Businessweek Extra- Melissa Korn

in depth interview you will not hear anywhere else. And this one we were so looking forward to because it's like a year year and a half ago that we were all talking about the Varsity Blue scandal, because that's when it broke in March of last year, and there's a new book out about it, and we were thrilled to have with us Melissa Corn she's a writer at the Wall Street Journal. She co wrote this book, Carol, with Jennifer Levitt's and it's called Unacceptable Privilege, Deceit and

the Making of the College Admission Scandal. Check it out. This was just such a wild story took for the Journal and show the book and my colleague and co author Jennifer Levice and I we were really blown away

by so many things. Honestly, the scope, the breath, the sophistication of this scheme that the mastermind Rick Singer put together, but also what it says about our society and parents obsession with prestige and brand name schools, and it was often really the parents more so than their teens who were striving for these particular institutions, and they were the

ones driving driving the whole process. So Melissa take us back, because this was something as Carol just alluded to, that landed and all of us across the journalistic world, the parental world, especially Carol and I both have juniors in high school, so we pay very close attention to all of these things, as many do. Remind us what Operation

Varsity Blues Laid bare. Yes, So in March of twenty nineteen, which does seem like forever ago harkens back to a simpler time, UH showed that there was this college admissions counselor, Rick Singer, who had managed to find and exploit a few real weaknesses in the selective college admissions process, both in terms of standardized tests where he had paid off test site administrators and a proctor UH to fudge and cheat, fudge scores and cheat and improve the results for a

number of clients. UH. He also found weaknesses in athletic recruiting and these special slots that are given to recruited athletes in the admissions process, and he arranged to bribe a number of college coaches and uh others who flag individuals as recruited athletes even when they didn't play a sport, and there was nobody checked. That was one of the big things that was really made clear here was that

nobody was checking them a half. Nobody was testing, you know, auditing these applications in any way, because nobody ever thought that a coach would choose somebody who wasn't going to actually help the team, but if the price tag was

high enough, clearly they did. It's amazing, Melissa, because I think you know, we've all understood I think safe to say that there's understandings that there are legacies and families that have been at schools and you know, you donations, You know that things happened, But this was just on a whole other level, right. So we have a whole chapter in the book called the Gray Area, which gets at the legacies, donations, those v I P lists of applicants,

and I think everybody knows that that goes on. This is kind of at the far end of the spectrum and obviously a little bit too far that in illegal territory, but it really does highlight some of the existing inequities in the system, and I think it is a good reminder that even those people who aren't doing things like that, or even people who aren't legacies or donating hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, many of them have an

edge too. If you're hiring a private essay t tutor or essay coach, or sending your kid to a regional club soccer team that costs ten thousand dollars a year, those are not experiences that every student has. So, Melissa, one of the amazing things about this book, because this is of course the scandal that has been written about and talked about, is you and your co author got some amazing access. You've got to people that basically no

one else has gotten to tell us about that. Yeah, we were really fortunate in being able to speak to a lot of the principal players in this whole story, and I think a part of it was we made clear that they were going to be in the book whether they wanted to or not, and they could help make sure that it was accurate or try to hide

from it, and a lot decided it was better to engage. So, you know, we we can't say who exactly we spoke with, and we make really clear that don't assume that just because there's a scene from one person's point of view, that that was the person that we got the information from.

Of course, as we protect our sources, but we really did try to get inside their heads and explain a little bit about why they engaged a singer, why singer was the way he was, why the prosecutors took the approach they did, because I think there's nobody is it's really hard for any individual to be painted, you know, black and white, good guy, bad guy here because even the parents who committed felonies ultimately worked in some twisted way trying to help their kids. And me, that's relatable.

What I read a little excerpt, I think it was in people um online, and you talk about one Devin Sloan who asked his son to pose for photos in the family pool wearing full water polo gear and didn't really give him a reason why, and the sun did it even though he didn't play the sport like. It's just amazing kind of some of the steps that parents went to and kept their kids in the dark. It really was. And I think you know with that, uh, excerpt in that that the anecdote with the son Matteo.

He was really thoughtful about the whole thing, and afterwards and said, you know, I was really mad at my dad, but then I kind of felt bad for him that he thought that he needed to do this to make me successful. Um. You know, this is a team who would have been just fine on his own, and he would have landed at a perfectly good school. Um without that extra all of the extra bells and whistles and

costumes and poaching and things like that. And his dad was sentenced to four months in prison, but he got to stay at the school. Correct, Right, He's one of the students who was not kicked out. Every university, every college did it, did their reviews a little bit differently. Um, Some expelled or rescinded the admission offers for students, others allowed the student to continue. It really was case by case at a lot of these places. Well, let's tell

