Day Two From Milken Global Conference

Bloomberg Business weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Do you are listening to Bloomberg Business Week cal Master along with Tim Stanivic live at the Milk and Institute Global Conference here on the West

coast um. And you know what's interesting is we did talk with Mark Jenkins ahead of Global Credit Carlisle Group earlier big players in the credit markets, and he talked about making credit right private, uh, you name it, more accessible to investors. And our next guest is working on making alternative asset classes more accessible as well. Matt Brown is the founder and CEO of CASE. He joins us here at the can Institute Global Conference. Matt, it's really

great to have you on the show. You've been really busy over the last couple of days. Yeah, it's been a it's been a great couple of days. Uh. This theme of democratizing finance has really, uh just been a big front and center topic for the for the conference. We'll take us into your panel yesterday because you moderated a panel with people like Gene Case Cathy would Carol, who you're speaking to? What in just a couple of hours, right, exactly?

What were some big takeaways from from what you learned? You know, I think the real big theme there was, you know, inclusion, making sure that we have a financial system that actually allows all participants. Uh. It was about decentralization. It was about removing the intermediaries like big banks and brokerage firms and allowing participants uh to have direct interaction with each other to reduce cost and efficiency and increased efficiency. Um.

But overall it was a fascinating conversation. Kathy would really uh dug into kind of democratizing access for individual investors, young and stirs, the millennials. Um, we're just living the whole different world than I grew up in It's interesting. I just got off a panel talking with heads in the M and A world and and some of your established players, whether it's a Deutch, a bank or city group, uh, and talking about fintech and the up starts, you know,

and obviously they're talking their book a little bit. But the idea that you know, there's incredible regulatory oversight over the investment space, and many would say that that's necessary to make sure that investors aren't unduly or folks who tapped the financial system right that they are protected. So how do the up starts? How are they because there's I think there's a feeling that the regulatory environment isn't keeping up with it and maybe understand the risks or

the benefits. Yeah, there's a big there's a big feeling around that. Just to take a step back, you know, ten, well thirty years ago, especially around alternative investments or private funds or private credit, the SEC and the government's position was that, you know, you have to be wealthy enough that you can lose some money in these types of investment credit and credit investor. And as a result, what they effectively did was exclude a huge population of you know,

the US and internationally from participating in alternative investments. What's happening today is I think there's been a relook at that and they're realizing now that alternative investments, including private credit as you mentioned, are doing their job. They have a really a role in a portfolio, and done the right way, they can really preserve and grow wealth over time. And to exclude and not allow the democratization of these types of investments is not the right idea. How do

you do that in the right way? Though? What what regulators need to do in order to make sure that if people who can't afford to lose money aren't aren't excluded from these alternative asset classes. It's really coming down to certification, education, scalable education. Fintech as we think about, oftentimes does allow access to to financial products. But fintech can bring a lot of different things in a scalable format,

the most of which could be education. So really you can't talk about democratizing access to investments and aless you're talking about educating a broad group of new participants who are going to be making investments, so they're going in with open eyes. You look at Robin Hood and some of the read at some of the kind of the concern there is the gamification of these platforms and maybe not everyone knows exactly what's going on and can they

lose too much money? So you're going to see a real rise of education as kind of a cornerstone in this. There's education, there's education, and there's education and others. You

can go to website and read some stuff. You know, it's very passive, but does it need to be something that's much more formal so that you've got to pass some form of a financial literacy test that you're driving to some extent, so that you really know you're talking about your welfare, your investments, your money that you might

need to you know, live on. So the SEC right now is currently amended the accreditation role to include a new lane for education, and the way they're determining that is based on your uh, your your profession, your experience, your licenses in the finance industry u UM. So they're already moving away from net worth is just the only criteria, and now they're saying, you know what, if you're smart enough and you can certify that, then you should be

able to participate. So that's that first step in removing a net worth requirement, but you're right, it's actually about making sure you can prove that the work has been done right. Is there any concern that there could be I don't know, people getting around these guard rails and some ugly situations that cause regulators think differently about this, Well, what regulators are doing around robin Hood right now. Yeah, it is a concern, and so our company hasn't reached

out to the end investor. Were a B two B platform, So our client who uses our platform to access alternative investments is a financial advisor, professional investment and r I A exactly, so we are all we do have our concerns as well. So we're watching it very closely, watching what the government's doing, and we want to be part of the solution on that. And I do wonder if it's some of these all the investments, is it is?

