Covid-19 Vaccine Distribution, Rubenstein on New Book

dot com. If you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. Let's get into it. Let's talk about it because distribution logistics, this is kind of where we are when it comes to dealing with the virus. Let's bring in our guests with us is Marissa Farrebo. She's senior vice president and chief supply chain Officer at advent Health.

That's a faith based, nonprofit healthcare system based in Florida. They operate though across multiple states. And this on a day where global cases from the virus exceed seventy two point two million and deaths of surpassing one point six million. Yeah, exactly. Whenever I hear those numbers, Marissa um nice to have you here with us. First of all, how are are you doing? How's your team doing? Hi? Carol, Hi Tim, Thanks for having me on the show today. We're um,

we're hanging in there. I mean, we're doing great. We're really getting excited about this vaccine. UM. There's been a lot of planning, a lot of preparation that's gone into this time. So this is a big week. We're very excited for it. So are you giving vaccines at the hospital yet? We're expecting the vaccines to arrive on our campuses tomorrow and then we'll be um, we'll be administering them shortly thereafter. And I want to bring in also with us as Dr Brent Box. He's senior vice president

and chief medical officer at advent Health. He also is joining us, like Marissa on the phone from Florida. So, Brent, I mean, listen, this is the day we've all been thinking about. How did you, um, you know, how are you approaching in terms of the distribution, the rollout, making sure that everybody's going to get that second dose? Tell me about kind of the logistical planning you must be the two of you in the middle of right now.

So Hi, Carol, let's join you this afternoon. Yes, this is a is an exciting week because this is worked. It's been several months in the planning, and the team has been putting together a playbook for for about two and a half months. And the playbook is um beginning to be executed this week and and and really starting over the weekend. So we're excited to get started. Um,

the playbook that you guys put in place. I love that you use that word because I've been saying over the last few months, i mean, right t him like nobody had the playbook for the virus, but you guys in the local community, ultimately, they've got to come up with something they have that's this is what this is when you go to school for exactly. So, so I'm curious, um, Dr Box, in terms of the things that you guys have been working on and anticipating and putting in places.

It kind of playing out like you anticipated, you know, it really is. There's a lot of fluidity to what we learned every day. Um. But we had a group of about fifty of our experts and leaders across the system work hard on this over the last couple of months, and and we we were able to really track with the federal the CDC, the FDA, the guidance it was out there to put together a playbook, um that will that will really make sense in the safe administration of

this vaccine. So, Dr Box, how are you deciding who's going to get the vaccine in these early stages. So we are following tim, We're following state and federal guidelines. We're really following it to the t um It's basically based on the National Academy of Medicine phased approach, which

is in line with the CDC approach. So we're really focusing on those healthcare workers are team members who are taking care of COVID patients every day, the healthcare workers with the highest risk of being exposed to the virus, Which makes sense, right. We've been hearing from a lot more is it come on in on this so logistically to and I've had a lot of conversations about these are viruses that have to be kept at incredibly cold temperatures. Uh, and I think they can you know without that, they

only last for a very short period of time. So what's been involved logistically in you getting prepared for receiving the vaccine and making sure they're kept in a safe place. Talk to us a little bit about that, sure will. As Dr Box mentioned, you know, we we started our planning many months ago, UM, and really at that time really thought about, Okay, how do we how are we going to store vaccines? Where are they going to get sort of going to get stored everywhere? And where we

landed was really a hub and spoke model. UM. We did secure some additional ultra low freezers so that we could increase capacity at our hub sites. UM. But a lot of planning, a lot of preparation, UM. You know, backup plans have gone into place as well. So I'm really proud of the team for for really coming together and and forgive me, I'm gonna jump in because I mean, we're I know our audience, I know Tim, and I like we love the nitty gritty of of the details.

Like what else, Like you said, backup plans, What have you had to kind of think about to make sure you've got a backup plan for it? Is it the refrigeration, is it other things? Yeah, that's a great point. You know, as we think about the need for that ultra cold storage, UM, even just dry ice machines, you know, how do we and then how do you how do you manage dry

ice and how do you get trained on that? So really, again you just mentioned some of those details, and the teams spent a lot of time um really incorporating that and making sure all aspects of this, you know, have really been sought through well and are outlined in the playbook that Dr Box just mentioned. So take us through visually what this looks like. Is this a room that will be dedicated for the next few months with a line of people outside just walking in one after the

other getting shots here. No, so the room where we're storing product is going to be in a very different place than where we were administering the vaccines UM. And so you know our storage is, you know, is in highly secured split spaces and um we you know where we can properly store and keep the refrigeration and freezing

needs there. UM. And then our prods and our administration will be occurring at very specific sites with um again very uh practiced protocols in place, and and um really walk being able to have our employees and of our team members and others come to those spaces. UM. Dr Box wondering how long you think it will ultimately take to vaccinate your staff and those frontline healthcare way workers.