us more about the parents in this case. And we're speaking with most of Corn reporter at the Wall Street Journal and co author of the new book Unacceptable Privileged Deceit and the Making of the College Admissions Scandal, tell us about the parents, because what you just said, I think resonated throughout this story. Uh that in many cases at least, this is I think how I read it. For the parents, This was as much about them as

it was about their kids. Absolutely, And we talked a lot about that culture that was really prevalent in some of these pockets of southern California and the Bay Area and New York and that your kids are a reflection of you. So if your kids are succeeding by certain kind of predetermined measures, you as a parent are therefore succeeding. And it's beyond you know, are they walking and talking

when they're supposed to? Is are they getting into this particular school because this particular school is one that you can boast about at a cocktail party. Well, that school that's perfectly good, but perhaps not as well known. You know, nobody wants to hear hear about that over orders. So these parents really did get very caught up in that and in this sense that my kid needs to succeed because of a way of showing that I am doing a good job as a parent. So what's happened as

a result of this? And I wonder in terms of admissions I mean, I feel like I have to say, I do remember when it broke in our Jason and Ireneo New York studio, and we're just like, you know, and especially because there are a lot of names beyond the celebrity names that we knew UM, whether in the financial community. But I do wonder if, like all colleges kind of went and it was like, okay, you know, like let's do you know, a deep dive to find out our process and make sure we're doing it the

right way. Like what's what's happened as a result of it, what's maybe gotten better at colleges and universities when it comes to the admissions process, if anything. Yea early on last spring and summer, there were these hints that there was going to be change and these moments of reflection and introspection and okay, yeah, maybe we should audit our application or if somebody gets in as a recruited athlete,

let's make sure they actually joined the team. And you know, a number of schools came out and said they would do that. California UM actually passed some legislation at the state level that schools needed to be more transparent about things like legacy admissions. But at the end of the day, there wasn't dramatic change. It's not like schools are saying no to donations that happened to come from families that are, um, you know, a couple of years off from college, and

I don't see that stopping. I also think that with the pandemic and a lot of schools really facing major budget crunches, it's really hard for them to look away from the dollar bills when when they're dangled right now, Yeah, I need the financial pressures mhm, exactly, some of those reforms maybe kind of put on the back burner for a little while. So most I want to go back briefly, we can't to something that that Carol mentioned, which is

the celebrity aspect of this. And you know, one of the elements I think that really pushed this into the public consciousness was that this wasn't just about rich bankers, a rich private with the executives who certainly were caught up in this. And as Carol alluded to, you know, folks well known to a Bluebird audience or a Wall Street Journal audience, but you know, maybe less out in

the public world. But we're talking about actresses, and most notably I think because she and her husband fought it for so long. Laurie Laughlin tell us about that part of the story because it's when you dig into in the book. We do, because it's the story of Larry Laughlin and her husband, Masam Giauli and their two daughters. Our hopes illustrate just kind of how the athletic recruiting

scheme worked very well. Um the two girls at various points posed on an ERG in their home gym, and the photos were sent to Rick Singer's team, and they ended up not being used in the final application. The one of his um deputies used a different different pictures, but it just showed how easy it was and how kind of murky some of the discussions were about exactly what was happening here. So we get into it in the book of what their defense was. You know, what

they say Singer told them was actually going on. And no, it's totally fine. You're giving financial support to the to the crew team. It's fine that they don't play that they're you know that they're not rollers or cox swins. This happens all the time, totally closer versus Yes, I am fully aware I am making a bribe so that my kids can get into school pretending to be an athlete and not being an athlete. Um, I mean yes.

So they pleaded guilty right around the time the book was going to the printer, So we tweaked a couple of things. Feel pass in there, kept us on our toes for all the very last minute. Yeah, it's kind of touch and go. It felt like, um, what was the most surprising thing in this process and all the reporting that you guys did and then eventually putting it

into this book. So I think, um, you guys alluded to this a little bit before, but that there is something a little bit relatable for somebody with some of these families. Some of these parents right on My parents two and my daughter's much younger. But you want what's best for your kid, and obviously their approach is here,

we're quite misguided. But you can kind of see that, you can feel that, you can you can relate to that that they in some guests, a lot of this is about their own ego, but they also did try to help their kid, and you also would try to help your kids. Might not go this far, but I think, um that the fact that some of these parents I could see myself and some of them, but that surprised me personally. It is also very interesting dynamic to explore

in the book. Well don't you feel, specially because you're based in New York right because you're here at the Journal, you know, New York Metro, Like it's just a whole other world and everybody is so aware of where people work, where they live, where they vacation, where their kids go to school, Like it's it's unfortunately, that's this world. It is, it is, and it's it's one that I'm kind of

at the early stages of with my own kid. But you know, people were joking about greasing the palms of a parent coordinator to get your kids off the pre k waitlist. Um, and I don't know how much they were really joking or serious people have Yeah, well, and to that point, Melissa, it's it's interesting because you know, you talked about how well we'll sort of see and and maybe we're all a little bit cynical given what we've seen or not seen from the higher ed perspective.

