Canceled College Sports Could Cost ESPN Millions

Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. Let's head over to a conversation with our friends at John's Hopkins. We're talking about ANIT assist road deputy director at John's Hopkins Center

for Health, Security and effectult. Remember at the Bloomberg School of Public Health is you can probably tell by the name Bloomberg School of Public Health that is supported by Mike Bloomberg, the founder of Bloomberg Philanthropies and Bloomogulp, the parent of this radio station. Anita, really nice to have you back with us. So much going on, and I want to go straight to the issue that I know is completely front of mine as parents for both Scarlett

and me, which is reopening schools. Where are we what do we do? Thanks Jason, and I'm with you. I also have two high school aged children who would love to be back in school, and I would love to have them back in school. UM. I think that the most important thing we can do to get our kids back in the classroom are really three things. One, we need to get community transmission under control UM. It's hard to send kids back to school when there are still

raging outbreaks in our local communities UM. And then to one school's open, open them very gradually with tight mitigation measures that we know work like physical distance and mask us UM. And to get that physical space, we may need to prioritize some kids over others, so it would make sense to younger kids back UM before older ones. And then also maybe those most vulnerable or who need

UM special attention in class. And then three, invest in research that we need to understand more about kids role in transmission of coronavirus, so we know in the future how how careful or how type those mitigation measures need to be to keep everyone's safe. Yeah, well that investment can't be at the expense of schools because they already

have enough expenses to deal with enough headaches. Jason and I are both in the suburbs of New York and a lot of the public schools need to submit their proposals to the state Department of Education at the end of this month. So I've been hearing a lot of different proposals from schools on how they're going to make this work. One thing that strikes me though, and I'm always puzzled by this, it seems like we're reinventing the wheel.

Other countries have done this. Canada reopened its schools in May. Taiwan never closed schools. Granted, taiwan situation never got to the point like China, uh, the United States, but other countries have done it. There are best practices that we can employ. Why are we kind of fumbling in the dark here when there are examples to draw from? There are a lot of good examples. But for the the countries that open school successfully, they had much lower prevalence

of disease rates than we now do. Our outbreak is um there. You know, cases are increasing in most of the states, hospitalization rates for COVID are now matching or exceeding numbers seen in New York in March and April from In many states, UM hospitalizations are getting under pressure. So it's UM it's very difficult to think about opening schools and areas where the epidemic is spiraling out of control.

For those that are able to reduce the prevalence of disease and communities, I think we can use a lot of the measures that have worked successfully in other countries and they will work for us to h So that's what we should be focusing on. And tell us about some of those I mean, what are some of those measures? I mean, you've talked a little bit about the social

distancing and other things. Are there things that maybe aren't as UM well known that you've seen because you've looked into this much more in depth than most of us have. I think many of them people have heard of now. Certainly, physic six feet of physical distance is important, also requiring masks indoors. It can significantly decrease the chances of infection UM decreasing the number of students per class and as c d c UM put out its recent guidance. They

emphasize the issue of cohorting. You know, get kids in smaller groups and keep that same cohort together throughout the day. Now that's a lot easier to do in elementary school than it is in middle and especially high school, when kids have different kinds of classes and you can move around. Um.

But also ventilation is an important factor. I know schools are looking at ways to upgrade their ventilation systems, which really gets back to Scarlett's point about how costly it is for schools to be able to put all these measures in place. And then other um in schools and other countries have put up you know, plastic barriers either between students or we're in front of the teacher to

give them additional safety. There's a lot of discussion about you know, Denmark and other places that helped classes outdoors as much as possible. That is a great idea, and we should be creative and thinking about other spaces to bring children. But it's not going to be possible for for all schools and all places in all states. Um As we you know start in the hot summer and

and and continue through the cold winter. One thing that parents around the world are obsessing over and kids around the world are probably trying to ignore because it means the end of summer is reopening school, how you go