What's the timeline you're anticipating and when do you start to anticipate the vaccine actually going out to the general public those most vulnerable. First, Okay, let me first answer the first question. I think that um, you know, we're we are set up and we have planned to vaccine vaccine and our team members as fast as the vaccine

comes to us. We have some very large systems here in Florida, and for example, we'll be vaccinating um at two administration pods here in Orlando at a thousand team members per day, so that we we we anticipate getting that vaccine out to our team members as quickly as it comes. You know, it's not clear how fast the vaccine will come to the community, but we look forward to participating in that and will be prepared as a health system to to help our communities in every every

place that we operate. Dr Box, How are the communities where your hospitals are. What are the numbers that you're seeing. What is the hospital capacity like in these places? You know, it really varies across our system because it's it's occurring at different rates in different states, but are our communities obviously are are stress just like our facilities are um

But in general, our our facilities are doing well. UM. They have really um stretched to accommodate the needs of the volume of patients that COVID is presented to us. So our team members are are really doing great work and our and our hospitals are are really standing in there for our communities. Dr Box, Is it like what it was back in the you know kind of the hyphe points are peaks um for Florida? You know, are our peak was in the midsummer. We are definitely seeing

a slow rise here in Florida right now. So it's we're not We're not seeing the same volume here in Florida that we did in the Midsummer, but we're prepared for it if it comes. Chrissa, I want to bring you back in here and get more on the logistics and planning for the vaccine rollout at your hospitals. How are you planning for different vaccines that need to be

stored differently. We know the Fiser vaccine has to be stored at a very low temperature, but that's not the story for other vaccines that could potentially be coming in the next few months. You know that that's a great question, Tim, And and certainly you know, this has just been such an amazing feat you know, across many different areas to come together and be able to manage this complex very rapid. But for us, you know, it really is translating to

being able to manage UM through a single system. And so we're using our single system regardless of the way that it's being stored. So regardless of it whether it's in an ultra low freezer or whether it's in a refrigerator, it's all making its way into a system, so we can account for it that way, we can look at our data analytics that way, UM and that's really you know, that really helps guide our future decisions in the space um dr box. Last question, just got about thirty seconds here.

Do you anticipate, I don't know, and a summer that we are back to kind of a more normal way of life. What are you telling your teams at this point? And just quickly if you could, you know, we're telling

our teams are couple of things. Number one, we're strongly encouraged the vaccine, and number two, we're strongly encouraged our team members in our communities to continue doing what makes sense, you know, ppe wearing, mass social distancing, avoiding large gatherings, all those things that we know that really make a difference, um while they're while the time goes by and the

vaccine becomes more and more prevalently in our population. So those are the two things that we're focusing on, and we are very hopeful that those two together will bring us to that place in the summer. You mentioned fingers crossed. Good luck with everything we know. It's a it's a huge task for everyone involved in this process. Dr Brent Box,

senior vice president, chief medical Officer at event Health. Also Marissa Faraba, she's senior vice president chief supply chain Officer at advent Health as well, both of them joining us on Florida. It's a massive task. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. So we've got a FED meeting this week, last of the year that's

happening on Wednesday. And what a year it was. Yeah, Jerome Powell breakout star of the year, right totally totally, I mean really stepping up and stepping up quickly and That's exactly what Rich Miller gets into in a story currently in the magazine. He's economics report at Bloomberg News on the phone from the nation's capital along with Jill Webber, editor Bloomberg Business Week, on the remote access from Brooklyn.

I was teasing it earlier, Joel, and I said, J. Powell's got to get his cape out again, uh, in this Wednesday meeting. I mean, he has really just been unbelievable, certainly dealing with the pandemic. You mean Clark Kent exactly. Remember he's the one that just looks like a civilian. So yeah, you know, I think we when we've talked about just people who have had extraordinary impact on the year, I think J. Pale is right at the top of that list. And yeah, we could have certainly had some

