Chatelain on New Book

next guest, Marcia Chatlin. She is a professor of history and African American Studies at Jason's alma mater, Georgetown University. There you go, who has written this wonderful book It came out earlier this year called Franchise the Golden Arches in Black America to really tie together how fast food and civil rights and Black America came together in this powerful way. Professor Chatlin, thank you so much for joining

us today. Just give us an overview here about how and why McDonald's became so important to Black America and in Black America. Well, the story of McDonald's and Black America starts in Night After the assassination of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. And essentially, at this moment, like our moment today, people were really reflective about the various pressures that were happening in predominantly African American communities that had

been cut off from resources. And in addition to many of the concerns of communities, people said that they would like to see more black owned businesses. And this was a moment in which a lot of corporations were shifting in that direction. And so McDonald was a leader in the sense in recruiting African American franchise owners to go into African American communities and to build McDonald's the brand as well as use their restaurants as a way to

reinvest in communities. And so how did it come about?

I mean, because there must have been some sort of candidly, you know, just knowing a little bit about the history, some tricky mechanics and politics around that at the time, especially in the sixties, Dr Chatlin, help us understand those right is a really pivotal moment because the mainstream civil rights movement um is trying to decide what direction it should take, and having having seen so many legislative victories in the nineteen sixties, but not actually seeing this translate

into economic opportunity, better schools, better access to housing. A number of leaders and civil rights movement really wanted to work with business and corporations to bring in these opportunities. In addition to that, many white franchise owners no longer wanted to do business in group in communities that were becoming increasingly black, or were segregated and all black. And so you see this convergence of an economic white flight as well as the support of the civil rights movement.

And then you have President Richard Nixon who is investing in this idea of black capitalism where he's putting money in business. But one of the things that I think is important to note is that none of these approaches necessarily get at the root causes of structural inequality. But you start to see business becoming part of the conversation. Business becomes part of the conversation, and it becomes part of the community. You write about how these black owned

franchises of McDonald's shape the community around them. They it goes beyond providing jobs. They play a leading cultural role. Talk a little bit about that, right, So, African American franchise owners take on the role that black business owners have historically taken on, and that means that they're providing other resources and communities because of the color line in

government services and opportunities. So they're underwriting youth programs at schools, They're making sure that first jobs are actually being created in the communities. They are sponsoring things like the early Martin Luther King Jr. Holiday. So you start to see their influence not just in the business sector, but for history, really black colleges and universities for the creation of the

All American basketball team. And so these black franchise owners become incredibly visible and incredibly popular in these communities because, as I say in my book, these communities are cut off from federal resources and other types of opportunities in order to have their needs met. So Dr Chaplin, how far does it extend beyond McDonald's, because we do know that today in the gap in wealth between Black Americans and white Americans is massive. Why didn't this catch on

more beyond McDonald's. Well, I think that the reality is is that you can't solve robust and complex and deep social problems simply by um having business lead the way that we have a public sphere, we have public policy, we have public resources like taxes in order to do that. But what it does reveal is that this moment that McDonald's is in right now saying that they stand for black lives donating to the c P, it's not new.

We have a fifty year plus history of McDonald's inserting itself into the civil rights struggles so that they can appear that they're on the right side of history. But in this early period when McDonald's was extending the opportunity for franchising, people did not have the full understanding of the consequences of fast food on the American diet, as

well as the concerns about wages in the industry. Today, supporting Black Lives visa v. McDonald's has more to do with the quality of work and benefits and providing for its people than some of these other solutions from the past. Very well said, and I'm struck also by the parallels to today, this idea that um companies, the private sector kind of pick up the slack when the government, the government up is unwilling or can't provide a lot of

the funding. How did you come to writing this book, well, I was concerned about that very issue. I think that this book is a story about how these relationships are complicated. On one hand, we can't say that we're concerned about the gap in nutrition and help outcomes and access in African American communities without understanding the history of how fast food became such a presence in certain parts of our country.

