Chesnut on New Book

It is just it's so gorgeous there. What's life like in Northern California? Because we hear these California headlines about the virus, but I know enough to be dangerous that the Northern California scene in the Southern California scene, they're pretty different, right, They are different. I hear from friends down in Southern California that a lot of people are not wearing masks down in that area of the country. Whenever I get out, and I don't get out a whole lot, I see a lot of masks up here

in Northern California. I think people are people are being careful. The streets are pretty deserted compared to usual, and everywhere I go in the grocery stores lots of masks of trying to do the best we can. Well that's not very Uh, that's not integrity being displayed thereby by folks in southern California, those who are wearing masks. Let's I agree with you. I think it's a real show of courtesy, tort your fellow man. Yeah, don't to wear the masks and respect. So we need to get people on it.

I don't understand how wearing a mask has become so political when when you are talking about integrity and doing good and not doing evil, how do you keep it so that you focus on just doing the right thing as opposed to getting caught up in whether it's politically correct or not. Well, you need an open mind. I think everyone needs a like a north star in life, a purpose and sort of a commitment to live with

integrity as they can best perceive it. But people also, I think needs to have some self awareness and listen to people around them, uh, and be willing to adjust their views as they learn more information. Uh. Yeah, it seems like we do a lot of partisan thinking in this country where people kind of get stuck on one side and just feel like they're dogged and committing to stick by it no matter what. And that's not going

to get us a good place. So tell us about the the sort of the foundation of this book, because I'm fascinated by your background. You are a federal prosecutor. You went to work for eBay, I believe in ultimately at Airbnb? What led you? What? What was sort of the genesis at the spark? Well, I've been I've been

dealing with rules. I think my whole life as a photo prosecutor, I prosecuted espionage cases, uh, which I think it shows about as much lack of integrity as you can you can ever find in a work at games Right, you were involved in that lage. He was one of the cases that I prosecuted When I was in Northern Virginia and at an eBay, I started their trust and safety department. All the rules around what you can sell on eBay? Can you sell guns and alcohol and tobacco

products and drugs in the light. So I've been dealing with rules of my whole lifetime. But uh, you know, just the last three or four years, I've really gotten a sense that the world is changing. Uh, people are far faster now to call out bad conduct by leaders and my companies. I refer to it, you know, as an integrity revolution in the book. Uh. People are really desiring when they go to work to have a positive

impact in the world. And if they perceived the values of their company to not be aligned with their own values in the past, they were quiet. Now they're communicating with each other on blind and Slack, and they're blogging about it, they're tweeting about it. They're even organizing lookouts.

And I think it's not just employees, it's customers. We are in an age of conscious consumerism where you know, consumers, if they don't like the way that a particular company operates, they're gonna take their money and they're gonna move it

somewhere else faster than before. So the genesis for the book, I think is it was really recognizing the see change and this heightened expectation that the world's putting on leaders and on companies, and there's an effort to try to help companies adjust in this new world so that they can really take advantage of it and led it as opposed to fighting the Todd and ultimately really hurting their brands. You know, Rob, let's talk a little bit about the

tech world if we can. You've been a part of it, uh in many ways. And as Scarlett pointed out, and as we talked about earlier, you know, this is a day where we had some very well known tech executives on Capitol Hill. It does virtually that is uh some cases not being able to ironically figure out the technology to testify. But we'll set that aside for a second. Um, how big of the deal is it or how big

a deal should we make of it? That we have some big existential questions around the role of technology in our lives and the behavior of big tech. Well, I remember back when tech was the darling, don't you know, of course that companies they were going to save the world, right and and the boy things have changed, and I think a lot of that, I think has been their own doing in in a number of the large tech companies.

I think it's a singular focus on making money, which is of course critical, But you've got to be thinking about other stakeholders. You've got to be thinking about your employees, you've got to be thinking about the communities, where you do business, and I think and that's on that scorecard, and aby these big companies haven't done as well, and that has caused the world to take a hard look at them. The microscope is out and I I think we need to see them get ahead of the curve.