If it's a fun you're getting a piece of it right, so that you're not all in and that you would do some of your risk. It's a diversified pool, but liquid it is a big point as well. I know we're kind of about a time here, but you know, are you locking your capital up for a month a week for five years or ten. So, but you think about if universities and endowments wanted to be able to tap these all investments because they because in the search for yield, but they've also got to make sure that

those endowments are there for the future. You have to wonder about opening up to a wider pool up investors. It's basically what we're talking about. Hey, Matt Brown, thank you, Hey, thank you very much. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. We want to at bit about spacks because they've had their ups. They've had their downs this year, no doubt about it. Uh. And we have a great

guest to talk about. Orlando Bravo is founder and managing partner at Toma Bravo. He's with us at the Milk and Institute Global Conference right now. First of all, how's your conference going. I mean we talked a lot about yesterday. How really feels like things are kind of getting back to normal, albeit with masks on. Well, First, thanks so much for having me. The conference is awesome. Think about it. We're here in l A. A lot of it is outside.

The weather's perfect. I've gotten to see some of our limited partners that I haven't seen in two to three years, so some of the old friends, and also meet a lot of new people. So it's just been great, one meeting after the other, right, fifteen minute meetings and then trying to see as many people face to face, like it's remarkable, right, unbelievable. So okay, let's talk about SPACs because I was looking at some of the indexes. They're down as as a group about ten percent so far

this year. They're down about if you look at certain indexes from the mid February hype, where are we because people are talking about the death of SPACs um and as to mention earlier, I mean, these are cycles that things go through. SPACs are not a new investment vehicle exactly. Sparks are going to come back. They are They've been around for whatever five or thirty years. But why do why do we think that there was this incredible craze

to SPACs. It's because I think knowlogy companies, there's so much innovation and so much new business creation and so many tech companies being performed that are getting to scale that the financial markets are trying to adapt of how can we absorb all these new assets into the market because we're not seeing a lot of I I mean, we saw the I p O market fall off a little bit, right it didn't now it's back. Now it's back. But I'm just saying that you know that there's alternatives

for growing public here, and the alternatives are great. Direct listings are great, and this fact provides a great alternative because it really really does is it allows a company to be able to openly talk about its projections with

its investors. Every investor think about it. If you're looking to buy a company, if you're if we are together going to buy a private company, wouldn't we like to sit down with management and say, let's see what you've done in the past, and how do you think about next year and the following year, and how does your operating plan and strategic plan aligned with that financial plan that you have. It gives you so much insights as

to how management thinks about their own business. But are you concerned at all that there is a lack of quality companies to be acquired by SPACs that are out there looking for targets Right now? I'm always concerned about quality. What ended up happening as well with this pac boom is a number of companies went public through SPACs or merged with SPACs that are venture capital companies that are

really young companies. Now. Retail investors in particular participated in that because the regulatory environment doesn't allow them to participate in venture capital and private equity, so they rush to this market and then the regulators get worried that, oh, they're gonna lose money, or these companies have lack of a track record, or they're gonna miss their numbers. Now we'll see what ultimately happens. But one of the things

you said at the beginning is SPACs are out of favor. Now, of course nobody likes backs, but the trading should be the underlying company. Forget of whether it was a SPAC or I p O or direct listing. It's what matters is the underlying business. And is that what happened though, Orlando, in your view that we get a little floppy in terms of looking at the end of underlying fundamentals, the

basics of like understanding the business and the growth trajectory. Absolutely, there is a It takes about nine months for a de SPAC to begin trading on its own merits versus from the fact that it was a SPAC to begin with. And that's an inefficiency in the market that shouldn't exist. But is there something that the industry needs to get I just came through a panel um of folks in the M and A world and saying, you know, we'll get through this, okay, but just got about forty seconds

left here. But we need to as an industry get together and maybe set some rules, some understandings of what a SPACT needs to be. I give you two great rules that we should have intwods on one's transparency, So the SPAC should be able to post these are my projections or our projections and every quarter compare to how you were doing every quarter. Just show that in the front page or show that in your communications. And the

other one it is alignment. Bring the best of private equity to SPACs, which is the sponsor has to invest significant capital in that pipe sub get in the game. Absolutely all right, That would certainly be a game changer. Orlando, thank you so much. So he scratched the surface, but so hopefully we can continue in the future. Orlando, Bravo. Founder imaging partner of Tomo Bravo joining us here at Milkin. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg

Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Can I just tell you you know? At Milking yesterday I hosted a panel and it was all about the role of technology and longevity. We're talking about aging. One of the panelists studies the brain. We talked a lot about what happens as we age and what we can do about it. You gotta tell the panelist about Sarah McBride's next story. I am totally. It's in the special double issue. It's the Persuasion issue of Bloomberg Business Week. So let's get

to it. Let's get to it with Sarah McBride, venture capital reporter at Bloomberg News. She joins us on the phone from San Francisco. Sarah's story what a brain scan reveals about the science of persuasion. It's in the current issue of Bloomberg Business Week, which Carol mentioned is the persuasion issue. Sarah, neuroscientists have come a long way and understanding how and when people come around to a different point of view. So what exactly happens to our brain

when we change our mind. Okay, well they have come a long way, but there's still a long way to go. It sounds like that particular area of study is really tricky for hero scientists, and that's because other things we do are more localized to one or just a few parts of the brain. For example, if you move a limb, whereas something that requires spot like persuasion, is spread out across so many parts of the brain. It's actually much harder to understand exactly what's going on. And this was

a lesson in brain science and anatomy for me. I had to learn about all these different parts of the brain that get involved. And um, they're asking really interesting questions like if you're analyzing something, how do you separate those neurons to the neurons you lose used in memory, like when you're trying to remember what you analyzed previous

flee or what your previous opinion was. And um, they scanned my brain, which was fascinating, and they're looking at areas like the ventral medial prefrontal cortex and the central strie itum and all these things which are kind of spread out in different areas across the brain and reflect persuasion. I mean we're talking about yeah, go ahead, jail, come on in. Joel Weber's with us Bloomberg Business Week editor back Uh in New York, Sarah, I just have to

thank you for lending us your your brain. Um and like actually living up published photo of your brain. Uh So, so what was the whole process, Like, what was the whole process like to to have have your brain scanned for the purposes of persuasion. So I've never done anything like this, and um, I was hoping that they would have something very interesting to say about my brain. But they were like, yeah, it's very similar to the forty five other brains and we looked at for this study.

Brain is special, right, Um So I had to get in this f m R. I don't know if we've ever done that before, but it's just a weird experience. You're in this big cylinder. It's very noisy. You can't really move a whole lot in there. My head was kind of drapped in I had They even gave me a little alarm unless I suddenly got plastrophobic and needed to come out. But they kind of arranged these mirrors and screens, so that I had this sensation that's having

more room in there than what's actually the case. And then, believe it or not, I just got to watch cartoons. So it's like the greatest assignment ever. Careful you're talking to your boss here, so system so as you're watching cartoons, like, let's let's kind of get to the point where this, uh, you know, becomes a business story again, what what what are the potential takeaways for you know, the frontier of this research and what it means for for where where

persuasion and business could go. Yeah, so they wanted me to watch normalized behavior, which was by day, we're watching uh, screening cartoons, whereas things like being unhealthy or not taking care of the environment were just standard in the cartoon. And then they showed me persuasive messages to see that I just kind of been showing the opposite. What would my brain be doing when I lift? Now shown Okay,

you should exercise or you should recycle. So, um, the implications for this are pretty big for anybody trying to sell somebody something, or a politician trying to get some

any to vote for them. So there's actually millions of dollars being invested in this science, and um, the hope is that UH will kind of know exactly what parts of the brain are affected when you're persuaded, which means not only will people be able to better persuade you, but the general public will also have a better idea of what's going on to if the science will kind of build up on both sides. Just so it sounds that listening about marketers, right, like sales and marketing, like

just think about That's my question for you, Sarah. And I'm wondering when you reported this story, when when you went through this experience, if it makes you think differently about the way that you see advertisements, the way that people try to sell you something. I mean, are you are you taking a Do you have a different way of thinking about that? Now? Oh God, I've always been so successible to advertising this tradiction. Now I do kind of think about it, like what little things they might

be tweaking. And I hadn't devoted much back to this idea of your social conditioning and what happens if people all around you think one thing. You know how much harter it is to change your mind about that? And then there are very fascinating things they're studying, like what happened if you're pretending to agree with something whereas deep down you don't really, but you wanted the social credibility that goes along with agreeing with your friends. So there