about doing it, and the complications involved in it. And one thing that's come up again and again, Anita, especially when I look through some of these proposals that school districts are putting out, is schools are going forward with planning and then kind of assuming that teachers will go along with it, or then they'll bring it to the teachers. Obviously, the faculty has a lot to be concerned about. How scared should they be about potentially catching COVID through kids,

through asymptomatic kids. What does the science tell us, Well, this is an area where we still have some blind spots in the science and much more UM research needs to be done to answer that question. UM. The the results of different studies around the world are are mixed UM and so in some studies have concluded that children play a less of a role in transmission as a virus than adults do UM. Other studies have shown that

kids are as likely to transmit UM the virus as adults. UM. There are lots of different kinds of studies with lots of different protocols that have been used, so everyone is not sort of starting at the same point. So it's

it's difficult to know. That's why we really need to be ready when schools do reopen, to be able to get on top of any clusters of cases, UM, and to track those and to figure out the chains of transmission so that we know whether children are the index case, you know, the first case to spread it to others

or not. And um, and no one is really I mean teachers, UM are not going to feel comfortable, I think, being back in school unless they feel that transmission in the community is under control and the schools have a good plan for trying to reduce the risk. Anita, it's impossible to tell the future, but I'm gonna ask you too anyway, UM, what's the most likely scenario you think

for a school district that that opens. Is it going to be sort of start stop, hype red schools closing, schools upening, Like, what do you think is most likely to happen in a market like New York or or Washington where you are well in New York? And it's hard to say. And I think that some public schools may make different choices than private schools do. Again, it's going to it should depend very much on the numbers

at that time. I think that um DC and New York are both UM lucky if you can call it that, or through a lot of hard work, they have built up a contact tracing workforce UM that is really helpful so that they can be deployed when there are outbreak

breaks to be able to track the transmission UM. I think probably you know, the two most likely scenarios are a hybrid approach or starting the school year with online learning UM and then trying to transition into a hybrid approach before the end of before the end of the calendar year. Yeah, that means a lot of uncertain parenting too, because they can't go back to work very quickly. Here Anita,

do you think we need another mass lockdown? Jason, I discussed how if we had done it the right the first time and we were patient enough the first time, we'd be in a very different place. Now, of course, we now have outbreaks locally all over the place. Can we muddle through the next school year with localized shutdown or do we need something bigger? Well, there's been a lot of discussion about what we don't want, which is going back to a full on shutdown that we lived

through in the spring. UM. But I think, you know, we have to think more about what what do we want? UM? What do what do we want our October November December to look like? UM? And I think that people there would all come together and though that we want to have more freedom. We want our children to be back in school, we want parents to be able to go

back to work. And so I think that what we need to do to get there UM, in light of the number of high number of cases in the hospitalizations to cross the country is to really encourage physical distancing and Matthew's limit large indoor gatherings UM. And then in some areas with exponential growth of cases, we need to close high risk activities where you know, in places where the outbreak is worsening, so things like bars and indoor

entertainment venues and large indoor restaurants. And we don't need to go full on all shelter in place, UM, but we we can close some of the high risk places UM. That would really help to reduce the cases. All right, So good to get some time with you and need assist for a deputy director for Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. She joined us from Washington, d C. Well, this is a story that everyone's excited about. I have to say, I just couldn't wait to get into this

with this gang. Chris Paul Mary wrote the story, It's canceled college sports games could cause ESPN millions. He's our l A bureau chief, my fellow chief out on the West Coast. He joins us from the City of Angels. Joel Webber, the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us from Massachusetts. And Joel, I mean, I just wanted to sink my teeth into this. I've been obsessively thinking about this, just in the sense of the economic implications of no sports. And as you have said many times,

every story is a business story. Yeah, and it's especially true for sports right now. And you know, look like we we all are suddenly living in this world where we're craving, or at least I'm craving sports content. Um, and baseball got going. Um might see a false start there, We're about to see NBA start today. Uh. But what Chris Palm Mary did such a great job with this story. It really just looks at the worldwide leader that being

