Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio.
Well before the Thanksgiving festivities, we got an economic feast of data earlier this morning, ahead of the holiday, the government data showing the US economy expanded at a solid pace in the third quarter, largely powered by a broad based advance and consumer spending and steady business investment GDP increasing at a two point eight percent annualized pace in the third quarter. That's the second estimate, so second read of the figures from the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The
economy's primary growth engine consumer spending. You me everybody, we are spending invetsing three and a half percent tim that was the most this year.
And then the Fed's preferred measure of underlying and flight accelerated in October from a year ago. It kind of helps explain policymakers more cautious approach to lowering interest rates. With our roundup on everything when it comes to the US economy with us as Bloomberg News International Economics and Policy correspondent Michael McKee here in the Bloomberg Business Week studio.
Mike, it's a lot you're pointing at me, Carolyn.
Think it when you go for Thanksgiving dinner, do you like sit down and you walk in and you're like, you're surrounded by family? Like, all right, Mike, So what's going on with the economy? Do they is like that? The question?
Sometimes sometimes you get that, and you know, like on a plane last night, somebody recognized me and said, what's.
Going on with it?
Was it?
Are they asking about tariffs now too?
I think it's a little too early for that. I mean, obviously other reporters and political types do, but the average person, they haven't focused on that yet.
They will.
So is it okay for somebody on an airplane or in an airport to come up to Michael McKee and ask them what's going on in the economy?
Do you welcome that kind of attimp.
Wear? Let me put it this way, It is so seldom.
I don't believe.
I am flattered. I'm happy that people are watching and listening to Bloomberg.
They all listen and watch you in a big way. All right, big data dump, tell us about what we need to know about the numbers we got today.
They were sort of status quoish in the sense that we are still spending. As you mentioned, three and a half percent is the revised figure for personal consumption in third quarter GDP was three point seven. But you took that pair of shoes back, I think, and that you got the refund that brought it down a little. But then the personal spending numbers came in at a reasonable level, up four tenths of eight percent. It was six tenths
in the month of September. But you have to realize too that September is back to school, so maybe there was a little bit of extra spending. Then it's going to be interesting to see, but we should be set up okay for the holiday spending time. In the report, we saw a little bit of an increase in the personal savings rate, which suggests people still have some money.
And the best news of all, well, it's mixed news because I have to set up the predicate that PCE price indexes, the FEDS measure went up a little bit two point three percent on a year over year basis for the headline two point eight. For the core, it gets as farther away from their two percent, But wages and salaries went up half a percent and that pushed them up above the rise in inflation.
So so that's the reason for the rise.
No, that's the reason why people can keep spending even though inflation may bother them. They're still making more money. They don't. We had his argument with Matt Miller on on his show this morning. You know, he, like everybody else, says, yeah, but inflation is something that people do to me. They raised prices on me, whereas if I get a raise, it's all because of me because I'm great.
Well, that is great. I understand why where he's coming out.
That it is funny about that, but it is true of everybody. That's a thing that psychologists have found to be true, and it's one reason why even though inflation has come down, people are still upset.
So explain that a little bit more, because I think that's a really important point, especially post election, is understanding the relationship between wages and inflation.
Well, wages don't cause us inflation. Inflation causes wages because the causality is that prices go up, and then people say, I got to get even, so I go to my boss and I ask for more money. And that's certainly what you see when when you see the pattern bargaining and union negotiations, and I guess the rest of us are all getting wages increases this year.
We hope not some of those Starbucks folks. But remember we did that story.
But people do think that they get pay increases because they deserve them. And I wouldn't argue, but it does. You know, you have to keep in mind that the relationship between inflation and your wages increases what matters. And if, as we've seen for the last year and a half, wages are rising faster than inflation, then we're better.
Off, all right, So we can kind of keep on shopping, which is a good thing. Hey, listen, is there anything though new or slightly altered you know in the data said or not really? You said status quota to begin with, So there's nothing of that we should be like, nothing that's.
Going to change the course of the Fed's thinking at this point, because they knew going in what the PCEE prices would be. The economists can figure that out. Jobless claims were still basically unchanged from the week before. There's no sign that companies are laying people off. The trade balance went down in part because it went up in the month of September because companies were bringing in products because of the possible port strike. But that will be
technically a contributor to growth in the fourth quarter. So there's some good news. And GDP as strong suggests that growth will probably still be strong in the fourth quarter, and that was not expected at the beginning of the year.