are so many layers of this. It's really nuanced and got fascinating, you know, sir, I just wanted to say when I when I saw your brain, I was like, that looks like someone who's very perceptible to persuasive sales pitches. This is like a lot of home shopping at night. No, Like, show me an ice cream cone and I'll immediately think, oh my gosh, that looks delicious. So how much more research do we expect to be done before this might enter? Uh,

you know, the next the next phases of applications. Well it's one of these things where they've made tremendous strides, but then it's just kind of showing them how much farther they have to go. So um, each piece of information they Jane is just one more step. But advertising is constantly being tweaked based on what we know and

what people think they know about the brain. So I think elements of it will be reflected in advertising and marketing um in just a few years, and it will get better and better the deeper they can go into the brain and the more they learn about it. I'd say ten years. I wonder if Jill walked in, would they make him watch like the Squid Game or something. I can't think of a worse thing to do, And put me in an f R M R I machine and make me watch a squid game like no Ane

on Squid Game. I'd pushing that button to get me out of there as quickly as possible. Oh, he knows. I want those images. Al right, guys, we gotta run venture capital reporter at Bloomberg New Sarah McBride. Check out her story What a brain scan reveals about the science of persuasion. This is fascinating. She of course was joining us with Bloomberg Business We get at her toe up. That's in the current special double issue, the Persuasion Issue,

a business week magazine. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Well. The stock is up nearly two percent this year. The company CEO is known to retail investors as the silver Back, because they are the apes. We are talking none other than Adam Aaron. He's the chairman and CEO of AMC Entertainment. He joins us now here at the Milk and Institute Global Conference. Adam, it's good to see you. It's been

a long time, Tim, Nice see you again. How are you great? Um? You know, if you had told me I run AMC now for almost six years and the company that I joined was a second largest movie theater chain the United States. A year and a half later, it was the largest movie theater chain in the world. Uh,

everything was just happening, just fine. And if you told me in February of that we would somehow relive as a people on this planet the Spanish flu epidemic of nineteen eighteen and nineteen nineteen, I just couldn't have imagined, in this era of modern medicine that we would in our near term go through the last year and a half of disease and lockdown and mask wearing and uh uh, just think about all the loss and pain that has

been suffered on this planet. Everyone has financially sacrificed, everyone has been overloaded with stress, except the people who work at claros. They're they're their business is really fooling nice people. Though they helped us with our safe and clean protocols at AMC. Theaters um and many people got sick and many people died. But that's only part of it. Uh. And that was the story of where AMC uh did everything in our power to have financial collapse, but we did.

We raised billions of dollars in the equity and debt markets, got incredible assistance from our theater landlords and our lenders, and we entered one knowing that we could survive this pandemic no matter what came. Then. Well, we would never have predicted was that retail investors would descend on AMC the way they have this year. Uh. And so yeah, it's been it's been a fascinating two years. Needless to sign,

They certainly have descended on AMC. And you announced earlier this year program for retail investors free popcorn and platform for them on the website. Does that seems like they're losing a little bit of momentum. The folks at Vanda Research said that retail traders have bought less than sixteen million dollars in a MC stock over the past week, compared to six million dollars at the height of things earlier this year. What are you working on to continue

to connect with retail investors. Well, I have no Uh, I have no sense of whether they're uh picking up steam or losing steam through the research tools that you're talking about. But I do know that I tweet every single day, almost every day. Everyone I take I did, I take the day off? Everyone awhile from my Twitter feed. It's fun. But I my tweets. I started tweeting in earnest in April, and every single day my Twitter followers increase A hundred ninety thousand this morning, Uh, my average

tweet is reading one point one million times. My tweets since April have been read cumulatively a hundred and thirty million times. Uh. Just three or four weeks ago, I put out a tweet that had my all time highest readership at almost six and a half million people read one of my tweets. Unwelcomes are unwarranted celebrity Like are you? I mean you've become a celebrity of sorts, especially on social Yeah, well, your company and your stock certainly have been.

What is it about the business that justifies the run up that we've seen in the price because we're I'm looking at it in terms of you know, your market cap, you're well over twenty billion at this point um roughly five times the value it was if you go back to that's when we saw the industry and economy much much better place. So how do you actually deliver on the growth expectations there? Those are high expectations. That's pressure.