ESPN in the sports world. And what it really reveals is how important college football is for ESPN's bottom line. And college football seems to be really in flux right now and and that might have big implications only for ESPN, but obviously its parent company Disney. Um Chris, what were

you able to find out? He's obviously esp and huge in sports, but I just didn't realize how big in particular college They took a big bed about ten years ago to try to get as many of these conferences exclusively. So they launched these networks, ACC Network, at the SEC Network, Longhorn Network. Last year, more than half of all college football viewing was done on one of these ESPN outlets,

and streaming service ESPN Plus has it. Obviously they run games on ABC as well, College Game Day hugely important full hot of American Saturday mornings. Uh. So you know, this is a big business for them, billion dollar business and uh and it's totally up in the air. I just can't believe that there are ten different channels for college games at ESPN. That that just it's stunning. I mean, I've actually watched cable television yesterday. That's several page downs

on under remote control. UM. I also watched hockey last night on cable, which was really surreal. UM. You know, they're they're piped in fan noises and everything. One thing that struck me though is hockey basketball. They're they're doing the whole bubble thing, right, UM, college sports, can you can you do a bubble? And if you can't, UM, even no, let's just go with the idea that you could. There isn't one commissioner, is there. There isn't one league

that can set the rules. It's kind of like all these different leagues, different conferences setting their own rules. The big difference between that and professional sports. UM. And one of the things to your point that we're starting to see and we'll see if this continues to be the trend, but the professional sports that have played in that bubble in Orlando, the NBA and Major League Soccer seemed to be having less trouble than Major League Baseball, which is

out on the road. And UM College has been trying to adapt sort of a hybrid model. They've a few of the conferences have reduced their way teams essentially, they're only gonna play teams in their conference. Maybe one other game, but that still involves travel, and so uh it's it's we're mains be seen. I think it's could be a lot more pressure for the colleges if uh so these players start to test positive parents who involved, it's going to be, you know, a tug of war. Uh So.

Disclosure that I'm a former ESPN employee here, but one thing that um, you know, ESPN has really been able to to use to its advantage is this lucrative uh to stream business model where it makes money not only from advertisers and it's especially lucrative demographic, but then they

also make money via the cable providers. And Chris, I think one of the things that you hit on on in your reporting here is both the advertising as well as the cable revenue is is that is ultimately at risk here and and so beIN a picture like exactly how much money we're talking about here, um, and how ESPN is attempting to navigate the moment. Well, the advertising is the biggest immediate head because you cancel the game and then you had some mad spaces that were sold.

That's about the roughly three billion in revenues for the ESPN Empire. But you said, the bigger number is this ten billion year in fees that come in from everybody paying their their cable bill every month. You know, that's a longer term. It's it's sticky. But there were some news today. Comcast just said they are going to refund

people's monthly bills for their regional sports networks. Uh. You know these are Chicago, Philly, um, you know local channels, the broadcast and particularly the baseball games because their season has been cut so dramatically, and so this is this has been been following the story for months. What's how is this sort of model, the ecosystems, as people call it, going into the hold or is it going to break?

You know, people playing their cable you know, the cable companies pay their networks, and the networks play pay the league. Nobody wants to upset that wonderful little system that they've got, but after months without sports, it's starting to crack. Well, and Chris, you went exactly where I was going to go next. And it's a very personal thing. I'm a huge college football fan. I grew up in the South. I love SEC football. I tuned into the SEC network

all fall. But I have to say college football is one of the only reasons we still have cable at this point. And it sounds like, based on your reporting the kicker to the to your story, I'm not alone in hanging onto that and not hanging onto it if there's no college football. Well, you know, everyone's been thinking about their spending on cable because of Netflix and all the other wonderful screaming sources. Ub Security did a survey. They said there's customers who cancel the cable if there