I think Microsoft, for example, is doing a pretty good job of this, actually recognizing that the world needs more from big tech. They need big tech to step up and solve the big problems instead of solely focusing on that quarterly that quarterly reports number. Think about you know, I have to look at Facebook, so they've got to deal with misinformation and hate on their platform. I think they've got to own up to it, and their failure to do it, and I think they've been kind of

stubborn about this is really hurting bright. How much of that do you think is tied to the fact that a lot of these big tech companies are still fairly young companies run by their founders. You bring up Microsoft, and that's, you know, at this point, an old company. Uh. The guy who runs at Saty Nodela is not Bill Gates. Um, he's a hired hand. Essentially, he's a professional manager, whereas Facebook is run by Mark Zuckerberg. Amazon is run by

Jeff Bezos. They are still in the mindset of building their company, building market share, UH, growing as fast as they can, as opposed to understanding that they are behemoths now. I think some of it may be the lack of experience, and someone like such an develop perhaps has been around a little longer sort of understands this idea of building a loved brand for an infinite timerise And but you

to look at Brian Chusky and Airbnb. I think the Airbnb has done pretty well overall in recognizing that there's something bigger than just getting big, that the way that you do it and the values that you demonstrate while you're going big, UH make a huge difference. A lot

of it is who you listen to. I think that some of the younger tech executives, it isn't the fact that they're young and inexperienced as much as are they really demonstrating an open mind, a curious learning mindset to listen to people who are outside of their type inner circle and learn from them. I do think Facebook could do a better job in this regard, and Jason, that's why diversity and inclusion is so important to make sure that you don't have the same kinds of people in

your company that you talk to all day long. Totally, I was that's exactly where I was going to go next, and Rob, I do wonder along those exact lines. It feels like these dual crises, the pandemic and the virtual world we're living in, you know, zoom to zoom or however you're communicating with people, as well as a long overdue reckoning. When it comes to racial inequality, it feels like it's laid bare a lot at all sorts of companies, big and small. How do we take advantage of that

and and maybe reset ourselves? Well, I think we need to start with an understanding that we all come to the world with our own specific set of goggles and lens as we see the world through our own lives and our own experiences. But what we sometimes fail to understand is that there are a whole broad set of experiences out there that diversity can really help us learn from. I'll take Airbnb. You know, when the Airbnb face of

discrimination crisis several years ago on its platform. I think part of those calls by the fact that there wasn't enough diversity in the leadership of the company back then. There are people who would actually experienced discrimination who could have helped, I think, be a little more proactive and getting and getting on top of these sorts of issues. Diversity brings the power of human experience beyond what any

one individual can do. I love walking into a room and seeing people that look different than I do, because it means that we're going to get some different perspectives that I couldn't begin to understand. But those are critical, I think in dealing with dealing with crisis and dealing with the racial injustice, you've got to have that understanding

inside your company at the leadership level. Rob you talked about stakeholders earlier on, and that brought me to the business roundtables, UH definition of a corporation or purpose of a corporation. Last summer they came out they revised their mission statement, essentially saying that it's not just for the shareholders. Right there, they're not just committing to shareholders, are committing to their employees, to customers, two suppliers, to the communities

as well. How did you interpret that because it was sufficiently vague that anyone can walk away with the interpretation that they want. Well, I think it was a powerful move. Uh. Well, we're talking about abandoning now decades of thinking about the purpose of a company and why it exists. Uh. And I think the fact that the Business round Table did this was a big step. But you're right, there's still

a lot. There's still a lot to interpret. I think it's a recognition though, that the world is tired, but companies just running in their narrow lane and only thinking about how fast they can get big and how much money they can make. The world needs companies to step up and think about their communities where they operate, think about their customers, and think about their employees. And the world's actually pushing companies really hard in this in this respect.

So in some ways, I think that what the Business round Table did is a reflection of where we are now as a society and what company what we expect from companies. I think companies that uh or it as fluff and continue their old way of doing things are going to struggle. Companies I think that take it seriously, really identify their stakeholders and think about how they can make their ship their stakeholders successful. I think they are going to be the ones that leap ahead in the

next five years. Alright, Rob Chestnut, thank you so much. Really good to spend some time with you. He's the author of the new book it's called Intentional Integrity, How Smart Companies can lead an Ethical Revolution, based on his experiences and observations working as the top lawyer at Airbnb as well as at eBay, background as a federal prosecutor as well. Check that out. A good and timely quarantine read