I'm going to be in here on Friday talking a little bit about Black Friday and getting an understanding of what people are spending money on. But I'm also going to be hounded by PR people throughout the entire day trying to give me updates on consumer spending. Can I pay attention to any of that or will we not know how Black Friday went and what it means for.
Well, Yeah, it'll be a whole bunch of different few weeks. There'll be a whole bunch of different measures of how Black Friday went. You'll get store traffic from some people, You'll get some spending numbers from credit card companies, You'll get other spending numbers from the retailers, and none of it really means anything. It's a sort of an artificial construct.
We know that it's one of the busiest times, not the busiest shopping day of the year, but we know it's one of the busiest times of the year, and that weekend it kicks off, et cetera. But really, what you end up doing is sort of looking at the spending numbers that we saw today, the numbers for November and December, and you average them out. Because one thing that's happened is the retailers have all started advertising cheaper stuff in October now for the holidays, and they've pulled
forward a lot of spending. So maybe some of the people who would have gone and stood in line outside of store. Fortunately a lot of stores don't do that anymore. Thanksgiving, those people have already spent some money, so we may not see, you know, the kind of big burst you see saw in the.
Past, gener little shopping last Sunday in the city and it would you give me tbdk?
But it surprised hesitate there instead.
Of saying nothing, would you like some skinny jeans?
No?
Actually I do live in Brooklyn.
I could do that. But what's interesting is it wasn't as crowded as I thought, but there were lots of sales forty off some significant sales, so I thought it was interesting. One quick last question thirty forty seconds. What economy does president like Donald Trump is he handed on day one in the White House and how much of it is the result of the past administration and of FED action of the past four years.
Well, it's probably going to be good, better than we thought it would be. The economy has strength going into the new year, unless some exogenous event happens that we can't predict, or unless he, through some of his tweeting, etc. Makes some sort of problem for the economy. But basically he will inherit a good economy as he did from Barack Obama. So he is lucky in that sense, and I'm sure it will be all due to him, But he can't take any credit for anything that happens before January twentieth.
I just don't think it's an important narrative because we talk about this a lot with past presidents, how they are inheriting really the policies that people have been in place right the previous administration. Michael McKee, Happy Thanksgiving, You can now start your holiday. Thank you, thank you, thank you favorite pie.
I tend to like Apple. I guess I'm relatively traditional.
I have a piepole going on. What you can, I'm going to make it can three? Ah see all right? Bloomberg News International Economics and Policy Correspondent Michael McKee.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen on Apple car Play and then brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
So bloombergs Christa c put out a story recently reporting out in our Bloomberg Deals newsletter, and what she wrote is that everywhere, activists are feeling more emboldened to push for bigger, more significant asks at larger companies. Elliott leading the pack with another megacaf campaign. They called on Honeywell to break itself up. There's a lot tim that's going on when it comes to activist.
Investors of activists often mirror market optimism as the market trends up with the hope that the new administration will relax regulations and bring down interest rates. That activists are actually bold and busier, but then there's this other side of things where it's like the anti ESG movement, like we saw out of that lawsuit earlier today filed by Ken Paxton out of Texas and ten other states. Curious to see what our next guest has to say. It's been a bit since we last spoke with her, so
great to be checking back in with Jennifer Grancio. She's head of ETFs over at TCW. She joins us from Los Angeles. Good to have you back with us, Jennifer, How are you.
I'm very well, nice to be here.
We were kind of reminiscing back to when we last talked to you and we were at Milkin back in twenty twenty one. It was like that weird October Milkin event because things had been put on hold as a result of the pandemic. Things were different then. Engine Number One was an independent company. Now from about a year you've been at TCW. Just give us an update as to how the integration is going and sort of where you are now.
Thank you, So Engine number One to TCW.
So at TCW, you know, we've been an active manager for more than fifty years, started as a concentrated active manager and have a very large business around the public and private fixed income.
So the engine number one.
Acquisition about a year ago got TCW into the ETF business. And if you look at our ETF franchise today at TCW, we've got five terrific equity funds. We could talk more about that, and then much recently, more recently we've added and converted mutual funds and we now have six fixed
income funds. So, as a kind of very careful, fundamental, active manager, we think the market needs these thematic products on the equity side, and then on fixed income, we think the market needs better tools to deliver income and portfolios.