was no college football. So you know, that's a pretty big hit in the broad with that. For the for the networks is you know, you cancel and then that's you're done, right. It's not like an advocates canceled, Right, You've lost the subscriber for for years and uh so that's you know, what we've seen in covid is there have been ongoing trends pressure on a gable bundle and and this has really accelerated these trends, so huge surgeon people watching streaming and hire much stronger cuts in in

the PayTV customers. Alright, we're gonna leave it there. It's a terrific story. I know scartand I both just devoured it when we saw it come across this morning. Chris Palm Mary wrote it the story canceled college sports games could cost ESPN millions. It's online on the Bloomberg right now. It'll be in the new issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine coming out later this week. Our thanks to Chris as well as to Joe Webber, the editor of the magazine.

This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg. Brady, all right, let's talk a little business week economics and continue our series that we inadvertently are doing. Today's Scarlett talking with people who ask questions of J. Paul yesterday from Bloomberg. A lot of them, There are a lot of them. We are happy to be joined by Katarina Surviva, Federal Reserve and economics reporter for Bloomberg. Joinus on the phone from Houston, and Katerina,

great to talk to you. I know it's a busy week. Uh talk to us about what we heard, didn't hear and the reaction by investors to J. Pall yesterday. Hi, thanks so much for having me on. Um. Yeah, so it was you know, it was a press conference and a Fed meeting that UM in some respects was what people were expecting. You know, there was not much news in terms of new policy action that came from it. They of course left weights unchanged and pledged their support

for the economy as we continue through the crisis. UM. But I do think you heard, especially in the press conference, UM, some more kind of UM somber notes on the economy. UM. Of course, we saw today's second quarter GDP print UM kind of show the length of what we're looking at, UM in terms of the crisis. So you heard that from Jaire Powell that yesterday. And you also heard him UM talk about fiscal action UM, which which is you know,

timely as Congress debates the next round of stimulus. UM. So you heard him kind of point point to that as UM as possibly you know, calling out his colleagues there to to perhaps do more right. And we expected him to do that. That's been something he's been pounding the table on, or in his case, gently tapping the table on for a couple of meetings. Now j Pal doesn't pound the table. He's much more nuanced than that.

One thing that I noticed was there's a note from that West indicating that they believe said will delay a pivot to ford In for guidance till November. So the thinking was that this would be a wait and see kind of meeting and there be some action to be announced in September. But if not West is correct, they might push that off until November. Why is there Why do you think there is this pressure to come up

with something by September? Yeah, I mean I think some of it might just be that it's kind of the what next attitude? Um. I think it's some of that. Um. You know, we of course had a lot of activity from the Fed in the spring. Um, there's been a bit of a lull as to kind of wait and see what happens with the economy. So I wonder if if investors are kind of eager to see, um, what

more the central Bank can do. And also, I mean that would come at a time when you know, we're seeing this resurgence in the virus this summer, so perhaps by September we may very well need something else. UM. I think that's why we're seeing some pressure from some investors. UM. I think the call to to maybe see that delayed until November, you know, also makes sense. I think it's just it's tough. I think it's really kind of week by week at this point in terms of what's going

on with the economy. And so tell us how the economy looks, Katerina from your perspective being there in Houston. I know I asked this question every time we talked to you, but I am fascinated by this idea that you have this view from all your colleagues and from

all your great work covering the FED. But you're also in Houston, so you're talking to people locally and regionally, and we know from talking to folks across the country, this is a very different economy and a very different feel around the virus and the recovery, if there is such a thing right now, depending on where you're sitting, Yeah, absolutely, I mean the resurgence that we've seen here, it's just it's incredible because of course, you know, like everyone else

or most of everyone else, Texas locked down in April, and at that point, you know, we really didn't have, um the caseload that you know, you guys had in the New York area. UM. So it's it's been interesting because we were locked down, we opened up, you know, fairly early in May, and then of course mid till late June we had this resurgence. So you know, we feel like we've been locked down here for many months and there's just been no let up. I think that's