Do you think and do you sense that behavior has markedly changed on the part of parents. Are they just more careful about, you know, the parts of the gray area that they're operating in. Yeah, I don't see them

completely turning away from the gray area. I remember talking to one person um when reporting the book, who said, you know, from Orange County, California, very very well, so you very well connected, and saying, you know, my kids heading down in the down down this task going through the process next year, and we were going to hire a private counselor, but now I'm afraid to just because of the uh, the connotations and these siations of oh, use someone private, you know, did you what kind of

person did you use? I think there's some more skepticism or cynicism, and not always lawranted, because most do follow the rules and everything, but I think people are going to be a little more cautious who they let play

around and tinker with the application. Right, And what a wacky year I'm thinking about just right now between the virus and I know we're looking at both Jason and I have rising seniors, and it's just you know, you're doing the process virtually, but then also the backdrop of you know, this scandal and just I don't know, you know, the tone that it kind of puts on this whole process. I have to ask you remind us what happened to Rick Singer. He's in jail, right, he is not, He

is awaiting sentencing. He out he is actually taking some class has been taking some classes to try to finish up his PhD that he started almost twenty years ago, or about twenty years ago. The story just gets more interesting, right I know. Um, yeah, he's out about and his sentencing won't come likely until after some of the trials which will go into next year. And what is the defense ultimately for those Because there there's fewer and fewer people, um.

And you mentioned Laurie Laughlin pleading guilty and her husband. Um. But there are still some people out there, Bill mcglashin, I believe, notably former TPG partner at the Rise Fund and TPG growth. He is continuing to fight on what

ultimately is their defense. Right. So, yeah, there are a number that are still um proceeding and have created guilty and are maintaining their innocence, and they're mostly saying, you know, Rick Singer misled them, that he was very selective and what information he shared and while he might have done these bad he didn't necessarily explain it to them that way. Uh,

So that's a big, big part of it. They've already exhausted a number of efforts to get the charges dismissed because of venue, or trying to sever the cases, saying we shouldn't all be tried together. We weren't part of a single conspiracy. The judge has dismissed all of the or has kind of shot all those down and said no, this is going forward. So um, there is exhausted most of those options, and you know, maybe we'll see some

more played. We don't know, uh, whether parents or coaches, but they're essentially saying, you know, this is Singer's thing. We were just parents here kind of going along for the ride, not realizing exactly what was happening around us. Yeah, hard to write the book. It was chaotic, hectic fifteen months, last the nights and weekend because Jennifer and I were

both doing our day job at the journal as well. Yeah. Right, as a story continued to evolve, right, because it's not over, as you said, right, I was just you know, there's another parent being sentenced next week, and the former CEO of a publicly traded company and Uh, Lara Laughlin and Massamuli are scheduled till later this summer. So yeah, this

is far from over. So Melissa, I do want to ask you, maybe you know one more question is that then hadn't been some high profile people involved, I wonder how we would have looked at it, Like if it was a lant of names, were like, I don't know who these people are, you know what you mean? Versus actresses and big name Wall Street folks. Um, would it

would we be talking about it as much? Probably not? Um. I think people know that college admissions are not quite as pure and meritocratic as we'd all hope they are. But it really does take something quite so shocking, quite so big, quite so high profile, to really get people talking about what where the fault lines are and how they could perhaps be short up. You know, if it was I think Bloomberg in Wall Street Journal would have been talking about some of it, uh, with some of

these names. Um. But yeah, I don't know that it would have captured the public, the international audience the way it has. You know, when he's got tabloid reporters sitting in the courtroom in Boston to cover this. If it hadn't been for a couple of those names. In particular, that was most of corn who allow with Jennifer Levitt's of the Wall Street Journal, they wrote the book that

just came out this week. The book is entitled Unacceptable, Privileged to Sit and the Making of the College Admission Scandal. And Jason great to catch up with her. You know, she said, you know, right off the top, she was dumbfounded and blown away by the scope of this, the breath and sophistication of the scheme, but also about what

some parents would go to to get their kids into school. Yeah, and I think it's a story that's much bigger than these families, in so far as it says a lot about our society, what we value, how we interact with our kids, how we interact with institutions, how institutions interact with us, the role that money plays. I mean, there's so much. There's a text, there's a subtext in all of this, And I really enjoyed that conversation. Wide ranging, to say the least. Well, she said it was as

much about the parents as it was about the kids. Totally. I think more so, I would argue more so, all right, you've been listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra Stitude to Bloomberg Business Week Radio live Monday through Friday at two bim Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio. Have a great weekend at Tral Masser and I'm Jason Kelly. This is Bloodburn m