And we can't say that it's simply a matter of giving people food choices and then they'll follow without understanding the other kinds of relationships that businesses have with communities. And we also have to remember that if we want to solve problems, we have to invest in the public good, the public sphere, and we can't allow corporations to lead the way. So, Professor Challen, you've made a number of

references inviously. The book is set in many ways or takes its uh takes its beginning from things that were happening in the sixties, and he mentioned night there have been so many parallels drawn, and we are just by coincidence speaking to you on the day where the first black president just eulogized someone who was deeply involved in civil rights from the sixties on. You know talking about the late John Lewis tell us the historical lens that you used to look at in comparing and not just

limiting to to business n and there's so many parallels here. Well. One of the things that I was struck. I had the opportunity to serve on a panel with Congressman Lewis, and he described the moment after the teen election as some of the most challenging and trying of his life, which is an incredibly um poignant thing to hear from someone who lived through so many times of turmoil. But I think that at both moments sixty eight and today, we have a growing consciousness among a larger group of

people about the problems of racial injustice. We are also in the middle of a serious crisis with COVID, but in eight we also saw the escalation of war in Vietnam, and I think that the central question for all of us is how do we step up and make sure that communities get the resources they need. And like I think today, there has been allowed of gestures on the part of the private sector, but we're not seeing enough in terms of again a government led public approach to

solving the problems of racial inequality. If sixty eight taught us anything is that the businesses did not solve the problems of racial injustice. It's on all of us in communities in order to strategize to solve those problems. Yeah, business can only go so far and should only go so far because it's not their responsibility stimately, So as we look ahead, um, at some point, the Trump administration will end, whether it's after this November or four novembers

from now. What are you hearing from those who are trying to run for office, whether it's the Biden campaign or other political leaders that encourage you inter in so far as thinking about how government is more committed to

ensuring more racial quality. Well, one of the things that I think has been wonderful with the kind of what they say the left wing party of the Democrats, the Progressive Democrats, is that they're asking really good questions about what does it mean for us to solve these problems. They're not saying, um, simply all money should just be poured into problems. It's being thoughtful again about wages, about access to housing, about how we're going to make sure

that we have the best health care system possible. So we don't see another tragedy like the ones that we're living through. And so what I think is happening is that people are becoming more critical of UM, how business is conducted, there being more thoughtful about inviting problem solvers who will really care about the quality of human life

and the dignity and the way people live. And I think also in this you know, incredible moment, we see the reinvigoration of the Poor People's Campaign UM with Reverend William Barber who's saying that we actually have to have the political will to solve the problems of poverty. And so I think what we're having right now is this incredible reckoning and it's up to all of us to see it as a real moment to move closer and closer to the kind of justice that John Lewis deserved

to see in his lifetime. Dr Chadlin, one last question for you before we let you get back to it. I do wonder, you know, as someone who is teaching these issues and we are all living through, you know, this moment in history, how does it change your curriculum? What what are you gonna say to your students come fall? And obviously I know enough to be angers about how

Georgetown is going to be organized. I know it's going to be a hybrid uh situation, but but what do you think about differently as you approach this next semester while we just announced for going all online, and I think right now for students, we need to see this moment as not just a source of angst, but this incredible opportunity because COVID and racial justice protests, all of these things are giving us an opportunity to take a

closer look at where our society has failed. And we have these incredible opportunities to really deliberate on how to solve the problem. And so I think for my students, what I want them to understand is that another world is possible that in people couldn't see around the corner,

and so they do the best they could. But with the knowledge of more history and with the knowledge um that comes with more time, how are we going to approach problems differently and how our generations in the future, how are they going to see us and are they going to be empathetic or are they going to be critical of the things that we did and the things that we failed to do well? Said Marcia Chaplin. She is a professor of history and African American Studies at

one of the best universities in the world. I'm just Georgetown University. Also author of the terrific book franchise, The Golden Arches in Black America, incredibly timely out now pick it up. It's a great read. Gives you so much perspective on the economics of the racial question here and the history, the complicated history, and the troubling history of Black America.