What do you mean in terms of better tools right now? I mean the fixed income market has been kind of a wild one this year, and I feel like go back a year in the narrative around how aggressive the FED was going to be that didn't pan out. But tell us how you are thinking about that and the types of products that are needed in the fixed income world today for investors.
So, if you think about portfolio construction over the very long term, you know immediate term to very long term, you think about fixing income and a portfolio as providing
defense and ballast as well as return. And so if we look at portfolios today, markets have been very interesting for the last however many years, and honestly, you know, I think investors still have too much cash, and so fixed income is a way both to diversify the portfolio and to kind of move out of cash and into more income producing assets.
And so what we've done at TCW is, we know.
That everybody's got something at the core total return portfolio today, and so what we've done is we've launched six products that let you, in a very smart and considered way, have total return plus income or I'll actually leg into additional layers of income in the portfolio.
And that's what the TCW ets do.
I am curious too about you know, why now in terms of switching the funds, some of the fixed income funds, converting them from mutual funds to ETFs, why now is the time to do it?
Yeah, if you look at the market, you know, the ETF market has been around for a long time now, but the use of active strategies in the ETF wrapper is really accelerated in growth. And so this year, at this point in the year, we probably have the thirty percent growth and flows into active ETFs. It's about eight
hundred billion in total now. And so as TCW we serve institutional investors, we serve wealth and retirement clients, and a lot of those clients love the mutual funds, and as people are building wealth oriented taxable portfolios, we have a lot of investors that really are looking for ways to use our products and models, use our products in.
The simple vehicle and the ETF that we've gotten used to.
And so our ETF range is coming in alongside our great mutual funds.
Flexer is total return.
And a yield product. Use is the first of its kind way to add yield. Let an active manager select and add for you, and we can talk a little bit more about that. Other ways to look at income. In the case of bank loans are high yield. We think the index products actually aren't the rank tools. So we've also launched ETFs in that space.
Remind me again, though, just go back, what kind of flows have you been seeing into the fixed income world, especially post election. I'm just curious what you've been seeing more less, give me some context.
Yeah, flows into fixed income have picked up, for sure.
I think listen, we would all love to have a crystal ball and know exactly what's going to happen. But I think flows into fixed income have picked up, but there's still a lot of money in cash, and some of that money that's in cash could be coming into fixed income products that could be coming into things like Triple A clos that's another ETF we just launched right where it's not sitting in cash. It's higher return, but
it's also very safe. So we think that people are putting money back to work, they need the right tools to do it.
Hey, listen, one thing we were thinking about prepping for this and so great to get an update of kind of what you guys are doing at TCW. But I have to say, you know, we thought about that conversation at milk and I mean when number you know, into Number one came on the scene, we were like, who are they and they're taking on this massive you know, integrated oil company, energy company that was exon the activism that Number one did. Little note fund waged a battle
and one got seats on the board. When you look back at that moment, what was so key for it about you? For you guys as a firm, as an activist.
Yeah, I mean I think what Engine number one did was really kind of looking at the fundamental changes that we see unfolding in the industry in terms of how we use power, in terms of how we use energy, in terms of restoring and manufacturing, and frankly, energy companies had a way to capitalize on that. They were taking advantage. Exon needed to do a better job of capital allocation, which they've done. And at TCW, you know, we're always
looking at how things change over time. We're active managers, and so what we did at Exon, I think, was to make a point that the world is changing around energy and power use and these companies can, companies like Exon can do a good job of capital allocation and take advantage of that.
And we still do that across our whole business at TCW.
We always looking at fundamental risks and you know, economically material risks.
And the one of the funds that.
Came over from ENTIONE number one to TCW, net Z is still a great way to kind of invest in that energy and power transition. At the same time, at TCW, we've created this range of fixed income right ets so that you can also I'm that part of the portfolio build for income so there's a lot of very exciting opportunities to come alongside and investor portfolios. This allocation to the index and the weight on big tech names that probably is too heavy.
But Jennifer sitting in cash, can I ask you?
Can I ask one thing though? You know, when you know, I think we all thought fossil fuel growth, that this was going to be the end of Exxon being able to really kind of really continue to kind of grow in that area. All three of the board picks that you guys put in voted in favor of the sixty billion dollar acquisition of Pioneer Natural Resources per basin Behemoth. So like, when you look at that, so obviously not
an end to Exon's production. I think their oil production it's highest and its one hundred and forty year history just thirty forty seconds here, So is it still a win?