Superman themed art to go with the story. But you know, I think the other thing that Rich did a really good job of pointing out in the story is that it's not only just in the context of this year, it's actually sort of in the context of fed Shares as a whole. Like if you if you look at that Pantheon pal if you you know, if this was his this was the end of his derm, he would be right at the top of that pantheon with people like Paul Vulgar, and the Volker thing is exactly where

all him. The mike over to Rich and say, we talk to us more about the Vocal wrinkle of the story in your reporting, because Vocer's um obviously been a person that has also been talked about in that pantheon context. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean it is kind of amazing that, uh Powell has had a relationship in some sense with Vocal since the early ninety nine and Volker obviously passed away

a year ago. But uh, you know Powell was he sort of recounted, you know, he was a middle ranking Treasury official and he said, you know, here's a guy who's now rules the roof of the FED, saying I was frightened the we been meeting this guy. You know, he got the sick foot seven and Sakar jumping, you know, h imposing policymaker who tamed inflation. Uh. But now Powell, you know, he's you know, he's not six seven, he's

like five ten minute he's but he's in his own way. Uh, He's he's made his mark, you know, what do they say, A crisis makes a makes a man or a woman, right, and he rose to the occasion. But it's not only that. He's also uh sort of turned monetary policy up on its on its head, you know, uh uh vocal sort of pushed on employment up to like over ten percent to to bring down inflation. But now uh Powell wants to push unemployment down maybe the three point five percent

or below to try to bring up inflation. It's like, you know, jiu jitsu type thing. But what is what is the legacy of of Chair Powell at this point? I mean, I don't think it's too early to start talking about it, but I mean, how will he remember be remembered for for how he changed the FED? Well, I mean I think I think one in the crisis, he took the playbook that Ben Bernanke, the former FED chair, had during the financial crisis, and he sort of you know, as we say in the piece, you know it was

on did it on steroids? So he pushed he pushed the FED into lending to areas where they had never gone before. The main street business facility hasn't been as successful as they hope, but they've done some lending there, they brought up you know, high yield bonds. Um, they brought up high yield bonds. They pushed you know, the envelope on on on the on the risks they were willing to take. And he also, you know, F chairman have been uh basically since the fifties when when the

sort of FED broke away from the Treasury. The Fed basically used to provide finance for the Treasury. Just effectively, the Fed kept during the war and the immediate after kept yields on on the debt that the Treasury was selling to finance the war effort lo um. And then you know, there there was what it's called the Fed Treasury Accord, and the FED became quote unquote or independent. But Powell realized, you know, this is you know, we're facing,

you know, like an epic crisis. I've got to you know, put away that kind of squeamishness about you know, cooperating with Treasury. And I've gotta we've all got to go, you know, we need all government, you know, and that's and that's something that we may see I have to see again, you know. So he's made his market areas

to that end. I wanted to rewind the clock a little bit to a part of the story that I actually I didn't know this, um, but in the before times, like just the before times, uh, February Poue was actually in Saudi Arabia and was out a meeting of central bankers from the Group of twenty and I'm I'm wondering, um, you know, how how much of what he saw there informed what came out of that UM and and you

hit tease a little bit about that. I'm just wondering, like, what what did you what is your reporting, UM gathered from what he what he learned when he was in Saudi Arabia for that for those couple of days, I think, like a lot of us and you know, in February, um uh, you know, he was thinking, Okay, yeah, I know there's a coronavirus, but it's uh, you know, it's going to be contained to China and maybe the immediate you know countries. You know, we're we're a long way

away from it. You know, it's not going to be a sort of earth shattering event for US, the United States and the FED. Then he went to Saudi Arabia, he meets the Korean delegation there and he saw it hearing from the Italian delegation and said, oh, so he calls back to you know, the States, and it's a weekend. He calls back to the States and says, you know, when I come back on Monday, you know, midday, I want you know, I want, I want to go through all the options we've got. And so he flies back

in Monday. You know, it comes comes down the ramp from his plane, opens up his you know email, and he's got all these texts from Stafford saying, man, the stock markets cratering, you know, so uh and then it was just like off to the races. You know, they did more in a month that than than uh Bernakey Fed did in you know, a couple of years on you know, all on the space of March. Basically, Rich

just got about thirty seconds forty seconds left here. I mean, he has did a lot, and he's moved quickly, and we're I think that the world would say, and certainly folks in the US would say they're grateful for what he's done. Time will tell, though, versus you know, some of the steps he's taken, the changes in focus, letting maybe inflation run hot, you know, to kind of help out the labor market. Time will tell whether or not

all these strategies are smart, for sure. I mean that's a very good, good point, Carol At you know, it's there are risks, right, He's pushed all the chips on the table, and there are risks. I mean, you know, some people are worried about inflation, but a lot of other people worried about you know, another stock market bubble

or really you know, housing boom or something. Because you know, he's basically gone all in and uh, as you say, we'll see, you know, But I just think about all these Fed chiefs though, and let's like crisis after crisis, whether it's financial crisis or joannet Yellen dealing you know with also some of that as well in getting the economy going. It's like and then the pandemic. Rich great read.

