Consumers Using Power to Demand Change

Emily Hayward is with us. She's co founder, chief brand officer of Red Antler And if you look at the roster of the companies that they've worked with, you would get a sense of the tabs that go across my screen when I'm like doing some online shopping in between segments, Um, all Birds, Birch Box ever Lane will be, I mean, like so many, so many. She's also got a new book, Obsessed Building a brand people love from day one. She joins us on the phone from Southampton. So Emily, first

of all, congrats on the book. Very exciting. Thank you, Thank you so much, and thanks for having me on today. Absolutely all right, So why we want to talk so much about so many things? But why turn this into

a book right now? Yeah? So I think that you know, to your point about sort of the brands that we've helped build and the entrepreneurs that we've partnered with, we've really seen a movement unfold over the past decade where category after category is being disrupted by startups and people are really rethinking the brands that they're loyal to, the everyday items that they buy, and who they really want

to give their money to. And you know, over the years, I've seen what it takes to build a modern brand and how you can capture consumers hearts in whole new ways and really how you need to um. So the book is all about the new rules of branding and new ways to form connections with consumers or frankly get left behind. And you have to do it, Emily, from day one, right, you have to know your brand from the get go. Well, I think it certainly helps to

do it from day one. You know, I would never want to tell an established company that it's too late for them. I also think it's never that's not good for business either, Emily, is it? Well, that's true. But I'm also an internal optimist and I think everybody has the chance to be relevant again. Um But I do think it certainly helps that so many of these companies are really able to build their meaning and their purpose

into who they are from the very beginning. But you but you do talk about like you say that, you know, founders think that branding is something you think about once you figured out all the important stuff. I'm kind of reading from your book here, you know, but you say, you know, you've got to really be thinking about this

early on. Yeah. Absolutely. When we started Ranntler in two thousand and seven, the ethos of the day was like the lean startup, you know, it was like, get out there, make sure you have product markets fitch pu't your way to success, and then worry about your brand. But our hypothesis was actually that the sooner you start thinking about brand,

the more set up for success you'll be. And I think we see examples of businesses that really took an incredibly thoughtful approach to brand from the beginning, and we're able to just come out of the gates, you know, at full force and gained momentum and press and word of mouth, and ultimately we're able to sort of unseat the competition in a way that I don't think they ever would have been able to achieve if they had

taken a halfway up. All right, So in a minute, in one minute, give us one example, and then we're going to continue the conversation after we do some news, but give us a one minute a case study. Yeah. So, I think Casper, which you brought up, is an excellent example of that because before Casper launched, nobody thought you could sell a mattress through e commerce. You know, it

was impossible, right, people had to try it out. And if they had put up a sort of dinky website being like, hey, let's see if people are willing to make this eight hundred fifty dollar purchase online without ever sleeping on the bed, they would have gotten what I would call a false negative. You know, I don't think people would have fallen for that brand in the way

they did. Now. Of course they've based out challenges since then, certainly because there's been hundreds of copycats because of what the fantastic and phenomenal job they did. But I do think it was brand that enabled them to build that trust, change consumer behavior and gets people to make a very high ticket, high stakes purchase site unseen from a brand that they had never heard of. Our guest that we're talking with right now, Emily Heyward. She's co founder chief

brand officer at the Branding Company. Largely work with startups and new ventures read Antler, her new book out today, Obsessed Building a brand people love from day one. She's talking with us from South Hampton. You've worked with Alberts

Casper Birch Box. One of the things Jason and I have been wondering Emily is, you know, with everything that's gone on over the past twelve weeks, with everything that's gone over the past two and a half weeks following what happened in Minneapolis, you know, I do wonder what impact that has on companies, on leaders, and you know, what it means to be a brand in our society today and will it matter to consumers ultimately going forward. I actually think it's going to matter to consumers more

and more and more. And I think at this movement towards brands taking accountability happened before the moment that we currently find ourselves in. You know, consumers have more choice, more information, and more power than ever before, and that's only getting greater and greater, and they're using that power to demand change and accountability and action. And I think

it's phenomenal. And I said, brands to think they can just sort of like stay behind the curtain and not get engaged are going to find that their loyalty quickly. A wrote, so, Emily, help us understand through your work, you know, and some of the brands that you've worked with,

what does the right consumer engagement look like? And I know authenticity and transparency are all key aspects of this, but you know, there are also a lot of brands going after the consumer right now, and and the Internet is a great equalizer in many ways, and there are a lot of people who are clever, and even a lot of people who are well funded. But I wonder, as you've tried to distill down that secret sauce, what do you find. I think it's recognizing that brand is

not a layer that sits on top. It's not just having a cool logo or a great ad campaign or a socially conscious ad campaign. I think that brand needs to start from within. And the brands that are succeeding today have an incredibly clear idea of their purpose and of the problem involving for people. They have a baked in relevance that's about adding more value to people's lives, and then they can bring that to life through all

the ways they tell their story. But if you don't start with that meaning, it's just gonna be shallow and people are going to see through it. So one thing I wanted to ask you and Jason I talked about this a lot too. We both have teenagers, and you know both of our all of our teenagers. You know, look at a company what it stands for. We're looking at you know, where things are made, if it's a food product, you know, ingredients and all that kind of stuff.