Like?
How do you see that?
Yeah, our work with Exon was around raising the stop price, which ends to number one. You know, changed the stop price of Exon seventy percent. It encouraged Exon to add other skills to the board and then independently Exon and the boarded Exon have found ways to make money in kind of new and greater businesses as well as to smartly invest to basically meet the demand we have for
energy and power. It's us as consumers that are using AI and data centers and phones, and so they have a very different discipline now than they did before that campaign, and we think if that's an important investment theme.
All right, So glad to get some time with you. Happy Thanksgiving, Jennifer Grancio over at TC.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.
All right, are we there yet? It's soon to be replaced by do we need this? Get to Thanksgiving and then you gotta do shopping.
After I was over at somebody's house over the weekend. Their names will go somebody. They were anonymous, And there was a peloton. There was a peloton in the basement. It was being used as a drying wreck.
How many pieces of workout equipment have I certainly had in my homes and it's like, all of a sudden, like the clothes are hanging on it, and it's really sad.
Just throwing it out there.
It's really sad, all right. Great story that gets into kind of what to expect. I love how the story by our team here at Bloomberg. It starts off with driving six hours for used rowing machines, slashing Christmas budgets by eighty percent, shopping for gifts starting around Easter. Welcome everybody to the twenty twenty four holidays, where inflationary shoppers are going to extreme lengths to get a deal. Tim, I've already bought some things and it's like Cubon's.
Or discuss I already learned earlier today. Nothing for me, but that's fine, there's still time.
I just said'm a last minute shot.
Holiday shopping already underway ahead of Black Friday with more Why shoppers are asking themselves do we really need this?
With us here in the.
Studios Bloomberg News Consumer team leader Emily Cone, So, Emily, do consumers really need this stuff? And why is this question being asked right now?
So?
The big theme of this year on the retail beat has been lower discretionary spending. Consumers are largely making the same amount that they've been making, but groceries cost more. Essential goods cost more, so that leaves less discretionary dollars on the table to be spent on things like leggings and things that you don't necessarily need a rowing machine TVs. So that gives retailers a lot to be anxious about this holiday season.
Are they also anxious because it's a holiday? It's shortened shopping season because Thanksgiving is coming so late.
That's exactly right. Thanksgivings later in the month of November, which means the period between Thanksgiving and Christmas is shorter than usual. There's a lot to be anxious about.
It's interesting, though, because we also got some consumer data out this morning, or some economic data, I should say, that shows that consumers are still at least the economy is still in a place.
We're making a little more money.
But you know, as we learned with the election, you know, and why people voted the way they did. I think the post mortem is certainly still being done. You can't always necessarily trust that data. Consumers certainly don't feel like they have a lot of money and they're in a good place right now? How are you guys looking at it?
So this is where we start to talk about what we talk about a lot, the bifurcation of consumers. And you see that when you look at stores like Walmart and Target. Walmart's doing really well. They're outperforming most retailers right now, and I think that speaks to the fact that, yes, consumers are ill spending, but they're looking for a deal. They're pricing down. So someone who might have been doing their grocery shopping at Whole Foods might be going to
Walmart today. So Walmart is doing well. And then a store like Target, which really bets on you walking in for one thing and then filling up your your cart with a million.
Other charge you don't need.
That's that's the kind of thing that we're we're seeing a lot of right now. Target. Target has a lot at stake this Black Friday. They have what they are hoping is going to draw on a lot of people, a Taylor Swift book.
I keep hearing about this. I heard them talk about it unlike either surveillance or intelligence this morning.
So this is a blockbuster book deal that can only be bought in stores on Friday. So It'll be available online on Saturday, but only in stores on Friday. And this is Taylor Swift.
Is just the official Taylor Swift Eras tour book.
It is.
I think that's exactly the title.
Yes, oh my god, how much does this go for thirty nine to ninety nine tim okay book?
It's a lot for a book, yeah.
Than a ticket though, or going to the tour. That's for sure.
You were in Toronto over the weekend.
I was not heard she was weepy. Oh really because it was emotional because I think she's, like, you know, finishing up these different legs of the tour. Having said that, so discounting, I already saw it last week doing some shopping on Sunday, some serious like I keep saying this forty percent off at Levi's. I'm just telling you we are. Are we seeing more discounting than normally.