Thank you so much. Rich Miller, Economics reporter, Bloomberg News on the phone from Washington, d C. Joe Webber along with his puppies, letting them in and out, heard that a little bit in the background. Editor of Bloomberg Business Week, find that story. It's in the magazine online. On the Bloomberg great read. Right, that's a great read. J. J. Powell and his legacy. We shall see. You're listening to

Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer on Bloomberg Radio. So, Tim, we know we didn't have a playbook, or at least most of us didn't, on how to get through the global pandemic, that's for sure. Right, We've been talking about that kind of NonStop. But I think we kind of maybe do now thanks to a new book at by David Rubinstein. Yeah, I think that's definitely the case. I mean, David spoke to just the biggest names out there about

leadership and what they've learned from managing crises in the past. Yeah, and leaders from all walks of life. He is the co founder and co executive chairman of the private equity firm the Carlisle Group, chairman of the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, the Smithsonian Institution, and the Council on Foreign Relations. Also president of the Economic Club of Washington, d C. He's also a colleague. He's host of peer

to peer Conversations on Bloomberg Radio and TV. The book is entitled How to Lead Wisdom from the World's Greatest CEOs, founders and game changers. Great to have back with us, uh this time on the phone from Bethesda, Maryland. David. Nice to have you back on Bloomberg. Thank you very much for having me. Hey listen, So you've been talking to leaders for a long time, and in your book you write you point out that when you meet somebody, you kind of want to go there, You want to say, so,

how did you become a lead? How did you how did you rise up? Why are you so fascinated? Well, I guess when I was little, I was always interested in learning how other people became prominent and famous, and I used to read about them, and I guess I couldn't stop asking people questions. So my mother would say, you know, be polite, don't ask people so many questions. But I wasn't able to resist. So dozens of leaders you spoke to for this Dr Anthony Faucci, Oprah, Jeff Bezos,

Marilyn Howson, Um. Is there a common thread that runs through all of their journeys that you took away from the conversations. Sure all of them came from I would say middle class, lower middle class or blue collar families. None of them were really extremely wealthy, they work their way up. They came from a situation where they typically

had some failures earlier in their career. They all tended to have a vision, They were very persistent, they knew they wanted to get something done, They were willing to share the credit with people, highly honest and a lot of integrity, and they rose up in case in situations where there's a lot of crisis, you could say the words great leaders overcome crises, and many of them overcame

crises and really show their leadership skills during those crises. So, David, I wonder, if you're not a leader as a kid, or as a teenager or at college, does that necessarily mean you will be a kid a leader later in life? I mean, do you do you have to start showing some traits basically early on. I wondered if that was also a commonality between some of the folks you've talked to. Most of them were not leaders when they were very young.

In fact, if you take a look at the last let's say a dozen presidents the United States, maybe only Bill Clinton would be somebody who would have been said as a young person, this person could be President United States. And the same as true in other areas. I certainly was not a great leader when I was younger, and many people were not famous when they were young for being Rhodes scholars or Supreme Court clerks or Heisman Trophy winners.

People who become great leaders later in life basically have a tortoise and hair approach. They've worked their way up, they learned some skills, and ultimately luck helps them get get forward. It if you think of your thank your own high school class. Whoever the seat that the senior leader was, the student body present, what happened to that person? You know? Sometimes you know you don't know because they

didn't become famous. I often thought that people in my high school class were going to be conquering the world. And then I've never heard it from someone again. Mine Mine is a pulmonologist in California. He's doing well. Yeah, he's doing okay. He's busy during the COVID pandemic. But um, David, it struck me that you said that this common theme is that people came from this middle class background. I'm wondering. We talked a lot about this idea of a K

shaped recovery. The middle class has gotten smaller in the United States. Do you think it's still possible for people to work their way up to these positions of leadership or has it become so difficult in the United States with student loan dead in the cost of college. The American dream, I think still lives on, but there's no doubt there's an underclass in our country now that for racial or other reasons, has fallen further and further behind.