that's that businesses here having a really hard time with that. Um. I think you kind of, you know something, some bigger businesses that probably cater um to a more national clientele, um, like manufacturing firms here in Texas have seen a bit of business and demand come back where we're seeing that. But I think beyond the ground mom and pop places you know, are not I mean our our local restaurants

here that we love to go to. A lot of them, you know, opened for a few weeks, but how again kind of gone to take out only or just completely shut their doors for the time being. UM. So yeah, it is really starved to see here. Yeah, I can imagine. And Katerina, you were at the FED press conference yesterday virtually of course asking a question, and I know you posed a question on the Federal Reserve targeting the black unemployment rate and it is higher than for other ethnicities

such as whites or Asians. Um, what kind of answer did Powell give? Did it seem like it was something the FED has discussed at length. Yeah, I think the FED is discussing this UM a good amount. I think that you've seen a lot of that, especially since Janet Yellin's tenure. UM. It is something they talk about and are I think aware of. UM. We see evidence of that in the minutes the meeting minutes as well when we get those UM. He did say that, UM, you

know they're in his mind. I think there's not a ton they and do he kind of punted the ball, if you will, to the fiscal realm and and you know, talked about perhaps more fundamental changes and how fund education in this country and um, you know some of those other areas of the economy that that probably Congress is better suited for. But I do think there is UM, there are things that the FED could do in this realm.

You know, we've had economist call for the FED to specifically target um, you know, an indicator like black unemployment, UM, you know, saying for example that we won't raise rates until we see black unemployment across this threshold. So you know, there there are things they could do. Certainly there are no uh Panaceo when occurred to the entire economy, but you know they do have tools at their disposal in

my opinion. Well, and we know you've done some great reporting around that you've talked to to us about it on this program. So check out Katerina's Arriva's work at Katerina's Arriva on Twitter as well, because he's leading the way along with the Bloomberg team on a lot of these core economic issues. At a reserve in the economics reporter joining us on the phone from Houston. All right, let's talk politics right now, because in the markets today,

there are a couple of things that really got investors attention. First, of course, was that terrible print on GDP would showed the economy contracted annualized rate, so if you were to stretch out what happened in the second quarter to the full year, it would be a thirty three percent contraction. And then, of course, the president tweeting that the election should be delayed or could be delayed, or he wants it to be delayed. It's not really clear. He just

kind of used a lot of exclamation points. But I want to bring in Wendy Benminson, who is our politics editor here at Bloomberg news and she covers all things, and of course, Wendy, the tweet that President Trump sent out was very much tied to the GDP report. His election prospects hinge on the economy, right, it does hinge on the economy, and lately the pole have shown that while the economy used to be the one policy area where people trusted him more than Democratic nominee Joe Biden,

that's no longer the case. They are at least even a Biden as ahead. So as soon as those very gloomy GDP numbers came out, he suggested we delay the election. To be sure. He cannot delay the election. It takes an act of Congress, and everyone from Miss McConnell to Nancy Pelosi has said it's not gonna happen. Were you surprised, Wendy, having and knowing having the experience you have, knowing Washington the way you do, the the ins and outs and

the politics of it all. Were you surprised how quickly, uh, the especially the Republicans came out against this, given how much they have fallen into line with this president in recent history. Well, yes, is the short answer. I was a little surprised at how swiftly. Um, they all came

out against it. Uh. That crack in his support has been widening for a little while now, sort of ever since the Republican led States and the Sun Belt in the South began to be hit with the virus very hard, people have and Trump's pool numbers have continued to decline. Republicans are starting to feel a little safer about contradicting the President. They contradicted him on the payroll text, which he wanted to eliminate in the latest stimulus, and now

they're finding other reasons. And it is just one of the pillars of our democracy that the election is on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. All has been since eighteen forty five, and there is no reason to change it in the minds of Congress. What what gets my interest is how he tweeted it, or what he said in the tweet. He said, with universal mail and voting and in parentheses, not absentee voting, which is good, will be the most inaccurate and fraudulent election