Definitely seeing more discounting than normally. A lot of retailers are retailers are really desperately in need of a turnaround this season. So the stores we're closely watching are Macy's, Nike, Cole's, Best Buy. Many of these companies have relatively new CEOs, so they're trying different strategies this year, and then a lot of stores are also looking to see their see
their e commerce grow. So a store like Walmart to speaking to the online deals, offering twice as many online deals as they did last year.
So let's talk.
Let's end there, because you're you're in charge of the team that sort of fanning out all over the country getting an understanding of how consumers are feeling on Black Friday. I mentioned this note from Deloitte that was out earlier this week. It's a survey that says, for the first time, online only retailers beat out all other retail formats is
the preferred way consumers want to shop. How are retailers, brick and mortar retailers getting people into stores apart from the Taylor Swift book, getting people into stores if they want to be shopping online.
Yeah, I mean that's what we're that's what we're going to watch for on on Friday. I think piece of shoppers in stores is expected to slow. The growth is expected to be slower than it was last year, and we are watching. But best Buy is bringing back doorbusters, which is something that brings to mind, like twenty ten, early twenty tens when people were like, but stores.
Are careful opening up Thanksgiving night. Right, We've gotten away from that. We're seeing that.
Over this is an act.
That's great. That that's all.
I agree, Yeah, I agree with you.
It's like imagine being the workers who are like leaving Thanksgiving to go do this.
Stop at people you can shop on Friday morning. Listen, We're going to be listening to all of the coverage that you and the team are doing. I know Tim's going to be talking to a lot of the people. So thank you.
Thank you.
Emily Cone, consumer team leader at Bloomberg News. Right here in our studio.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us Live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen on Apple card Play and then brout auto with a Bloomberg Business Act or want us Live on YouTube.
Earlier this month, of Luber News colleague Jennifer Dedlouy reported that President Biden's administration is setting out plans for the US to triple nuclear power capacity by twenty fifty. Demand climbing for the tech as a round the clock source of carbon free power. We've talked about we have the need for energy generation as a result of what's going
on with AI servers and the like. Well, under a roadmap being unveiled earlier this month, the US would deploy an additional two hundred gigawatts of nuclear energy capacity by mid century through the construction of new reactors, plant re starts, and upgrades to existing facilities. In the short term, the White House aims to have about thirty five gigawats of
new capacity operating in just over a decade. For some context, well, nuclear accounted for about one hundred gigawats of installed electricity generation capacity in the US and twenty twenty three, So yeah, that would be a big jump.
All right. So let's get to Joe Kletcha because he's hoping to help the United States get to that level. He is chief nuclear officer of the Nuclear Company, which is looking to build a series of nuclear power plants across the United States. He joins us on this Wednesday from Evans, Georgia. Hey, Jo, nice to have you back with us and talking about the work you guys are doing. Remind our world exactly what you are setting to do, because you haven't built any plants yet.
Correct, that's correct. Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here and sharing some great information about the nuclear industry with you and your base. Yeah, we aim to really develop and deploy new nuclear at large scale. You really kick us off with some exciting statistics and also some monumental growth that we're expecting to see.
On the nation's grid and really globally.
We're aiming to help deliver in a way that we've never seen before, which is bringing clean, firm, sustainable power to the grid that will help.
Solve some of these the issues we're going to.
See with the growth of AI, the growth of electrification related to vehicles and manufacturing.
And we believe that doing new.
Nuclear construction in a way that is design, once, rinse and repeat many times at scale will get us into a position where we can really drive down the costs and create a product that is much needed for national security frights.
How do you do this?
And you can answer this question in a way that other people can't because you worked at Southern Company as operations director for the vocal units one and two, and then you also transitioned oversee Vocal units three and four. So these are very expensive. They took years, decades there were billions of dollars over budget. How do you not repeat that at the nuclear company? Like, how are you going to do that differently?
Yeah, I think it's I think it's a great question. I get asked this question a lot. And Yes, my career started in the US Navy as a sub mariner working on nuclear submarines, and I've progressed through many utilities operating and maintaining nuclear facilities, and as you mentioned, had the great opportunity to help with the Vogel project, which was a monumental effort by Southern Company.
Many lessons learned.
The simplest way to help people understand this is this was a first of a kind build in our country with a first of a kind technology. We need to continue to use the lessons learned from projects like Vogel and many others that have occurred around the world to move us from a first of a kind project into what we call enth of a kind. So we got to get through the early stages of capturing lessons learned earned on what is a really really great design, and
there's many others out there. You continue to use this same design, develop use those lessons learned. We think we can get forty percent efficiencies through lessons learned. We also believe there's twenty to thirty percent savings in the use of digital technologies, whether those be digital twins, three D scans, drones, other technologies that are available today that weren't necessarily available when these nuclear projects were occurring in the past.