And I think COVID is going to bring them even further and further behind, because if you don't have technology in the in the COVID era, you're just you're just not able to really survive. So think about all the families that don't have high speed internet at home, or cancer forard to have child care for their children, or can't afford to sound the schools right now. So that's a sad situation. So I do think that the American dream is becoming more elusive for many, many people in

this country. But there are, obviously are people who still believe in the American dream and come from reasonable backgrounds and can work their way up. And obviously some people from the worst backgrounds can work their way up, but

the odds are harder and harder. Well, when you look at the kind of bigger picture, David, in terms of our economy in the future of it, and you watch what's going on in other nations like China, who's definitely on a mission to certainly develop some more sophisticated industries

and certainly develop their domestic economy. Do we need to figure out some new policies and what might those policies be so that the American dream is not more elusive and that it is available to more and more Americans, especially at the lower socioeconomic scale. There's no doubt that our creative activity in this country is the envy of the world. Silicon Valley and all the kind of technologies that have been developed there are the envy of the world.

But we don't have a population base that China does, and it's China becomes more and more capitalistic. I think it's actually gonna, you know, by pass us in size. In terms of economy. The United States will probably be in our lifetime the second largest economy world, not the largest, but you can still rise up and have a very great life in the second largest economy in the world.

But we should recognize that China will be a competitor increasingly in the economic world, and it's going to be difficult for some of us to accept that fact, but it's a reality. If we had one new policy that the incoming Biden administration would put into fact, let's say in their first year, that would help some of those Americans that have been left behind. What would you what do you think it should be? Well? I would say no member of Congress can get their pay unless we

pass bipartisan legislation. Uh that addresses some of the problems. Obviously that's tongue in cheek, but clearly I actually like it. I'm just gonna put it here here, but anyway, go ahead. So I think obviously that the country doesn't work as well as we would like it to work. And we haven't seen bipartisan legislation for a long long time, and we have apparel's appaulin and every time the budget is about to expire. So we have to do a better job.

I don't know whether the new president can do that or not, but clearly the system isn't working as well as the founding fathers intended. That's for sure. We only have about fifteen seconds left. But who is one leader right now? Who you wish you were able to speak with for the book that you haven't been able to speak with yet. Well, I hope this interviewed Joe Biden when he uh takes officer. Before he takes office, I'd

like to talk to him. I've known him for a long time, but I have never interviewed him, So I'm looking forward to that. David, if if you'll indulge us, I'd love to go through some of the names on your list, because it is quite a lineup and just kind of what comes to mind in terms of their

leadership and just talking to them. Jeff Bezos. But Jeff is a person who started relatively late when you think about it, the companies, not that he started, but he's now built it into the company which is now one of the best known companies in the world, and he's become the richest person in the world. But he still has a great deal of humility, I would say, and a pretty good sense of humor. And I think the interview was one of the most interesting ones in the book.

Think about it many many times. The richest person in the world over the past half century have been people have been relatively reclusive. Howard Hughes. Nobody really knew him. J Paul Getty, nobody really knew him. Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos both are pretty accessible and you can get ahold of him, you can see him, you can talk to him. It's not not quite what it used to be. And I love in your book that when you talk

about Jeff Bezos that you had an opportunity. Is it right to have a one percent equity stake in the company you passed? Well, we actually had a opportunity of about we canceled that. We did get we did get one told that at the I p O. So we thought it was going nowhere. That was our biggest mistake. It happens, it could be worse. What about when it comes to someone like Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburgh, who we

lost earlier this year. Yeah, she was a person who waighed about a hundred pounds when I interviewed her at the Street Why in New York. Ninety of those pounds were her brain. Incredibly smart person, but it's very difficult to interview in this sense. Um, when you asked somebody a question interview, you expect an answer within a second or so. But she would pause for twenty seconds or so when you say, oh, she having a senior moment

and she's not hearing me. Was an offensive question, but she was actually thinking about what she wanted to say and then would say it in paragraph form, So she was very very good. Well, and what about someone like Oprah Winfrey, which is just I think for all of us would just I think be so nervous sitting down

with her. But what was that like? Well, it's hard to interview the greatest interview of them all, perhaps, but I've known her a little bit and uh so it wasn't quite the first time i'd met her, so it was it was okay, and uh it went well. But you know, she didn't really need an interviewer. I mean, she's uh, she was giving a master class and how to be interviewed and how to interview. So I was

just mostly sitting there watching. But what'd you want to know as a leader like this, this is all about leadership, And what was it that just kind of stood with you about her? Well, she somebody that came from very very poor background, and now that she's become very famous and wealthy, she's trying to give back. She's involved in philanthropy. But she her greatest skill set, she would say, is

not being an interviewer, but being a listener. And she has empathy with the people she interviews, and that's what she says is her strength. What about yo Yo Ma, Well, yo Yo is somebody I've come to know pretty well through the Kenny Center and he's a person that you know chess. He's the best known and the best cellis in the world. But that's not what he cares about. At this point in his career. He is about sixty