in history. And then he goes on to suggest to delay the election action. What is the difference between universal mail in voting and absentee voting virtually nothing. Some states call it mail in balloting. Some states call it absentee voting. UM. In some states they have both, and there are slight technical differences. But he the difference is that he's talking about not lining up at the ball in place. President Trump is setting up reasons for a possible legal challenge

after the election. I'm not saying that, you know, the army is going to have to come in there and drag him out of the Oval office. I'm not suggesting that, but I am suggesting that he keeps saying that mail in an absentee balloting, which is going to become much more popular because of the virus this year. UM, he says it's fraudulent. And so when a majority of Americans vote mail in our absentee and he and if he loses, he will be able to say, ah ha, that's fraudulent.

I'm sewing, which is also one of the things he has often done in his life as a businessman and a politics So I think he's setting up the grounds for a legal challenge after the election. Wendy, I do want to ask you before we let you go. Only about a minute and a half left here or so some striking optics today at the funeral of John Lewis, where you know, of course, the well known representative from Atlanta full disclosure, he was my congressman when I lived

in Atlanta for a time. Um former Presidents Clinton, Obama, and Bush forty three all eulogizing him. There's there's something to be noted there, especially given the lack of response other than I believe one tweet that the President made with the passing of John Lewis. Yes, well, like him or not. Trump is the kind of person who has a personality where it's all about him, and I'm not

in his head. I certainly don't know whiver him. I know that he has been upset of John Lewis for being one of the ringleaders of the impeachment effort, and I'm sure that that in his mind made it so that he didn't have to say what normal people say after someone of note dies. So, yes, you had President George W. Bush there, you had former President Jimmy Carter, You of course had Barack Obama there, But you didn't have Donald Trump at the funeral at He didn't go

to the capital to see John Lewis. Lions state and when Herman Kane died a Republican today of the virus, and he got it out of Trump rally. Um. There was a very hard felt tweet, but not a word about John Lewis notable Wendy Benjaminson, thank you so much. Nice to catch up with politics editor for Bloomberg Jinus on the phone. Her team doing a really a fantastic job covering this very complicated, already presidential race and obviously a lot of rhetoric being tweeted around today a journal now,

but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no, no no, all right, please, I'll do the right revel. I want to try it. Just drive, baby, good questions trying. This is the drive to the globe. Thanks, we'll try us. Bloomberg Radio, all right, it is the drive to the clothes. It's a big one today given what we're anticipating. On the other side. The perfect person to talk to us

about it's Scarlett. It's Cathy Boyle, President founder of Chapin Hill Advisors, joining us on the phone from Lovely Pound Ridge, New York, just up the road from me here in Westchester and normally where you are, just up the road from your place, Scarlett, Cathy really nice to have you back with us. Great to be here, Jason, how are you. I'm doing well? Uh, tech, let's talk. I mean, this

is a massive day. So just to set the table a little bit, we were just with our own Dave Wilson doing his chart of the day, and following up, he said, of the total weight in the SMP five, the big four tech companies, you throw on Microsoft, it's this is this is the market right now. It is Indeed, it's a very very narrow market. And um if these tech stocks were to correct ten percent, the bottom one d have to move up just to the s Holy

mackerel say that again. If tech stocks go's five FAM right, f A, M F A MG, if they were to fall ten percent, the bottom one stocks in the SMP would have to move up collectively in order to keep them index even. Wow, that's just stunning. Jason and I were saying that we've never had a day, or we can't remember a day in which these four companies announced earnings all at the same time, or roughly all at the same time. UM, Apple will be reporting it. Fourth,

what do you think is Priceton right now? I mean, everyone knows that there's going to be a slowdown in advertising. Everyone knows that Apple can't tell us very much about the iPhone twelve. But what's priced in What could cause a bit of a sell off maybe not ten percent, but a bit of a sell off in some of these names. Well, almost anything, right, It's like the elephant's head move for the door scarlet, you know, it's that's