That is our path to.
Really getting the costs of nuclear down and getting it in a position where it can provide what a lot of other forms of energy cannot provide, and that's the security to the grid to provide that firm ninety three percent plus capacity factor of clean energy.
But you know, the plants that were started by Southern Company, I just want to go back to right, considered a milestone in US nuclear power construction, but they were seven years later that originally planned and a budget of more than double the preliminary projected cost of over thirty billion dollars. I would assume making nuclear power plants is difficult forgive by starcasm, but we know that this is not it. And you know, Tim and I were talking before we
got going. I had a dad who's an engineer who worked in the early space program and putting men on the moon and guidance systems and the system of government contracts of like low cost provider often being at the top of the list as a priority makes me a little hinky when we're talking about nuclear power. How do we get it right? How do we do it safely? How do we do it without the cost overruns?
Yeah?
So I think those are all great points, and there are obviously something they're problems that we are trying to solve at the Nuclear Company, and I believe we will solve again. The number one thing is let's design a technology that works extremely well, and let's continue to rebuild that technology many times so we can really capture or the lessons learned and then get the cost benefits out of capturing those lessons.
So what is the different technology from maybe what was done by the Southern Company versus what you guys are looking to do. Break it down for us.
Yeah, So we are not a technology provider. We are a developer and we are a deployer. So we're we're going to develop these projects, whether you know related to where they're going to be cited, which partners we're going to work with, and then we have the team that's going to come in and perform the project management and deployment to get these from the numbers that you estimated down to half of what those have historically been through what I said before, the use of technologies, getting the
right systems in place, locking that design down. Remember, when you're doing a first of a kind project, there are a lot of lessons that come out of that, and if you don't capture those lessons and continue to do it, then you've just thrown away all the value you get out of doing a technology.
It'd be like if Henry.
Ford developed the model T, built one and said that was way too hard to do.
I'm not going to build anymore.
You've got to keep iterating on that process to get it to a point that you get to the end of a kind cost on these technologies.
It's a very capital intensive process, to say the least building a nuclear power plant in terms of where your role is and just where the money is coming from. Give everyone an update and you guys are a startup, but give everyone an update on how much you've raised and how you think you'll be able to get there.
Yeah.
So we have investors on the company side, specific to the nuclear company that are investing.
To really fund our company.
We'll continue through the process of a startup company to do our rounds of funding as needed. Specific to projects. We leverage public private partnerships and then we'll be pulling in different investors associated with the public private investor partnerships
to drive the funding of the projects themselves. So we plan to roll out more information in the first quarter of next year related to where that fund is coming from and who those potential partners are, But for now, we don't want to share any more detailed information.
Can you tell us where some of the projects you're looking at would go?
Yeah?
At a high level, our theory is we're going to focus on projects that we can build quickly. We believe we need to bring We need to be building now. We don't need to be waiting on technologies. There's technologies
available that can be built now. So with that said, we are looking at sites and we have an algorithm that helps with our site selection process that focuses on sites that already have some form of licensing and environmental work already completed, so we could start these projects sooner rather than later.
So Jo, help me understand something. So, as you said, you're a project management company, you're not a technology company, so you're not actually building them. It's like you're a middleman. It sounds like right in terms of getting these done. Why do we need a middleman? We want to just ultimately come through the government or utilities or states or power companies figuring it out. Why do we need a middleman?
Is this more of an investor play, which is certainly of interest to the Bloomberg audience who always looking for a different ways of investing, But is that what this is mostly about?
Yeah, I would say we're more of an orchestrator than a middleman.
We certainly want to work the front end from an investment perspective and a financial perspective to make sure there's models where large utilities don't have to take this capital risk all on their balance sheet.
So that's part of the problem we're solving.
But we've also pulled together a team of experts that have built these projects recently in the United States and elsewhere that we're building the best project management team around to be able to go and really help the utilities and partner through our consortium to drive down these costs quicker.
What we've seen in the past.
In the seventies and eighties when these facilities were being built, every utility would go about this on their own and they'd all want to do it a different way, so you never truly got to that end of a kind cost. We believe by using our consortium of utilities OEMs hyper scalers, we can bring more power to this and we can we can really use the rinse and repeat method to drive these costs down.