five years old. He cares about other things. He wants to perpetuate the idea that the arts make people better, better people that are humans, and so he's really interested in in in cutting people to learn more about the arts, not just listening to him play. So he spends at least half his life now trying to get people to become more familiar with the arts and appreciate the arts, all kinds of arts. And so he's an infectious personality and he's on the change a little bit because he's

a person who doesn't like to shake hands. He likes to hug people. And in the in the Covid area, it's harder to hug people, so he probably have that ages technique there. I have to say, one of the things I like about the holiday season, David is the Kennedy Center Honors. Um I still talk about led Zeppelin and Hard doing Stairway to Heaven. There's like nothing like it.

But I do look forward to it, and I think about the importance of arts and culture in our community, and I do wonder about the hit that it is all taking because of the pandemic, everything being shut down. You know, what are your hopes and expectations when we get on the other side of this. Well, the performing arts world has been decimated, and I would say probably ten of performing arts arenas or the state or or

venues are not going to probably reopen again. The Kenny Center we are struggling financially as well, obviously Lincoln Center as well, but we will survive for sure. But there's no doubt that we had to lay people off. We've had a furlough people. The Kenny Center Honors will try to do it again in May and some kind of virtual partial virtual and partial and reality, and then we'll try to do it in in December probably as well.

Maybe have two this year or next year if everything works out, but it's hard to put the whole thing together right now when everybody's in a COVID world. Well, David, what do you think the role of the federal government has to be in terms of you know, we can go through a list, whether it's cultural institutions, um, arts and entertainment. I look at the restaurant community, which I think is part of the fabric and culture of our you know, major cities and our society, and they are

also getting decimated. What's the responsibility of the federal government where it feels like that has really been forgotten. Well, yeah, I suppose you work in a food truck. Suppose you work in a restaurant. Uh, you know, you're probably not going to be uh employed that readily right now. And it's a tough situation. Many of these people are not people can readily go get another job so so easily.

So it's very tough. I hope the most important thing we do in the next week or so has passed some legislation that will actually help with the economy and help these people that needed the most. Um. So it's a real sad situation. But the Congress could go home without passing legislation. I think that's really gonna really aren't hurt the economy if that happens. Well, do you think that would have happened when you were working for the Carter and aministration, that we would have had a Congress

that went home. Well, I would say we had our challenges for sure, but there was bipartisan legislation in those days. No major bill until the Obama health care legislation had to ever pass Congress without them bipartisan support, and that idea has gone away. Republicans are afraid to support Democrats

and vice versa. So if Joe Biden can do anything, it's hopefully that he can get people to support some kind of bipartisan compromise some sometime, because otherwise we're just going to be stuck with this kind of same kind of perils of Pauline U Congress for for many, many years into the future. One thing I've been thinking a lot about during this time is the idea that a lot of people have been struggling, and it's been a difficult time for a lot of people, especially for artists.

But I also wonder if we'll look back on this as a time when perhaps some of these artists created some of their best works. Is there any indication at this point, David, that you are seeing that from emerging artists, from up and coming artists, from musicians around the world. Oh, you can see Paul mc he go just coming out with an album that's been very highly rated, and other artists have as well. Willie Nelson has a new album out.

A lot of the older artists are coming out with great things because they they've had to stay at home a bit, and they they're doing these things by themselves. Often, I would say young artists will clearly maybe experimenting now, and I just worry that some people may get disillusioned because they can't afford to support themselves. Really, Nelson and Paul McCartney probably can, but some artists who are just struggling are probably not in a position to really earn

any money right now. Many artists are just not able to really get any so called gigs right now because there's no place to perform. Hey, I want to go back to your list of of leaders that are in your book for a moment um. As we mentioned, we are talking just for our audience. David Rubinstein of the Carlisle Group he's got a new book out, How to Lead, Wisdom from the world's greatest ceo as founders and game changers.

You have some CEOs, And I think about Indrawnwi, former CEO of PepsiCo, tell me a little bit about you know what stood out for you And you know she's a rare breed as a woman, as a black woman. You know, at the head of a spy. We just don't have a lot of them. Well, I think at the time she was running Pepsi, she was the only woman,

immigrant woman running a fortune five hund company. Um, she is, uh somebody that had a technique that she described in the interview where she would write letters to the parents of her senior employees, giving them a kind of report card. And obviously, when your mother and father get a report card singer doing a good job, they will call you up and say what a wonderful boss you have, And it kind of tended to bond the employee with Andrewnui was a very good technique and obviously it's when I

thought of it, maybe I should do as well. When you look out at the landscape today and what's happening across the business world with COVID is there a leader that stands out who really emerged during the pandemic as taking a clear leadership role. Well, there's one person who was stood above everybody else in his name is Tony Faucium.