But I wonder, you know, in terms of brands, how much the consumer is responsible from moving the needle and in an environment where the virus has exposed it emily as well as you know what happened in Minneapolis. You know there are people who are just struggling to put food on their table and a roof over their heads, you know, who do a lot of purchasing as well. Though, you know, is it are we overstating the importance of kind of what a brand stands for, how they do things?

So I guess to me, I don't think that there's any way to oversee the importance of doing the right thing. And I think that this moment is less about what you're posting on Instagram and more about sort of how you're looking at your own internal culture, and you're hiring practices and how you're promoting black voices within and without

of your company, you know. So to me, like, it doesn't necessarily need to be about brands investing, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars or is in ad campaigns about social justice. Frankly, I'd rather than put that money towards programs that help people then worry so much about their external reputation. And I think that if brands have that internal commitment and are doing the right thing, consumers are going to recognize that and support that more than that.

Are just the loudest about talking to talk, So tell us something about putting this book together. I mean, we do wanna, you know, give some nice love to it because it's out today, obsessed building a brand people love from day one. I mean I wonder about I mean, it's a little different from what you do in your day job. Like what was fun about it? What was

challenging about it? And maybe surprising? So the most challenging thing for me was that my day job is all about taking the most complicated thing you can imagine, you know, an entire business, and every feature and fund the piece of functionality and just throwing it into you know, four words, whereas when you're writing a book, it's almost the opposite skills that, you know, you really need to take an idea and expand on it, and bring an examples and

make sure that people are understanding it from all angles. So just dealing with the blank page was incredibly daunting after spending a career of trying to be as absolutely sustinct as possible. Um, But it was also, you know, so much fun to really think that on all the amazing examples I have from companies that I've gotten to partner with and entrepreneurs I admire as well as just

brands I admire as a consumer. You know, I bring up a lot of examples in the book that I didn't work on and got to sort of put on my consumer lens and think about what are the brands I love just being out there in the world and observing them and buying them. What brands do you love? Good question? Well, I'm very excited about a recent launch of hours. Um. That's a brand called Jos. It's a new at home coffee product, and it came just in time.

You know, everybody was already in lockdown. We actually pushed the launch off a few weeks because it was supposed to launch like the weeks the pandemic hits um. But it really has been an incredible addition to my routine and I'm proud of the brand that we put together there. And it's one of those things where the products great, the brand is great, the site is great. It all comes together, which again I think is table safe these days, Jason and I are both jo Jason and I are

both googling it is there a brand? What about? What? Like the older? Is an older brand out there that you just are like? Man, they have just consistently continued to evolve and get it right. Yeah, I'll give a hat tip to Levies for that. They're a brand that continues to stay relevant. I think they've stayed true to who they are while also adapting to the changing times. And they've really leaned into the fact that heritage can be a badge of authenticity, which you know is a buzzword,

but it's really important to people. Yeah. Interesting and ever Lane is that is that a company you've worked with? No, ever, Len is not a client um, but you know they're obviously one of I think the very in the director consumer movement, and it really sort of led the way and a lot of discussion around transparency, you making your labor practice is known, and sustainability and pricing. So I write about them in the book, and I admire a lot of things done. Yeah, we know that brand pretty

well here at home. Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, I'd wear a ton of everle. Yeah, and I and I love the I love the idea of it and the transparency piece. All right, we're kind of obsessed with you. Emily Hayward's back. Yeah, so you're gonna have to come back and spend some time with us. Author of the brand new book Obsessed Building a brand people love from day one. Emily Hayward is the author. She's co founder and chief brand officer over at red Antler. A nice way to end the show.

Um and and incredibly relevant, I think right now. Uh and you know, and we talked to a lot of these brands, you know, I think about the conversations we've had with the guys that written Adams, the creators of Adam's Great Husband and Wife Team. We're wearing their masks all the time now, it's a favorite mask were them. I know, we had to wait for them, and my

family loves them. They are incredible and we need to catch up in the bombas you know, we had the counter bombas on to you know, this is something we think about a lot. Yeah, no doubt about it. All right. Tomorrow, of course, we've got the Fed meeting. They began today, they'll wrap it up tomorrow, we'll get a decision. We will cover that decision Jason and myself, and then of course cover j Powell's statement and the press conference for

Jason Kelly. I'm Carol Masser. Have a safe evening every line of this as we were great yet