Put no, I kind of understand the model, but let me just ask you then, who takes the capital risk and who actually takes the responsibility of making sure that it's a safe plant? Ultimately?
Yeah, so again public private partnership, So we'll be working with the government on part of the capital risk. Will also be focusing with our investors to take on that capital risk, so it's not put directly onto utilities or rate base with more of a build transfer model, if you will. As far as who controls the safety the legs.
So does that also mean that taxpayer risk? If the government's involved, it's also taxpayer risk? Right, potentially.
It could be.
Now again, we'll release more information on the ACT for programs we're looking to use in the first quarter of next year, but I'll just leave it at public private partnerships.
For now and then yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, the safety aspects.
So part of our consortium is going to be large utilities that have historically operated these facilities for years.
They would be the.
Licensee and the ultimate owner of these projects once, once the build is completely.
Is this a model just twenty five seconds that really is for the US? Or I mean we're Europe and elsewhere outside the US are already kind of all in on nuclear? Is that part of it? And forgive me, I only got about twenty seconds here.
Yeah, yeah, I'll be quick.
So we initially, you know, we're building this company to help support the US market, but we are receiving a lot of interest overseas with all of the new nuclear projects.
Going on there, and there's a lot of help needed in those areas.
Interesting stuff. Stay in touch as you can share more with us. Joe Kletcha, chief nuclear officer of the Nuclear Company the Journal. How about you let me drive?
Oh no, no, no, no, who's gone, honey?
Please, I'll do the driving gravels, let's mate, I want to try it.
It's good question.
This is the drive to the globe. Well yd Don on Bluebird Radio.
All right, TikTok, everybody, we've got just about twenty minutes left. She's under about nineteen minutes left in today's trading session. Charlie breaking down the trade on this Wednesday Thanksgiving eve. I'm looking at the major industry groups in the S and P five hundred, tim and you've got you know, most of them are down information technology. We talked about this, those big megacap tech names. They are really uh, the drag on the trade today as a group down about
one point four percent. Real estate's up about seven tenths of well, say your best performing major industry group in the SMP.
Okay, let's see what Kathy N. Whistle is thinking about this. She's managing director at Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management. She joins us from Palm Beach, Florida.
Kathy, Happy Thanksgiving? How are you?
Hey?
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well. Thanks for having me today.
Yeah, thanks for coming back. Hey, we haven't had a chance to catch up with you since the election, so I just wanted to start there with politics. You are joining us from Palm Beach, Florida, so kind of close to the epicenter and.
Tomorrow Lago lately. We're just wondering, just kidding, but.
I am wondering sort of how you're thinking, if you're thinking anything differently given what we saw earlier this month.
Yeah, absolutely, I think that, you know, history has shown that over long periods of time, the outcome of an election doesn't necessarily make an impact on the markets. But I do think that we have to think about regulations and certain changes that might be coming that will help
move the markets a little bit more. And I think that's what we saw over the last couple of weeks, and what we're seeing in the last you know, last six hours or so is a little pause or a breather because we've had quite a run up leading up to the election, and of course in the last couple of weeks as well.
All Right, so you know, it's funny we just come back from Schwab Impact twenty twenty four out on the West Coast, which cheap plug here. I'm just going to say, our weekend show is all about it. In the in conversations, it did feel like Kathy there's a little bit of a wait and see mode when it comes to tax policy, trade tariffs. What ultimately was said on the campaign trail and what ultimately gets put into effect. Because there's some things a president can do, there are some things you
need Congress to do. So are you in is it safe to say? Also just kind of wait and see and I don't know. Maybe it's three months into the new year, maybe it's six months, maybe it's one month. How are you kind of gaming it out?
Yeah? In terms of gaming it out, I think it is important to have clients start, you know, if they have been sitting in cash, it is time to put some money to work. Days where we're getting a pause or a pullback are great times to do that. There are areas that we particularly like, areas that might be deregulated a little bit more energy, financials. We're starting to
see some bigger numbers hit those sectors. So I think getting clients comfortable with the idea that we have a long runway here and we want to start getting them invested if they are not fully invested at this point. So again, some money on the sidelines for short term needs, you know, cash liquid type investments, but then your longer term goals, retirement and things like that, you need to be invested in equities. And then also in terms of
the fixed income side. I still really like municipal bonds. I still think they're very valuable for our clients, and they're still pricing fairly well, it's still a buyer's opportunity.