Uh So the answer to your question is that back in June, I think it was when we were raising money yet again, we put out a very important disclosure, uh so important that the Wall Street Journal carried it on page one above the fold in the banner headline, where we cautioned investors that we were trading away from historic fundamentals and that something entirely different was going on

at a MC. And I don't think you drive a car by looking in the rearview mirror only, and so you look, you drive a car by looking through the

windshield and looking at what's ahead. And our goal at AMC is not just to bring back from this pandemic the company that existed in two thousand nineteen, and our shareholders thankfully have armed us with what at the end of the June quarter was a more than a two billion dollar war chest of cash in the bank or undrawn revolving credit line to put to work to fundamentally

transform the company. And that's what we're engaged in right now, in addition to bringing back the company of old, because look, we're uh, there's there's some really good news for AMC, the movie theater company. Uh, and yet we have a way to go. So the really good news is that if you look at the period of October, in the first two weeks of this month, it was the biggest fourteen days of industry box office, which is the basic measure of the health of our industry. This you know

what what the revenues are. Um, it was the biggest fourteen day box office since February, since the pandemic started and forced the closure of theaters. It took a long time, took twenty months, but finally we got the highest box office in over a year and a half. Now we're still not a two thousand nineteen levels. But if you compare the box office so far in October to the box office in the third quarter, or the box office in the second quarter, or the box office in the

first quarter or the box office last year. You can see this enormous progress you're making. We're making. No, that's hang in a second because we have to do a commercial break, But we're gonna come back and do some more. Sure. Yeah. One thing I want to talk about is if we ever yes or no, do we ever get back to uh pre pandemic levels en levels? In my judgment, yes, But the question is what when do you think? Uh, we don't. We're not in the business of making predictions.

Were in the We're in the business of trying to make it happen as soon as we possibly can make it happen. Adam, you referred to the war chest that you have at AMC Entertainment. Right now, what are you doing in order to transform the theater experience to get people back into the theater, especially at a time when they're saying, wait a second, I can just watch this on streaming in a couple of weeks. Well, we have

two challenges of the company. First, we can have to continue to innovate at our theaters and uh so that we get more movie cars and more theater goers. Tell me to our theaters. Uh, this is on the AMC is pretty good at We've been the innovator in our industry for many years now, and UH, some of the things that we've just done in the last few months. We started showing professional sporting events. We are showing professional football on Sunday afternoons. For example. We've had some uh

UFC fights, some w w E matches. UH we've had a big professional boxing fight in the night. Addition, we've been showing some live concerts or some concert movies. Both people go to them and they enjoy it. But but we've got something that's much bigger than just continue to innovated our theaters, because if all we do it is innovated our theaters. We're gonna bring back Post Pandemic, the company that existed in two thousand nineteen. And as you said in your build up in the last segment, the

market cap of that company wasn't twenty billion dollars. So our next challenge is to transform the entire company, not just transformed the theatrical experience. And in that you're correct. We entered the second quarter with more than two billion dollars of cash and undrawn revolving credit line. We're gonna do something with that war chest. Uh, and add line of business that are related to our expertise, but not

necessarily being a pure movie theater. Play Adam in twenty seconds, you said you are recently said that you'd accept crypto, including doscoin, Bitcoin, lightcoin and more. Are people buying tickets in crypto? They are there, but right now they're buying gift cards in crypto. Uh. But in a few weeks time, we'll actually be able to take cryptocurrency for online purchases of AMC tickets and AMC movie concessions at our theaters. All right, we gotta write it. Adam cool, come back.

We'd love to talk about Adam Aaron over at AMC Entertainment. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. So we talked a lot about sustainable investing yesterday and all of the money going into it. But I'm really looking forward to this next guest. We were just talking before we got going, because there is E s G and then there's impact investing, and this is something that's

certainly in her world. Joining us right now is Joanna Rees she's co Heed co lead, I should say, of Impact Investing at Apollo Global Management with us on site at Milkin. Nice to have you here on Bloomberg. Thank you so much for having me. Um. We did start talking and I like throughout something about E s Genia Like, well, wait a minute, Carol, there's a difference between E s G and Impact because and so talk to us about that,

because it does get used, I think sometimes interchangeable. Yes, it's the terms definitely run into each other and everyone has their own set of terms SOW which is part of the problem. Which is part of the problem, but we'll get there. Um. So E s G has been around for a long time. We had Apollo or just issued our twelfth annual E s G Report. So it's a big focus on the part of our firm, really on the part of any alternative asset manager or any

asset manager overall. And we think of that as the ownership practices of the company, you know, being mindful of the environmental, social, and governments governance factors associated with a specific business measure them, get better understand what's unique to

wipe the company you own. So that is relevant to any type of company in any type of ownership, so you would focus on e s G. Whether you were looking at, you know, a green energy type UM player as well as if you were looking at something that was on the on the far end. On the other you won't say it, but I'll say a coal company. Indeed, you know we're there for you. You can still focus on the s G from parting coal mine, you can still get better. Is that so is that troubling to you?