Although he was criticized for last whole name now right, Well yes, but I mean he was criticized for lots of reasons, and he's had to have UH security because of a lot of the threats and made against him. But the truth is, he did tell the truth from the beginning, and um, he was basically somebody was trying to get things done. And sadly we have three hundred thousand people that have died. Hopefully we can arrest that

with the vaccine and other things. And I do give the credit to the administration for coming up with the vaccine. It was a heroic effort to get it done in less than a year. Usually a vaccine takes four to

seven years. UM. So if we hopefully can get people to take the vaccine, which is not easy to do, and we can let people who are healthcare professionals really um have a big say in what's going on, I think we can make some progress by the middle of the year and forgive me, I spoke internewy of course an Indian American. So forgive me for how I characterized her. Yeah, forgive me, Um, David, But I do want to ask

you why aren't there more women? Why aren't there where isn't there still at this point more diversity when it comes to corporate America. We've been talking about this for decades. Why are we not seeing it? You understand leadership, You understand, like, why why isn't it happening? Well? Um, A couple of reasons. One, you know, since civil of the dawn of civilization, men have tended to be more dominant than women for all

the reasons that we probably know. So it's been only in the last you know what, hundred years and women have had the right to vote. Um. And only in the last twenty years that a woman has been taken seriously as a CEO. Very few. When Katherine Graham was the CEO of Washington Post, she was the only woman running a fortune five company. Um. We now have made progress, but not as much progress in some ways as countries around the world are doing. So we have a long

way to catch up. There's progress, but it's a long way to go. We do see certain states and indeed even measures federally I believe to try to encourage diversity for public companies lines and yeah, yeah, is this there?

Is this the right way to do it? David? Well, some countries have now mandated that there have to be a certain percentage of women on boards, and that's not been done in this country though, um so much, but there has been pros of the head of NASDAC recently suggested that NASTAC listing companies have to do one more than they're doing. And she's a perceus to work at Carlisle, Dina Freeman, and we'll see whether that has an impact. I suspect, you know, if I live long enough, I

will live to see more diversity. But I would wouldn't hold my breath and all of a sudden they're going to be, you know, a majority of women running Fortune five companies the next ten years. I don't think it's unrealistic, but I do think it's realistic to see progress being made. Hey, David, just to wrap up your book is all about looking at talking with you know, all these different leaders, finding commonalities, just getting their story and what it took to rise up.

You know, is there anything that's changed in your leadership as a result of these conversations. Well, I realized that I'm not as good as the leader as I wanted to be. I've learned a lot from these people, and I said, oh, I gotta work harder. So I'm going to start working harder to be a better leader than I than I've been so constantly learning. Do you have a favorite conversation, Well, I really enjoyed the one with

Jeff Bezos. We did it two thousand people and he had a great sense of humor and people were cheering. So it's always good when you have an audience, and that's probably better. I'd like to doing interviews with the big audience. Well, I know our audience certainly enjoyed listening to you. David. Thank you so much, such a wonderful

chunk of time. We really appreciated. David Rubinstein, founder and co executive chairman of the Carlisle Group, host of The David Rubinstein Show, peer to peer conversations on both Bloomberg Radio and Bloomberg TV, and his book Check It Out came out in September. But it's great reading, especially for now. And I'm thinking is people are unfortunately hunkering back home or home for the holidays. How to lead Wisdom from the world's greatest CEOs, founders and game changers broad mac

a Journal. Yeah but you let me drive? No, no, no, who's home? Honey? Please? I want to drive? Just drives the questions drying the Drive to the Globe on Bloomberg Radio. All right, it's time for the Drive to the close. We've just got about eleven minutes left in today's trading day.

