there, you know from Europe. I mean, France just announced today they're going back into lockdown for four weeks. So we've got other parts of the globe that are not nearly as good shape as the US is. Does that make you a little nervous when you see what's going on over in Europe? Yeah, definitely.

I mean that, you know, Europe as a block is a bigger you know, economic um influence on the world economy than the US, so it's very important. Um, they're clearly lagging behind from a vaccine standpoint, and I think that is one of the bigger risks out there that they don't kind of get a move and start to emerge from this as we have. Of course, they don't have the benefit of a tracks going into bank accom out, so that's that's a little bit of a challenge as well.

I have to say, you know, you pull up the S and P five hundred. I'm just doing that on

the Bloomberg and obviously it doesn't work for radio. But you know, we were kind of building off of the New Year, uh, and then you definitely saw I'm going back to pre pandemic, so we built up and then of course there was a big drop down into um, you know, March, and then we've had quite a rally and we have recovered not only what we lost um because of the pandemic, but we've lost a certain amount then and that's where you start to say, Walter, if

you look at a chart like that, you're thinking, Okay, how much are we getting ahead of ourselves? Because I do wonder where the economy would have been today if we hadn't dealt with the pandemic. Would we be in a higher rate environment? What kind of growth? You know,

would the labor market continue to be stressed? I mean, I just wonder, Yeah, I mean, I think, um, when you kind of look at that assessment over the past year, I think clearly the moves at the Central Bank made and that the government made in terms of the stimulus and the support that they provided, provided that downside support for the market. But we still have all these issues. We have, you know, ten million fewer jobs than we did a year ago. We still got close to nineteen

million people collecting some form of unemployment insurance. So there's still a lot of work to be done. But clearly the support that you know, the Central Bank and the government you know, put out there was was a big tail win for financial markets. I'm wondering what happens when it comes to taxes because part of the infrastructure plan, and we're gonna hear from the President in a little over a half hour. That's when a little a little around a half hour, it's when he's scheduled to talk

at for twenty Eastern time today. Uh and unveil more details about his infrastructure plan. Some of those details include hike on corporate taxes to from markets not moving negatively on that news. It doesn't seem like investors are concerned about a corporate tax hike. Why do you think that is? Yeah, that's a great point to him. I mean, I think, you know, the corporate tax height was broadly anticipated. The rate that's being proposed. I think the expectation that's gonna

be walked back down to twenty five. So go from one to twenty five. It's it's not in significant, but it's not, you know, a huge move. I think investors maybe missing the fact that this is just part one of this plan in terms of the spending and the taxes. So there's gonna be a second part of this plan that's going to include additional taxes that may bite a little bit more. They may include capital gains UH taxes,

They may include higher individual taxes as well. So I think that's total tax bill that's going to be proposed is probably gonna be you know, pushed three trillion dollars, and when it fully comes out, that may be a bit of a shock to investors. Even though we do have spending on the other side of it. But remember taxes hit immediately to spending. The spending is going out over eight to ten years, So there's gonna be a

drag when we head into two. Because hey, Walter Todd, as an equity investor or someone who is investing in the equity market, just got about thirty seconds here. What's more problematic capital gains taxes or a corporate tax hike for publicly hell companies in particular, Just quickly, Yeah, I think I think from an investor perspective of the capital gains hike would be more significant in the main. One of the main reasons for that is there's there's the

prospect that may become effective upun enactment. In other words, if it happens and they passed in September, if it could become effective this year, and that would be problematic for investors. I think. All right, I was good to check in with you. Walter Todd, President and Chief Investment Officer of at Greenwood Capital Associates, on the phone from Greenwood,

South Carolina. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube. Star to Bloomberg Global News