what we tell people. It's like, you know, if they all go for that door at the same time and you're an ant on that glass, forget it, You're getting smashed. So this is what people don't understand. These tech stocks are also in every single large cap mutual fund. They're also in every single hedge fund, any of the big hedge funds. The concentration and people's portfolios to these are incredible. So,

you know, it could be almost anything. It could be um an overall, It could be something on the fit right right now, the Fit is driving this. Everybody is fear of missing out. Let's get in, let's stay in, and everybody thinks they're so freaking smart that they're going to get out before the collapse starts to happen. And so it could be earnings, could be uh Global, could be you know, more China, you know Trump, It could

be almost anything that could be the catalyst. Um. We have no volatility, the fetish shortfall, you know, and that's how hedge funds usually make money. UM. So you know, it really is crazy the four in the SMP, other than these five or down five. Yeah, yeah, And I'm glad you pointed that out, because you know, we take a look almost every day. It's sort of what's been going on year to date. And if you look at the NASDAC, it's up at this very moment. And obviously

we're ahead of the clothes here. The SMP barely up about five tenths of one percent, Dow Jones industry average down about seven point eight percent, give or take. This has been the story of this market. And meanwhile, just to shift gears a little bit, we have an economy,

especially a small business economy, that is suffering mightily. Cathy, and you shared some statistics with us about New York City restaurants, and that really I think hits home for looks like Scarlett and me and you who make our living. Maybe we live out here, but we make our living in there in Manhattan, where Scarlett is right now, it's a bleak picture, it really is. I mean, and you think about the domino effect. Right commercial real estate is

going down the tubes. One of the sayings is stay alive until you know, and I don't even know that's gonna be long enough. They're talking about converting commercial real estate to condos and some kind of housing. You know. I've talked people at large companies and they're like, I'm not going back. So you know, I think that brings

us to know the domino effect across the board. Taxis are down dramatically, um uber and lift or are up a little bit from where they were, but nothing close to what if you don't have people walk in the streets, you don't have people who eating the food carts. I have one pending client with food carts and all those guys came back out and then the protests happened and they all got they got ripped off, and they went back in. So he's he's thinking of closing his commissary

is enough food carts. He goes through twenty pips of sometimes the chicken a week. So you think about the decimate decimatization of these businesses. You know, janitorial supplies Why do you need to clean the facility if there aren't a bunch of employees food service. You know, it just goes on and on and on, and all those people are consumers, and consumer still drives this country's GDP. Ultimately absolutely.

One thing you also point out, and it's something we should watch for, especially when we're looking at Amazon's earnings, is how much it costs for these companies to operate in this COVID nineteen environment. Last quarter we heard from Amazon that it would have posted an operating profit except for the fact that it had to spend a lot of money making sure it's warehouses were clean, making sure

it's employees were safe. Um. All this expense for PPE, for cleaning, for UM, retro fitting your office is piling up. It really is that I don't think people are focused on that, Scarlett. I have done a pivot. You know, my speaking business is getting the water right now. We're trying to move to virtual. But I got canceled on every speaking engagement for this year. We have events, we

can't hold them in New York City. Are people from westchestern Fearfield in New Jersey You're telling us they don't want to go go into New York. And you know then a lot of my clients are afraid the businesses aren't gonna exist. So I ended up falling into this ppe market just because I have huge connections and we are selling millions of boxes of gloves and masks and downs and the amount of money people are spending on this stuff.

People have no idea. I mean, if you have a factory and you have a bunch of workers, they go off from they break, they take the mask off, they take their gloves off, they need new when they again. If you're dealing with people, you have to change those masks on a regular basis. And even if you're only paying thirty cents for the mask, you have two employees times for us today, it just adds up absolutely well.

It's always interesting to catch up with you and get your perspective because we know you are both an investment guru and an entrepreneur. So Cathie Boyle really get to catch up with you. Best of luck, hope to catch up with you in the not too distant future. President, founder of Chapin Hill Advisors, joining us on the phone

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