Does feel like we're taking a little bit of a breather, a break, if you will, on this Monday, as we continue to watch those virus headlines as deaths from COVID nineteen that certainly will will make you kind of stop for a moment, right, yes, Yeah, in the United States staggering, and we're getting ready for what we think will be probably a rough four to six weeks here. So let's bring in our guest, Gianna Barton. She's co director of Growth Equity at Eaton Vance. She is with us once

again on the phone from Boston. Janna, nice to have you here with Tim and me. How are you How are you doing? Are you still working from home? I am working from home and my kids are working from home as well. You're in good company. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, what's it like around the Boston area, Well, um, you know,

we're all working remotely. But I think as it relates to just you know, the sentiment and come and kind of bringing it back to the market, who would have thought that would have made up as much um, you know work as we have. The market is up over but I think the most important story is that the average stock has lagged and that's good news for stock pickers, and that's what we're kind of focused on as we're um awaiting with the rest of the world and kind

of turning the page on. There's a lot of room for an average stock to continue to lead into the next year. And I think that's the most most important headline that probably is not getting enough attention. So what are the what are the companies? What are the stocks?

Were the names that you're watching? Absolutely so, again going back to the fact that it's been a very narrow market in terms of its leadership, Only tech, consumer, comp services and materials have outperformed, which means that we've got mature wlady of the market that has lagged and top five stocks just to give you a stack, stat Stats has driven more than two thirds of the overall markets returned, So that means that those top five had had a

returned here today that has been averaging about fifty while the rest of the indirects has returned nine percent. Right, if so, we're focused on healthcare industrials and other pockets that have lagged because you're getting both the value proposition

and growth. All right. I know there's those few, you know, handful of names off the charts, but you know every time Jana As somebody says, ah, yeah, yeah, that it's done it, let's go into the value names and go into the rest of the market, and then all of a sudden those names just take off again. So how do you reconcile that? Uh? And I know momentum sometimes creates momentum, but these are huge successful companies um and

you kind of understand their market dominance. Absolutely. I think growth can continue to do well and value can do can do well as well. And I think seeking those growth that are reasonable price story will never go out

of style. And that's why I keep going back to healthcare because it's been such a laggerate and you're getting true value because right now healthcare is trading at over twenty discount on the next twelve month basis on a multiple while having a very solid top line in earnings growth story, so you can pick up that growth but actually get it at a discount relative to the market. Same with industrials. So I don't think you have to

be forced to make a choice. I think right now balanced approach and one that is active and very selective UM will do well in the next year. How much attention do you pay to stimulus or lack thereof, and that changing your own outlook for UM plenty UM, And I think you bring up a really good point, which is if you look at the performance to date, much

of it has been driven by by sentiment. UM. Again, you know, if you look at just the multiples in the market at the beginning of the year, there were about seventeen times and right now they're just shy of twenty two times, So basically you're paying up for earnings on the com and much of that sort of sentiment shift is driven by our optimism on liquidity and obviously the vaccine, a lot of things going right for the overall global economy, so UM obviously more stimulus, and so

far we have very positive both fiscal and monetary support is a good thing for both the multiples and the market. So when you gather your team virtually on a Zoom or whatever platform yana that you're using, UM, what are the things that you say, listen, we got to make sure we're keeping an eye on this and that you know, in terms of kind of the unpredictables. I don't want to say black swans, but the things that could either be ultra positive for the financial markets are ultra negative

for the financial markets. Come. That's a great question. I think you know, investing is all about looking forward, and unfortunately, when you're predicting the future, there's a high probability that you will be wrong. Just read all the headlines that we started there was like, so why are we talking to you that I'm just going to put that out there. But I think you know what we're asking our analysis tell me what the world will look like three to

six months from today. When unfortunately you mentioned the three hundred thousand UM statistic daily. Um, you know occurrences of picking up COVID, But I think we're going to start tracking, um, you know what percentage of the population has been vaccinated, and that will be a really great pool to drive back that consumer into the market and not us going

back to doing things that we haven't done in months. Right, And there will also be a lot of recovery, particularly with the within the consumer space as it relates to travel, of restaurants, all of those sort of areas of the market that have been left for dead just because we have to have this shift in both the consumption and just the way we live everyday life. So I think what we're asking them to do is kind of go into the future and tell me what the earnings recovery

will look like. And many of these companies are going to recover um and we're already seeing evidence of that, which is a little bit of pool on top line drives a lot of margin recovery, just very briefly, because we only have about ten seconds left. What is your timeline for sort of this return to normalcy. Well, that's

a tough question. I think you know six to twelve months as it relates to stocks, because they're leading indicator, But in terms of just economic activity, I think it will be longer UM, and I think you know, a lot of it has to do with the vaccine people feeling comfortable and as getting access to it. Yes, our kids not worth not doing homework school or school at home. Yeah,

definitely right Uh Yeanna, Thank you so much. And by the way, Yana managing the eaton van it's focused growth opportunities fun, which is really beating most of its peers over the last three years and five years. Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or at Bloomberg dot com, and be sure to check out our daily radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, and be sure to watch us to on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News