Though not at all, because I think we need to as asset owners engage with the companies that are where they are today. But that is that is, you know, separate and apart from what what we're looking to do in the impact side, which is building upon that foundation. You know, we the data points are astonishing just coming out of Apollo. Our last report has data on fifty seven companies that have three thousand employees across their ploy

based so it's a huge effort. But what we're doing an impact is related in the sense that we still need to be focused on the s G, we still need to report on it, get better at it. But impact is investing in companies where their goods or services improve the world, either socially or environmentally. Direct like, So it's not just that they donate to the local charity, it's not just that they have great governance practices, it's that what they do for a living makes the world

a better place. So give us an example. So, the first investment we made on our platform is a company in the circular economy. Uh. It's the company is called Raino da Medici. They manufacture recycled carton board in Europe. So you know that's a very clear sustainability story where but the company recycling those fibers, they can be used seven times. It's so much better environmentally than either using

virgin fibers or using you know, god forbid, like plastic packaging. Uh. And so you know that's a company we're looking to support, to continue to grow, to to consolidate that industry and build upon their environmental leadership, which we think is you know, fundamental to what the company does. And that's why it's a non concessionary investment. It looks a lot like any

other investment Apollo would have made. It just happens to be in a company that is focused on driving environment and you look at the same metrics, right absolutely, Okay, because because I do think that there's always like, Okay, do we do a little bit of a trade off in terms of performance or something. But I mean, you guys are looking you know, you're you're managing money for your investors, right, and there's going to be, you know,

that exit point and you've got to make some money. Absolutely, we're underwriting the exact same way that we see in like our large cat fund, with the added focus on what is the impact of that company has, how do we measure it, how do we maximize that through our

ownership period. But the concept that impact has to be concessionary I think comes in part from trying to shoehorn assets that don't have that kind of fundamental, mutually reinforcing dynamic that a company in the circular economy has where if they grow, earnings grow, they're also doing better for

the world. If you're trying to be having an impact in a positive way, if you're trying to buy a company where profit and purpose or intention every day and do it in an impact portfolio, you're going to have

to make that decision. Johan, are you are you ever doing any due diligence And you say to yourself, well, the numbers are there from where we think we expected returns are going to be, but E s G just asn't and as a result, we have to pass absolutely that happens with E s G across our platform where we find business businesses with business practices we can't fix and we walk away. But for us as we do, we do that, and then we also do our impact diligence.

And if we can't confirm to ourselves that there is a tangible measurable positivity either socially or environmentally from what the company knows, we're not making that investment. But what happens then or do you leave it then to the venture capitalists the angel investors, because there are going to

be those firms that will change the world. Look at an elon Musk and Tesla and for how long people are like, yeah, whatever, right, and here he is today, right, And if the investment money wasn't there to back it up,

what a shame. So but do you leave those companies that financially might not fit your criteria at a apole and say, okay, there's plenty of other money at the venture angel stage, and then when it grows we can jump in and the preponderance of capital focus stan impact in private funds is focused on early stage businesses, and there are people who are doing incredible work supporting you know, hopefully the Tesla's of the future. That's just not us.

And so we're looking u to do impact what we call it impact at scale later stage businesses Ibata and Casula positive, but UM to widen that aperture away from thinking that the only company that can have impact is a newborn company that is so mission driven. Um. You know, the company we just acquired was founded in nine seven,

which is great. They didn't start out planning to improve the environment, right, That's where they are now, right, join very briefly, do we get to a point within our lifetimes where E s G is no longer a thing because it's just everything adheres to E s G standards? You know? That would be great, But I think where we are as a as a you know, human beings to constantly push for more, and so if we can improve the employment practices of our businesses will raise the standard.

Joanna reee Over at Apollo thank you. Thanks for listening to Blomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also Listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News m