Interesting.
What about the cash on the sidelines right now? You mentioned it is time if you do have cash to actually move it into start doing. I will tell you, Kathy, I keep getting emails from the they're not money markets, but like the highyield savings accounts that I have like a teeny bit of money in. Yeah, and it's like it's like your interest rate is changing, you know, your APR do something tim Yeah, well no, I mean it's it's like we're paying you less to have the money in here.
Yeah.
The debate that Carol and I often have is like, Okay, that's seven trillion dollars that's on the sidelines and money market funds. Where does it go? Does does any of it go into the equity market, does it all go into the bond market? Does it stay in cash? What happens to it?
I think it's probably a little bit of a split. So for those clients or people who are looking to get hired deal, you're seeing it all as you'll cut your hires hire.
Legging to start. Hey, Kathy, hang on a second, we're going to try and clean up your line because it's a little bit not very clear. So we want to make sure we can hear you and our audience can. So we're going to reconnect with you, but we're going to come back. We're talking with Kathy and Twistle managining director at Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management Theory.
I know what's going on.
Everybody's like youtubing how to safely fry turkeys right now that my brother has. I've never fried a turkey. I've I have seen it happen on FaceTime.
Uh did it one year? What do you think?
At the back?
It was fine.
We did two turkey.
I was gonna ask, where do you do that? You have to have like a big old driveway.
We did.
I can't remember what we did. We have like a fire pit or like of something that we did, and I can't remember how my husband did it, but we had one turkey on the inside and one because he wanted to try.
Like, what do you think?
I don't remember.
They're very quick. It's quick.
Yeah, it's very crazy doing it in the oven. I like it. I like the I like the bird cooking all day. Sorry turkey, yeah all right, no pardon for me, no part for my turkey. Sorry, No, I love it. I love it cooking all day. You know, it's in the fridge, it's the brine, it's in the bag, it's.
Sits for a lot happening. Now, is this what's happening at the Master Household? Already?
You're going to go home tonight and there's going to be like, is the bird in the oven yet?
Is that tomorrow?
No?
That starts I think I don't think it's it starts tomorrow. Thinks that in the morning. And uh, my daughter and my husband will do. It's really good. What about you? Will you? You just show up a yeah.
We're really lucky.
We're going to some cousins like we they're my parents, my mom's cousins. We're very close with them, kind of consider them like aunts and uncles. A lot of people going, a lot of little kids. We are in charge of bringing cheese, cheese, which is a really good if you know me.
I hear there's a few cheese shops in Brooklyn.
If you know me, this is a good thing for me to bring because I love chees well.
For those who don't know Tim well, although his desk often there's like a clutter of cheese paraphernalia, usually Jesus already been eaten.
It's a great way to get protein.
I agree.
Fill you up anyway, I agree?
I agree.
Is Kathy back with it?
I don't know it's Kathy back, right, She's not back.
So I'm still going to talk about Thanksgiving.
All right.
I have to say it's my favorite holiday. I don't know.
I love it.
I love food. I'm actually doing just for those of you if you haven't answered yet, I am doing a poll on your favorite pies. I try to do it every year, and I got to pull it up and just see what's trending in terms of uh so favorite pie, apple, pecan, pecan, pumpkin or other. I know what's a top of the list.
Do you like pie, pumpkin? Do you like pie pumpkins? The top of the list.
No, it's apple thirty six percent. That's their favorite pie. Huh yeah, the pumpkin thirty percent. Hey, Kathy's back with us. Kathy antwhistle over at Morgan Stanley. Kathy, forgive the technical problems got about forty five seconds. Your parting thought, as we get ready just another month or so and we're done with twenty twenty four, how are you thinking about twenty twenty five.
Yes, I think it's time to think about that. To position properly, you want to be invested in equities. You want to take opportunities of pullbacks. We haven't had many lately, but take those opportunities to leg into the market, and in terms of the cash on the sidelines, if you don't need it for short term, you need to put
that to work. I do think that will also drive the equity markets higher by having these these people coming off the sidelines and into the market, So we'll also get some appreciation there as well.
All Right, glad we could wrap up with you. Happy Thanksgiving. Kathy and Twhistle. She's managing director at Morgans Stale Private Wealth Management, joining us on this Wednesday from Palm Beach, Florida.
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